The end of future classic gaming?

[Paul Humbug]

Only recently that I research modern/next gen consoles and games and I get the impression that gameplay shifts heavily to the online/massive online multiplayer scenarios.

 

So, if the better/best gameplay with many "next-gen" games is to be had online, what happens with those games in 10 years or so, when they might be called and regarded as classics?

 

I assume servers won´t be online this long/forever.

 

Hence, gameplay would suffer a lot and if the shift to online gaming continues, future "classic" games might become unplayable at all cauz they might not contain a satisfying single player mode at all?

 

Are there already games today you mostly only enjoy online and the games would loose much of their appeal once people leave for other games?

[SRGilbert]

That is probably one of the reasons the Dreamcast is largely forgotten. On the other hand, features like Virtual Console will probably continue after the Wii, with popular multiplayer games continually ported over to newer systems.

 

For that matter, the same can be said for a lot of PC games that have come about in the last 10 years or so.

 

We are becoming a society of disposable games and consoles. Of course, nobody notices because most companies just release the same games over and over again anyway.

Edited January 6, 2008 by SRGilbert

[telengard]

Yeah this *will* be an issue. Look how much work it was just to get the Quantum Link backend working again for us to play with.

Things just aren't as tangible as they used to be. You now buy stuff and never see a physical copy of it. Even worse it's usually strapped with some form of DRM which limits it even more.

Luckily what is classic *to me* is not so complicated or cumbersome other than old hardware dying.

 

~telengard

[mos6507]

I agree. A lot of the history of videogames is going to be locked away as unplayable because there aren't any servers that can make them run anymore.

[SRGilbert]

Things just aren't as tangible as they used to be. You now buy stuff and never see a physical copy of it. ~telengard

 

That's also a good point, the kind of media the system uses. Believe it or not, 2007 was the first year I've owned systems that use disks for media! Until then, it was only carts. One thing I've quickly noticed is how difficult it is to find games for them, then when you do, hoping they are in playable condition. Couple this with the fact that consoles with CD based drives are absolutely going to fail MUCH sooner than any cart based system.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, I can see a generartion of systems that use no physical media at all, with all games being direct downloads.

[Segataritensoftii]

Things just aren't as tangible as they used to be. You now buy stuff and never see a physical copy of it. ~telengard

On the other end of the spectrum, I can see a generartion of systems that use no physical media at all, with all games being direct downloads.

If that happens, I will be very upset. In my opinion, every console needs a media slot for some form of preservation. If I were making a console, I'd offer players the oppertunity to buy discs with all the downloads that were wiped from the main server in the past six months, and also let them use their console as a server for online gaming, something which, unfortunately, probably won't happen.

[Albert]

This is one of the big problems I have with Valve's "Steam" system. Any games you purchase online and download to your computer are tied to your account and you cannot resell them. The games connect to Valve's servers when you play them so if they go away at some point in the future, anything you've purchased is pretty much an electronic paperweight. They've done this with games you physically purchase at the store, also, such as Half-Life 2. You have to register the game online and it has to be authenticated by their server. This ties your physical game to their servers, which prevents you from reselling the game, or hell, even GIVING it to someone else. I will never buy another Steam game for this reason alone (plus, I got burned by not even being able to get HL2 to run properly on my two PCs, so I was out $50 and a game I could not enjoy). This is going to create a mess down the road when people want to play these games in 10 years should the original companies be gone or if their servers are offline or have changed significantly enough where "legacy" games no longer function.

 

..Al

[telengard]

This is one of the big problems I have with Valve's "Steam" system. Any games you purchase online and download to your computer are tied to your account and you cannot resell them. The games connect to Valve's servers when you play them so if they go away at some point in the future, anything you've purchased is pretty much an electronic paperweight. They've done this with games you physically purchase at the store, also, such as Half-Life 2. You have to register the game online and it has to be authenticated by their server. This ties your physical game to their servers, which prevents you from reselling the game, or hell, even GIVING it to someone else. I will never buy another Steam game for this reason alone (plus, I got burned by not even being able to get HL2 to run properly on my two PCs, so I was out $50 and a game I could not enjoy). This is going to create a mess down the road when people want to play these games in 10 years should the original companies be gone or if their servers are offline or have changed significantly enough where "legacy" games no longer function.

 

..Al

 

 

The same *exact* thing seems to be present w/ Xbox Live Arcade games. They "phone home" when you start them. No connectivity, no gaming. I believe this came to a head over the holidays with the long outage.

I like having a physical piece of property although having all these disk/cart images saves me from having a lot of space. These are in no way hindered like the other things mentioned in this thread.

 

~telengard

[Albert]

The same *exact* thing seems to be present w/ Xbox Live Arcade games. They "phone home" when you start them. No connectivity, no gaming. I believe this came to a head over the holidays with the long outage.

I haven't purchased any Xbox Live games yet, except for the collection that includes Bejeweled that comes in disc form (so presumably you don't need to connect to "Xbox Live" to play the games). This sort of "DRM" infestation of games is a big hindrance. Fortunately the music industry is starting to get away from it, and now all the major studios are going to offer DRM-free music. It's probably going to take the game industry a long time to come to the same conclusion.

 

..Al

[Atariboy]

You don't need to connect to Xbox Live to play XBLA games, I play offline just fine all the time. The issue is if your playing on a system the games weren't originally bought on, you must be signed into Xbox Live with your account in order to prevent piracy.

[MCHufnagel]

In regard to passing games on, Steam does suck. The service aspect of it is nice though. I can play my games on several different PC's without having the game with me. I just need to log into Steam and download what I want to play. Valve did say that they would release the games for offline play if Steam ever was to get shut down. But really, if a service is having financial problems, would that service even be concerned about doing something like that?

 

To be honest, all of the games I have on Steam were freebees anyway. I downloaded Sam & Max Season 1, episode 4 when it was being given away and HL2 was gifted to me. I have now downloaded 10 different mods for HL2. So I have no financial risk invested in Steam. Simular situation with XBLA. I have 13 games, with only 7 being paid for. You can tell I also frequent the Cheap Ass Gamer forums.

 

But I too think that downloadable games will affect the future of classic gaming. With an actual game to pass around or collect, there will be less interest in this hobby.

[Scumdogg]

That is probably one of the reasons the Dreamcast is largely forgotten. On the other hand, features like Virtual Console will probably continue after the Wii, with popular multiplayer games continually ported over to newer systems.

 

 

I have an enormous Dreamcast collection and only like two of my games are really affected by the loss of online capability...Phantasy Star Online and Unreal Tournament. 99% of the games released for that system are completely self-contained...nothing like today where there are SO many Xbox and Xbox 360 games that are almost completely pointless without an internet connection.

 

If the Dreamcast is forgotten at all, it's because Sega rolled over like the little girls they are at the first sign of competition. It's still a great system though, one of my all-time favorites.

[telengard]

You don't need to connect to Xbox Live to play XBLA games, I play offline just fine all the time. The issue is if your playing on a system the games weren't originally bought on, you must be signed into Xbox Live with your account in order to prevent piracy.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I frequent the xbox.com forums and there were a LOT of complaints about not being able to play due to the DRM so I assumed that it was something inherent w/ XBLA games.

 

~telengard

[SRGilbert]

That is probably one of the reasons the Dreamcast is largely forgotten. On the other hand, features like Virtual Console will probably continue after the Wii, with popular multiplayer games continually ported over to newer systems.

I have an enormous Dreamcast collection and only like two of my games are really affected by the loss of online capability...Phantasy Star Online and Unreal Tournament. 99% of the games released for that system are completely self-contained...nothing like today where there are SO many Xbox and Xbox 360 games that are almost completely pointless without an internet connection.

 

If the Dreamcast is forgotten at all, it's because Sega rolled over like the little girls they are at the first sign of competition. It's still a great system though, one of my all-time favorites.

Well, I did say it was just ONE of the reasons! Don't get me wrong, I love my DC too, but I seem to recall a lot of the hype was based around the online capabilities of the system.

 

For the record, here is a list of modem games showing at least 20 of them with their online features now useless.

 

LINK

Which really isn't too bad considering.

[spacecadet]

That is probably one of the reasons the Dreamcast is largely forgotten.

 

This is seriously the first time I have ever seen the Dreamcast described this way.

 

If anything, it has gotten more popular with age. People who never owned one and have never played a Dreamcast game sit around on modern gaming discussion boards and pretend they have so they seem "cool" (I'm a regular Kotaku commenter, and I see it there all the time).

 

Anyway, there was only one major game on the system that I know of that didn't even really have an offline component, and that was Phantasy Star Online. It has been re-released on other systems, though I understand the DC original was the best.

 

For the record, here is a list of modem games showing at least 20 of them with their online features now useless.

 

"Online features" is different from "online game". Even some of the alleged "online games" at the link you posted aren't... I never even played Sega Swirl online, for example, and ditto for 4X4 Evo (I do own both). These are just games with an online component. The offline component continues to work fine.

 

The only game in that list other than PSO that I'd call an "online game" is Quake 3 Arena, but even that can be played offline (though it's not nearly as fun).

 

I do think it's true that true online games will just not be played 10 years or so in the future... but oh well, that's the developers' loss.

 

I don't, however, think it's true that we'll *only* be playing online games eventually. Who knows, games like Little Big Planet could end up tomorrow's "classic" games.

Edited January 8, 2008 by spacecadet

[SRGilbert]

That is probably one of the reasons the Dreamcast is largely forgotten.

 

This is seriously the first time I have ever seen the Dreamcast described this way.

 

Look I wasn't trying to bash the DC, I like it, I really do.

 

I guess my only real point was to show what happens when a console is off the market and what you can expect in the way of support when that happens, and the DC is probably the most recent indicator of that.

[Asaki]

So, if the better/best gameplay with many "next-gen" games is to be had online, what happens with those games in 10 years or so, when they might be called and regarded as classics?

 

I assume servers won´t be online this long/forever.

 

Being online isn't the problem, the problem is that these online games are completely closed source. These are games that have a central server you have to connect to, and no alternatives otherwise. Once that server shuts down, you're prettymuch screwed.

 

Whereas there are games like DOOM, which is more than ten years old now...you can set up your own personal server whenever you like and start fragging (or join someone else's).

 

I wish more games let you set up your own servers, especially when all the public servers get saturated with cheaters and other undesirables >_< I don't even play DS games online anymore, because it just isn't worth it.

[Video]

You don't need to connect to Xbox Live to play XBLA games, I play offline just fine all the time. The issue is if your playing on a system the games weren't originally bought on, you must be signed into Xbox Live with your account in order to prevent piracy.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I frequent the xbox.com forums and there were a LOT of complaints about not being able to play due to the DRM so I assumed that it was something inherent w/ XBLA games.

 

~telengard

I've never downloaded an XBL game, but I got a couple, (they come on memory cards, some discs, and OXM probably has them)

 

I'll never actively support online required gameing (I like my classic collection to much, and when the media is online, or requires online to support it, that's taken away)

 

Just a question though, you can save XBLgames to the memory card (or at least two games I've gotten were on memory cards) can't you download a new game to the memrory card and eliminate the whole 'hook to XBL' thing? After all, if the original hardware (the memory card) is still there, would the system matter? For that matter, if you just take the drive with you, can't you use that on another X0box?

[MacbthPSW]

Yeah, this is at least a partial concern for me. I bought Auto Assault on clearance about a year ago, but didn't try it right away because I was concerned about wasting too much time on it. Then I heard they were shutting down the servers so right away I tried to install it and get online, but by then they weren't accepting any new members; so I never got to try it at all. I was even willing to pay at that point just to say I had experienced it (I'm into post-apocalypse / vehicular combat games) but there just wasn't any way. Now the game is gone for good.

 

And I just saw another copy of Auto Assault in a clearance bin here last week - totally useless now; what a waste of someone's $5 or $10!

[Lord Helmet]

You don't need to connect to Xbox Live to play XBLA games, I play offline just fine all the time. The issue is if your playing on a system the games weren't originally bought on, you must be signed into Xbox Live with your account in order to prevent piracy.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I frequent the xbox.com forums and there were a LOT of complaints about not being able to play due to the DRM so I assumed that it was something inherent w/ XBLA games.

 

~telengard

I've never downloaded an XBL game, but I got a couple, (they come on memory cards, some discs, and OXM probably has them)

 

I'll never actively support online required gameing (I like my classic collection to much, and when the media is online, or requires online to support it, that's taken away)

 

Just a question though, you can save XBLgames to the memory card (or at least two games I've gotten were on memory cards) can't you download a new game to the memrory card and eliminate the whole 'hook to XBL' thing? After all, if the original hardware (the memory card) is still there, would the system matter? For that matter, if you just take the drive with you, can't you use that on another X0box?

 

Xbox Live Arcade games can be saved to the memory card, but they are tied to your gamertag/console.

 

As long as you are playing them on the console that you downloaded them on, you do not have to be connected to xbox live to play them. However, if your console dies, or you get a new one, you can re-download them, but you must be connected to Live to play them (they are connected to your gamertag). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.

[[d2f]Iggy*SJB]

This is one of the big problems I have with Valve's "Steam" system. Any games you purchase online and download to your computer are tied to your account and you cannot resell them. The games connect to Valve's servers when you play them so if they go away at some point in the future, anything you've purchased is pretty much an electronic paperweight. They've done this with games you physically purchase at the store, also, such as Half-Life 2. You have to register the game online and it has to be authenticated by their server. This ties your physical game to their servers, which prevents you from reselling the game, or hell, even GIVING it to someone else. I will never buy another Steam game for this reason alone (plus, I got burned by not even being able to get HL2 to run properly on my two PCs, so I was out $50 and a game I could not enjoy). This is going to create a mess down the road when people want to play these games in 10 years should the original companies be gone or if their servers are offline or have changed significantly enough where "legacy" games no longer function.

 

..Al

 

Actually, once you have "activated" the game, you can make back-ups as needed. I do agree with you about the lack of resaleability. That part does suck.

Do you have any idea why HL2 wouldn't work on your PCs? I haven't had any problems with it on either of my newer machines.

[christianscott27]

Does this mean that in 15 years there wont be some 20 Game Plug n' Play of PS1 titles?

[tremoloman2006]

Whereas there are games like DOOM, which is more than ten years old now...you can set up your own personal server whenever you like and start fragging (or join someone else's).

 

I wish more games let you set up your own servers, especially when all the public servers get saturated with cheaters and other undesirables >_< I don't even play DS games online anymore, because it just isn't worth it.

Doom was such a groundbreaking game. I think I spent almost as much time play against my best friend for hours on end. I remember '94-'96 modem games became a big deal. Duke Nukem 3D was the last multi-player game I enjoyed. After Quake came out, all the cheaters and the complexity of the game just completely turned me off.

 

I'll take a game of Doom or Duke Nukem 3D anytime over what is out there now. Just like the 2600... might not be as pretty, but its about GAMEPLAY.

[Gemini]

For all the reasons mentioned so far I have avoided buying digital-only things which only work when connected to a network. Or even with tangible products, if I can't use it offline, or if I have to connect to a network to use it, I don't want it, because it means there will be a point in the future where I will no longer be able to play it and it will become a deadweight in my collection.

 

It's like comparing real estate and cars. Houses, for the most part, will appreciate in value in the long run. New cars, just months after purchase, will depreciate like crazy. Tangible games that you can play without having to connect to servers or anything can go either way, but regardless will still have value. (Even Missile Command for the 2600 was still worth 95 cents as a cartrdige only at the Atari2600.com store.) MMORPGs or other network-requiring products are instantly worthless from a monetary point of view the moment you buy them.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Gemini

[Rik]

This is one of the big problems I have with Valve's "Steam" system. Any games you purchase online and download to your computer are tied to your account and you cannot resell them. The games connect to Valve's servers when you play them so if they go away at some point in the future, anything you've purchased is pretty much an electronic paperweight. They've done this with games you physically purchase at the store, also, such as Half-Life 2. You have to register the game online and it has to be authenticated by their server. This ties your physical game to their servers, which prevents you from reselling the game, or hell, even GIVING it to someone else. I will never buy another Steam game for this reason alone (plus, I got burned by not even being able to get HL2 to run properly on my two PCs, so I was out $50 and a game I could not enjoy). This is going to create a mess down the road when people want to play these games in 10 years should the original companies be gone or if their servers are offline or have changed significantly enough where "legacy" games no longer function.

 

..Al

Thanx for the info,I had no idea!You know,this authenticity check is pure bull.I was going to get HL-2,but not if its going to be a hassle like you described.Everything good,always has to end,by crap like this.To hell with valve then!

Edited January 15, 2008 by Rik