Surround Sound

[Broonale]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

[Gunstar]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I'm not going to list any at the moment becuase I'm too lazy right now, but there are a lot of different types of sound for Jaguar games, including stereo surround, virtual, 3D stereo, Q-sound(surround with 2-7 speakers) and mono. Many games have varying degrees of stereo/surround and varying quality depending on the audio format(s) chosen to use in a game. Most games do not say/list exactly what the sound quality is, IS2 just happens to give a choice between stereo and surround so that one is known. But there are more games with beyond stereo only sound, with music, sound effects or both. For example, Skyhammer has only stereo sound effects, but the music is in some type of surround. The fun part is checking out all the games and discovering which ones have better than stereo sound and what enhancements you notice over monuaral or stereo sound. But even stereo or 3D stereo will sound incredible through a surround sound system over just normal stereo. It's an automatic upgrade to quadraphonic stereo from 2-channel stereo source when pumped through a surround system.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Gunstar

[midnight8]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

[Gunstar]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

 

From my experience, sound systems only play through their various speakers what the source audio is made for. The one exception is a stereo a few features like virtual surround or stadium sound, etc. But these only play the front channels through the rear and is for all intents and purposes just good old quadraphonic stereo (stereo from 4 speakers; FR/FL RR/RL). If it's different sounds coming out of the rear speakers than the front, then it is the Jaguar/game producing it most likely. I have noticed though that some games, like NBA JAM on the Jag that have "3D sound" with a format like Q-sound, while they do create a 3D effect from 2 speakers, they will also sound like surround sound with something like Virtual surround or in actual surround sound mode. AvP probably used a stereo enhancer like Q-sound or similair so some stuff comes out the rear surround, but I do think Battlemorph is using some form of surround. Q-sound is capable of evreything from stereo/3D/VSurround in it's format: http://www.qsound.com/index.htm

Virtual surround is also enhanced if channeled through a true surround sound system, but not quite as distictive. The Jaguar is capable of all types of mono/stereo/3D/surround with it's DSP. Q-sound was one of the supported formats that was/is used for Jaguar sound through the DSP at a lower bandwidth than true surround with quality results, but the Jaguar DSP is quite capable of true surround too.

[BuddyBuddies]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

 

From my experience, sound systems only play through their various speakers what the source audio is made for. The one exception is a stereo a few features like virtual surround or stadium sound, etc. But these only play the front channels through the rear and is for all intents and purposes just good old quadraphonic stereo (stereo from 4 speakers; FR/FL RR/RL). If it's different sounds coming out of the rear speakers than the front, then it is the Jaguar/game producing it most likely. I have noticed though that some games, like NBA JAM on the Jag that have "3D sound" with a format like Q-sound, while they do create a 3D effect from 2 speakers, they will also sound like surround sound with something like Virtual surround or in actual surround sound mode. AvP probably used a stereo enhancer like Q-sound or similair so some stuff comes out the rear surround, but I do think Battlemorph is using some form of surround. Q-sound is capable of evreything from stereo/3D/VSurround in it's format: http://www.qsound.com/index.htm

Virtual surround is also enhanced if channeled through a true surround sound system, but not quite as distictive. The Jaguar is capable of all types of mono/stereo/3D/surround with it's DSP. Q-sound was one of the supported formats that was/is used for Jaguar sound through the DSP at a lower bandwidth than true surround with quality results, but the Jaguar DSP is quite capable of true surround too.

didnt q-sound have an article with the Jaguar in a magazine?? i cant remember exactly what it was though......

[Gunstar]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

 

From my experience, sound systems only play through their various speakers what the source audio is made for. The one exception is a stereo a few features like virtual surround or stadium sound, etc. But these only play the front channels through the rear and is for all intents and purposes just good old quadraphonic stereo (stereo from 4 speakers; FR/FL RR/RL). If it's different sounds coming out of the rear speakers than the front, then it is the Jaguar/game producing it most likely. I have noticed though that some games, like NBA JAM on the Jag that have "3D sound" with a format like Q-sound, while they do create a 3D effect from 2 speakers, they will also sound like surround sound with something like Virtual surround or in actual surround sound mode. AvP probably used a stereo enhancer like Q-sound or similair so some stuff comes out the rear surround, but I do think Battlemorph is using some form of surround. Q-sound is capable of evreything from stereo/3D/VSurround in it's format: http://www.qsound.com/index.htm

Virtual surround is also enhanced if channeled through a true surround sound system, but not quite as distictive. The Jaguar is capable of all types of mono/stereo/3D/surround with it's DSP. Q-sound was one of the supported formats that was/is used for Jaguar sound through the DSP at a lower bandwidth than true surround with quality results, but the Jaguar DSP is quite capable of true surround too.

didnt q-sound have an article with the Jaguar in a magazine?? i cant remember exactly what it was though......

Yes, there was, actually more than one, but here's one (am I a scanning madman or WHAT?!? )

Edited January 11, 2008 by Gunstar

[BuddyBuddies]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

 

From my experience, sound systems only play through their various speakers what the source audio is made for. The one exception is a stereo a few features like virtual surround or stadium sound, etc. But these only play the front channels through the rear and is for all intents and purposes just good old quadraphonic stereo (stereo from 4 speakers; FR/FL RR/RL). If it's different sounds coming out of the rear speakers than the front, then it is the Jaguar/game producing it most likely. I have noticed though that some games, like NBA JAM on the Jag that have "3D sound" with a format like Q-sound, while they do create a 3D effect from 2 speakers, they will also sound like surround sound with something like Virtual surround or in actual surround sound mode. AvP probably used a stereo enhancer like Q-sound or similair so some stuff comes out the rear surround, but I do think Battlemorph is using some form of surround. Q-sound is capable of evreything from stereo/3D/VSurround in it's format: http://www.qsound.com/index.htm

Virtual surround is also enhanced if channeled through a true surround sound system, but not quite as distictive. The Jaguar is capable of all types of mono/stereo/3D/surround with it's DSP. Q-sound was one of the supported formats that was/is used for Jaguar sound through the DSP at a lower bandwidth than true surround with quality results, but the Jaguar DSP is quite capable of true surround too.

didnt q-sound have an article with the Jaguar in a magazine?? i cant remember exactly what it was though......

Yes, there was, actually more than one, but here's one (am I a scanning madman or WHAT?!? )

ive seen that one buddy,show me some others....thanks bud!

[Gunstar]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

 

From my experience, sound systems only play through their various speakers what the source audio is made for. The one exception is a stereo a few features like virtual surround or stadium sound, etc. But these only play the front channels through the rear and is for all intents and purposes just good old quadraphonic stereo (stereo from 4 speakers; FR/FL RR/RL). If it's different sounds coming out of the rear speakers than the front, then it is the Jaguar/game producing it most likely. I have noticed though that some games, like NBA JAM on the Jag that have "3D sound" with a format like Q-sound, while they do create a 3D effect from 2 speakers, they will also sound like surround sound with something like Virtual surround or in actual surround sound mode. AvP probably used a stereo enhancer like Q-sound or similair so some stuff comes out the rear surround, but I do think Battlemorph is using some form of surround. Q-sound is capable of evreything from stereo/3D/VSurround in it's format: http://www.qsound.com/index.htm

Virtual surround is also enhanced if channeled through a true surround sound system, but not quite as distictive. The Jaguar is capable of all types of mono/stereo/3D/surround with it's DSP. Q-sound was one of the supported formats that was/is used for Jaguar sound through the DSP at a lower bandwidth than true surround with quality results, but the Jaguar DSP is quite capable of true surround too.

didnt q-sound have an article with the Jaguar in a magazine?? i cant remember exactly what it was though......

Yes, there was, actually more than one, but here's one (am I a scanning madman or WHAT?!? )

ive seen that one buddy,show me some others....thanks bud!

 

Sure, after posting about 50 scans already you start getting picky and demanding!

 

I did find this tid-bit from the 'Jaguar journal' an old online Jag rag:

 

-A bit on QSound

A lot of Jaguar gamers have asked about the Jaguar's ability to

integrate Q-Sound effects into software. Q-Sound is a proprietary

method to reproduce sounds so they audibly "appear" to be actually

coming from their original source. This technology effectively

emulates sounds made in front of the listener on a horizontal plane.

In other words, the sounds cannot reveal whether they were made higher

or lower than the listener, but can reproduce sources in front of the

listener at variable distances within almost 180 degrees. I'm sure a

developer can explain it better, but the technology is licensed by

Atari and routines have been distributed to developers to integrate

Q-Sound effects into future games. As I understand it, the routines

work by passing monophonic sound samples to them with parameters that

define the position of the sound source. I think this offers a lot

potential for future development.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Gunstar

[guitarmas]

The Jaguar did not have surround sound. There was a left output channel and a right output channel. This is stereo sound. This is not surround sound.

[Gunstar]

The Jaguar did not have surround sound. There was a left output channel and a right output channel. This is stereo sound. This is not surround sound.

 

Uh, guess what? Surround sound ENCODING can be directed through 2 channels. You just need a surround sound system to DECODE it at the other end! Jaguar has surround sound! IS2 has it for one! IT's Dolby pro-logic surround, not the new digital 7.1, but it's true surround! Got an XBOX or PS2 or 360, etc., etc....on and on? They ALSO only have two channel ouputs (L&R) unless you hook them up through the digital audio line (like available with Xbox), but THEY have surround sound TOO! The encoded surround sound is sent out 2 channels to the surround sound system where it's decoded! Even the SNES has a few games with surround sound!!!

Suggestion; do some research on how surround sound works!

Edited January 11, 2008 by Gunstar

[BuddyBuddies]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

 

I don't know what truly has surround sound but thru my marantz system I get sound from the rears on a v p and battlemorph for sure but I don't know if its the game or the stereo doing it.

 

From my experience, sound systems only play through their various speakers what the source audio is made for. The one exception is a stereo a few features like virtual surround or stadium sound, etc. But these only play the front channels through the rear and is for all intents and purposes just good old quadraphonic stereo (stereo from 4 speakers; FR/FL RR/RL). If it's different sounds coming out of the rear speakers than the front, then it is the Jaguar/game producing it most likely. I have noticed though that some games, like NBA JAM on the Jag that have "3D sound" with a format like Q-sound, while they do create a 3D effect from 2 speakers, they will also sound like surround sound with something like Virtual surround or in actual surround sound mode. AvP probably used a stereo enhancer like Q-sound or similair so some stuff comes out the rear surround, but I do think Battlemorph is using some form of surround. Q-sound is capable of evreything from stereo/3D/VSurround in it's format: http://www.qsound.com/index.htm

Virtual surround is also enhanced if channeled through a true surround sound system, but not quite as distictive. The Jaguar is capable of all types of mono/stereo/3D/surround with it's DSP. Q-sound was one of the supported formats that was/is used for Jaguar sound through the DSP at a lower bandwidth than true surround with quality results, but the Jaguar DSP is quite capable of true surround too.

didnt q-sound have an article with the Jaguar in a magazine?? i cant remember exactly what it was though......

Yes, there was, actually more than one, but here's one (am I a scanning madman or WHAT?!? )

ive seen that one buddy,show me some others....thanks bud!

 

Sure, after posting about 50 scans already you start getting picky and demanding!

 

I did find this tid-bit from the 'Jaguar journal' an old online Jag rag:

 

-A bit on QSound

A lot of Jaguar gamers have asked about the Jaguar's ability to

integrate Q-Sound effects into software. Q-Sound is a proprietary

method to reproduce sounds so they audibly "appear" to be actually

coming from their original source. This technology effectively

emulates sounds made in front of the listener on a horizontal plane.

In other words, the sounds cannot reveal whether they were made higher

or lower than the listener, but can reproduce sources in front of the

listener at variable distances within almost 180 degrees. I'm sure a

developer can explain it better, but the technology is licensed by

Atari and routines have been distributed to developers to integrate

Q-Sound effects into future games. As I understand it, the routines

work by passing monophonic sound samples to them with parameters that

define the position of the sound source. I think this offers a lot

potential for future development.

SWEET!!! thanks buddy! you met my picky and demanding needs! Q-sound Rocks!!

[guitarmas]

The Jaguar did not have surround sound. There was a left output channel and a right output channel. This is stereo sound. This is not surround sound.

 

Uh, guess what? Surround sound ENCODING can be directed through 2 channels. You just need a surround sound system to DECODE it at the other end! Jaguar has surround sound! IS2 has it for one! IT's Dolby pro-logic surround, not the new digital 7.1, but it's true surround! Got an XBOX or PS2 or 360, etc., etc....on and on? They ALSO only have two channel ouputs (L&R) unless you hook them up through the digital audio line (like available with Xbox), but THEY have surround sound TOO! The encoded surround sound is sent out 2 channels to the surround sound system where it's decoded! Even the SNES has a few games with surround sound!!!

Suggestion; do some research on how surround sound works!

 

[Gunstar]

Here are the facts of some different types of surround, the Jaguar uses several types. In combination with Qsound and other techniques like Dolby Pro-Logic II surround this can be expanded into 5.1 analog surround.

 

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~saintc/differen.htm

 

Now, the Dolby Pro-logic surround, though it doesn't specify in that small overview, does in fact send the encoded audio information over the left and right channels to the surround sound system which then decodes them and sends the audio output to the oppropriate speakers as described in the overview. This is 4.1 surround the .1 being the subwoofer if present. There is also 5.1 and 7.1 digital surround formats. 4.1 D Pro-Logic has been around since the late 80's and is even encoded on many old VHS tapes! Also known as STEREO SURROUND (due to the fact that it's all sent through 2 channels!), but it's true surround, just not as focused or distinctive as later surround formats. Just like astronauts use three fixed points in space to determine their location (also known as "triangulation"-the way GPS works with satellites too), it only takes three fixed points of sound source (L, R, REAR) to position sounds within the surround "cone" area which the listener sits in the middle, hence true surround with sounds being place in front to the sides and the rear of the listener in fixed points in space within the audio "cone." DPL surround actually has 4 points of sound including the center channel! Then there is DPL II which the Jaguar can also do that is 5.1 analog surround! (Iron Soldier 2 anyone?)

 

This is to prove to the masses that Guitarmas is wrong. He sent me a PM telling me he's "majoring" in surruond sound at RadioShack...whatever THAT means, since my experiences with RadioShack have proven they (store employees) don't know squat (guess what GM, I have an associates degree from a REAL technical college in electronics, and I learned about surround sound there). (Just in case he can't resist peeking at my response). He also said some sarcastic things (he didn't like being confused with the facts) and told me he was putting me on his ignore list, so not to respond here, but of course I want FACTS to be known, and not fantasies with delusions of granduer by people that don't know what they are talking about, so even though he won't see this reply, the record must be set straight and proven to those who DO want to know the facts and truth. Anyone that has developed on the Jaguar will agree with me as well, I know, they have before. Good luck to Guitarmas in his RadioShack "major!"

One might as well get a degree as a prize out of a Cracker-Jack box!

 

here's and article that explains how surround sound can come from two channels, this is of course REAL OLD-SCHOOL from back when surround sound and quadrophonic stereo were experimental, but is essentially the same as more modern stereo surround encoding:

 

http://www.audiosignal.co.uk/Surround%20so...l%20stereo.html

 

I think the "school of RadioShack" must think surround sound is a recent tech from the past decade or so that is digital only...

 

Lastly, here is a link to how Dolby Pro-Logic II works with a 2-channel source, this is another way the Jaguar's DSP works with 2-channel surround sound: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html

 

The Jaguar is capable of stereo, 4.1 pro-logic stereo surround, 5.1 pro-logic II surround, 3D stereo, Q-sound 3D&Virtual surround and combinations of them as well, all encoded and output through the left and right audio out channels.

 

I'll take RadioShack to school! Too bad Guitarmas will never see this post, and especially the last link to show him the facts and the light. He doesn't want to be confused with the facts though, he'd rather just ignorantly make fun and sarcasisms toward me.

Majoring at RadioShack! LOL I just can't stop laughing about that one! Oh, here's his words combined from the 2 PM's he sent me:

 

"Thanks for the suggestion on surround sound. Since I am majoring in surround sound at my local radio shack, that information will come in quite handy. Thank you gunstar, I bow to your excellence. Oh how great thou art. Dont bother replying to that last message. You have a habit of rubbing me the wrong way. *click click* ignored. Posts and PM's. "

 

I'm sorry I rub him the wrong way with facts...that seems to happen to me a lot, but after a decade and a half of misinformed or ignorant people spreading misinformation about the Jaguar, I like to set the record straight, if you can't handle the truth, tough shit!

 

I make fun of Guitarmas, becuse he attempted to make fun of me. But I have no permanent ill-will toward him, if he want's to ignore me, that is his peragative. I was just correcting him in my first response, he was the one that decided to make fun about something he's not as educated about as he thinks he is, I wasn't attacking him, just attempting to set him straight (at first). Now I've proven my point and am done making fun of him too. All is forgiven by me.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

What games were in surround sound?

 

I really hope it's more than IS2!

 

I just got my Jag wired into my decoder and want to explore!

Getting back on topic, since you've just hooked up your shiny decoder to the Jag, how about you enjoy it and discover for all of us which games have surround or similiar audio enhancements through your decoder. Quite frankly I've forgotten most of which games have what type of sound from my own experience, and currently my game library is lacking due to sales I had to make. I'd like a list of what jag games have better than stereo audio myself. Are you up to the challenge Broonale?

[Broonale]

Not really!

 

You have no idea how drunk I was when I started this thread!

 

I am old enough to remember getting surround sound from VHS movies like Jurassic Park using a stereo VCR hooked up to a Pro Logic decoder.

That was great!

 

We all take Dolby and DTS for granted now!

[KJ4860]

Not really!

 

You have no idea how drunk I was when I started this thread!

 

I am old enough to remember getting surround sound from VHS movies like Jurassic Park using a stereo VCR hooked up to a Pro Logic decoder.

That was great!

 

We all take Dolby and DTS for granted now!

 

a fellow drunk forum poster beats drunk dialing in terms of trouble you get in

[ovalbugmann]

It's really great to have a nice stereo system. I can appreciate nice FULL range sound, high, mid & deep low bass to reproduce any sound authentically. A stereo system is only as good as it's speakers. I get so irritated listening to music on tinny sounding systems with no bass response. In my bedroom I have a three hundred watt amplifier & a 20-level EQ with an Imx expander & image enhancing. The amplifier only has 4 speaker outs so it's basically Quadrophonic sound system , and I have four '70s style , large, 3 1/2 foot tall speaker cabinets hooked up to it - one in each corner of the room. They each have a 4" horn, 8" midrange, and 15" heavily ribbed , LARGE magnet, paper cone sub-woofers. Those suckers are heavy! The frequency response can go very low with these speakers - I love how cars sound on these speakers, very realistic, you can "feel" the sound. I don't have surround sound, but would like to get some kind of surround decoder to use with it - then I would have stereo quadrophonic surround! (This is what Pink Floyd & Roger Waters use for concerts) I play my Jaguar through this. There are several newer developments that are similar to surround sound but more advanced or at least different, can't remember the names right now.

 

Has anyone seen the new Bose home sound system infommercial that features only two small satellite speakers and one sub-woofer? It doesn't have the usual 7.1 surround speakers arrangement. It's being sold as a super-surround sound system with sound coming from all directions. Sounds kinda similar to Q-sound, huh? So, if true, this would be an instance of surround sound without the usual 8 speakers. EDIT: It's the three point surround "cone" as described by Gunstar above.

 

I've noticed some subtle differences between paper-cone & poly or essentially some kind of plastic cone woofers & speakers. It sometimes sounds to me like some of the old paper subwoofers can achieve a lower frequency, in many instances, over the newer poly/plastic woofer cones. Does anyone have any information on the woofer sound differences between these two types of speaker materials.

Edited January 13, 2008 by ovalbugmann

[Punisher5.0]

It's really great to have a nice stereo system. I can appreciate nice FULL range sound, high, mid & deep low bass to reproduce any sound authentically. A stereo system is only as good as it's speakers. I get so irritated listening to music on tinny sounding systems with no bass response. In my bedroom I have a three hundred watt amplifier & a 20-level EQ with an Imx expander & image enhancing. The amplifier only has 4 speaker outs so it's basically Quadrophonic sound system , and I have four '70s style , large, 3 1/2 foot tall speaker cabinets hooked up to it. They each have a 4" horn, 8" midrange, and 15" heavily ribbed , LARGE magnet, paper cone sub-woofers. Those suckers are heavy! The frequency response can go very low with these speakers. I don't have surround sound, but would like to get some kind of surround decoder to use with it - then I would have stereo quadrophonic surround! (This is what Pink Floyd & Roger Waters use for concerts) I play my Jaguar through this. There are several newer developments that are similar to surround sound but more advanced or at least different, can't remember the names right now.

 

Has anyone seen the new Bose™ home sound system infommercial that features only two small satellite speakers and one sub-woofer? It doesn't have the usual 7.1 surround speakers arrangement. It's being sold as a super-surround sound system with sound coming from all directions. Sounds kinda similar to Q-sound, huh? So, if true, this would be an instance of surround sound without the usual 8 speakers. EDIT: It's the three point surround "cone" as described by Gunstar above.

 

I've noticed some subtle differences between paper-cone & poly or essentially some kind of plastic cone woofers & speakers. It sometimes sounds to me like some of the old paper subwoofers can achieve a lower frequency, in many instances, over the newer poly/plastic woofer cones. Does anyone have any information on the woofer sound differences between these two types of speaker materials.

 

Sounds like you have a kick ass sound system there. You can't beat those old speakers. Here's a vid of my sound set up for the Jaguar:

A good sound system makes the Jag really come alive.

[Gorf]

The Jaguar did not have surround sound. There was a left output channel and a right output channel. This is stereo sound. This is not surround sound.

 

Uh, guess what? Surround sound ENCODING can be directed through 2 channels. You just need a surround sound system to DECODE it at the other end! Jaguar has surround sound! IS2 has it for one! IT's Dolby pro-logic surround, not the new digital 7.1, but it's true surround! Got an XBOX or PS2 or 360, etc., etc....on and on? They ALSO only have two channel ouputs (L&R) unless you hook them up through the digital audio line (like available with Xbox), but THEY have surround sound TOO! The encoded surround sound is sent out 2 channels to the surround sound system where it's decoded! Even the SNES has a few games with surround sound!!!

Suggestion; do some research on how surround sound works!

 

Its not TRUE surround sound...it's simulated. Jaguar CAN have TRUE surround but you would need

additional hardware of about 5 more I2S channels to properly implement Surround. I install custom

Home theaters....encodng is not the real thing. It can be done well but you really need the other

true channles and speakers to do it effectively. Even with simulated you still need external hardware

such as a surround decoder like you say. it is not built in to the Jaguar so to say...the DSP of the Jaguar

is only the first part.

[guitarmas]

The Jaguar did not have surround sound. There was a left output channel and a right output channel. This is stereo sound. This is not surround sound.

 

Uh, guess what? Surround sound ENCODING can be directed through 2 channels. You just need a surround sound system to DECODE it at the other end! Jaguar has surround sound! IS2 has it for one! IT's Dolby pro-logic surround, not the new digital 7.1, but it's true surround! Got an XBOX or PS2 or 360, etc., etc....on and on? They ALSO only have two channel ouputs (L&R) unless you hook them up through the digital audio line (like available with Xbox), but THEY have surround sound TOO! The encoded surround sound is sent out 2 channels to the surround sound system where it's decoded! Even the SNES has a few games with surround sound!!!

Suggestion; do some research on how surround sound works!

 

Its not TRUE surround sound...it's simulated. Jaguar CAN have TRUE surround but you would need

additional hardware of about 5 more I2S channels to properly implement Surround. I install custom

Home theaters....encodng is not the real thing. It can be done well but you really need the other

true channles and speakers to do it effectively. Even with simulated you still need external hardware

such as a surround decoder like you say. it is not built in to the Jaguar so to say...the DSP of the Jaguar

is only the first part.

 

Gorf, thank you. I didn't think the Jaguar could output surround sound directly to a tv. So what kind of sound could it produce without being simulated or encoded?

 

Guys, get Gunstar a chill pill...

 

Edited January 12, 2008 by guitarmas

[Kripto]

It's pretty impresive that the Jag could afford to dedicate processor cycles to real-time Q-sound encoding. I guess that's one of the values of having an on-board DSP.

 

It's too bad that most Jag games don't feature music or use the DSP for realtime synthesis since it could obviously handle filtering, etc. Instead they rely on simple sample playback, ala' the distorted bell tones in CyberMorph. (BTW- a very similar sound to CM's selection tone is used on some current day cell phones. Every time I hear it I think "Avoid The Ground..." )

[ovalbugmann]

Also known as STEREO SURROUND (due to the fact that it's all sent through 2 channels!), but it's true surround, just not as focused or distinctive as later surround formats. Just like astronauts use three fixed points in space to determine their location (also known as "triangulation"-the way GPS works with satellites too), it only takes three fixed points of sound source (L, R, REAR) to position sounds within the surround "cone" area which the listener sits in the middle, hence true surround with sounds being place in front to the sides and the rear of the listener in fixed points in space within the audio "cone."

 

 

Its not TRUE surround sound...it's simulated. Jaguar CAN have TRUE surround but you would need

additional hardware of about 5 more I2S channels to properly implement Surround. I install custom

Home theaters....encodng is not the real thing. It can be done well but you really need the other

true channles and speakers to do it effectively. Even with simulated you still need external hardware

such as a surround decoder like you say. it is not built in to the Jaguar so to say...the DSP of the Jaguar

is only the first part.

 

So does IS2 have and produce "simulated" Stereo Surround when you select it in the game, and if you have your Jaguar hooked up to a stereo system that has at least 3 speakers? (the "cone" effect) I have mine hooked up to 4 speakers but don't have any surround options on the amplifier. It does sound good but, do you think this is the full surround effect I'm hearing or would I still need a surround decoder for the stereo to take advantage of this?

 

EDIT: Oops!, Gorf already answered that:

Even with simulated you still need external hardware

such as a surround decoder like you say.

Edited January 13, 2008 by ovalbugmann

[Gunstar]

The Jaguar did not have surround sound. There was a left output channel and a right output channel. This is stereo sound. This is not surround sound.

 

Uh, guess what? Surround sound ENCODING can be directed through 2 channels. You just need a surround sound system to DECODE it at the other end! Jaguar has surround sound! IS2 has it for one! IT's Dolby pro-logic surround, not the new digital 7.1, but it's true surround! Got an XBOX or PS2 or 360, etc., etc....on and on? They ALSO only have two channel ouputs (L&R) unless you hook them up through the digital audio line (like available with Xbox), but THEY have surround sound TOO! The encoded surround sound is sent out 2 channels to the surround sound system where it's decoded! Even the SNES has a few games with surround sound!!!

Suggestion; do some research on how surround sound works!

 

Its not TRUE surround sound...it's simulated. Jaguar CAN have TRUE surround but you would need

additional hardware of about 5 more I2S channels to properly implement Surround. I install custom

Home theaters....encodng is not the real thing. It can be done well but you really need the other

true channles and speakers to do it effectively. Even with simulated you still need external hardware

such as a surround decoder like you say. it is not built in to the Jaguar so to say...the DSP of the Jaguar

is only the first part.

 

I guess it somewhat depends on what one considers "true" surround, Now obviously I know that digital surround system with all the channels is far superior, but all I know is that I have a surround sound decoder and I have Game systems, VCR's, DVD players, etc that have encoded software/movies and when I play them through my decoder, I get sound from 360 degrees within the the projected area. I hear helicopters coming from behind me in IS2 for example, and as far as I'm concerned, that's surround sound becuase I can here the sounds coming from specific locations all around me. I'm surrounded by sounds. As far as I'm concerned that equals surround sound, and the links I provided show this. So, whatever, I've got surround sound. If you want to conclude that it's "simulated" fine, but it works, and that's the bottom line, IMHO. And when I was taught about it in college, encoding and Dolby Por-logic 1&2 were refered to as surround sound by the professors. I know how the encodign and decoding works, and how in-phase and out-of-phase works, and to me, and how I was taught, it's surround sound. Sure there are superior formats of surround sound. To me, saying it's only simulated, is like saying lightbulbs produce "simulated" sunlight. Light is light, surrounded by sounds is surrounded by sounds. The Jaguar has games, like IS2, that surround one in sounds (different sounds from different locations) if you have a a surround sound decoder, and so do my DVD's,VHS tapes, music CD's, etc., and THAT'S the bottom line.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Gunstar

[Paolo]

Just to add some useless cents to this discussion, I often used a particular sound processor (I had to use earphones for gaming in the late night ) that gets a stereo (with surround sound encoded) audio from the Jag and -instead of sending it to the [2+1 / 2+2 / 3+2 /whatever] amplifier- it re-encodes the sound in order to recreate the 'sound location' into the headphone.

 

At first I said "WHA? How is is possible?"

Then I made some reading and learnt what is obvious: we have TWO ears, so the sound reaches us and we can locate sources because of acoustic stuff like phase, reflection, refraction...

 

Thus, a processor only have to take the separated channels and mix them up in order to get the correct soundspace.

 

And the helicopters still came from the back, firing!

But the best is when I rotate my IS and hear the 'copter move to the front.

 

Once I plugged the cable in reverse, it was disturbing, I couldn't wait five minutes before re-plugging them in the correct way...

[Gunstar]

Just to add some useless cents to this discussion, I often used a particular sound processor (I had to use earphones for gaming in the late night ) that gets a stereo (with surround sound encoded) audio from the Jag and -instead of sending it to the [2+1 / 2+2 / 3+2 /whatever] amplifier- it re-encodes the sound in order to recreate the 'sound location' into the headphone.

 

At first I said "WHA? How is is possible?"

Then I made some reading and learnt what is obvious: we have TWO ears, so the sound reaches us and we can locate sources because of acoustic stuff like phase, reflection, refraction...

 

Thus, a processor only have to take the separated channels and mix them up in order to get the correct soundspace.

 

And the helicopters still came from the back, firing!

But the best is when I rotate my IS and hear the 'copter move to the front.

 

Once I plugged the cable in reverse, it was disturbing, I couldn't wait five minutes before re-plugging them in the correct way...

 

Amazing! In other words the surround sound on Iron Soldier 2 does exactly what it's supposed to do!ENCODED "simulated" surround sound ACTUALLY surrounds you! But remember, according to the "experts" it's not "true" surround sound, so it must all be in our imaginations!

 

Whether encoded, or with direct channel lines to the speakers, the sound surrounds you, and it's not the same sound coming out of each speaker, so it's surround sound. The ONLY difference is in the QUALITY. Of course if we want to get REALLY technical, none of the sounds coming out of any sound system or coming from any tape or cd, etc. is real sound, is all "simulated" reproduction of the real sound, and in many cases, it was never true sound to begin with, it was programmed or SYNTHESISED! So is the so-called "true" surround sound even truly sound at all? Or is it merely simulated? One could right a thesis on this stuff!

Edited January 14, 2008 by Gunstar