COULD Jag have competed with the Playstation Graphically?

[phonedork]

The N64 was the first true 64-bit game system released. Yes, the Atari Jaguar was in stores well before the N64. However, it used a 16-bit CPU, a separate 32-bit RISC processor, and a 16-bit DSP to handle the system's processing chores. While 16+32+16 does add up to 64, those three processors combined do not add up to the power available in a single, true 64-bit model like that used in the N64.

 

 

You want proof the Jag is not 64 but!

 

I just uploaded scans with proof, and proof has been shown many times by Jaguar developers that it's true 64-bit. You are right the Jag is not 64 but

 

This is the same old disinformation that has been passed around for years and you're just another gullible believer, probably becuase it's what you WANT to here. Take a look of the Jaguar article scans I just put up with a block diagram that proves it's true 64-bit, but just to clarify here, the 16-bit 68000 is NOT the processor, but a co-processor. Though it IS true that many games wrongly use it as the main CPU, but it can be cut out of the equation for all intents and purposes, the Jaguar could have totally done without it, and probably would have been better off if Atari had, so lazy developers wouldn't use it as the main CPU. The Jaguar has 5 (THAT's FIVE) processors in 3 chips: The 64-bit Blitter, the 64-bit object processor, the 32-bit GPU, the 32-bit DSP and the 16-bit 68000 co-processor. It has a true 64-bit bus and true 64-bit memory too. Not even the N64 has all 64-bit processors throughout, it's a mix of 32/64-bit processors TOO. The Jaguar is indeed the first REAL 64-bit processor, regardless if it ever used all that power, it's there. If you really wanted to know the truth you'd ask&listen to the ACTUAL Jaguar programmers with YEARS of experience that hang out right here and on other Jag sites like JS2. They've programmed it, they know. It is definately NOT just adding up 16&32-bit processors; this is the lame, biased ignorance that was spewed out by the competition and biased magazine from the beginning becuase they WERE the competition or payed-off by the competition.

 

Dude.... the wilkepdia has it right on the money. I have seen 3 different specs on the jaguar. If you will see I did my research on wilkepidia. The 64 bit is NOT a processor! You think wilkepdia will post the inocrrect information?

[Gunstar]

The N64 was the first true 64-bit game system released. Yes, the Atari Jaguar was in stores well before the N64. However, it used a 16-bit CPU, a separate 32-bit RISC processor, and a 16-bit DSP to handle the system's processing chores. While 16+32+16 does add up to 64, those three processors combined do not add up to the power available in a single, true 64-bit model like that used in the N64.

 

 

You want proof the Jag is not 64 but!

 

I just uploaded scans with proof, and proof has been shown many times by Jaguar developers that it's true 64-bit. You are right the Jag is not 64 but

 

This is the same old disinformation that has been passed around for years and you're just another gullible believer, probably becuase it's what you WANT to here. Take a look of the Jaguar article scans I just put up with a block diagram that proves it's true 64-bit, but just to clarify here, the 16-bit 68000 is NOT the processor, but a co-processor. Though it IS true that many games wrongly use it as the main CPU, but it can be cut out of the equation for all intents and purposes, the Jaguar could have totally done without it, and probably would have been better off if Atari had, so lazy developers wouldn't use it as the main CPU. The Jaguar has 5 (THAT's FIVE) processors in 3 chips: The 64-bit Blitter, the 64-bit object processor, the 32-bit GPU, the 32-bit DSP and the 16-bit 68000 co-processor. It has a true 64-bit bus and true 64-bit memory too. Not even the N64 has all 64-bit processors throughout, it's a mix of 32/64-bit processors TOO. The Jaguar is indeed the first REAL 64-bit processor, regardless if it ever used all that power, it's there. If you really wanted to know the truth you'd ask&listen to the ACTUAL Jaguar programmers with YEARS of experience that hang out right here and on other Jag sites like JS2. They've programmed it, they know. It is definately NOT just adding up 16&32-bit processors; this is the lame, biased ignorance that was spewed out by the competition and biased magazine from the beginning becuase they WERE the competition or payed-off by the competition.

 

Dude.... the wilkepdia has it right on the money. I have seen 3 different specs on the jaguar. If you will see I did my research on wilkepidia. The 64 bit is NOT a processor! You think wilkepdia will post the inocrrect information?

 

The 64-bit WHAT is not a processor? You're a moron and a troll. It's a well known fact that Wikipedia is a pit of disinformation and is completely unreliable, even the site ADMINISTRATORS have openly admitted this in prime-time interviews and say they are attempting to make changes to fix the HUGE problem of disinformation, mostly posted by morons like you that don't have a clue, but think they do.

[phonedork]

The N64 was the first true 64-bit game system released. Yes, the Atari Jaguar was in stores well before the N64. However, it used a 16-bit CPU, a separate 32-bit RISC processor, and a 16-bit DSP to handle the system's processing chores. While 16+32+16 does add up to 64, those three processors combined do not add up to the power available in a single, true 64-bit model like that used in the N64.

 

 

You want proof the Jag is not 64 but!

 

I just uploaded scans with proof, and proof has been shown many times by Jaguar developers that it's true 64-bit. You are right the Jag is not 64 but

 

This is the same old disinformation that has been passed around for years and you're just another gullible believer, probably becuase it's what you WANT to here. Take a look of the Jaguar article scans I just put up with a block diagram that proves it's true 64-bit, but just to clarify here, the 16-bit 68000 is NOT the processor, but a co-processor. Though it IS true that many games wrongly use it as the main CPU, but it can be cut out of the equation for all intents and purposes, the Jaguar could have totally done without it, and probably would have been better off if Atari had, so lazy developers wouldn't use it as the main CPU. The Jaguar has 5 (THAT's FIVE) processors in 3 chips: The 64-bit Blitter, the 64-bit object processor, the 32-bit GPU, the 32-bit DSP and the 16-bit 68000 co-processor. It has a true 64-bit bus and true 64-bit memory too. Not even the N64 has all 64-bit processors throughout, it's a mix of 32/64-bit processors TOO. The Jaguar is indeed the first REAL 64-bit processor, regardless if it ever used all that power, it's there. If you really wanted to know the truth you'd ask&listen to the ACTUAL Jaguar programmers with YEARS of experience that hang out right here and on other Jag sites like JS2. They've programmed it, they know. It is definately NOT just adding up 16&32-bit processors; this is the lame, biased ignorance that was spewed out by the competition and biased magazine from the beginning becuase they WERE the competition or payed-off by the competition.

 

Dude.... the wilkepdia has it right on the money. I have seen 3 different specs on the jaguar. If you will see I did my research on wilkepidia. The 64 bit is NOT a processor! You think wilkepdia will post the inocrrect information?

 

The 64-bit WHAT is not a processor? You're a moron and a troll. It's a well known fact that Wikipedia is a pit of disinformation and is completely unreliable, even the site ADMINISTRATORS have openly admitted this in prime-time interviews and say they are attempting to make changes to fix the HUGE problem of disinformation, mostly posted by morons like you that don't have a clue, but think they do.

 

 

DRAM controller, 64-bit memory management (not a processor) look it up! I will trust the wilkepidia before I trust some Jagfan buster A$$! Like I said, I have seen 3 different specs that are not even the same! Do you guys just make stuff up? That info was obtained from the Jaguar Software Reference manual. Now I normally dont zero in on somebody and call them names. But you have crossed that first! I am simply debating the fact that the Jag is not more powerful then the PSX, the Jag is not better in 2D then the Sega Saturn, and the Jag does not use a 64 bit processor, but rather uses it for memory management. Now put your money where your mouth is son! Otherwise shut up!

[JagChris]

The N64 was the first true 64-bit game system released. Yes, the Atari Jaguar was in stores well before the N64. However, it used a 16-bit CPU, a separate 32-bit RISC processor, and a 16-bit DSP to handle the system's processing chores. While 16+32+16 does add up to 64, those three processors combined do not add up to the power available in a single, true 64-bit model like that used in the N64.

 

 

You want proof the Jag is not 64 but!

 

I just uploaded scans with proof, and proof has been shown many times by Jaguar developers that it's true 64-bit. You are right the Jag is not 64 but

 

This is the same old disinformation that has been passed around for years and you're just another gullible believer, probably becuase it's what you WANT to here. Take a look of the Jaguar article scans I just put up with a block diagram that proves it's true 64-bit, but just to clarify here, the 16-bit 68000 is NOT the processor, but a co-processor. Though it IS true that many games wrongly use it as the main CPU, but it can be cut out of the equation for all intents and purposes, the Jaguar could have totally done without it, and probably would have been better off if Atari had, so lazy developers wouldn't use it as the main CPU. The Jaguar has 5 (THAT's FIVE) processors in 3 chips: The 64-bit Blitter, the 64-bit object processor, the 32-bit GPU, the 32-bit DSP and the 16-bit 68000 co-processor. It has a true 64-bit bus and true 64-bit memory too. Not even the N64 has all 64-bit processors throughout, it's a mix of 32/64-bit processors TOO. The Jaguar is indeed the first REAL 64-bit processor, regardless if it ever used all that power, it's there. If you really wanted to know the truth you'd ask&listen to the ACTUAL Jaguar programmers with YEARS of experience that hang out right here and on other Jag sites like JS2. They've programmed it, they know. It is definately NOT just adding up 16&32-bit processors; this is the lame, biased ignorance that was spewed out by the competition and biased magazine from the beginning becuase they WERE the competition or payed-off by the competition.

 

Dude.... the wilkepdia has it right on the money. I have seen 3 different specs on the jaguar. If you will see I did my research on wilkepidia. The 64 bit is NOT a processor! You think wilkepdia will post the inocrrect information?

 

The 64-bit WHAT is not a processor? You're a moron and a troll. It's a well known fact that Wikipedia is a pit of disinformation and is completely unreliable, even the site ADMINISTRATORS have openly admitted this in prime-time interviews and say they are attempting to make changes to fix the HUGE problem of disinformation, mostly posted by morons like you that don't have a clue, but think they do.

 

Gunny, ignore is your friend. This guy is a clown.

[phonedork]

Here is a true example of what happened when the Jag entered the video game wars! This is actually funny, but true!

 

 

 

http://screwattack.com/archive/AVGN/WiiSalute.html

[Doskias]

DRAM controller, 64-bit memory management (not a processor) look it up! I will trust the wilkepidia before I trust some Jagfan buster A$$! Like I said, I have seen 3 different specs that are not even the same! Do you guys just make stuff up? That info was obtained from the Jaguar Software Reference manual. Now I normally dont zero in on somebody and call them names. But you have crossed that first! I am simply debating the fact that the Jag is not more powerful then the PSX, the Jag is not better in 2D then the Sega Saturn, and the Jag does not use a 64 bit processor, but rather uses it for memory management. Now put your money where your mouth is son! Otherwise shut up!

 

Please explain in great detail how the Jaguar is not Phonedork. Please refrain from rhetoric meant to mask your technological schematic ignorance. Go reread the posts from Gorf concerning your declaritive statements that you believe to be fact.

[phonedork]

DRAM controller, 64-bit memory management (not a processor) look it up! I will trust the wilkepidia before I trust some Jagfan buster A$$! Like I said, I have seen 3 different specs that are not even the same! Do you guys just make stuff up? That info was obtained from the Jaguar Software Reference manual. Now I normally dont zero in on somebody and call them names. But you have crossed that first! I am simply debating the fact that the Jag is not more powerful then the PSX, the Jag is not better in 2D then the Sega Saturn, and the Jag does not use a 64 bit processor, but rather uses it for memory management. Now put your money where your mouth is son! Otherwise shut up!

 

Please explain in great detail how the Jaguar is not Phonedork. Please refrain from rhetoric meant to mask your technological schematic ignorance. Go reread the posts from Gorf concerning your declaritive statements that you believe to be fact.

 

Dude... this is not my information. I obtained it from the wilkepedia! Not from a jag site who declares the systems power more than it is. Just go to the wilkepidia site and look it up. This information was never hard to obtain! They also declare that the information was from the Jaguar Software Reference manual! Now what exactly do I need to learn from a Gorf forum? Is this the answer to Jaguar's power? Like I said earlier.... Lets hypothetically say the Jag was the most powerful system ever!!!!! No games = SUCK A$$!

 

Atari vs NES and SEGa

http://screwattack.com/archive/AVGN/WiiSalute.html

[ZylonBane]

You're a moron and a troll.

Then why do you keep feeding him? You can't change the mind of someone who doesn't even believe their own words. You do realize that, right? Just leave phonedork to stew all alone in his preadolescent douchebaggery.

[phonedork]

You're a moron and a troll.

Then why do you keep feeding him? You can't change the mind of someone who doesn't even believe their own words. You do realize that, right? Just leave phonedork to stew all alone in his preadolescent douchebaggery.

 

Ok Fagbot....What do you mean I dont believe my own words? I like to debate as well as be right. Quit putting words in my mouth as if ya figured me out. On any other video game forum you would be the TROLL for saying the Jag crap you guys have been saying! You guys are not safe here either! LOL! I have been sent to destroy unbelievers! Yuk yuk yuk!

 

 

 

This video is awsome!!!!!

http://screwattack.com/archive/AVGN/WiiSalute.html

[kevincal]

In the end, bits mean shit! It's about the games, and anyone who has played most of the Jag's library will tell you that the Jag has plenty of good games with good graphics. So all you Jag bashers that can only come up with the WAY OVERDONE bit argument... Leave us Jag fans alone and go blow yourself. This argument has been done to death 100 times too many.

 

Sorry to spoil the "fun".

[DracIsBack]

Here is your beloved 64bit system according to Wilkepedia!

 

LOL - it might surprise you to know that I'm not Jag-obsessed like you think. I actually don't think the Jaguar could compete graphically on the 3D front at all. 2D is different, but the problem isn't as simple as specs and processing power.

 

Also, rather than citing Wikipedia, which any SHMO can edit (and is often wrong, perpetually changed and subject to flame wars), feel free to have anyone who's coded the Jaguar to tell you what it can and what it can't do. There are lots of them here, and not all of them will kiss it's butt and call it ice cream.

[DracIsBack]

Rayman does not use that many colors on the screen at once! Maybe thats how many the Jag can process, but thats not how many is in Rayman!

 

Didn't know you personally counted the colors in all the levels ...?

 

Perhaps you also have the original artwork files from UBI Soft ...?

 

OK then - how many colors does it have on screen at once?

 

Do tell ...

[The Helper]

I could go on Wikipedia and edit that page to whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. It has recently been edited to remove the reference to the 64 bit object processor and blitter. Someone has raped the Wikipedia Jaguar entry once again and you are using it as evidence for your claims. The article will soon go under contention and revert back to the old way soon.

 

 

 

DRAM controller, 64-bit memory management (not a processor) look it up! I will trust the wilkepidia before I trust some Jagfan buster A$$! Like I said, I have seen 3 different specs that are not even the same! Do you guys just make stuff up? That info was obtained from the Jaguar Software Reference manual. Now I normally dont zero in on somebody and call them names. But you have crossed that first! I am simply debating the fact that the Jag is not more powerful then the PSX, the Jag is not better in 2D then the Sega Saturn, and the Jag does not use a 64 bit processor, but rather uses it for memory management. Now put your money where your mouth is son! Otherwise shut up!

 

Please explain in great detail how the Jaguar is not Phonedork. Please refrain from rhetoric meant to mask your technological schematic ignorance. Go reread the posts from Gorf concerning your declaritive statements that you believe to be fact.

 

Dude... this is not my information. I obtained it from the wilkepedia! Not from a jag site who declares the systems power more than it is. Just go to the wilkepidia site and look it up. This information was never hard to obtain! They also declare that the information was from the Jaguar Software Reference manual! Now what exactly do I need to learn from a Gorf forum? Is this the answer to Jaguar's power? Like I said earlier.... Lets hypothetically say the Jag was the most powerful system ever!!!!! No games = SUCK A$$!

 

Atari vs NES and SEGa

http://screwattack.com/archive/AVGN/WiiSalute.html

[Gunstar]

You're a moron and a troll.

Then why do you keep feeding him? You can't change the mind of someone who doesn't even believe their own words. You do realize that, right? Just leave phonedork to stew all alone in his preadolescent douchebaggery.

Becuase I do get a bit of satisfaction out of the argument, especially when I know the facts and can lay them out and see the completely illogical denial and squirming from someone like this...it just proves my point that the world is absolutely filled with half-wits that take anything the media says as gospel, while those of us with brains see right through the bias and fantasies of said media. Believe me, I'll get bored quickly and eventually block the person and move on.

Now someone like you, with a brain, I've had disagreements with before, but the difference is I can respect your opinion, even if I don't agree with it, and I don't get bored. Then there are times when we think alike, so it's all good.

[Gunstar]

You're a moron and a troll.

Then why do you keep feeding him? You can't change the mind of someone who doesn't even believe their own words. You do realize that, right? Just leave phonedork to stew all alone in his preadolescent douchebaggery.

 

Ok Fagbot....What do you mean I dont believe my own words? I like to debate as well as be right. Quit putting words in my mouth as if ya figured me out. On any other video game forum you would be the TROLL for saying the Jag crap you guys have been saying! You guys are not safe here either! LOL! I have been sent to destroy unbelievers! Yuk yuk yuk!

 

 

 

This video is awsome!!!!!

http://screwattack.com/archive/AVGN/WiiSalute.html

 

You just mindlessly ramble, don't you? What are we unbelievers of exactly? you're the one that's an unbeliever around here, yet you spend your time here anyway? Sent? So not only are you a moron, but you were SENT at anothers bidding so your a TOOL too?!? What a waste of life and air...wasting your own life, and wasting our air.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Gunstar

[downix]

The N64 was the first true 64-bit game system released. Yes, the Atari Jaguar was in stores well before the N64. However, it used a 16-bit CPU, a separate 32-bit RISC processor, and a 16-bit DSP to handle the system's processing chores. While 16+32+16 does add up to 64, those three processors combined do not add up to the power available in a single, true 64-bit model like that used in the N64.

 

 

You want proof the Jag is not 64 but!

 

That was almost completely incoherent.

 

 

 

 

 

And utterly ignorant.

 

He's been a troll in the 5200 forum, now the Jag forum. I imagine he'll be in the 7800 and Lynx forums soon ...

 

Quite ignorant, as the Nintento 64 is not a true 64-bit system either, and has a full 32-bit data bus system paired to a 64-bit CPU core. If he can classify the 68000 as 16-bit, then he'll have to classify the CPU of the N64 as 32-bit, as the concept was the same.

[Gorf]

Could a CoJag with the RAM, fixed UART and a 68k that wasn't choking the bus? Easily, as Area 51 and Maximum Force demonstrate. The Jaguar's chips are capable, more than.

Area 51 and Maximum Force are FMV games. Hardly a good demonstration of the COJAG hardware's capabilities.

 

 

I know you think they are FMV, and in a sense they could be called that but its hardly just spooling images in

one large frame to a buffer. Yes, the cojag is certainly more capable than what Area 51 does, but you wont

see a PSX do better in 2D...Its just not possible. You can get some impressive 2D on a PSX but a properly

coded Jaguar will bitch slap it hands down. I've seen the source to Area 51 and it a litle more than just

FMV. Without the blitter/OPL you could not do what the cojag is doing or even in the same universe on any

system before it, Arcade or otherwise.

[Gorf]

You guys are not safe here either! LOL! I have been sent to destroy unbelievers! Yuk yuk yuk!

 

 

No we are safe...it is you who walk the tight rope.

[BuddyBuddies]

Jaguar Rules!!

[downix]

Rayman does not use that many colors on the screen at once! Maybe thats how many the Jag can process, but thats not how many is in Rayman!

 

LOL - ok, whatever. There's obviously no reasoning with you ...

 

 

 

 

Here is your beloved 64bit system according to Wilkepedia! If you notice it has a 64 -bit memory management and also notice this is not a processor! I have seen sites where they show different specs, but this site pulls its info from the Jaguar Software Reference manual.

 

Tom" Chip, 26.59 MHz

Graphics processing unit (GPU) – 32-bit RISC architecture, 4 KB internal cache, provides wide array of graphic effects

Object Processor – RISC architecture; programmable; can behave as a variety of graphic architectures

Blitter – RISC architecture; high speed logic operations, z-buffering and Gouraud shading, and 32-bit internal registers.

 

DRAM controller, 64-bit memory management (not a processor) <------LOL!

"Jerry" Chip, 26.59 MHz

 

Digital Signal Processor – 32-bit RISC architecture, 8 KB internal cache

Same RISC core as the GPU, and not limited to sound production

CD-quality sound (16-bit stereo)

Number of sound channels limited by software

Two DACs (stereo) convert digital data to analog sound signals

Full stereo capabilities

Wavetable synthesis, FM synthesis, FM Sample synthesis, and AM synthesis

A clock control block, incorporating timers, and a UART

Joystick control

Motorola 68000 "used as a manager."[7]

General purpose control processor, 13.295 MHz

 

You might want to check again. I just looked at wikipedia, and it clearly states that the Blitter and Object Processor are both 64-bit units.

[Gorf]

Just go to the wilkepidia site and look it up. This information was never hard

to obtain! They also declare

 

 

Do you have even the foggiest clue what wiki is? I'll tell you since you obviously have

the first iota of understanding from your post it seems. It's people...ANYONE..that wants

to can go and write anything based on 'THEIR' knowledge. You still feel confident about

a place that has a collection of nobodies telling the experts what is or what isn't?

 

 

I thinkyou need to listen to those of use who actually code the machine and actually

know it better than atari after all these years. But if you want to continue to be a

decieved moron fine. Open up and Jaguar....Look at the 64 data lines comming out

of TOM traveling to a DRAM bank connected at 64 bits. Maybe you 'll see what an utter

fool you come across like.

[Gorf]

The N64 was the first true 64-bit game system released. Yes, the Atari Jaguar was in stores well before the N64. However, it used a 16-bit CPU, a separate 32-bit RISC processor, and a 16-bit DSP to handle the system's processing chores. While 16+32+16 does add up to 64, those three processors combined do not add up to the power available in a single, true 64-bit model like that used in the N64.

 

 

You want proof the Jag is not 64 but!

 

That was almost completely incoherent.

 

 

 

 

 

And utterly ignorant.

 

He's been a troll in the 5200 forum, now the Jag forum. I imagine he'll be in the 7800 and Lynx forums soon ...

 

Quite ignorant, as the Nintento 64 is not a true 64-bit system either, and has a full 32-bit data bus system paired to a 64-bit CPU core. If he can classify the 68000 as 16-bit, then he'll have to classify the CPU of the N64 as 32-bit, as the concept was the same.

 

 

 

Shhhh....your confusing him with reality.....he must be friends to some around here, clueless,

that swear the Jag is NOT 64 bits and the N64 is.

[Gorf]

You might want to check again. I just looked at wikipedia, and it clearly states that the Blitter and Object Processor are both 64-bit units.

 

 

But if you notice phone doink convieniently forgot to show those to VERY IMPORTANT

64 BIT PROCESSORS....which BTW are the VERY HEART and power of

the Jaguar and exactly the reason why it is validly a 64 bit SYTEM.

 

 

 

Oh and why is the DMA 64 bit? I cant wait to see him answer this one.

[Gorf]

I think that - although it was a very nice system, there really is no way that the jaguar would compete with the PSX..

As polygons get smaller, the overhead of blitter setup increases to the point where the gpu can be completely bogged down with drawing triangles - and although the DSP could handle transformations it would be way less powerfull than the GTE on the PSX.. and finally with the blitter running quite heavily, the main bus would end up pretty fully used, and the 68k would be starved ..

 

I'm not completely convinced by the claims of better quality texturing either - what is this based on? Is it the versions of doom?

 

The fact that the blitter and GPU together can do things on each raster of the poly,

where the hardwired GTE is what is it.

 

Let me give you a more realistic view of what is going on here. I know VHDL folks

that have been studying the nets for me of the Jaguar. They are suprised, that

the Jag did not totally crush the PSX. I had to pointed out to them to look at the system

as a whole. Why The Jag has such a hard time is the 68k.

 

It does not help when you use the 68k as a main processor and not simply the boot

manager as was intended. You can not expect to see efficient use of a 64 bit bus with

a half speed 1/4 bus with proccessor running rampant all over it. Will it put as many

polies as a PSX? No. But it will put up more feature rich polies. The GTE is hardwired

with some effects.

 

In order to add other effects not in hardware you lose the advantage and are doing the

same thing as the Jag's GPU and blitter. It's a trade off but Jagaur is certainly a stronger

2D machine than it is a 3D machine especially when you choke the bus with the 68k. That

processor should be off. It makes a great interrupt handler though. The GPU running in

main was...I repeat WAS another issue, but then we found out that it does work and is a

really amazingly simply fix and NO assistance from another processor.

 

The speed difference is significant. Very significant. The trick is a fast renderer loaded in the

4k cache of the GPU and all AI and game logic out in main. We are doing this now and it is

yeilding much more desire results shall we say. We are also using a very inefficient renderer

which is the sample renderer Atari supplied as a guide and did tell dev's to use it only as a

guide and that much more optimal code can and should be written. We optimized it somewhat

but a re-write is underway and we will greatly improve the through put of polygons.

 

YES phonedoink....using the 64 BIT Object PROCESSOR and 64 bit Blitter. The heart

and power of the Jaguar...not the risc's and the 68k. They do grunt work...the OPL and BLT

are what rock the house.

[Crazyace]

The fact that the blitter and GPU together can do things on each raster of the poly,

where the hardwired GTE is what is it.

 

The GTE is the 3D transform - it's pretty cool ( from memory effectively 7 or 8 cycles for a 3D transform and perspective projection of a single point )

I think the strongest part of the jaguar is the Z compare on the blitter - there's no equiv. on the PSX GPU

Anything else could be generated by textured line GPU commands

 

Let me give you a more realistic view of what is going on here. I know VHDL folks

that have been studying the nets for me of the Jaguar. They are suprised, that

the Jag did not totally crush the PSX. I had to pointed out to them to look at the system

as a whole. Why The Jag has such a hard time is the 68k.

 

If these people are surprised, then they probally haven't looked at the PSX much

 

It does not help when you use the 68k as a main processor and not simply the boot

manager as was intended. You can not expect to see efficient use of a 64 bit bus with

a half speed 1/4 bus with proccessor running rampant all over it. Will it put as many

polies as a PSX? No. But it will put up more feature rich polies. The GTE is hardwired

with some effects.

 

The biggest problem here is that I'm assuming that the 68k is turned off most of the time - and even then I dont think the jaguar will match the PSX.

The PSX GPU can draw textures at 33MPixels/second - and polys at 66MPixels max - and this will only saturate the vram bandwidth.

The main memory is completely free for the MIPS cpu.

On the jaguar drawing can completely saturate both the memory bandwidth, and the gpu cycles. Even if you run a draw system completely on a gpu interupt, so other code can run asynchronously on GPU ( from main memory ) - you are probally going to lose a great deal of time as general gpu code will have to fight for memory bandwidth.

 

In order to add other effects not in hardware you lose the advantage and are doing the

same thing as the Jag's GPU and blitter. It's a trade off but Jagaur is certainly a stronger

2D machine than it is a 3D machine especially when you choke the bus with the 68k. That

processor should be off. It makes a great interrupt handler though. The GPU running in

main was...I repeat WAS another issue, but then we found out that it does work and is a

really amazingly simply fix and NO assistance from another processor.

 

The speed difference is significant. Very significant. The trick is a fast renderer loaded in the

4k cache of the GPU and all AI and game logic out in main. We are doing this now and it is

yeilding much more desire results shall we say. We are also using a very inefficient renderer

which is the sample renderer Atari supplied as a guide and did tell dev's to use it only as a

guide and that much more optimal code can and should be written. We optimized it somewhat

but a re-write is underway and we will greatly improve the through put of polygons.

 

That's true - 2D really is the jaguar's strength, although it can have trouble matching some of the SNES features

( ie: trying to emulate a hardware charmap using the object processor was a real pain - especially when the SNES has 4 planes for free effectively )

 

Thinking about it - for performance I'd probally organise something like:

 

GPU:

local memory interupt, triangle rasterise + coord fetch...

main memory, run game logic / objects visibilty and other

 

 

DSP - interupt copy stereo buffer + read 3d polylist and transform/light and copy to GPU local memory

 

During vblank/end of drawing run both GPU and DSP in tight loop generating next frames audio buffer

 

For speedup, dsp could generate transformed triangle list and sort, to avoid per pixel Z overhead

 

( I'm going to have to dig out my old jaguar stuff - it's been over 12 years! but the temptation to buy a jag and swap the rom is high )