Kaz atarionline.pl Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) There is a final (hopefully ) version of "Knigh Lore": article in Polish, xex file, short description in English, maps (in English either) and sap file. The first conversion from BBC Micro has done! EDIT: 1. About title screen backround - that was xxl's decision to choose Spectrum title screen and I recommeded Emkay to colour it up. We think that Emkay did great job. 2. About difficulties and time-consuming: TeBe had to fix G2F (and compile a new version of it) to allow Emkay realise his idea about this title screen. Thus, this picture pushes Atari and G2F to their limits. Edited January 30, 2008 by Kaz atari.online.pl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ...TeBe had to fix G2F (and compile a new version of it) to allow Emkay realise his idea about this title screen. Thus, this picture pushes Atari and G2F to their limits. Please tell (emkay?), what's the new feature? CU Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raster/c.p.u. Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Very nice game. Great work, boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fandal_ Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Congratulations! Awesome! F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 love the msx! love the conversion... hehehe 2008 brings really some suprises... but as i am dealing with games since quite a while I am always testing on PAL/NTSC... will XXL make a fix? and interesting that on NTSC the game is faster than on PAL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) Wondeful game and incredible music! Edited January 31, 2008 by Philsan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I disagree. Mixing colour & monochrome modes can lead to very convincing effects which I would use to enhance the image(e.g. top and bottom part of the border). Anyhow, here an example which follow your rules. Since I do not like to spend time for superfluous work (I would do the Amstrad conversion if there would be a chance for deployment), I decided to take the title pic for one of the next games in XXLs pipeline (please confirm ) - hoping that the time spend was not useless.... CU Irgendwer Ähm..... You know the difference of your picture and what is really possible and what you are talking about are a widely spreaded degree of directions ? 1. Actually, I have done the same picture already. Wait, and see :-) 2. Free mixing of colour modes is a huge problem in G2F. I hope, TeBe will make it easier in the future. 3. Sure, the "overall" PM Squares are somehow "nice" ? Particular with PAL XE Machines they will be clearly there, where the eye don't want them ... Referring to the "5 minutes for the Amstrad Title" The Amstrad Picture isn't very wide horizontally(144pixel) So you are able to use all 4 players even including the 3rd overlay colour for the background of the title. Building the hires part with the hires graphics (making the graphics even more colourfull). For the Border you could use the missiles and two DLI splits. Thats all. The general solution is to build pictures with the available hardware..... in a way, where the obvious limitations of the machine, turn into parts of picture enhancements.... like "plasmatic FX" or "alpha blending" that are given in gr. 8 or gr. 0 freely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Tried it earlier - looking good. The only suggestion I'd put re title screen is having the "Night Lore" vertically above the rest, in multicolour mode. Maybe have the rainbow effect like Gauntlet for the inside of the lettering. Use the existing pic for the lower part (with the remainder of the cloud filled in). But... it's only a title screen - the important part really is the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) I disagree. Mixing colour & monochrome modes can lead to very convincing effects which I would use to enhance the image(e.g. top and bottom part of the border). Anyhow, here an example which follow your rules. Since I do not like to spend time for superfluous work (I would do the Amstrad conversion if there would be a chance for deployment), I decided to take the title pic for one of the next games in XXLs pipeline (please confirm ) - hoping that the time spend was not useless.... CU Irgendwer Very nice Irgendwer I was also working a while ago last year on the Alien 8 loading pic, it was not finished however as I sidelined it to work full time on this current game project. I was trying also to push the use of midscan line rasters as far as it could go. I had an idea to try to make the flames cross in. I had some way to go with it, here's a pic of where I was up to with the incomplete g2f. RE: Emkay's Knight Lore title. It's very good. It's sometime deceptive from the results the amount of work spent to achive colouring in titles in hi-res. I fully appreceiate the work Emkay will have spent working on it, I can certainly see that days were spent on it. Well done Emkay It goes without saying that I'm as happy as all the above to see this complete! and, I congratulate XXL again for bringing this game to the Atari, it's a great conversion and the new music added fits well and adds to the game very well done to all involved Edited January 31, 2008 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) Ähm..... You know the difference of your picture and what is really possible and what you are talking about are a widely spreaded degree of directions ? I would have done the image different with usage of a 'colour-mode', but for this image I followed your restriction. Also I only want to show the result of approx. 1h, not several days. And believe it or not, I find the image more colourful and for this reason more convincing than your Knightlore title. Beside this I don't like the original 'Alien 8' logo (nearly unreadable like the Kinghtlore logo) but I took this as part of the challange. 1. Actually, I have done the same picture already. Wait, and see :-) Sure. 2. Free mixing of colour modes is a huge problem in G2F. I hope, TeBe will make it easier in the future. We cannot discuss about taste , but I like my 'CRISES' G2F image (which contains mixed modes) very much. 3. Sure, the "overall" PM Squares are somehow "nice" ? Particular with PAL XE Machines they will be clearly there, where the eye don't want them ... They are part of the 'retro-style'. The orignal spectrum image also contains color artifacts, resulting from machine limitations. Here we have again a discussion about taste, which nobody can win. In fact we are both trying to accomplish hardware limitations, but with different emphasis. Personally I like also the writing hand of 'Seven Cities of Gold' very much - even it is blocky. I would not change it against a small, smoother one... Referring to the "5 minutes for the Amstrad Title" The Amstrad Picture isn't very wide horizontally(144pixel) So you are able to use all 4 players even including the 3rd overlay colour for the background of the title. Building the hires part with the hires graphics (making the graphics even more colourfull). For the Border you could use the missiles and two DLI splits. Thats all. I've never said that this would be very difficult, but your 5 mins are too optimistic... ...that's all. The general solution is to build pictures with the available hardware..... in a way, where the obvious limitations of the machine, turn into parts of picture enhancements.... like "plasmatic FX" or "alpha blending" that are given in gr. 8 or gr. 0 freely.... You insist on 'mono-mode-only' images which I don't do. I don't burden myself with an unnecessary limitation. Of course you can do... (Ist doch alles gar nicht so wichtig - Hauptsache wir sind gesund!) CU Irgendwer Edited January 31, 2008 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You insist on 'mono-mode-only' images which I don't do. I don't burden myself with an unnecessary limitation.Of course you can do... In German: Was ich meine, ist die bestmögliche Lösung, mit der Bilder erstellt werden können, ohne dass die Einschränkungen des Atari eindeutig werden, sondern als "Kunst des Ganzen" angesehen werden können. Und, nein. Meine "Alien8" Lösung ist nicht einfarbig. We cannot discuss about taste , but I like my 'CRISES' G2F image (which contains mixed modes) very much. I'm not talking about charmode-related-switching between hires and colour mode here, really .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbotkinneydude Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 As Darth Vader said to Luke Skywalker while fighting a duel in The Empire Strikes Back: "Impressive... Most Impressive" Thank you Captain Needa ! AND A BIG THANK YOU TO XXL, EMKAY AND STRING FOR THIS GREAT CONVERSION !!! Me... SO HAPPY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) there is a bug in game, proper verion: http://atari.pl/knightlore.obx (1.1) Edited January 31, 2008 by xxl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twh/f2 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Also from my side MASSIVE thumbs up for this outstanding XL/XE contribution. Exceptional performance!! grtx, \twh::taos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz atarionline.pl Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 there is a bug in game, proper verion: http://atari.pl/knightlore.obx (1.1) The same file here with bug description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) CU Irgendwer NISH.zip Edited February 1, 2008 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 that's not bad at all, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Not bad?? That's great!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrodegang Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) That's REAL artwork. I like it. Thanks! Edited February 1, 2008 by Chrodegang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 CUIrgendwer On the first sight it looks good. But... The depth of the picture is build by the "DLI effect" -> Everyone recognizes the limitations. Also... the heavy player missile "overhead" is destroying the picture, if the brightness is set to standard. Particular the roof of the house and the dragon/border "overhead" makes the picture partially unreliable. Because the picture is only 16 Bytes wide, it should be possible to reduce the "PM" Overhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) CUIrgendwer On the first sight it looks good. But... ... I agree. There are images where you can identify the limitations of the machine. In other images you can identify the limitations of the artist. CU Irgendwer Edited February 1, 2008 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrodegang Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I agree. There are images where you can identify the limitations of the machine. In other images you canidentify the limitations of the artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 If that image is how it would look onscreen then I personally don't see any real problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) If that image is how it would look onscreen then I personally don't see any real problems. I think it looks good on the real machine too. It depends on the colour/TV settings but the overall apperance is good (checked it also with all palettes from AWin+). Even I get the point in emkay's reply and even support it in general, I think it does not match to this image. It's all about tradeoffs. When interpreting emkay's statement to fully extend, we all end up in making conversions of pictures from Mondrian. Otherwise someone could detect pixels and for this reason 'a limitation of the machine'. Many methods try to cheat the user and when you know the technical principles this cheating may not work for you anymore: JPEG/MPEG: blocky artefacts, DLP beamers: rainbow colors... ...but for many other people there is no visible problem. So I'm very glad he said: "On the first sight it looks good." which means for me: the cheating/image works. One more point: The image is a conversion. The dragon (wings) has the 'color-break', because the original has a similar appearance. When creating an image from scratch all is different. Especially the selection of the topic (anyone go for Mondrian? ). Thank you for the feedback Irgendwer Edited February 2, 2008 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) ... Yes.... it looks almost similar Despite of the "too bright" G2F image, you see colour clashes that simply must not be there. And you see them with a correct adjusted TV set And, well... the Border is "red-brown" not "green brown The DLIs in the Border destroys the view of the image and doesn't enhance anything. The house is overall to bright. The Spectrum-House-Front is darker, giving some optical bonus. Well, you can say that my KL Title shows less "correctness", but it is of 32 Bytes width while the Knightshade image is about 16 Bytes wide. You can use a much higher colour density, but you simply overlayed some players. Except the partially good set "lights", your conversion has no "depth, compared to the Speccy version, which explains your first statement about my KL Title conversion. Edited February 2, 2008 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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