Odyssey 2 to 2600 conversions

[doug0909]

Just wondering... why hasn't anyone remade the O2 classics, such as KC Munchkin, KC's Crazy Chase, Pick Axe Pete, Killer Bees, Smithereens.... for the 2600? And the 2 player breakout game blockout with paddles would be great too... It should be easier to remake up to the 2600 from the O2 than down from more advanced systems... and some of those games are very fun...

[killersquirel]

I concur!

 

-mike

[doug0909]

One idea I had was KC Munchkin with larger mazes and powerups. In terms of powerups, perhaps pills to freeze the dots, a magnet which draws the dots to KC, a power up which freezes the ghosts or sends them back to the pen..... It's incredible that the game has never been ported or remade for the PC.... And Killer Bees with mouse or trackball control (5200 version???) would be great too....

[Vic George 2K3]

KC Munchkin and KC's Krazy Chase had some good ideas, but I think the "one life per game" idea was a bad idea that ruined what potential they had. Same thing with UFO, although I think that game would have better also with dual joystick control like in Robotron 2084.

 

I personally would like to see either game ported over to the 2600, but I do wonder how a programmer would deal with things like the moving dots without having so much flicker going on with the Munchers and all.

[Feralstorm]

Guess my KC-Munchin inspired hack of Pac-Man doesn't really count.

[Jess Ragan]

Someone ported the unreleased Ody2 prototype Robot City to the 2600. Does that count?

 

JR

[doug0909]

Very cute, but it's still not a game with KC's gameplay, esp. the moving dots.... And a 2600 version of KC Munchkin would also be interesting because the awful 2600 Pacman was what prompted the lawsuit against the game in the first place... Perhaps there could be a 2600 version of Turtles too; the O2 port is excellent and there aren't too many moving sprites at once....

[doug0909]

You should really try Pick Axe Pete, Killer Bees, the Turtles Port, UFO, Attack of the Timelord, and the great Attack of the Timelord Hack with multiple lives and PG-13 language, JG Munchkin... the berzerk-type homebrew Amok is ok too, and the prototype Robot City is playable (and more fun than the 2600 port, so far)... Demon Attack (only 2 demons) doesn't come close to the kick ass 2600 version, but Atlantis may actually be better - you get smart bombs... Qbert rocks, very fast play and even intermission screens.... and if you are playing with a friend, try Smithereens or Quest for the Rings, or Golf or baseball...

 

Some O2 games are pretty strange, and of course they all feature low res graphics and lame sound (except voice enhanced games), but with time many can be quite addictive. I think the smooth animation and flicker free graphics help; the O2 beat the 2600 and the Intellivision in animation speed and flicker freeness (is there a better word?).

 

One other note - what may be the two finest games ever made for the O2 are not yet on the multicart (though they may be soon). The homebrew kill the attacking aliens is FANTASTIC - it would be a good candidate for the first ever homebrew port to the 2600. And the O2 prototype of Tutankham is completely playable and far superior to the flickery 2600 version.... Also not yet on the multicart is a homebrew version of Pong with a few variations and a simple but very playable moon lander game called planet lander... They are available at the following address, I don't know if they are going on the next multicart .... http://www.packratvg.com/hbrews.htm

[Brad2600]

Speaking of Pick Axe Pete, did you get around to playing it?

 

 

I'll be looking for a boxed copy someday. Would be nice to find extra space to get more boxed 02 games.

[doug0909]

Alright, I guess there's a consensus on KC, but I'm no programmer. So here's the big question for someone who knows what the heck he is talking about....

 

Would it be posssible to do a port of KC Munchkin with the 17 moving onscreen objects (12 dots [4 of which are flashing], 3 ghosts, KC, and the rotating pen) without horrible flicker? And if the answer is yes, can KC still be updated with a larger, more interesting maze and power ups?

[doug0909]

And one more thought - if the answer is that this cannot be done on the 2600 without flicker from hell... why not the 5200? Or better yet, the 7800 (considering that 1. the 7800 desparately needs homebrews and 2. obviously a digital controller would be better)

[vdub_bobby]

Alright, I guess there's a consensus on KC, but I'm no programmer.  So here's the big question for someone who knows what the heck he is talking about....

 

Would it be posssible to do a port of KC Munchkin with the 17 moving onscreen objects (12 dots [4 of which are flashing], 3 ghosts, KC, and the rotating pen) without horrible flicker?  And if the answer is yes, can KC still be updated with a larger, more interesting maze and power ups?

I'd never played KC Munchkin before just now...kinda interesting.

 

You could probably do the rotating pen with the PF, and since the 6 upper dots never go into the lower half of the screen (right?) and vice versa, that means you have 6 dots (2 flashing), three ghosts, and KC on any given scanline = 6 dots + 4 sprites.

The 2600 has 2 players and 3 missiles/ball.

So minimum you have 30 Hz flicker on KC and the ghosts and I guess 30 Hz flicker on the dots.

With a 2LK you could probably draw all 5 objects and an asymmetrical playfield every line...maybe.

Hmmm...

20 cycles for dots (6 each for 2 missiles and 1 ball + 2 to reset stack pointer)

30 cycles for players (15 each)

Read asymm PF from ROM...I guess. Or RAM? Might be complicated.

Say from ROM for now:

96 cycles for asym PF (8 cycles per read/write (lda (),Y sta PFx) * 6 writes per line * 2 lines in a 2LK)

5 for loop maintenance (dey bne) - more if reading PF data from RAM.

 

= 151 cycles. We have 152 to work with over 2 lines.

 

Just fits!

 

All the sprites being single-color makes things easier; you can set all colors off-screen.

 

Course, you could reflect the PF and just use PF1 and PF2; that cuts you down to 64 cycles for PF read/writes.

 

Constant 30 Hz flicker is tolerable; with a smart antiflicker routine you could probably reduce that a bunch.

[doug0909]

I have no idea what the heck you said : )

 

but:

1) thank you very much

and

2) I hope someone with the time to code the game reads this.... I'm off...

[vdub_bobby]

I have no idea what the heck you said : )

 

but:

1) thank you very much

and

2) I hope someone with the time to code the game reads this....  I'm off...

Heh...I just reread my post and realized that it is pretty incomprehensible unless you are familiar with programming the 2600.

 

Basically, the gist: it would be entirely possible to get KC Munchkin on a 2600 with everything flickering at 30 Hz; i.e., every other frame.

 

This is assuming that there are never more than 6 dots on a given TV scanline - is this true?

 

And with a smart anti-flicker routine you could reduce that flicker a bunch.

[doug0909]

I don't have my emulator in front of me now, but I thought dots did traverse from top to bottom... more than six dots in any scanline sounds unlikely though... but you know, I thik it's more important that (for the first time ever) another system gets treated to a moving dots pacman game than that KC get cloned meticulously....

[doug0909]

I just checked the emulator (which tends to be pretty accurate). Dots do traverse from the lower to upper part of the screen and vice versa...

[supercat]

You should really try ...Killer Bees ... UFO

 

Killer Bees and UFO are both great games. It's a little discouraging that UFO reuses the shield and shots for explosions, meaning that following an overly-successful chain reaction one may be a sitting duck for awhile, but otherwise it's a great game. And it's been ages since I've had my hands on Killer Bees, but that was a truly amazing game. Too bad neither UFO nor Killer Bees seem like plausible games for a 2600 except maybe using the Supercharger hires flicker hack.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

I think they both would translate almost 1:1.

 

The objects in Ufo are very small for example, so there'd be almost no flicker.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[doug0909]

I'm not sure I agree; I still think killer bees would work best with analog control; i.e. a PC Remake or a 5200 version that made use of that great trackball...

 

And as for UFO, I also think it would work best with analog control . If it is with digital control, I agree with the post above that it would be great with dual joysticks; one for movement and one for directional fire. Though I guess that could be done on the 2600...

 

One of the great things about UFO was that each enemy killed sent off 3 pieces of debris (two diagonal up, one down). With the proper timing, you could make a huge chain reaction, which, in addition to giving you this warm fuzzy feeling inside, racked up your score. Here are some ideason how to play with the debris concept: game variations where the debris is different (an easy game where 8 pieces of debris scatter in all directions, or a harder version where there are just 2 pieces of debris, one left or one right). Or better yet... different types of debris for different types of objects destroyed...

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

...I still think killer bees would work best with analog control...

...And as for UFO, I also think it would work best with analog control...

869746[/snapback]

 

Why do you think that those games would work better with analog controls?

 

Just in case: The crappy O2 joysticks are digital, they just have very long ways along their axxis, which is why they react so slow compared to 2600 joysticks.

 

2600 games generally have more precise controls because of that compared to their Odyssey 2 counterparts, that's all...

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

If you're talking about CX40 joysticks, they're just as bad as the O2 ones for a left handed player like me. The Only Atari joysticks I use are the excellent CX24

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Tempest]

I'd like to see Flashpoint ported to the 2600. That is an O2 (well ok, O3 game) with promise.

 

Tempest

[doug0909]

Were you able to get flashpoint playable on the emulator? I couldn't .... It looks like quite a technical achievement, though I'm not sure how the gameplay is going to top Robotron...

 

But there is one awesome O3/G7400 game which is fully playable on the O2EM emulator, and would be doable on any system. It is called Norseman, and it is a rather unique strategy game on a grid of hexagons (a six-direction game (not four or eight), actually). Basically you are a "Viking" with a sword, and you protect a "Helmet" or two at the bottom of the screen from monsters (Giants, Dragons, Skeletons, etc.). You have to jump on the hexagons occupied by the moving monsters before they jump on you. When you kill them (by jumping on them first) their corpses becomes barriers, which you can creatively place to protect the Helmet at the bottom of the screen, or if you make a funnel, you can trap and kill the monsters. It's really quite creative...

 

As long as we are talking about strange games in the Odyssey universe, there are two strange foreign O2 games which are quite playable and may port well. Both can be tried on the emulator. One is called Super Bee, and involves a bee which eats a variety of fruits (don't ask me) and after each fruit is eaten, a barrier (which kills you if you touch it) forms on the screen. So the more you eat, the harder the game gets. There's also something with a spider who both grabs your dead bee to reset the game and holds goodies underneath him you can grab. But warning: I think the collision codes are a bit messed in the emulator.

 

The second strange but fun foreign game is called shark hunter. Graphically, it's quite nice. You shoot sharks with a harpoon, and the sharks enter through a net. They eat away at the net, but you can dive in the water and rebuild it..... Quite challenging actually...

[kirin jensen]

You know, although, this is an older thread, I feel compelled to comment.

 

You seriously underestimate the Odyssey2.

 

Unlike the 2600, you can have objects moving in all directions - something the 2600 just doesn't like to do, thus the many games with limited movement of an up/down or left/right vein. This especially obvious at later levels of Pick Axe Pete!, but also notable in UFO! and Killer Bees!

 

Even a reasonably authentric version of Freedom Fighters! would be taxing to the 2600.

[Cybergoth]

Even a reasonably authentric version of Freedom Fighters! would be taxing to the 2600.

 

Now, who'd seriously want a 2600 port of Freedom Fighters?!