Anybody completely switch to emulation and not look back?

[rheffera]

I have NEVER emulated the 2600 on the PC,or any emulators for that matter( i prefer actual hardware thank you).. except for the odd homebrew and proto. I wont even have to do that anymore now that im getting a krokodile cart. . I find the keyboard controls too cumbersome, this goes for all emulators for PC IMO, except mame. I However, i DO EMULATE on CONSOLES, as the controls are much better without having to hook up a controller to the console, as it already has a controller, being a console.

 

 

As for 2600 RF Interference. its not a big issue for me. I dont get much of it with my Junior and Samsung TV. Nice clear picture every time i play. It depends on many things. The Quality & Condition of the RF lead (i use a commodore 64 one, it has a longer metal tip on the male end than normal rf leads), if you have switch boxes attached(i got lots of interference when i used one) How well the solder joints are in your tv's Ariel socket.. Grounding... The RF socket in your 2600 But none of this is a problem for me. yes i do get the occasional interference from things such as my DVD player, but thats why i have it off when i play 2600

Edited October 2, 2007 by rheffera

[Paranoid]

have NEVER emulated the 2600 on the PC,or any emulators for that matter( i prefer actual hardware thank you).. except for the odd homebrew and proto. I wont even have to do that anymore now that im getting a krokodile cart. . I find the keyboard controls too cumbersome, this goes for all emulators for PC IMO, except mame.

 

I think this is the problem. People just don't know about the alternative controller options available for emulation. I wouldn't imagine playing any PC emulated game with a keyboard, or a directional pad (unless that was an appropriate controller, of course). I play with genuine 8 way Atari and Atari type digital sticks, on my PC... or with genuine arcade controls on my MAME cabinet.

 

In all honesty, I have a $200 X-Arcade... and MAME with a Stelladaptor and a CX46 style stick is good enough for the VAST majority of games out there.

 

And of course, Phaxda is correct... it is simply nice to have options. Sometimes I do like to groove out, even by myself, on the real deal.

[rheffera]

I think this is the problem. People just don't know about the alternative controller options available for emulation.

 

Not True. I am aware, i Just still believe emulation is inferior to real hardware..it dosn't feel right to me, with the exception of mame. IMO Why bother with emulation when hardware for the consoles can be had cheaply & you wont have to butcher console controllers to make it work with the PC.

 

In all honesty, I have a $200 X-Arcade... and MAME with a Stelladaptor and a CX46 style stick is good enough for the VAST majority of games out there.

 

With MAME I can definetly understand. Not everyone can afford to have 10,000+ arcade machines in their homes... it makes sense to Emulate with MAME.

 

I just feel PC Emulation is a perversion of nature a little bit. Emulation is a great testing tool, and i think its great we can hook up things with stelladaptor , but thats not the way it was in 1977. If people could have emulated the 2600 in 1977 im very sure the atari 2600 woudnt have made it to the 90's. but it brings up the point:"Why bother collecting when you can just Emulate?" To me Emulation takes away the consoles Cultural Value and Significance, particularly if the hardware is cheap and readily avaliable.

 

For example. If i had only been exposed to 2600 emulation as a boy instead of actual console, instead of having fond memories of my little Jr. i would only have memories along the lines of "Oh 2600? those were really old games i played on my PC". It may make me want to play them again someday, but i would porbably only have sought out the emulator again, not the hardware. By collecting hardware instead of emulating your keeping the console's scene alive and less of the hardware out of the landfill.

 

For emulating rare games / lost games and testing out protos i think emulation is great..but i dont even need to do that anymore now that im getting a krok cart.. So really i have no use for stella.

 

MAME is an exception in my rulebooks

 

Thats just my opinion..maybe im a little too protective of my 2600.

Edited October 3, 2007 by rheffera

[+Random Terrain]

have NEVER emulated the 2600 on the PC,or any emulators for that matter( i prefer actual hardware thank you).. except for the odd homebrew and proto. I wont even have to do that anymore now that im getting a krokodile cart. . I find the keyboard controls too cumbersome, this goes for all emulators for PC IMO, except mame.

I think this is the problem. People just don't know about the alternative controller options available for emulation.

Yeah, I wouldn't play games using emulators like Stella or MAME without my USB controller:

 

[+Random Terrain]

I just feel PC Emulation is a perversion of nature a little bit. Emulation is a great testing tool, and i think its great we can hook up things with stelladaptor , but thats not the way it was in 1977. If people could have emulated the 2600 in 1977 I'm very sure the Atari 2600 wouldn't have made it to the 90s. But it brings up the point:"Why bother collecting when you can just Emulate?" To me Emulation takes away the consoles Cultural Value and Significance, particularly if the hardware is cheap and readily available.

One good thing about emulation is that the online version of Stella is improving and it will allow people to try Atari 2600 games who may never have thought about buying an Atari or downloading an emulator and the games. Homebrewers will also be able to put their own games on their web sites for people to play. Tell me that isn't cool.

 

Another good thing about emulation is that I can play games that I always wanted to try so I can see if they suck. They usually do suck and I can be glad I never paid money for them back in the 1980s. If I find a game that really is fun, I can buy the cartridge when I get the extra cash. I'd still be in the dark without emulation. I have no desire to buy games that I hate, so emulators are great for weeding out the crap.

 

Every console that enough people cared about will be emulated and emulation will improve as time goes on. It doesn't matter what things were like in 1977, after enough time goes by, every console that is considered worthy enough to be emulated should be emulated so everyone can get a chance to play the games. Sure, a handful of old techie nerds who haven't died yet will be able to fix their own crusty consoles, but that doesn't help others who would never have a chance to appreciate the games without emulation.

 

On a related subject, I don't know how long my 3DO is going to last, so it's nice to know that I can play the 3DO version of Star Control on my computer.

[kidnicky]

How do you "butcher a controller" to use it on the PC? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You plug it into an adapter,just like you'd plug it into a 2600. How are you harming it? Of course,worst case scenario,you could buy a USB joypad. Mine was 14 dollars.

[Blackjack]

I think this is the problem. People just don't know about the alternative controller options available for emulation. I wouldn't imagine playing any PC emulated game with a keyboard, or a directional pad (unless that was an appropriate controller, of course). I play with genuine 8 way Atari and Atari type digital sticks, on my PC... or with genuine arcade controls on my MAME cabinet.

In all honesty, I have a $200 X-Arcade... and MAME with a Stelladaptor and a CX46 style stick is good enough for the VAST majority of games out there.

 

Agreed! Agreed! Stelladapter cx joy, a gravis gamepad pro, and a slik stik classic for mame..... it's all good.

 

One good thing about emulation is that the online version of Stella is improving and it will allow people to try Atari 2600 games who may never have thought about buying an Atari or downloading an emulator and the games. Homebrewers will also be able to put their own games on their web sites for people to play. Tell me that isn't cool.

 

That is WAY cool.

 

How do you "butcher a controller" to use it on the PC? You plug it into an adapter,just like you'd plug it into a 2600. How are you harming it? Of course,worst case scenario,you could buy a USB joypad. Mine was 14 dollars.

 

Ditto..... you don't have to butcher anything.

[Paranoid]

Not True. I am aware, i Just still believe emulation is inferior to real hardware..it dosn't feel right to me, with the exception of mame. IMO Why bother with emulation when hardware for the consoles can be had cheaply & you wont have to butcher console controllers to make it work with the PC.

 

 

See, though... you're kind of proving my point. It *can't* be had more cheaply than emulation. How much did your Krok cart cost? It wasn't inexpensive, I am sure. And a Krok cart is actually far less flexible than a CC2, and I know no one is giving THOSE away, either. I've got one.

 

Emulation is the console and the cart, downloaded on a cable connection you already had, ran on a PC you already bought. And you don't have to butcher anything. I use a Flashback 2 joystick with my Stelladaptor. Brand new Stelladaptor, brand new Atari joystick. And if I need the joystick somewhere else, I unplug it from the Stella, and plug it in there.

 

Totaly cost for what amounts to an Atari 7800 and a Cuttle Cart 2 loaded with every ROM ever distributed... about $60. (assuming I just take the FB2 and throw it in the trash).

 

You can't beat that price for a collection that includes titles like Quadrun... or with a CuttleCart or Krok Cart - on the real hardware.

 

I think you kind of touch on it at the end... it is a psychological thing. I'm not saying it is bad... simply a different preference. But the actual EXPERIENCE of playing the game... it just isn't there anymore. The emulated game is virtually indistinguishible from the real game on real hardware, these days. MAME is actually probably the WORST in this aspect. If I load up an Atari 5200 game on my 5200, then load it up on my Xbox, it looks the same on either, and plays the same on either. MAME, on the other hand, if you happen to have the original arcade game right next to the MAME emulation, the difference is *glaring*. Literally no doubt about which is which. I don't mind... as you point out... it just isn't practical to have all your favorite arcade titles at home as original cabinet units. But MAME is the LEAST faithful emulation out right now. My claim about "blind taste-test" emulation wouldn't work for MAME. If you put a MAME box right next to the original title, even with everything else being equal, most serious gamers would be able to tell the MAME emulation from the real thing. I mean, assuming the same cabinet, the same monitor, the same controllers, but one is being driven by the original arcade logic board and the other is a PC running MAME... someone who knows the game is going to be able to tell. I don't think that holds true for 2600 emulation at *all*, anymore, in most of the cases... and very rarely for most other emulated platforms (5200, Atari 8 bit, C-64, etc), either.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Paranoid

[Artlover]

MAME is actually probably the WORST in this aspect. If I load up an Atari 5200 game on my 5200, then load it up on my Xbox, it looks the same on either, and plays the same on either. MAME, on the other hand, if you happen to have the original arcade game right next to the MAME emulation, the difference is *glaring*. Literally no doubt about which is which. I don't mind... as you point out... it just isn't practical to have all your favorite arcade titles at home as original cabinet units. But MAME is the LEAST faithful emulation out right now. My claim about "blind taste-test" emulation wouldn't work for MAME. If you put a MAME box right next to the original title, even with everything else being equal, most serious gamers would be able to tell the MAME emulation from the real thing. I mean, assuming the same cabinet, the same monitor, the same controllers, but one is being driven by the original arcade logic board and the other is a PC running MAME... someone who knows the game is going to be able to tell. I don't think that holds true for 2600 emulation at *all*, anymore, in most of the cases... and very rarely for most other emulated platforms (5200, Atari 8 bit, C-64, etc), either.

I dunno. You're starting to get into things that have less to do with emulation persay.

 

Not all emulators are alike. 2600 emus used to be crappy. So did 5200 emulators. So did every emulator when it started. Also, it depends on the port. Would comparing a real 5200 to a Dremacast running Atari800dc be comparable?

 

That is not an emulation issue as much as a platform & porting issue. To that end, some ports of MAME are better then others.

 

Then, consider the games. Obviously, you can pick out examples like Space Invaders 2 or Asteroids where it would be plain as day that you're running emulation. But what about more simplistic games like Pac-Man? Would someone really beable to tell? What advanced characteristics does it have that could possibly be distinguishable?

 

And lets not overrate the others. Atari800, C64, all those. Really none are absolutly 100% perfect. Oh, many are 99.99%, but there is still that .01. In the real world, they might never be noticed, but under the right conditions, yes. Will any 2600 run any of the image series (Donald, Clown, Baboon, Mario, Animegirl....) roms? I just get garbled gfx on all the ones I've tried (tho to be honest, I've never tried them on a real console, maybe they are bad?). If there is any one emulator that I think could be called as near pefect as perfect can get, would be for the NES.

 

Emulation is what it is, emulation. Some things run perfect, some won't. Maybe it will be noticable, maybe it won't. Maybe some people won't care if it is, maybe some will.

 

For me, I love emulation. By and large, most are "close enough" for me. From 2600 to MAME. I think the only exception I would make is the Vectrex, which I've yet to see a decent emulator for.

[+Zeptari]

Geez, you guys. Have you ever tried playing an Atari 2600 on a modern day television set? It's a terrible experience. Anyone who can look me in the face and tell me that playing a real Atari 2600 (RF connection and all) is superior to emulation, with its crystal clear VGA output, is either joking or has let nostalgia cloud their vision (along with the aforementioned RF video).

 

 

Just get one of these from Radio Shack!!

 

http://www.atariage.com/store/index.php?ma...;products_id=42

 

Picture is real clear!

 

-rick

[PressureCooker2600]

I'm with phaxda on this one.

 

One big reason I use emulation half the time is pure laziness. I'm always closer to the computer and all it takes is a click and "GAME ON"! Plus, tons of my games are piled on top of each other and it would take quite awhile to go through it all and find what I'm looking for.....I keep my mainstays close at hand. And, like I said before, nothing comes close to beating the original experience of playing on a VCS. We all grew up on it so why wouldn't we prefer the original??

 

But yea....I'm pretty lazy.

[Paranoid]

I think the problem with MAME comes down to it being an attempt to emulate the HARDWARE with the games being an afterthought. Because of that, the timing is simply *off* unless you go to great lengths. Even playing on a TV tube, you also lose the authentic arcade CRT *look* of the game with MAME. If you do get an analog video card designed specifically for apps like MAME, which is EXPENSIVE, and a real arcade CRT, and build a cabinet around MAME, you *still* only get CERTAIN games that run at the right speed (and even then, I think it is theoretical that they should run at the right speed). Lots of different games back then used lots of different monitors at a range of different fixed frequencies. If you play a game from back then on a monitor that isn't at the frequency it was designed for... it does one of two things, it runs faster, or it runs slower...

 

Those two things are just built into the design of MAME. It wants to run at a fixed frequency, and your PC or Xbox almost certainly cannot match that frequency. So the game is going to run faster or slower. It might be barely perceptible, but it will ALWAYS be there on the VAST majority of titles. Second, no matter what kind of monitor you use, it is only going to be suitable to a certain percentage of the possible games out there.

 

Which is why I think arcade purists would be far more likely to be able to figure out MAME from the real thing on a blind taste test than say, a classic 2600 purist comparing Stella to a real 2600.

 

But I suppose, realistically, if you got to REALLY cherry pick the ROM image, the hardware setup, from front to back... MAME would probably be able to fool a purist, too, in certain cases. I did kind of lay down those guidelines for the others being able to fool a purist, so I guess MAME should be able to put forth its best example, as well.

[Artlover]

Even playing on a TV tube, you also lose the authentic arcade CRT *look* of the game with MAME.

Well, some incarnations of MAME allow you to rotate the display for tv tubes mounted sideways.

 

You'de have to be one hell of a perfectionist to notice the raster lines were vertical instead of horizonal.

[Esplin]

I remember way back in my early days of finding classic games (Late 90's) I tried my hand at emulation. I had all my games on floppies and really enjoyed it! But then when I got my hands on a 2600 and actually started to play the games with the joystick I never really looked back.

 

I use emulation now for rare games or for when I am not at home. But all in all I really do enjoy the feeling of the controller in my hands and the imperfections of my TV hookups.

[Recycled]

I use emulation now for rare games or for when I am not at home. But all in all I really do enjoy the feeling of the controller in my hands and the imperfections of my TV hookups.

 

 

I think we're biologically hardwired to hold our joystick in our hand. That's why.

[Paranoid]

I think we're biologically hardwired to hold our joystick in our hand. That's why.

 

I'd say I've been pretty much an expert at this since I was 11....

 

But, anyhow... yeah, I actually changed to an LCD on a 90 degree tilt swivel for my MAME display. It looks even LESS authentic than a SVGA CRT on the one hand, but it is far easier to roll between landscape and portrait between different titles.

 

But that is my point. Mame is ALL about a *bunch* of concessions, just because of the variety of radically different hardware customizations that existed in the specialized market that arcade cabinets catered to. Pretty hard to faithfully recreate TRON, or Roadblasters, or Star Wars - without having an INCREDIBLY busy control panel... and lets not even get started about the variety of different displays these particular titles had. What about Battlezone? Different monitors sizes, types, orientations, different control panels... and different gimmicks... for countless games... and MAME is trying to recreate them all. It is a HARD road for MAME to be accurately *faithful* to the arcade game it is trying to emulate.

 

On the other hand, hooking up a PC or Xbox to a TV, and hooking up a "couple of buttons" 8 way digital joystick, and emulating a 2600 accurately - is a far easier goal to achieve.

 

One is easy to fool someone looking for the specific details... the other is hard.

 

MAME does an EXCELLENT job at what it does. I'm not knocking MAME at all. There are just logistical issues with MAME that other emulators aren't as prone to. (although admittedly, there is no consistent and reliable commercial way to hook up an INTV joypad or a 5200 joystick to a PC or Xbox).

[kidnicky]

It amazes me that four pages in,we're still getting posts saying PC emulation sucks because you have to use a keyboard. You don't!

[Omegamatrix]

It amazes me that four pages in,we're still getting posts saying PC emulation sucks because you have to use a keyboard. You don't!

 

:lust: :lust: :lust:

[Keatah]

Emulation all the way babycakes! Emulation will be here long long wayway past when the last 2600 dies..

[rheffera]

Emulation all the way babycakes! Emulation will be here long long way way past when the last 2600 dies..

 

Illogical Statement. As long as there are fanatics to fix 2600's the 2600 will live on

(we are resourceful scavengers, arnt we ). It will die when all us fans are quite literally dead and buried (60+ Years). After that happens there wont be anyone left in the year 2067+ that cares about the 2600, so 2600 emulation will fade into nothingness as well . Hence, 2600 Emulation wont outlive the physical 2600

Edited October 6, 2007 by rheffera

[rheffera]

It amazes me that four pages in,we're still getting posts saying PC emulation sucks because you have to use a keyboard. You don't!

 

 

You dont seem to understand. Its not just the keyboard thing. Its already been mentioned that its a psychological thing too.

[Rom Hunter]

Emulation will be here long long wayway past when the last 2600 dies..

Sad, but true.

 

[Rom Hunter]

It will die when all us fans are quite literally dead and buried (60+ Years). After that happens there wont be anyone left in the year 2067+ that cares about the 2600, so 2600 emulation will fade into nothingness as well . Hence, 2600 Emulation wont outlive the physical 2600

I don't think so.

 

The Atari 2600 period will always be one of the most important chapters of video game (art) history.

 

And emulation (along with watching digitized pictures and movies from that period) is a way to experience that chapter, no matter who you are.

 

Even way after the last VCS falls apart.

 

Do you really think I'm creating a VCS database for people who experience(d) the real thing only?

 

That would be immensely naïve, now wouldn't it?

 

Edited October 6, 2007 by Rom Hunter

[+Random Terrain]

It will die when all us fans are quite literally dead and buried (60+ Years). After that happens there wont be anyone left in the year 2067+ that cares about the 2600, so 2600 emulation will fade into nothingness as well . Hence, 2600 Emulation wont outlive the physical 2600

Bull poopies. Some curious kids will always find out about the Atari 2600 and other consoles thanks to the Internet. As long as there are people who can keep the old emulators working on the latest computers, emulators will not die. Kids who care about games, especially those that might want to make their own games will collect emulators and games for every console they can. 'Classic' games will outlast those who created and played the originals. The games will be played and studied for as long as computers exist. Emulation = preservation.

[user42]

I'm on the emulation bandwagon

I have an X-Aracde, a Stelladaptor (for paddles)+2 Retrozone 9pin usb adaptors (2600 sticks, SMS pads,ect...), 4 Adaptoids (N64), 2 PSX to usb adaptors, and a NES Four Score modified for USB.....I think thats all...

I want to find one of these for my retro Sega needs but the only places I found it were sold out

It is a USB pad made by Sega Japan.