+Larry Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I have a nice, clean 65XE that uses the 130XE MB, complete with ECI. It is marked: "130XE (64X4) CIO3579-001 Rev.1" Does anyone have any info or even a picture of this type (NTSC) MB outfitted as a 130XE? Might be an interesting project to "upgrade" it. It is clearly missing 2 ea. 18-pin, 64X4 DRAM modules and missing the custom gate array U34 -- "Freddie?" All of my other XE's are the older 64X1 type, so I have nothing to compare this to. Nor have I been able to find any info on the web. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Whats the full serial number and where was it made? I've heard of these and I think there is a picture floating around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) I have a nice, clean 65XE that uses the 130XE MB, complete with ECI. It is marked: "130XE (64X4) CIO3579-001 Rev.1"Does anyone have any info or even a picture of this type (NTSC) MB outfitted as a 130XE? Might be an interesting project to "upgrade" it. It is clearly missing 2 ea. 18-pin, 64X4 DRAM modules and missing the custom gate array U34 -- "Freddie?" All of my other XE's are the older 64X1 type, so I have nothing to compare this to. Nor have I been able to find any info on the web. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -Larry I've got one of those 64X4 130XE's sitting around here somewhere. It may take a while, but I'll try to dig it out and take a picture of the MB. Edited June 23, 2007 by JR> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Whats the full serial number and where was it made? I've heard of these and I think there is a picture floating around. Hi- Unfortunately, I can't determine that since the MB is not in the original case. IIRC, it had a bad keyboard when I got it, so I swapped things around. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 I've got one of those 64X4 130XE's sitting around here somewhere. It may take a while, but I'll try to dig it out and take a picture of the MB. Hi JR- Thanks! That would be great. I'll take some pics of the 65XE MB and post them. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 I'm working on the pics -- my photographic skills are pretty weak. But I did notice one thing. In the empty spot where U34 would normally be, there are 3 connections made with "resistor-looking" devices that have only one black stripe as a marking. These are beige/almond-colored devices slightly larger than a 1/4-watt resistor but smaller than a 1/2-watt. Any idea what they might be? Measuring them (connected) with a meter shows continuity, essentially with no resistance. Some type of a component-style jumper? Looking at the missing components, virtually all missing items are not present on my other 130XE's. In the best scenario for this, I would plop in a couple of DRAMS and add U34, and I'd be in business. However, realistically, there are going to be a few more components missing... -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Pic here: http://www.fonck.nl/atari/images/XE_inside.jpg From http://www.fonck.nl/atari/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hello Larry What you describe as "looking like resistors" are zero-ohm resistors. Just desolder them and put a socket and a CO25953 inthere (available from Best and B&C for resp. 10 and 12,50 dollars). After that all you need to get 128kB of memory is to solder in two extra sockets and the extra RAMchips. I should know as I've done this on atleast one of my XE's, but probably on two. 65XE's (with ECI) and it's rebatched brother the 800XE (mainly sold in Germany) often have/had 130XE motherboards in them overhere. Greetings Mathy PS 64kB XE's with 130XE's never had "U35" stamped on the motherboard, so installing a GAL and a 74LS54B instead of a CO25953 isn't really "plug and play". PPS for those who didn't know untill now: U35 is a 74LS95B. Read all about it on my special stuff page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hello Larry What you describe as "looking like resistors" are zero-ohm resistors. Just desolder them and put a socket and a CO25953 inthere (available from Best and B&C for resp. 10 and 12,50 dollars). After that all you need to get 128kB of memory is to solder in two extra sockets and the extra RAMchips. I should know as I've done this on atleast one of my XE's, but probably on two. 65XE's (with ECI) and it's rebatched brother the 800XE (mainly sold in Germany) often have/had 130XE motherboards in them overhere. Greetings Mathy PS 64kB XE's with 130XE's never had "U35" stamped on the motherboard, so installing a GAL and a 74LS54B instead of a CO25953 isn't really "plug and play". PPS for those who didn't know untill now: U35 is a 74LS95B. Read all about it on my special stuff page. Hi Mathy and Karl- Thanks much for the links and info about this. I'll check this out! It sounds like my "best scenario" will turn out that way. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I'm working on the pics -- my photographic skills are pretty weak. But I did notice one thing. In the empty spot where U34 would normally be, there are 3 connections made with "resistor-looking" devices that have only one black stripe as a marking. These are beige/almond-colored devices slightly larger than a 1/4-watt resistor but smaller than a 1/2-watt. Any idea what they might be? Measuring them (connected) with a meter shows continuity, essentially with no resistance. Some type of a component-style jumper? Looking at the missing components, virtually all missing items are not present on my other 130XE's. In the best scenario for this, I would plop in a couple of DRAMS and add U34, and I'd be in business. However, realistically, there are going to be a few more components missing... -Larry Larry, Check the thread at http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102938 , these 'resistors' and U34 are discussed there roughly from the bottom of page 2 onwards. The connectors you mention are essentially jumpers that have a resistor-shaped casing. Its purpose usually is more convenient handling by machines that put components on PCB's before they are flow-soldered, but the way these jumpers are put in shows that they were done manually. You state the PCB misses 2 DRAM's, so I presume it is a 65XE. Did you fire it up already? As Mathy already pointed out, upgrading such a PCB into a 130XE is somewhat challenging. You might rather want to order CO25193 from BEST and solder it in (after removing the 3 0-Ohm resistors). In the thread mentioned above Tezz did just that succesfully on his 65XE. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Larry,Check the thread at http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102938 , these 'resistors' and U34 are discussed there roughly from the bottom of page 2 onwards. The connectors you mention are essentially jumpers that have a resistor-shaped casing. Its purpose usually is more convenient handling by machines that put components on PCB's before they are flow-soldered, but the way these jumpers are put in shows that they were done manually. You state the PCB misses 2 DRAM's, so I presume it is a 65XE. Did you fire it up already? As Mathy already pointed out, upgrading such a PCB into a 130XE is somewhat challenging. You might rather want to order CO25193 from BEST and solder it in (after removing the 3 0-Ohm resistors). In the thread mentioned above Tezz did just that succesfully on his 65XE. re-atari Hi re-atari- Thanks for the link. I seem to remember the early part of that thread, but probably didn't follow through to the end. Yes, I have fired it up, and it works perfectly -- boots from my Black Box, self-test good, etc. Looks choice, except the video is a little crappy -- probably a good candidate for the Super Video XE upgrade. Yes, I definitely will use the Atari custom GAL. I already have a "donor" 130XE MB, and that chip should be fine. Since mine is a 64X4 with only two ram chips missing (and CO25193) this should be pretty easy, unless I've missed something. The caps are even on the MB! Incidently, my MB is identical to the one in the link from Karl. Unless I can find some other info, it probably won't be possible to take this guy beyond 128K (as discussed in the other thread). Although (thinking out loud) if I piggy-backed the 2nd bank of 64X4 DRAMS... Gee, I'm looking forward to this! I certainly do appreciate all the info that folks have provided! -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) Since mine is a 64X4 with only two ram chips missing (and CO25193) this should be pretty easy, unless I've missed something. The caps are even on the MB!Incidently, my MB is identical to the one in the link from Karl. Unless I can find some other info, it probably won't be possible to take this guy beyond 128K (as discussed in the other thread). Although (thinking out loud) if I piggy-backed the 2nd bank of 64X4 DRAMS... Gee, I'm looking forward to this! There is a mod available expanding the 130XE's memory to 192KB using 8 piggybacked 4164 DRAM's on the extended bank and a 74LS158. With some adaptation, it might just work with 4464 DRAM type XE's as well. I'm sure the project description is floating around the net somewhere, try googling it and see what comes up. I might have it stashed in my A8 archive on the harddisk, will check it. This is not the end, though. Back in the days a Dutch group called 'Brabantse Hardware Freaks' developed an upgrade to 384KB for 4164 DRAM type XE's, using 41256 DRAM's piggybacked on the extended bank. IIRC it did require more additional components than the mod above to install this, but I don't know the precise ins & outs, as I don't have the entire story at hand at the moment. re-atari Edited June 23, 2007 by re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hello guys Forget about the 384kB upgrade by the "Brabantse Hardware Freaks". You'll have to give up two pins on the joystickport. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 There is a mod available expanding the 130XE's memory to 192KB using 8 piggybacked 4164 DRAM's on the extended bank and a 74LS158. With some adaptation, it might just work with 4464 DRAM type XE's as well. I'm sure the project description is floating around the net somewhere, try googling it and see what comes up. I might have it stashed in my A8 archive on the harddisk, will check it.This is not the end, though. Back in the days a Dutch group called 'Brabantse Hardware Freaks' developed an upgrade to 384KB for 4164 DRAM type XE's, using 41256 DRAM's piggybacked on the extended bank. IIRC it did require more additional components than the mod above to install this, but I don't know the precise ins & outs, as I don't have the entire story at hand at the moment. re-atari Hi- I've Googled quite a bit and found two related upgrade ideas. First is the Innovative Concepts 128K Upgrade for the XEGS from B&C, but that is a little different since it is for a machine that has no CO25953. It's $50, so that's probably more than I would want to invest in a kit that might or might not adapt to my 65XE. I've also found Scott Peterson's 320K upgrade for the 65XE that piggybacks the ram chips. It might be possible to adapt that. I also found your mention of the 192K upgrade in another thread, so if you run across that file, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it. Has anyone actually done the Innovative Concepts XEGS upgrade (and could share some of the info from the mod)? -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 lots of info in this thread I know that Tezz has done a 320k 65XE with a 130XE MB upgrade, try sending him a PM if you need to ask any more Q's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 lots of info in this thread I know that Tezz has done a 320k 65XE with a 130XE MB upgrade, try sending him a PM if you need to ask any more Q's Thanks, Mimo. There is good info in that thread, but unfortunately, my 65XE's are of the 64X4 ram variety, while his look to be 64X1. Upgrades, etc are going to be different. But I've made progress... OS rom removed and socketed with a multi-OS chip installed. CO25953 removed from "donor" and installed/socketed. Ram solder rings from the the two empty 4464 locations cleaned out and sockets installed. Everything works -- just waiting now for my new 4464 DRAMS to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 sorry, my mistake, I should read every word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I also found your mention of the 192K upgrade in another thread, so if you run across that file, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it. I have searched my entire A8 archive for the text of this mod, but sadly I couldn't find it. It's out there, I know I've seen it. I may have read it in a A8 magazine, but which one... Sorry I have to disappoint you. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 I also found your mention of the 192K upgrade in another thread, so if you run across that file, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it. I have searched my entire A8 archive for the text of this mod, but sadly I couldn't find it. It's out there, I know I've seen it. I may have read it in a A8 magazine, but which one... Sorry I have to disappoint you. re-atari Hi- Thanks for checking -- I do appreciate the effort. By chance, while searching for something else, I found something instructive along this line today. Check out "RAM130" using XL Search. It was written by Rich Andrews and it goes into the piggy-backing 64X1 chips and some of the theory behind what is happening. I think that there is enough info there to proceed. Scott Peterson's 65XE->320K upgrade also provides some piggy-backing info. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Mathy...Unless i am much mistaken....All UK/European XE's (dont' know about the 800xe though) has or had ECI built in as standard, only the American original 65xe didn't have ECI built in....Later versions did though (so i'm told) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Hello Carmel You're not mistaken (but I'm unsure if the American 65XE's had an ECI in it's later years). I've told people a zillion times myself. I don't like to say everything over and over. And I try to keep my messages as readable as possible. If I stuff to much information in it that doesn't concern what we're talking about, people miss the clue of what I want to say. BTW the fact that I try something does not mean that I succeed all the time. Greetings Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 My 4464 DRAMs arrived today, and I slipped them into the new sockets in the extended ram positions. Booted up just fine from floppies or BB. Then I ran the self-test and a ram test of the extended banks. Everything on this XE works just fine. Think I'll do a fair amount of research/contemplation before I try to upgrade this beyond the "stock" 128K. Incidently, after I put the RF shield back on, the video display cleaned up very nicely. Thanks for all the help -- it's much appreciated! -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) you shouldve got 41256s.. Theyd work just as good. and then when you decide you want more ram, you just add 1 memory adress line, 2 lines to the pia portb outputs, a multiplexer IC and a resistor (basically 50 cents worth of parts), and youve got a scott petersen 320k XE. Edited July 2, 2007 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 you shouldve got 41256s.. Theyd work just as good. and then when you decide you want more ram, you just add 1 memory adress line, 2 lines to the pia portb outputs, a multiplexer IC and a resistor (basically 50 cents worth of parts), and youve got a scott petersen 320k XE. I have plenty of 41256's, but I didn't think they could be used -- I only had two extra sockets (64X4 DRAM) not eight. And I've read that 44256's are 20-pin DIPS rather than the 18-pin 4464. Could you explain this a little further? Thanks, -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guus.assmann Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 My 4464 DRAMs arrived today, and I slipped them into the new sockets in the extended ram positions. Booted up just fine from floppies or BB. Then I ran the self-test and a ram test of the extended banks. Everything on this XE works just fine. Think I'll do a fair amount of research/contemplation before I try to upgrade this beyond the "stock" 128K. Incidently, after I put the RF shield back on, the video display cleaned up very nicely.Thanks for all the help -- it's much appreciated! -Larry If you take 44256 chips and piggy-back them on the extra 4464 you put in, it will work just like the 320K upgrade. (These chips can be found on Video-boards for "old" 486 or pentium I ) All you need are some multiplexers, like the 74LS158 to sort out the address lines (And the Cas or Ras signal, I can't remember the correct one.) If need be, I can also get the publication about the upgrade. (It needs some digging though, it's been many years ago that I wrote it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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