PP "Seller Protection" only good for USA, UK & CANADA transactions

[FND]

I was just reading a thread over at DP and noticed this somewhat hidden Paypal information, it was posted there by a DP/AA user.

Seems only sales by Sellers in USA, UK and CANADA are covered by PayPals SELLER PROTECTION only when Buyers are also

from USA, UK or CANADA, selling to any other country will not Qualify !

 

11. Seller Protection Policy.

 

11.1 Benefits. The Seller Protection Policy, which applies only to Verified Business and Premier Accounts, reimburses sellers of certain types of goods who follow certain sound selling practices. If your transaction meets the qualification requirements for the Seller Protection Policy, PayPal will reimburse you for the amount of the Chargeback or Reversal and, if applicable, waive the Chargeback Fee.

 

 

11.3 Qualification Requirements. In order to qualify for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy, you must meet the following requirements:

 

2. The transaction must be between a US, UK or Canadian buyer and a US, UK or Canadian seller,

 

See section 11.3 within the Paypal User Agreement link below

Paypal User Agreement

Edited November 2, 2007 by FND

[Almost Rice]

They will not protect you. Ebay/paypal will suck money out of your account.

[Albert]

After getting screwed by several buyers in Europe and South America this year, I now only accept PayPal from buyers in the US and Canada. PayPal will always side with the buyer unless you can show proof of delivery, which of course you cannot do unless you use expensive Global Express Mail for international shipments. PayPal's "Seller Protection" policy is just icing on the cake.

 

..Al

[FABombjoy]

He's not just a DP user

[DreamTR]

After getting screwed by several buyers in Europe and South America this year, I now only accept PayPal from buyers in the US and Canada. PayPal will always side with the buyer unless you can show proof of delivery, which of course you cannot do unless you use expensive Global Express Mail for international shipments. PayPal's "Seller Protection" policy is just icing on the cake.

 

..Al

 

 

Albert, the tracking issue you mention is not true. Every international package that uses the small, green customs form has a tracing number that shows delivery via the usps.com site. Any First Class International ,Priority Mail International, or ANY package that requires a Customs number has automatic tracing. It has been like this for quite some time, but not a lot of people know this.

[Albert]

After getting screwed by several buyers in Europe and South America this year, I now only accept PayPal from buyers in the US and Canada. PayPal will always side with the buyer unless you can show proof of delivery, which of course you cannot do unless you use expensive Global Express Mail for international shipments. PayPal's "Seller Protection" policy is just icing on the cake.

 

..Al

 

 

Albert, the tracking issue you mention is not true. Every international package that uses the small, green customs form has a tracing number that shows delivery via the usps.com site. Any First Class International ,Priority Mail International, or ANY package that requires a Customs number has automatic tracing. It has been like this for quite some time, but not a lot of people know this.

While each customs form does indeed have a unique number, it is useless as far as tracking whether a package has been delivered. It will be scanned when you drop a package off at the post office (or in my case, electronically sent to the USPS), but the only thing you'll see when you enter this information on the USPS website is,

 

"Electronic Shipping Info Received"

 

I just checked ten international packages that were sent over a month ago, and that's all that is stated about each package. These packages should all have been delivered by now, and I know several of them have been from speaking with the recipients in the last few weeks.

 

..Al

[holygrailvideogames.com]

After getting screwed by several buyers in Europe and South America this year, I now only accept PayPal from buyers in the US and Canada. PayPal will always side with the buyer unless you can show proof of delivery, which of course you cannot do unless you use expensive Global Express Mail for international shipments. PayPal's "Seller Protection" policy is just icing on the cake.

 

..Al

 

 

Albert, the tracking issue you mention is not true. Every international package that uses the small, green customs form has a tracing number that shows delivery via the usps.com site. Any First Class International ,Priority Mail International, or ANY package that requires a Customs number has automatic tracing. It has been like this for quite some time, but not a lot of people know this.

While each customs form does indeed have a unique number, it is useless as far as tracking whether a package has been delivered. It will be scanned when you drop a package off at the post office (or in my case, electronically sent to the USPS), but the only thing you'll see when you enter this information on the USPS website is,

 

"Electronic Shipping Info Received"

 

I just checked ten international packages that were sent over a month ago, and that's all that is stated about each package. These packages should all have been delivered by now, and I know several of them have been from speaking with the recipients in the last few weeks.

 

..Al

 

Al is right about this. The only way that you can protect yourself when accepting PayPal from buyers in Canada or the UK is to ship Global Express Mail or another carrier such as FedEx, DHL or UPS that offer online tracking. In addition the buyer must also have a confirmed address. Most buyer don't want to pay for the additional shipping charge not to mention that many of the buyers in Canada and the UK have unconfirmed addresses.

 

Personally I will ship to Canada or Australia when the buyer is willing to send a money order payable in U.S. dollars but most still will only pay with PayPal.

[FND]

He's not just a DP user

 

[FND]

Looks like any protection or help from PP is very limited, even when you think you are protected they

seem to slip in some sort of hidden stipulation you never heard of.

 

I guess my best approch is to expect nothing from them and start protecting myself

 

1. New Paypal account for sales with no Credit Card attached

2. Special checking account with no overdraft protection & not attached to any other form of funds

3. Empty checking account after every transfer from PayPal.

 

ANYTHING else I am missing ?

 

FND

[Uzumaki]

A PO box address tied to Paypal in case someone screws you, PP sides with them and tries to suck the money out of you. If you don't have enough, they could send collection agency after you. if you used PO Box and then close it when Paypal screws you, mail from collection agency will not reach you. And lawyers serving warrant will have a hard time pinning the notice on post office door.

 

For better paranoid protection, use a post office a few cities away from your place ao your name wouldn't show up in local phone book. Also have unlisted phone number in the book (or use cell phone and turn it on only from 2 am to 5 am)

 

Or for the best protection against being screwed by Paypal, don't use them stick with postal money orders.

[hailrazer]

I have over 1800 Paypal transactions as a buyer/seller.

 

Only 3 problems with Paypal as a buyer. Item never delivered and they couldn't get my money back. My fault though because I knew the deals were to good to be true with sellers that had 0 feedback.

 

No problems as a seller 1500 Paypal transactions. Over 20 people tried to do chargebacks, but I had delivery confirmation and confirmed addresses and I won the case all 20 times.

 

Sure you can get screwed with Paypal if you're not careful. But if you follow the rules and use common sense you'll be fine.

[FND]

Sure you can get screwed with Paypal if you're not careful. But if you follow the rules and use common sense you'll be fine.

 

Exactly but we need to know the rules, that was the main reason I posted this when I read it, I have been using paypal

for many years myself but did not know about this stipulation.

[DreamTR]

AL and Holygrail: If you physically go to a post office and fill out everything by hand and go to a teller, and have a receipt with tracking numbers on them, they will come up in the system. I think you guys do more automatic shipping, but all of my packages tell me when they are in customs and when they are delivered in their foreign country of destination. *shrug* I don't do the automatic shipping printout paypal thinkgs or "drop" things off, I stand there and get my tracking numbers on a physical receipt.

[Albert]

AL and Holygrail: If you physically go to a post office and fill out everything by hand and go to a teller, and have a receipt with tracking numbers on them, they will come up in the system. I think you guys do more automatic shipping, but all of my packages tell me when they are in customs and when they are delivered in their foreign country of destination. *shrug* I don't do the automatic shipping printout paypal thinkgs or "drop" things off, I stand there and get my tracking numbers on a physical receipt.

A customs form is a customs form, I can't possibly see how a form filled out at the post office is any different than one where the information is transmitted electronically to the USPS. In order for a customs form to show you that it has been delivered, the postal service in the country making the delivery would need to scan the USPS customs form upon delivery and somehow get that information BACK to the USPS. I find it highly unlikely that most foreign postal services would do this for regular mail. I'd very much like to see one of your customs form numbers that shows up on tracking.usps.gov as delivered.

 

..Al

[DreamTR]

AL and Holygrail: If you physically go to a post office and fill out everything by hand and go to a teller, and have a receipt with tracking numbers on them, they will come up in the system. I think you guys do more automatic shipping, but all of my packages tell me when they are in customs and when they are delivered in their foreign country of destination. *shrug* I don't do the automatic shipping printout paypal thinkgs or "drop" things off, I stand there and get my tracking numbers on a physical receipt.

A customs form is a customs form, I can't possibly see how a form filled out at the post office is any different than one where the information is transmitted electronically to the USPS. In order for a customs form to show you that it has been delivered, the postal service in the country making the delivery would need to scan the USPS customs form upon delivery and somehow get that information BACK to the USPS. I find it highly unlikely that most foreign postal services would do this for regular mail. I'd very much like to see one of your customs form numbers that shows up on tracking.usps.gov as delivered.

 

..Al

 

 

www.usps.com

Under Tracking:

 

CP24 0862 375U S

CP24 0862 358U S

CP24 0862 106U S (this one is in Customs right now and about to clear)

 

CP11 6156 065U S

[DreamTR]

Oh, and if you call the 1800USPS number, they are supposed to give you the same info. Our postal employees tell us this after every first class or priority intl shipment we do here in Smyrna,

[Shawn]

After getting screwed by several buyers in Europe and South America this year, I now only accept PayPal from buyers in the US and Canada. PayPal will always side with the buyer unless you can show proof of delivery, which of course you cannot do unless you use expensive Global Express Mail for international shipments. PayPal's "Seller Protection" policy is just icing on the cake.

 

..Al

 

 

I'm in this boat right now with 2 sales I did to Italy about 2 months ago. One sale was 100 the other was 80 USD. I know they got there stuff and yet I'm still sitting 178 in the whole cause of these jerks trying to get free stuff out of me (well the pretty much have at this point). I am now only selling to people I know of at least by reputation, no more selling to Joe Blow cause it's a fact you will get fucked.

[Albert]

www.usps.com

Under Tracking:

 

CP24 0862 375U S

CP24 0862 358U S

CP24 0862 106U S (this one is in Customs right now and about to clear)

 

CP11 6156 065U S

That's interesting to see (and thanks for taking the time to dig those up), but I still don't give any credence to there being a difference between manually filling out a customs form and doing them electronically. The clerks at the post office are simply scanning the bar code on the customs form, which is just another way to get it into the computer.

 

Assuming you were able to get consistent results with customs forms, the big question is would PayPal accept them as proof of delivery? And if they did, would they still screw you if you sent a package to a non-verified international address?

 

..Al

[Albert]

Well, I just spent a few minutes searching around the net and unfortunately there don't really seem to be any definitive answers on why some customs numbers work and others do not. Part of it certainly is that countries need to have a reciprocal arrangement with the US in order to share the tracking of customs numbers (which some do, obviously). It also seems that the first two letters of the number have some sort of significance. I've seen reference to "CP" and "LP" as well as those used by the express mail services (such as "EC" I believe). The numbers I've been using begin with "LJ".

 

..Al

[DreamTR]

Well, I just spent a few minutes searching around the net and unfortunately there don't really seem to be any definitive answers on why some customs numbers work and others do not. Part of it certainly is that countries need to have a reciprocal arrangement with the US in order to share the tracking of customs numbers (which some do, obviously). It also seems that the first two letters of the number have some sort of significance. I've seen reference to "CP" and "LP" as well as those used by the express mail services (such as "EC" I believe). The numbers I've been using begin with "LJ".

 

..Al

 

 

Albert, I wish I could tell you why it's random like that. I've used it in claims filed against me when they say "non receipt" and I've been cleared so far even to non confirmed addresses.

 

The one big way I have been ablt to avoid INTL issues is the fact that under no circumstance will I leave feedback for INTL transactions until well after the paypal 45 day transaction period. If they file a claim, I'll leave a negative on eBay because there is no other way for people to know if INTL bidders will scam you or not. I know this may piss off some people, but I send my items out, and if paypal does not protect me for intl stuff, that is the only way I can deviate from the scamming I hate to say. Believe me when I say I have had intl bidders apologize for actually trying to scam me believe it or not. They really don't want people to know about their "activities."

[Albert]

Well, I just spent a few minutes searching around the net and unfortunately there don't really seem to be any definitive answers on why some customs numbers work and others do not. Part of it certainly is that countries need to have a reciprocal arrangement with the US in order to share the tracking of customs numbers (which some do, obviously). It also seems that the first two letters of the number have some sort of significance. I've seen reference to "CP" and "LP" as well as those used by the express mail services (such as "EC" I believe). The numbers I've been using begin with "LJ".

 

..Al

 

 

Albert, I wish I could tell you why it's random like that. I've used it in claims filed against me when they say "non receipt" and I've been cleared so far even to non confirmed addresses.

That's good to know as far as PayPal is concerned. As much as I hate the hassle of filling out customs forms manually, if it'll give me some semblance of tracking and the possibility of not getting the shaft when someone claims non-receipt, it is worth doing. Fortunately the post office I go to is not very busy so when I do need to drop off international packages that require some type of clerk intervention, it still goes pretty quickly. I may experiment with a few packages to see what the tracking information looks like.

 

The one big way I have been ablt to avoid INTL issues is the fact that under no circumstance will I leave feedback for INTL transactions until well after the paypal 45 day transaction period. If they file a claim, I'll leave a negative on eBay because there is no other way for people to know if INTL bidders will scam you or not. I know this may piss off some people, but I send my items out, and if paypal does not protect me for intl stuff, that is the only way I can deviate from the scamming I hate to say. Believe me when I say I have had intl bidders apologize for actually trying to scam me believe it or not. They really don't want people to know about their "activities."

Unfortunately for me, most of the transactions I'm dealing with are coming from the AtariAge Store, where no such feedback mechanism exists. Normally I am against holding feedback hostage in this manner, but this seems to me a legitimate reason to do it to help protect yourself from international scam artists.

 

..Al

[djpubba]

I ship about 7-10 international packages a week at work. The trick to getting the tracking is to make sure the clerk scans the package when you drop them off. You don't have to fill out customs forms manually. This makes no difference. The important part is the scanning. If you drop the package in a box, you chances are about 50/50 that it goes straight on a truck without getting scanned. No scan at the origin=no tracking at all.

[Albert]

I ship about 7-10 international packages a week at work. The trick to getting the tracking is to make sure the clerk scans the package when you drop them off. You don't have to fill out customs forms manually. This makes no difference. The important part is the scanning. If you drop the package in a box, you chances are about 50/50 that it goes straight on a truck without getting scanned. No scan at the origin=no tracking at all.

Interesting--I just checked the labels I print to make sure they have the customs number in bar code form. It's a completely new form this year that integrates the postage and customs information, which is nice since you only have to slap one label on the box. Don't even need any airmail stickers now, as there are no more international ground services. Anyway, I also ship several international packages a week and I'll get the clerks to scan them to see if that makes a difference.

 

Thanks,

 

..Al

[djpubba]

The customs form that's a single label is the small package customs form. Anything over two pounds (or is it one pound?) needs the four page customs form but it's still pretty easy to fill out electronically. Forget doing the manual ones. Holy cripes, we'd have to charge extra handling if we had to fill those beasts out every time.

[Albert]

The customs form that's a single label is the small package customs form. Anything over two pounds (or is it one pound?) needs the four page customs form but it's still pretty easy to fill out electronically. Forget doing the manual ones. Holy cripes, we'd have to charge extra handling if we had to fill those beasts out every time.

Four pounds. Fortunately most of the packages I ship are under one pound--it's rare that I need to ship packages over four pounds (but it happens from time to time).

 

..Al