Xbox Live Content: Buyer Beware

[MetalSlime23]

I wanted to post a buyer beware notice regarding an issue with Xbox live I came across. I got screwed pretty bad by this, so I'm hoping to prevent any future screwing of others.

 

I have a buddy with Cerebral Palsey who lives with his parents in their basement. He is mentally challenged and is unable to fully support himself on his own. He has an Xbox 360 and Oblivion, and he wanted to download the Shivering Isles and Kights of the Nine expansion packs, however he does not have an Internet connection for Xbox live.

 

The solution? He bought a 4,000 points card for $50 and brought his hard drive to my house. I have an Internet connection, and I was more than happy to download the content for him. I created an Xbox live silver account for him on his hard drive and downloaded everything using his point card.

 

He took his hard drive home only to find that he could not get the content to load. He brought his hard drive back over to my house and I was able to get it to work successfully. I re-downloaded the content in case it went corrupt for some reason and had him go home and try it again. The same thing happened.

 

Today I had him bring over his entire system, hard drive and all. We were able to get the content to load if he was connected to the net, however the minute we tried it offline it wouldn't load. We tried it again on my console with his hard drive both online and offline, only to find that it worked fine.

 

It was obvious that his ability to use his purchased content depended on his ability to use the net. VERY angry at this point, I called Microsoft to see what the hell was the deal.

 

What I found is this: When you download content on Xbox Live, it attaches the serial number of the console used to purchase to the item purchased. If you use the same console, it will load offline as well as online. Otherwise you will have to have an Internet connection to use it. Microsoft informed me that when you go to the confirm download screen you are SUPPOSED to click the button that says "usage restrictions", which explains this clearly. The thing that pisses me off is that this option is at the very bottom of the screen and isn't obvious. How many people are actually going to think to click on that when downloading a game on Xbox Live? The stupid thing should pop up right after you click "confirm download".

 

Needless to say they told me it was my fault for not reading the instructions. While this may be true, I feel they did a pretty good job of hiding it from the average consumer, and in the end get to steal people's money because of it. I talked to two supervisors, and even tech support. NO ONE would do anything about it. All I wanted was for them to give him his points back so we could download the content through his own system. They adamantly REFUSED saying it was not possible. I know they are capable of giving refunds. They have to be able to give refunds for cases that warrant it.

 

My poor buddy had to go buy another $50 point card to be able to play what he paid for originally, and we had to create a totally different gamer tag to do it. Before doing this, ee tried deleting the downloaded content and his gamer tag. We then recovered his gamer tag and re-downloaded the content using his system. It still didn't work offline.

 

I also confirmed that if you replace your console for ANY reason (even for a system failure), you will lose the content you purchased if you do not have a net connection. Even if you re-download eveything onto your new console and hard drive, you will not be able to access any of it offline. Microsoft actually admitted to me that they can do a workaround to allow people to re-download online content through their new systems they had to replace through a system failure, however they could do nothing for me.

 

Another reason to hate Microsoft. Not only do their systems fail constantly, but they are pocketing all sorts of money through their Live service and screwing people like my friend in the process. Not everyone has an Internet connection, and if you pay for something, you have the right to use it.

 

Buyer beware.

[Gabriel]

My poor buddy had to go buy another $50 point card to be able to play what he paid for originally, and we had to create a totally different gamer tag to do it. Before doing this, ee tried deleting the downloaded content and his gamer tag. We then recovered his gamer tag and re-downloaded the content using his system. It still didn't work offline.

 

I also confirmed that if you replace your console for ANY reason (even for a system failure), you will lose the content you purchased if you do not have a net connection. Even if you re-download eveything onto your new console and hard drive, you will not be able to access any of it offline. Microsoft actually admitted to me that they can do a workaround to allow people to re-download online content through their new systems they had to replace through a system failure, however they could do nothing for me.

 

I wish you had mentioned this plan to us. We could have informed you of the fine print before your friend blew their $50 card.

 

I think there was someone who posted a method to disconnect the downloads from a previous console and reattach it to a new one. I think that only works if you've had to get a replacement console from Microsoft, though.

 

But we've been over this a bit, how the games lock to the console and not to the user profile. I was VERY leery of this before I embraced microsatan and downloadable content. Ultimately, you have to be comfortable with the fact that you're not paying to own. You're paying for a rental with no set return date.

 

Still, it's not very clear.

[moycon]

Actually the part about replacing your console and losing the abilty to play the content offline isn't true anymore.

Last time I replaced my console I had read that when you get the new console insert your hard drive, delete all the games (or video's) off, re-download the games to to the hard drive and they should work. I tried it out and it seems to have worked fine for me. I did lose the ability to use some of it offline, but that was because I had originally downloaded it on yet another 360 console, the content that had been tied to the console I had returned were accessable even when i wasn't online. (Good deal) Can only be done on maintenance returns from MS tho I think. Still, yeah this is definately a frustrating policy to combat piracy. Hopefully they will have a better solution in the future.

Edited August 31, 2007 by moycon

[Lastblade]

XBLA contents are tied to BOTH your gamertag and your console.

[Shannon]

You should of had him bring over his 360 and h-drive, create his own gamertag, and then download the content using your internet connection. And yes I agree this policy is annoying and Microsoft certainly is not very clear about it. But if you move the cursor to "usage limitations" or something like that when downloading content it actually tells you this stuff.

[MetalSlime23]

I hate Microsoft. Seriously. I think it's wrong. It's just really wrong.

 

I don't think they are about their customers at all.

[moycon]

That does suck that happened, but unfortunately it's fairly common knowledge. If you had asked someone prior to trying what you did a half dozen of us would have steered you in the right direction. Basically it keeps people (like yourself) from buying content and then getting all your friends 360s and re-downloading the content to their 360. In this case you were trying to help out your pal, but believe me, many many people would take advantage if it was possible to do what you were trying. They were thinking of their customers, unfortunately most of their customers aren't as nice as you and wouldn't think twice of buying software and sharing it free with the world, that's why they did what they did.

[Shannon]

Believe or not the Wii is the same way, and as of this date I believe there isn't even a way to transfer VC titles too another Wii.

[rxd]

I'm really sorry about your situation but this type of MS bashing annoys the crap out of me.

 

If there was a way around this restriction XBLA would be shutdown within 1 month. Do you really think people wouldn't be posting the exploit on the web? Do you actually believe anyone would pay for XBLA games anymore? Do you think ANY game developer would create new content for XBLA? I'm sure MS has these restrictions to protect the actual game developers interests more than there own. Don't get me wrong I'm no MS fanboy and Bill Gates can spend eternity burning in the lowest level of hell for all I care. But really if you think about it clearly they have no choice, otherwise they wouldn't be able to get anyone to develop for XBLA. I'd rather deal with these trivial issues and get great content than have the ability to move games between machines and get stuck with a bunch of MS shovelware games because nobody would develop any XBLA games.

[Mendon]

Believe or not the Wii is the same way, and as of this date I believe there isn't even a way to transfer VC titles too another Wii.

 

100% correct.

 

Believe it or not, Nintendo is worse than MS when it comes to recovering downloaded games:

 

A) If you bought an in-store warranty and decide to use that warranty, you're screwed because your VC games will be gone with NO way to recover or transfer any of them.

 

B) If you decide to use Nintendo's "Fast Exchange" option to avoid weeks (or more) of waiting for a replacement console to be shipped to you by Nintendo, you're screwed because your VC games will be gone with NO way to recover or transfer any of them.

 

C) If you ever decide to buy a different console for any reason (Limited Edition console or different color console or upgraded console or whatever) you're screwed because your VC games will be gone with no way to recover or transfer any of them.

 

The only way you can keep your VC games on a different console is to send your broken console to Nintendo with a letter stating you want them to transfer the "license for all your VC games to your replacement console before shipping the console to you". Nintendo will then assign the license for your VC purchases to the new console and when you receive the console you can then re-download your games.

 

What's even worse is the fact that Nintendo does not openly advertise this policy (is buried within a long agreement page at the VC store) nor do stores make it known to customers when they pitch an extended warranty at purchase time.

 

I feel sorry for those people who purchased a 1 or 2 year in-store warranty for the Wii, made a bunch of VC purchases, then encountered a problem with their console. These people now face a choice: lose all the money they paid for VC games and exchange their console at the store or lose the money they paid for the warranty but keep their games by shipping their console to Nintendo.

 

Since learning of the policy that Nintendo implemented regarding VC purchases, I have purchased NO VC games, and that angers me because I bought the Wii for two purposes: Nintendo brand games (Zelda, Mario, etc) and VC games. MS and Sony at least have policies that enable you to recover your purchases on a different console but Nintendo is totally customer unfriendly when it comes to VC games.

 

I've written several letters to Nintendo informing them of my displeasure with their policy and that they have lost VC sales because of this policy, but all I ever received was a nice form letter/canned response.

 

(SIDE NOTE: sorry for the Nintendo rant in the Xbox forum but decided to do so since usage policies were being discussed in this thread)

 

 

Mendon

[MCHufnagel]

I'm really sorry about your situation but this type of MS bashing annoys the crap out of me.

 

If there was a way around this restriction XBLA would be shutdown within 1 month. Do you really think people wouldn't be posting the exploit on the web? Do you actually believe anyone would pay for XBLA games anymore? Do you think ANY game developer would create new content for XBLA? I'm sure MS has these restrictions to protect the actual game developers interests more than there own. Don't get me wrong I'm no MS fanboy and Bill Gates can spend eternity burning in the lowest level of hell for all I care. But really if you think about it clearly they have no choice, otherwise they wouldn't be able to get anyone to develop for XBLA. I'd rather deal with these trivial issues and get great content than have the ability to move games between machines and get stuck with a bunch of MS shovelware games because nobody would develop any XBLA games.

There is a way for two people to pay for one download and have both consoles play it offline. Look around.

[compacho]

Believe or not the Wii is the same way, and as of this date I believe there isn't even a way to transfer VC titles too another Wii.

 

100% correct.

 

Believe it or not, Nintendo is worse than MS when it comes to recovering downloaded games:

 

A) If you bought an in-store warranty and decide to use that warranty, you're screwed because your VC games will be gone with NO way to recover or transfer any of them.

 

B) If you decide to use Nintendo's "Fast Exchange" option to avoid weeks (or more) of waiting for a replacement console to be shipped to you by Nintendo, you're screwed because your VC games will be gone with NO way to recover or transfer any of them.

 

C) If you ever decide to buy a different console for any reason (Limited Edition console or different color console or upgraded console or whatever) you're screwed because your VC games will be gone with no way to recover or transfer any of them.

 

The only way you can keep your VC games on a different console is to send your broken console to Nintendo with a letter stating you want them to transfer the "license for all your VC games to your replacement console before shipping the console to you". Nintendo will then assign the license for your VC purchases to the new console and when you receive the console you can then re-download your games.

 

What's even worse is the fact that Nintendo does not openly advertise this policy (is buried within a long agreement page at the VC store) nor do stores make it known to customers when they pitch an extended warranty at purchase time.

 

I feel sorry for those people who purchased a 1 or 2 year in-store warranty for the Wii, made a bunch of VC purchases, then encountered a problem with their console. These people now face a choice: lose all the money they paid for VC games and exchange their console at the store or lose the money they paid for the warranty but keep their games by shipping their console to Nintendo.

 

Since learning of the policy that Nintendo implemented regarding VC purchases, I have purchased NO VC games, and that angers me because I bought the Wii for two purposes: Nintendo brand games (Zelda, Mario, etc) and VC games. MS and Sony at least have policies that enable you to recover your purchases on a different console but Nintendo is totally customer unfriendly when it comes to VC games.

 

I've written several letters to Nintendo informing them of my displeasure with their policy and that they have lost VC sales because of this policy, but all I ever received was a nice form letter/canned response.

 

(SIDE NOTE: sorry for the Nintendo rant in the Xbox forum but decided to do so since usage policies were being discussed in this thread)

 

 

Mendon

 

Mendon, thanks for all that great info man. I'll keep that in mind.

 

But what i really need to know now is about 360. You see, I just bought one the other day at Best Buy along with an in store warranty and was wondering if my xbox dies, can I replace it at Bestbuy and retain all my downloads and saves that are on the harddrive, or should I cancel the warranty and just stick with MS's warranty so I can keep my games and saves?

[MCHufnagel]

But what i really need to know now is about 360. You see, I just bought one the other day at Best Buy along with an in store warranty and was wondering if my xbox dies, can I replace it at Bestbuy and retain all my downloads and saves that are on the harddrive, or should I cancel the warranty and just stick with MS's warranty so I can keep my games and saves?

Best Buy will let you keep your hard drive if you need to exchange consoles with the warranty. They will just switch the new one out at the store. But you'll have to be on Xbox Live to play the full versions of your downloaded games.

[compacho]

So there will be no conflict with the HDD if its on a newer xbox than originally? If so, then that gives me some peace of mind. (For the time being)

[moycon]

So there will be no conflict with the HDD if its on a newer xbox than originally? If so, then that gives me some peace of mind. (For the time being)

 

You can use the HD in any 360, but keep in mind if you downloaded a game to the HD while it was inserted in one 360, if you transfer the HD to another 360, you won't be able to play the full game unless you are signed in to Live, which means you'll have to be online.

 

Now I have found that if you send in your console for repairs to MS, if they send you a new console, you can insert the HD into it, delete all the Live content you have purchased, re-download it, and it seems to work fine even OFFLINE. Thing is I'm not sure if it would work when getting a replacement from Best Buys, you may want to ask them. (If they even know) The whole thing is kind of screwy really.