What makes the stock joysticks so painful?

[shadow460]

I kind of wondered this. Why does everyone think the Pro-Line joysticks hurt their hands?

 

I bought a near mint Pro-Line stick the other day for $5. I hooked it up and tried to play the 2600 Kangaroo cart. I quickly realized that I had to put a lot of force on the stick to make mother Kangaroo move to the right. Within a minute my hand was hurting.

 

On the other hand, I've used my "repaired" Pro-Line joysticks for games like Commando and had very little discomfort with them. I wonder if me tightening up the centering mechanism and making the stick more responsive has anything to do with it...

[NightSprinter]

How did you tighten the centering mechanism?

[doctorclu]

How did you tighten the centering mechanism?

 

I generally avoid the standard 7800 sticks too.

 

And 5200 sticks.

 

Strangely, as simple as they were, the 2600 sticks were right on when they came out.

[Albert]

How did you tighten the centering mechanism?

 

I generally avoid the standard 7800 sticks too.

 

And 5200 sticks.

 

Strangely, as simple as they were, the 2600 sticks were right on when they came out.

Agreed, of these three generations of Atari controllers, I find that the CX-40s are the most comfortable by far. I can play games for hours with the CX-40 stick, but the 7800 controllers are downright painful after only a short period of time (depending on the game). And while the 5200 controllers are comfortable to hold, the fire buttons are excruciating, especially for games where you need to use them frequently.

 

..Al

[DracIsBack]

Interesting. I always found all Atari stock controllers for all systems "uncomfortable", including 2600 controllers and stock Jaguar controllers.

 

In the case of the 7800, just too stiff was the biggie. The other was the left-right buttons seems weird ergonomically. I got used to them and could use them without pain, but it was an effort.

 

the CX40's on the 2600 and XE, I actually never quite got used to. For the Jaguar, I found the Procontroller better and almost always use it.

[midnight8]

I kind of wondered this. Why does everyone think the Pro-Line joysticks hurt their hands?

 

I bought a near mint Pro-Line stick the other day for $5. I hooked it up and tried to play the 2600 Kangaroo cart. I quickly realized that I had to put a lot of force on the stick to make mother Kangaroo move to the right. Within a minute my hand was hurting.

 

On the other hand, I've used my "repaired" Pro-Line joysticks for games like Commando and had very little discomfort with them. I wonder if me tightening up the centering mechanism and making the stick more responsive has anything to do with it...

 

I think the way you hold a 2600 stick uses the strength of your left hand a lot better. When you hold the 7800 controller because the position your holding hand is in it makes it weak as compared to your other hand which is on the stick so one hand is always fighting the other.

[shadow460]

How did you tighten the centering mechanism?

 

Open the stick and insert a cardboard shim in between the foam piece and the white plastic that connected to the joystick shaft itself. You'll have to cut the shim as it'll put enough force on one of the contacts to make it close without the stick being pushed. Once that's done and everything works normal, you can reassemble the stick and it'll feel a lot stiffer but it'll have much better response.

[Atari2008]

Are the European joypads any better?

[DracIsBack]

Are the European joypads any better?

 

they aren't great either. Maybe a bit more ergonomic compared to the prolines, but harder on the hands than other joypads of the era. In addition, I find they struggle with games that require sensitivity compared to the pro-line. I'm never able to do the really hard jumps in SCRAPYARD DOG on a joypad.

[Lord Thag]

I think it's the hard plastic knobs on the end. I don't mind the 7800 sticks that much, but they are certainly not the highlight of the era. On the other had, a refurbished 5200 stick is one of my favorites.

[rockman_x_2002]

There's a number of factors why 7800 sticks aren't too comfortable.

 

The biggest problem by far is its shape. Vertically oriented sticks are hard to hang on to, especially when the width is small as the 7800 sticks are. Holding the controller so that the joystick faces upward, as normal, causes you to hold the stick with the palm of your "free" hand (the one you use to press the buttons) facing upwards, and the palm of your "joystick" hand resting on the knob of the joystick itself. This can tire both hands quickly since you're basically keeping your wrists twisted in those positions for extended lengths of time. Also, finger and thumb placement on the buttons causes further stress on the free hand. So ergonomically, the controller design is just plain bad on your hands.

 

Also adding to this is the fact that the joystick is made entirely of plastic. HARD plastic that has no give whatsoever. Now most game controllers are made of similar material, but because of the bad ergonomic layout of the 7800 stick, having the joystick entirely of plastic gives you nearly zero buffer to rest your hands on like rubber coating would.

 

So why do 2600 sticks differ and feel comfortable? Well, you hold the stick in your "free" hand with your palm toward the side!

 

Given this, you can somewhat remedy the uncomfortableness of the 7800's stick by holding the joystick over on its side. For example, if you use your right hand for stick control, hold the joystick in the left hand with the stick facing right. Of course, this means you'll have to play games sideways, but I find that this is much less tiring on the hands and allows me to play for extended periods of time without a lot of stress to the wrists and hands. This is what makes a controller with a control pad on it (even the square, sharp-cornered NES ones) feel just right. It minimizes the torque on your wrists so you don't tire out. I would imagine it also reduces the chances of developing CTS.

Edited February 17, 2008 by rockman_x_2002

[jetset]

The fact that the stick is like trying to move a tree stump left to right? Plus for games that require 2 buttons, having them on opposite sides was a really poor design. Take s some getting used to, but they *are* painful.

That said, the European joypads are awesome.

[phuzzed]

I agree a lot wtih Rocketman_x_2002...

 

I think it's the damn shape. There isn't a good way to hold onto them with the other hand, and they don't fit right.... when you push left or right, you have to have a damn death grip on them--especially if you are in a really intense game. Your hands naturally tense up during those moments.

 

I've had my 7800 since the day it came out (xmas gift from my parents), and I've used the sticks MAYBE a half a dozen times. I know in Pole Position II, you are supposed to use the R button as a brake--screw it. I just play with a 2600 joystick and don't use the brake

 

And serioulsy, how in the hell are you supposed to play a game like Robotron with these sticks?

 

While on the subject of joysticks, I never really found the standard Atari CX40 joysticks all that great--but, compared to controllers that came with other systems at the time, they were the best.

 

I personally like the Suncom Tac-2 Joysticks. They work for either left and Right handed players, have EXCELLENT response, and are very durable.

[shadow460]

I find that you can hit the right fire button with the fingers of your right hand. I was playing Kangaroo earlier with a Pro-Line, and when I'd try to punch with a thumb or finger on my left hand, the controller would slip. As long as my hands stayed dry, though, the controller never slipped.

 

Now for rapid firing, the Pro-Line does indeed suck.

 

I honestly think there's a way to make the Pro-Line much more manageable than it is. I think that way doesn't include changing the controller's exterior appearance, either, save for maybe adding some rubber grips and a more flexible cord.

[gdement]

A fresh Proline joystick is stiff, but it doesn't require more than just a touch for it to respond. I noticed on my first set that, over time, they required more and more pressure to get a response. People (especially kids) have a natural tendency to push them harder than required, and this wears them out. I think of the Proline stick as a very delicate device - I'm afraid to use my good ones very often, and when I do, I'm ridiculously gentle with them. My 7800 was replaced around 1990 or so, and I've kept that newer set of controllers in perfect condition all this time, but admittedly I hardly ever used them.

Edited February 18, 2008 by gdement

[Atarifever]

I think it's because pretty much everyone seems to be a whiny little little cry-baby. Bunch of latte drinking, specialty shampoo buying mama's boys. If you don't like the prolines, it isn't because they are bad controllers, it's because you're a bad person. Your hands have been misled by joypads for so long, you think any controller not made for an 8 year old is "uncomfortable."

 

(What emoticon should I add here, to show that I'm not really serious... but am probably a little serious.)

[midnight8]

I think it's because pretty much everyone seems to be a whiny little little cry-baby. Bunch of latte drinking, specialty shampoo buying mama's boys. If you don't like the prolines, it isn't because they are bad controllers, it's because you're a bad person. Your hands have been misled by joypads for so long, you think any controller not made for an 8 year old is "uncomfortable."

 

(What emoticon should I add here, to show that I'm not really serious... but am probably a little serious.)

 

 

lol!!!

[shadow460]

I think it's because pretty much everyone seems to be a whiny little little cry-baby. Bunch of latte drinking, specialty shampoo buying mama's boys. If you don't like the prolines, it isn't because they are bad controllers, it's because you're a bad person. Your hands have been misled by joypads for so long, you think any controller not made for an 8 year old is "uncomfortable."

 

(What emoticon should I add here, to show that I'm not really serious... but am probably a little serious.)

 

Actually, though, there is some truth to this. In a way, you need to be able to get used to any console's stock controllers. You can bet that those controllers will have the highest compatibility out of any controller the system can use.

[godzillajoe]

Are the European joypads any better?

 

they aren't great either. Maybe a bit more ergonomic compared to the prolines, but harder on the hands than other joypads of the era. In addition, I find they struggle with games that require sensitivity compared to the pro-line. I'm never able to do the really hard jumps in SCRAPYARD DOG on a joypad.

 

I busted one open and re-soldered the wires so I can turn it upside down and play with the stick on the right and the two fire buttons reversed. I like that a bit better. Wish it had a straight stick instead of that mushroom thing though. Putting your thumb on top makes it hard to get precise control but if you hold it between yr thumb and finger it's better.

[jferio]

I busted one open and re-soldered the wires so I can turn it upside down and play with the stick on the right and the two fire buttons reversed. I like that a bit better. Wish it had a straight stick instead of that mushroom thing though. Putting your thumb on top makes it hard to get precise control but if you hold it between yr thumb and finger it's better.

 

Just grab that mushroom, and pull on it until it pops off the aluminum shaft. That's how I disassembled one for parts for my Space Invaders 7800 stick. It's only held on by friction, but it's quite a LOT of friction the first time.

[STcomp]

The problem is that they are not wide enough, and they have a weird smooth shape that tends to twist out of position in your hand, so you have to wrap your hand around the base in an awkward way, which makes all of the muscles in your hand cramp up if you try to hold it steady to control accurately, or fire fast. They are simply a sucky design, I don't know what they were thinking. The european controllers are much better, and the gravis gamepad even better yet! (if you dont need the second 7800 fire button)

 

I kind of wondered this. Why does everyone think the Pro-Line joysticks hurt their hands?

 

I bought a near mint Pro-Line stick the other day for $5. I hooked it up and tried to play the 2600 Kangaroo cart. I quickly realized that I had to put a lot of force on the stick to make mother Kangaroo move to the right. Within a minute my hand was hurting.

 

On the other hand, I've used my "repaired" Pro-Line joysticks for games like Commando and had very little discomfort with them. I wonder if me tightening up the centering mechanism and making the stick more responsive has anything to do with it...

[Bruce Tomlin]

Two words: SIDE BUTTONS. You can't grip AND do button pushing at the same time with your thumb in that position. Actually it's lifting the button that is the problem.

 

I hated the 5200 sticks for the same reason. The difference is that the 5200 sticks don't require you to push the stick hard to the side. Coleco sticks aren't quite as bad as the 7800 for some reason. Maybe it's the spring-operated switches for the side buttons.

[ninermaniac]

I just recently got the most comfortable joystick I have ever used for the 7800. An Epyx 500XJ. I like it better than the WICO. Try em'. You love em'.

[DracIsBack]

I just recently got the most comfortable joystick I have ever used for the 7800. An Epyx 500XJ. I like it better than the WICO. Try em'. You love em'.

 

I had one when I had a 7800 originally and loved how it fit in your hand. My only gripes were the lack of a second button and the fact that mine sometimes got stuck.

[ninermaniac]

I just recently got the most comfortable joystick I have ever used for the 7800. An Epyx 500XJ. I like it better than the WICO. Try em'. You love em'.

 

I had one when I had a 7800 originally and loved how it fit in your hand. My only gripes were the lack of a second button and the fact that mine sometimes got stuck.

 

Bummer. Luckily you can get them very cheap. $5 on eBay and most other sites. Lots of sellers don't know you can use the on the Atari 2600 & 7800. They usually list them for the Sega Genesis. Man I love it though. Sooooooo comfortable.

Edited February 23, 2008 by ninermaniac