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Spent an hour or so playing it last night. Quite addictive. I did consistenly die though when maneuvering on the top half of the screen. It would be nice if Yoomp controlled more like Gyruss in this regard, with the directional controls dynamically adapting to your position on the screen.

 

Also, it seemed like a waste of all those nice border graphics to have them just randomly selected on each life. There should be a fixed border graphic for each level, to give players more of a sense of progression, like how KLAX treated its decorative graphics.

 

It'd be interesting to see this engine used in other types of games. Like maybe a tube version of Tetris, or a simplified version of STUN Runner.

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What settings are needed to make this game run on atari800 under Linux? All I get is a white screen with a progressbar that stops at about 4/5 bar length and doesn't grow or do other stuffs :/

 

That progress bar is normal, but if it's stopping like that you may not have the emulator set with enough memory, this game, IIRC, requires more than 64k, I think at least a 130XE or upgraded compatible. I have my emulator set exactly the same as my real computer, which is 320-576K(Rambo), PAL, Stereo, XL/XE OS.

 

EDIT: Actually, I was just looking at the XEX file version and it says it's only 24k, I think I'm mixing Yoomp!'s memory size up with one of the other contest winners...maybe you don't have the emulator set for PAL or something?

Edited by Gunstar

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P.S. to the author of Yoomp!: This games seems to be made for paddle controls though, like Tempest 2000 on the Jaguar (which has a code to enable paddle controls). I hope to see another version or sequel of Yoomp! that adds in the option for paddle (actually the driving controller type, not the breakout type) controllers. It would make controls easier and more intuitive, but levels could also be more complicated or "extreme" to still balance gameplay. Also, maybe a tunnel shooter or tunnel racing game could be made with this engine... :cool: 8-bit Atari S.T.U.N Runner anyone?!?

Currently, Yoomp! is designed that holding a joystick left/right takes you exactly one tile left/right in one jump. It's a design choice, and we like it, although we know, that larger sideways movement would make it easier.

 

With paddles, the maximum sideways speed would need to be larger, since we can't expect people to rotate the paddles at maximum speed all the time. That on the other hand would give paddle users some advantage over joystick users in some situations.

 

Finally, if I recall correctly, paddles don't allow continuous rotation in one direction, right? They stop at some moment, and you can only go back. For me that's prohibitive for Yoomp!, as it doesn't allow going "in spiral" :)

 

There are two types of paddles, the Breakout! style that stop and the INDY 500 style that go all the way around, I was refering to the INDY 500 style, which are also like how arcade Tempest and Jaguar's Tempest 2000 work; which is very similiar in joystick mode to Yoomp!'s controls and I think would make Yoomp! similiar to Tempest 2000 paddle controllers if it had the option. I suggest, if you can, get a Jaguar and a copy of Tempest 2000, and check out the bonus level called "green path." But it's just a suggestion( Yoomp! with paddles), if you don't want to do it I guess you won't. Of course if you've never played Tempest 2000 with joystick/pad or paddle controls then you wouldn't realize how similiar the control is, and how much better T2K is with paddles, and I think Yoomp! could be better with paddles too.

 

TrailBlazer would have been good with paddles too, but nothing compared to the potential with a tunnel game like Yoomp! But Trailblazer got by without paddles so I guess Yoomp! can too.

Edited by Gunstar

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I been playing more Yoomp! again today, it sure is addictive. I'm up to level 7 now, MIX x4. It's nice to know I still have another 14 levels to play through. Does this game restart after level 21 with level 1 at a harder difficulty, e.g., faster?

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Try playing it in the emulator with setting "Atari -> Performance -> Speed" at 120%.

 

That should give you the feel of how much harder it will be on NTSC (assuming no speed adjustments are made).

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I been playing more Yoomp! again today, it sure is addictive. I'm up to level 7 now, MIX x4. It's nice to know I still have another 14 levels to play through. Does this game restart after level 21 with level 1 at a harder difficulty, e.g., faster?

No, it's the end after level 21. But you get extra bonus points (yay!) and a nice little end-of-the-game screen :)

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Just a small question... would it be possible to rotate the tunnel itself isntead of moving ball around? Is the engine able to do that?

Yes, it is possible to rotate the tunnel, not exactly with this engine, but with a very similar one.

However, it would only work with 128KB RAM. And it would make rendering a bit slower, making the tunnel animation work in 3 frames (2 currently).

A cart version could work with rotating tunnel with 64KB.

 

But, I really wanted the game to work on 64K. And I actually like the fact that you're sometimes upside down. I haven't played it, but I've heard Super Mario Galaxy has levels like this, with varying gravity direction :)

 

I suspect a rotating tunnel would need a great deal more RAM for textures.

It's actually code memory, not texture memory. We use huge generated code for fast tunnel rendering (see on emulator in monitor, by listing memory at e.g. $1000).

Edited by eru

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Try playing it in the emulator with setting "Atari -> Performance -> Speed" at 120%.

 

That should give you the feel of how much harder it will be on NTSC (assuming no speed adjustments are made).

Nope, the NTSC version is modified, so the gameplay resembles the PAL version almost perfectly.

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Just a small question... would it be possible to rotate the tunnel itself isntead of moving ball around? Is the engine able to do that?

Yes, it is possible to rotate the tunnel, not exactly with this engine, but with a very similar one.

However, it would only work with 128KB RAM. And it would make rendering a bit slower, making the tunnel animation work in 3 frames (2 currently).

A cart version could work with rotating tunnel with 64KB.

 

But, I really wanted the game to work on 64K. And I actually like the fact that you're sometimes upside down. I haven't played it, but I've heard Super Mario Galaxy has levels like this, with varying gravity direction :)

 

I suspect a rotating tunnel would need a great deal more RAM for textures.

It's actually code memory, not texture memory. We use huge generated code for fast tunnel rendering (see on emulator in monitor, by listing memory at e.g. $1000).

 

While I do think the tunnel rotation would be cool, I think maybe that should be used in another game, I too, like the parts of this game which force you to play "upside-down", which is the way Tempest 2000 (Atari Jaguar) works with it's webs and bonus levels. In this particulair game I think non-rotation adds to the fun, rotation would make it less challenging.

 

As a side note to the programmers of Yoomp! : though I think this game would benefit with paddle controls, I LOVE this game, it is one of my new all-time favorite A8 games. Unfortuantely, I'm already at level 12 (the levels keep getting better and cooloer guys! Kudos!), I really hope you guys get a LARGER version of this game released with more than the 21 levels, I'll probably have this game beat in a day or two since I'm so addicted! And I haven't even had a chance to play it on my real Atari yet! I installed an Atari emulator on my PC just to try this game; I've nver played an Atari game on an emulator before!(and as soon as I get my 1200XL fixed, I won't ever again). Though even if I finish the game, it'll be nice to finally play it with a joystick instead of keyboard, and I think the stereo seperation will be MUCH better on my real Atari than on the emulator (from past experience), the emulator doesn't sound like it's got good stereo seperation, but just playing both channels out of both speakers...

Edited by Gunstar

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Try playing it in the emulator with setting "Atari -> Performance -> Speed" at 120%.

 

That should give you the feel of how much harder it will be on NTSC (assuming no speed adjustments are made).

Nope, the NTSC version is modified, so the gameplay resembles the PAL version almost perfectly.

 

If you chose too, could you modify the NTSC version to have a choice of PAL or NTSC speeds? Like a difficuly level? Instead of just slowing it down so NTSC runs the same speed as PAL? Just curious though, as my 1200XL is already modified with a PAL Antic, so the NTSC version not necessary for me.

Edited by Gunstar

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If you chose too, could you modify the NTSC version to have a choice of PAL or NTSC speeds? Like a difficuly level? Instead of just slowing it down so NTSC runs the same speed as PAL? Just curious though, as my 1200XL is already modified with a PAL Antic, so the NTSC version not necessary for me.

Unfortunatelly, the NTSC and PAL versions differ significantly, and they can't be released as a single file. I wished - that would mean I have much less work to do :)

You should be able to play NTSC version on a PAL machine (it will be slower then), but not the other way around.

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Any plan to porting to C64 computer?

I would love someone to port it to C64, and I can help a bit, but I know next to nothing about programming C64.

Still, the hardest part - the engine - is probably portable with minimal changes.

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Eru,

 

I think I found one other bug which you could consider for upcoming patch releases.

 

Today while playing Yoomp! my joystick broke ... and I think this is the best compliment one can do :) However, for a short while I tried playing a couple of rounds with the keyboard. but it is very unfair to play with that instead.

 

While pressing SHIFT to jump AND to move left or right seems to be not supported. I guess, this was one of the very reasons why you've choosen SHIFT for trigger, because this way the Atari supports multiple keys.

 

grtx,

\twh

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If you chose too, could you modify the NTSC version to have a choice of PAL or NTSC speeds? Like a difficuly level? Instead of just slowing it down so NTSC runs the same speed as PAL? Just curious though, as my 1200XL is already modified with a PAL Antic, so the NTSC version not necessary for me.

Unfortunatelly, the NTSC and PAL versions differ significantly, and they can't be released as a single file. I wished - that would mean I have much less work to do :)

You should be able to play NTSC version on a PAL machine (it will be slower then), but not the other way around.

 

Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough. You stated that the NTSC version was being adjusted in order to be the same speed as the PAL version, right? I was wondering if the NTSC version ONLY could be made then to run as fast or faster than the PAL version.

Edited by Gunstar

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This game is definitely one of the best games to appear on the atari. Great job, to the authors.

 

Here are my compliments/suggestions for future releases/versions, after several weeks of play:

 

- x-rays music is great, as usual. he's definitely one of the best composers for the a8.

- the in-game theme is great. but, when you finish a level you get 3 tunes in fairly close succession. the end-level, begin-level, and in-game music, which all have a different musical flavor, seems a little too much. maybe just playing the music from the end-level, for end-level and begin level would be a little bit easier on the senses. something to think about in terms of "fine-tuning" the game.

 

- i would like to see the option for Gyruss style controls, as in the early beta. i find control at the top of the tunnel to be disorienting at times. Gyruss style controls seem more natural, and i have always loved playing Gyruss for that reason, in part. (i also like the suggestion for using paddles. this may be an even better idea for easy control)

 

- i like the non-square tiles. they make for an intersting change mid-level. i think it would look good to have some levels that use these types of tiles exclusively too (maybe they already exist, i haven't finished yet. if so, disregard this comment)

- multi-colored levels would be good. the "shades of a color" look is great, but it would also be nice to see some mix of colors on a single level. maybe there could be a version that has this type of look, or a series of levels (if this is done in later levels, please disregard also)

 

- having levels where "special tiles" or "objects" are required to be bounced on for level completion. this could also be something used to "beef up" levels, after the entire game has been completed, to add difficulty.

 

Once again, great job, and congratulations on winning the ABBUC contest.

Edited by MrFish

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Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough. You stated that the NTSC version was being adjusted in order to be the same speed as the PAL version, right? I was wondering if the NTSC version ONLY could be made then to run as fast or faster than the PAL version.

There are two 'speeds' in the game

- how fast a single tunnel animation frame takes - this is 2 frames on PAL and 3 frames on NTSC

- how fast a single ball jump takes - this is pretty much arbitrary

In principle, by playing with the second parameter, we can get almost arbitrary speed for both PAL and NTSC. However, there are very many elements in game that need to be adjusted to a different speed: tunnel rendering, ball control, progress bar rendering, music... This makes it very very hard (next to impossible, especially because of the need to adjust music) to have different speeds in one binary. I will not work on it, sorry :(

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Well,

I love the game and finished 5 or 6 levels already. The weird controls at the upper half of the tunnel sometimes drive me crazy, but I guess after a while I get used to that. Why create two different versions !? I would go for one version (maybe the forthcoming NTSC version) that works on both PAL machines (slower) and on NTSC machines (faster)... -Andreas Koch.

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3 frame render time would translate to 10 FPS on NTSC but only 8.33 on PAL. Just try running it in the emulator at 70% speed to get a feel for what it would play like (and even then it would be a touch slower on real hardware).

 

I think it's fine as is on PAL - no point downgrading it just for the sake of one version. Not as if it's being manufactured and sent to shops or anything.

 

I didn't really have a problem with the controls. I don't see how a paddle controller could be worked.

 

Either you'd get lag waiting for the ball to match the paddle's position, or you'd have a situation where you could do 300 degree leaps by rotating quickly, which would ruin the challenge of the game.

 

A mouse/trackball/driving controller setup could be made to work, but it would have inherant problems too.

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When I say 'frame' I meant VBL-frames, hence TV 'half-frames', 50/s in PAL, 60/s in NTSC.

Yoomp! has 25 FPS in PAL and will have 20 FPS in NTSC.

 

And indeed, playing the NTSC version on PAL just kills all the fun. Similarly, playing the unmodified PAL version on NTSC, but slower, was just terrible. What the current PAL version offers now is pretty nicely balanced, and the NTSC version tries to provide the same.

 

And about controls... c'mon, all you're suggesting is sooo 20 century - next version will be brain-controlled :P

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Oop. My calculations were a bit out there.

 

Should be 20 and 16.66.

 

From memory, 15-18 frames per second is right at that perception point where you can really tell that something is jerky animation.

 

Also at the point where modern FPS games become near unplayable and you have to splash out for a better graphics card (or turn everthing down).

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i guess eru will do the best job for NTSC... ;) and there are not many polish games/demos which actually work on ntsc perfect...

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Oh... if you are going for extra version for NTSC anyway...xray could go for ntsc musx anyway...but is there a possibility in RMT for doing "ntsc" msx?

 

did you use RMT? and who did the sound fx?

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Any plan to porting to C64 computer?

I would love someone to port it to C64, and I can help a bit, but I know next to nothing about programming C64.

Still, the hardest part - the engine - is probably portable with minimal changes.

Any interest in porting it to th Jaguar!?!? id love to have it on the Jaguar buddy! :cool:

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did you use RMT? and who did the sound fx?

No, it's MPT. FX are made by X-Ray of course. To write music in MPT for NTSC, you just run MPT on an NTSC atari :)

As for RMT, I don't know, but I guess it would need some switch for NTSC.

 

Any interest in porting it to th Jaguar!?!? id love to have it on the Jaguar buddy! :cool:

If someone is willing to port it, go ahead. But don't look at me :)

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