ovalbugmann Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I think it's as close to an even comparison as you can get. Nobody worked with the Jaguar hardware longer than 4-play did in creating Battlesphere. I don't think a larger budget would have yielded a better game. They tapped out the chipset, period. You make a good point, though I always have trouble with this where any first generation title is concerned. History has shown that experience brings titles that usually bust the doors off of what people expect a system to be able to do. Look at games like Solaris (Atari 2600); Gunstar Heroes (Genesis); Toy Story (Genesis); Donkey Country 1,2 and 3 (SNES) etc. Battlesphere, was their first Jaguar game, IIRC. It would be interesting to get their thoughts on what they could do, had they started a new game from scratch, having had the exerience of Battlesphere behind them. The Jaguar chipset is NOT tapped out, mos6507. Aside from it being Scatologic's first title, they have said there is significant room for improvement in the current BattleSphere code. As has already been seen once with the second gold release. Gorf has stated that they said they could improve quite a few things with a revision of the game or a new title, I forgot the percentage Gorf quoted of how much they feel the Jaguar chipset has been tapped, it's much less than 100% though. If they knew then what they know now(and had the time), they could have rewritten many BS aspects for further optimization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The Jaguar COULD have done alot of things that could have made its outcome different. I do think that the graphics are somewhat comparable, in some cases. The bottom line is that the Jaguar got very little support, limited dev support, and most of all, horrible marketing and support from Atari. The truth is by the 90s, Atari was the uncool kid on the block that was the red headed stepchild of consoles. Playstation had every major developer working for it. It has over 2000 games made for it. Honestly it is like comparing apples and oranges. Could it have? Yes probably Did it? Not Really The Jaguar is a funky system of Frankenstein parts. Like any failed system, I am sure it was destined to be a killer machine. In the end, though it was just a whimper of what it set out to do. I am glad there are some people left in this world who still are passionate about this console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 you didnt own a jag when it came out and its pointless to try and explain to someone ignorant that didn't own a jag when it came into the market. you will never understand the jag the way the people see the jag on here and it's pointless to try and explain (gorf!). Please...just zip it. You are just wasting your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 gorf, do us a favor and put your energies into something useful (seriously). How about you do me a favor and shut up...really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I don't think a larger budget would have yielded a better game. They tapped out the chipset, period. Perhaps you should go by what THEY, scatologic says. They said they did NOT max out the chipset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Give us time...I think we can imperss... How much time? What's your rush? As long as it takes. I haev a lot more things to do coding wise than the JAgur, which is a spare time thing. I 've not gone near it in over a year due to contract work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 gorf, do us a favor and put your energies into something useful (seriously). It seems quite useful to me as an academic exercise if nothing else. If you cannot go over a design and go "hey, this can be fixed by doing xyz" then you'll just repeat the same mistakes in the future, in my experience. Gorf's doing one better, and sharing this with other people so that, should the next great game console designer happen to be doing their homework, as should be done, they can read his words, and avoid Atari's pitfalls. phuzaxeman thinks he knows better than everyone about everything...his N64 is better, his digi tools studio is better and everything he chooses in life is better. He though he has no experience with the Jaguar other than playing the games, what us the deevlopers to take his word over our own experiences. It is personaly with him against me...for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 No developer ever 'maxes' out the system. There are always shortcuts taken, and things to balance.. If you claim Omega Boost was an experienced team compare it to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywwxp5-oJio This was a 'first time' game for a new team - and it ran at 60fps in hires/interlace mode ( I wont say anything about the quality of the game - but the engine was very good ) For me - I really like games like Super Burnout on the Jag - they seemed to play to the strengths.. I would have loved to have Outrun and PowerDrift converted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The Jaguar chipset is NOT tapped out, mos6507. Aside from it being Scatologic's first title, they have said there is significant room for improvement in the current BattleSphere code. And the art direction. And the sound effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downix Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 No developer ever 'maxes' out the system. There are always shortcuts taken, and things to balance.. If you claim Omega Boost was an experienced team compare it to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywwxp5-oJio This was a 'first time' game for a new team - and it ran at 60fps in hires/interlace mode ( I wont say anything about the quality of the game - but the engine was very good ) For me - I really like games like Super Burnout on the Jag - they seemed to play to the strengths.. I would have loved to have Outrun and PowerDrift converted Sony Computer Entertainment Soho was a new team when this came out? Soho, the guys founded in 1993, who released this game in 1998, a new team? 5 years, making software for the PSX, a new team, when this was released, already having 2 other titles under their belt such as NBA Shootout '97 and Porche Challenge before it shipped, a new team? I'm curious what your definition of "new" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 One team did NBA, and then Porsche Challenge, another team started on RapidRacer.. Not a new studio - but definitely a new team / new engine.. ( Hey I was wow'ed by Toshinden and Ridge Racer at the launch of PSX - especially the transparent torus stage ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 No developer ever 'maxes' out the system. There are always shortcuts taken, and things to balance.. If you claim Omega Boost was an experienced team compare it to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywwxp5-oJio This was a 'first time' game for a new team - and it ran at 60fps in hires/interlace mode ( I wont say anything about the quality of the game - but the engine was very good ) For me - I really like games like Super Burnout on the Jag - they seemed to play to the strengths.. I would have loved to have Outrun and PowerDrift converted Super Burnout is a great example of how to use the blitter and OPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusc Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Phonedork is awesome! He's like the Bizarro Buddybuddies. Got to be a joke account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 One team did NBA, and then Porsche Challenge, another team started on RapidRacer.. Not a new studio - but definitely a new team / new engine.. ( Hey I was wow'ed by Toshinden and Ridge Racer at the launch of PSX - especially the transparent torus stage ) Tools and money make a big difference too. Atari had very little of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) gorf, do us a favor and put your energies into something useful (seriously). It seems quite useful to me as an academic exercise if nothing else. If you cannot go over a design and go "hey, this can be fixed by doing xyz" then you'll just repeat the same mistakes in the future, in my experience. Gorf's doing one better, and sharing this with other people so that, should the next great game console designer happen to be doing their homework, as should be done, they can read his words, and avoid Atari's pitfalls. phuzaxeman thinks he knows better than everyone about everything...his N64 is better, his digi tools studio is better and everything he chooses in life is better. He though he has no experience with the Jaguar other than playing the games, what us the deevlopers to take his word over our own experiences. It is personaly with him against me...for whatever reason. i think i know better? how about looking in the mirror? you are the one that lays down the bible in this forum. how about releasing something already instead wasting time writing mile long debates? :-) Edited January 10, 2008 by phuzaxeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 gorf, do us a favor and put your energies into something useful (seriously). How about you do me a favor and shut up...really. whatever dude :-) how about another mile long pointless debate? yawn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Phonedork is awesome!He's like the Bizarro Buddybuddies. Got to be a joke account. Phonedork is nothing more than a P.O.S. troll & flames fanner who is obviously an illiterate Jag Basher that is smoking crack and needs his head cracked. Just look at his freak of nature picture...LOL A Joke account,.. yeah, your right there , but comparing him to buddies is absolutely wrong and a terrible comparison. Don't mistake Buddies passionate & vibrant enthusiasm for everything Jaguar to be anything like dorks' a$$ClowN cockyness. Dork's "nyuk, nyuk, nyuk", what is he? one of the three stooges? LOL! PSUX!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyBuddies Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 JAGUAR RULES! I like Jaguar kiosks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyBuddies Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 PURE JAG POWA !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 gorf, do us a favor and put your energies into something useful (seriously). How about you do me a favor and shut up...really. whatever dude :-) how about another mile long pointless debate? yawn... like your pointless posts? yawn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downix Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Any thoughts on where the Jag II would have fallen within this argument? Chewed up the PSX and N64 for lunch, and taken a big bite out of the Dreamcast. 2.5 million polys/sec goes a long way. Not till the PS/2 did game consoles supass it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i think i know better? how about looking in the mirror? you are the one that lays down the bible in this forum. how about releasing something already instead wasting time writing mile long debates? :-) I have experience to back it up..you have....um..screen shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyBuddies Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Any thoughts on where the Jag II would have fallen within this argument? Chewed up the PSX and N64 for lunch, and taken a big bite out of the Dreamcast. 2.5 million polys/sec goes a long way. Not till the PS/2 did game consoles supass it. thats right buddy!!! JagII Rules!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 i think i know better? how about looking in the mirror? you are the one that lays down the bible in this forum. how about releasing something already instead wasting time writing mile long debates? :-) I have experience to back it up..you have....um..screen shots... if you'd set your emotions aside and read what i was posting, i was backing you up in that you shouldnt be wasting your time (arguing with these trolls) on backing up the jag again and again and again about the potential of the jag system....we are all pretty much the same readers on here and you've made your points already. how many times do you need to repost the same recap of what the jag can do in all these different variations? the fact of the matter is you have spent so much time typing and typing away all these years (how many posts have u posted?) and yet in reality, you have no software to sell publicly? nothing to offer to the public. you haven't even done any official atari articles. to make matters worse, you had even cut other programmers down in the past. what good does that do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phonedork Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Phonedork is awesome!He's like the Bizarro Buddybuddies. Got to be a joke account. Phonedork is nothing more than a P.O.S. troll & flames fanner who is obviously an illiterate Jag Basher that is smoking crack and needs his head cracked. Just look at his freak of nature picture...LOL A Joke account,.. yeah, your right there , but comparing him to buddies is absolutely wrong and a terrible comparison. Don't mistake Buddies passionate & vibrant enthusiasm for everything Jaguar to be anything like dorks' a$$ClowN cockyness. Dork's "nyuk, nyuk, nyuk", what is he? one of the three stooges? LOL! PSUX!!! I like to see you try to crack my head buster! I would love the chance to embarass you physically! And Yes I am a freak of nature. I am 225 pounds and I wrestled for Ohio Sate! So kiss my A$$! Now I am sorry that you dont have any evidence of the Jaguar producing graphics in 2D or 3D that could make it supposedly destroy the PSX, N64, or Sega Saturn! But dont try to be a keyboard warrior and talk crap about me. I am making a point that is all. You guys claim the machine is the better, but........ I see nothing! Rayman looks better on sega Saturn in 2D and Astal on Sega Saturn blows Rayman out of the water. N64 and PSX would waist Jaguar on anything. Like I said, I maybe a Troll here to you little minded cretins, but to the rest of gaming world you guys would be trolls for saying this kind of crap. I represent that world! I am discussing the so called power of this Jaguar with you. I have read and listened but you guys have not convinced me. I am not moved to believe that the Jaguar could have competed with PSX. Not with the line of crap games on the jag! 4 games maybe are good on the machine. But thats it! Thats not enough to say nothing about any machine! Even the Atari 2600 has more better games! Games are what makes a game system good. If there are no games, it doesnt matter how good the system specs are! Rating the power of that Jaguar being more then the PSX is like saying the Intellivision is better then NES since the intellivision was the first 16 bit gaming console. Those specs meen nothing! Its what is produced, and the Jag produced nada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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