Phantom Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I really know lil about all this game making stuff yet but next month Im going to start learning on a regular basis so if the above sounds like a dumb question, please forgive me. What I eventually would like to do is have someone (or me EVENTUALLY) port Chiller for the NES to the 7800 with the XE Gun capabilty. Can this kinda thing even be done? Is it extremely hard to pull off since it is going from a NES version to 7800 instead of the usual ports of games I hear like 2600 to 5200 versions and such. Any info would be appreciated as this is a project I want made if it can be done even if it takes me 10 years to learn how to do it myself so thanks for any info. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I really know lil about all this game making stuff yet but next month Im going to start learning on a regular basis so if the above sounds like a dumb question, please forgive me. What I eventually would like to do is have someone (or me EVENTUALLY) port Chiller for the NES to the 7800 with the XE Gun capabilty. Can this kinda thing even be done? Is it extremely hard to pull off since it is going from a NES version to 7800 instead of the usual ports of games I hear like 2600 to 5200 versions and such. Any info would be appreciated as this is a project I want made if it can be done even if it takes me 10 years to learn how to do it myself so thanks for any info. Cheers I don't recall playing that game but unless it makes heavy use of custom mappers you can probably port it over. If you haven't programmed before you may want to check out the source code that's out there and see if it looks like something you want to attempt. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 As you learn how to program, you will come to realize that the machines are so different from each other that, in terms of sheer effort, it's often less difficult to code a game from scratch than to port a game from another machine. Once it's completed, your 7800 version of Chiller might look very similar on-screen to the NES version, but under the hood, at the software level, it will be vastly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Thanks guys. i will research this more. Anyone else that has any info to share please do. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralstorm Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm probably wrong, but it might be easier to do an extensive hacking-job on 7800 Crossbow to produce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 That is probably the best way to make Chiller for the 7800. If you can handle the hacking part, you just need a graphic artist to make gore and blood images. This game might need some scream sound effects too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 That is probably the best way to make Chiller for the 7800. If you can handle the hacking part, you just need a graphic artist to make gore and blood images. This game might need some scream sound effects too. I agree. Hack crossbow...best bang for the buck. Otherwise, its a complete rewrite, and might as well start with the arcade version, rather than the NES version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret75 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I remember someone saying that SMB would be possible on the 7800. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfused Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I remember someone saying that SMB would be possible on the 7800. =P It might be hard to emulate the spites flickering and parts of them disappearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 There's some good information here about the differences between the two and how to port from one to the other. http://atari7800.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/NES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I remember someone saying that SMB would be possible on the 7800. =P It is totally possible to do SMB on the 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I remember someone saying that SMB would be possible on the 7800. =P It is totally possible to do SMB on the 7800. ...but it is impossible to do a 1-to-1 port. The NES is weak on sprites, strong on tiles. The 7800 is strong on sprites, weak on tiles. For a game like SMB you are much better off designing a completely new game that takes advantage of the 7800's strengths than trying to port something over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 ...but it is impossible to do a 1-to-1 port. The NES is weak on sprites, strong on tiles. The 7800 is strong on sprites, weak on tiles. I think SCRAPYARD DOG shows you could do an decent port of Super Mario Bros if you wanted though you'd obviously have to change some things to port it over. I imagine most people would expect that some changes would be made to suit the system - and few would expect a port 100% identical to the NES version in every way. Just like games that appeared across the Apple II, Commodore 64 and Atari 8-bit. Many games play well on all three, despite some differences in the porting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 ...but it is impossible to do a 1-to-1 port. The NES is weak on sprites, strong on tiles. The 7800 is strong on sprites, weak on tiles. I think SCRAPYARD DOG shows you could do an decent port of Super Mario Bros if you wanted though you'd obviously have to change some things to port it over. I imagine most people would expect that some changes would be made to suit the system - and few would expect a port 100% identical to the NES version in every way. Just like games that appeared across the Apple II, Commodore 64 and Atari 8-bit. Many games play well on all three, despite some differences in the porting. Yeah, but SMB plays to the NES's strengths so much that it would really suffer in a 7800 port. Zelda would be a better candidate for a port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yeah, but SMB plays to the NES's strengths so much that it would really suffer in a 7800 port. Zelda would be a better candidate for a port. Interesting. Can you elaborate further on this, as this topic has come up a number of times in a number of forms. Specifically: - Why would you consider Zelda a better candidate than Super Mario Brothers? - What does Super Mario Bros do (technically) that Scrapyard Dog does not, which would cause more concerns in the porting process? Not trying to be facetious ... I've just always wondered this. Some have the perception that the 7800 cannot do "tile based side scrollers" at all. Scrapyard Dog proves it can be done, but curious to know your thoughts on specific roadblocks that Super Mario would cause above and beyond what's in Scrapyard Dog now. That, and why Zelda would be a better candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yeah, but SMB plays to the NES's strengths so much that it would really suffer in a 7800 port. Zelda would be a better candidate for a port. Interesting. Can you elaborate further on this, as this topic has come up a number of times in a number of forms. Specifically: - Why would you consider Zelda a better candidate than Super Mario Brothers? - What does Super Mario Bros do (technically) that Scrapyard Dog does not, which would cause more concerns in the porting process? Not trying to be facetious ... I've just always wondered this. Some have the perception that the 7800 cannot do "tile based side scrollers" at all. Scrapyard Dog proves it can be done, but curious to know your thoughts on specific roadblocks that Super Mario would cause above and beyond what's in Scrapyard Dog now. That, and why Zelda would be a better candidate. Okay, high-level (read: lots of minor, mostly unimportant inaccuracies) explanation: The NES screen is composed of 896 8x8 tiles in a 32x28 grid, but for most purposes you can view them as 224 16x16 tiles in a 16x14 grid. Each of those 16x16 tiles can have 3 colors (plus background). Those 3 can be any from a palette of 12 colors. So it isn't hard to have all 12 tile colors in a single row of tiles, and SMB does this all over the place: Look at the row Mario is standing in: blue, dark green, light green, black, gray, and red. This is basically impossible to replicate on the 7800. To get 12 tile colors in a row of tiles you need to use the 12-color tile mode, but that only leaves time for 1 (One!) 8-pixel-wide 3-color sprites on the same row (without flicker). That doesn't make a SMB clone. So you can use the 3-color tiles for the background, but then you'll have a very hard time duplicating SMB's look. Now, of course, you can use DLIs, A800- or 2600-style, to change colors midway down the screen, but that isn't remotely how SMB's graphics are laid out. You're better off creating new graphics that can take advantage of that technique. Now, Zelda, on the other hand, pretty much only uses 3 colors for its entire background (!). They make it look pretty good by having very well designed graphics and using a lot of clever dithering: So, in porting you can use 3-color tiles and have plenty of time left over for sprites; probably the 7800 could have a port that looked better than the NES version in some ways (namely, less flicker). That leaves aside the whole issue of native resolution differences (NES's 256x224 vs. 7800's 160x224) and sound. With extra, battery-backed RAM and a POKEY on the cart the 7800 could do a very, very nice Zelda clone and/or port. And don't bother with the 320-pixel modes in the 7800 for a port; the main disadvantage of those modes is the severe color limitations - those modes REALLY need games designed specifically with them in mind. The real issues with sidescrolling games, in general, on the 7800 is that they are hard to do with the stock RAM, plus it takes a lot of work to scroll (much more than on the A800 or NES). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 That leaves aside the whole issue of native resolution differences (NES's 256x224 vs. 7800's 160x224) and sound. With extra, battery-backed RAM and a POKEY on the cart the 7800 could do a very, very nice Zelda clone and/or port. And don't bother with the 320-pixel modes in the 7800 for a port; the main disadvantage of those modes is the severe color limitations - those modes REALLY need games designed specifically with them in mind. The real issues with sidescrolling games, in general, on the 7800 is that they are hard to do with the stock RAM, plus it takes a lot of work to scroll (much more than on the A800 or NES). SOOO, what you're trying to say is that the 7800 can do a poor version of Castlevania or Contra but can do a potentially superior version of Zelda, Adventure, Haunted House, or Metal Gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 That leaves aside the whole issue of native resolution differences (NES's 256x224 vs. 7800's 160x224) and sound. With extra, battery-backed RAM and a POKEY on the cart the 7800 could do a very, very nice Zelda clone and/or port. And don't bother with the 320-pixel modes in the 7800 for a port; the main disadvantage of those modes is the severe color limitations - those modes REALLY need games designed specifically with them in mind. The real issues with sidescrolling games, in general, on the 7800 is that they are hard to do with the stock RAM, plus it takes a lot of work to scroll (much more than on the A800 or NES). SOOO, what you're trying to say is that the 7800 can do a poor version of Castlevania or Contra but can do a potentially superior version of Zelda, Adventure, Haunted House, or Metal Gear? Not exactly - I'm saying it could do a poor port of Castlevania or Contra. But there's no reason why the 7800 couldn't do a very very good game of that type. On the other hand, it could do a very nice port of Zelda as well as do a very nice original game of that type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 VDub - thank you, as always, for your specific explanation. Enlightening, as always. Now if only someone had the free time (and the available resources) to port Zelda. Or even better, make an original RPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 That leaves aside the whole issue of native resolution differences (NES's 256x224 vs. 7800's 160x224) and sound. With extra, battery-backed RAM and a POKEY on the cart the 7800 could do a very, very nice Zelda clone and/or port. And don't bother with the 320-pixel modes in the 7800 for a port; the main disadvantage of those modes is the severe color limitations - those modes REALLY need games designed specifically with them in mind. The real issues with sidescrolling games, in general, on the 7800 is that they are hard to do with the stock RAM, plus it takes a lot of work to scroll (much more than on the A800 or NES). SOOO, what you're trying to say is that the 7800 can do a poor version of Castlevania or Contra but can do a potentially superior version of Zelda, Adventure, Haunted House, or Metal Gear? Not exactly - I'm saying it could do a poor port of Castlevania or Contra. But there's no reason why the 7800 couldn't do a very very good game of that type. On the other hand, it could do a very nice port of Zelda as well as do a very nice original game of that type. Ok, I think I understand what you're trying to say. To do at least a good port of Castlevania or Contra, the port would need RAM added to the cart and a lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Ok, I think I understand what you're trying to say. To do at least a good port of Castlevania or Contra, the port would need RAM added to the cart and a lot of work. I think also that the artwork combined with the tile based gameplay would be difficult to replicate on the 7800 (number of colors onscreen, performance of scrolling, moving objects, resolution) without some changes that would be noticable (ie. lowering the resolution, changing the color schemes to a more appropriate mode, taking a performance hit on scrolling, musical sacrifice etc). This is different from saying the 7800 can't do a game in the style of Castlevania or Contra that looks and plays well. He's saying it's hard to replicate the NES game as they are done today on the 7800. Think about it like the Super Mario/Scrapyard Dog example. They are similar types of games but they are still different in most ways ... different music, different graphics, different use of color, different music etc. one is built with the NES in mind. The other with the 7800 in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret75 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Someone should make Duck Hunt for the 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Someone should make Duck Hunt for the 7800. My wife could flip! She typically has no interest in video games yet is a lethal assassin when it comes to duck hunt. It's the funniest thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Queen Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 The answer is yes, but you should not look at the NES first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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