Why did Atari ditch the 5200?

[Retro Rogue]

It's too bad the Tramiels didn't dust off all of the older 5200 titles that were in the queue to release as XEGS titles.

 

From what current research has shown, its most likely they didn't have a lot of the material related to the ones that were in queue. A lot of stuff walked off during the transfer or development materials were destroyed, etc.

 

They never released Super Pac Man, for instance. Of course, most of these were probably in license hell.

 

Not sure. Some of their licenses had to of carried over if they released Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, and some of the others for the XEGS. They released Ms. Pac-Man for the 7800 during that time as well. You'd have to ask what's his name (can't remember his name right now, was head of that stuff for Atari Corp. and eventually left to work for Activision).

[DracIsBack]

This is what threw me off into thinking it wasn't actually Tramiel that killed the unit:

 

 

ATARI VIDEO GAME UNIT INTRODUCED

By DAVID E. SANGER Published: May 22, 1984 Atari Inc., attempting to rekindle enthusiasm for its video game and computer products, introduced a sophisticated video game machine yesterday that it said was the first of a flurry of new products.

 

''I believe that over the next 12 months this beleaguered company is going to surprise a lot of people,'' said James J. Morgan, the chairman and chief executive of the Warner Communications unit, who was brought in last year to save Atari. The company, based in Sunnyvale, Calif., lost more than $500 million in the price war that devastated the home computer and video game businesses last year.

 

But Mr. Morgan, who on numerous occasions has been blunt about Atari's problems, said the company had ''not completely'' turned around, and he complained that ''numerous levels of bureaucracy and red tape'' still hinder the company's creative efforts and marketing plans. A further reorganization of Atari, he said, would be announced in the next few weeks, but he refused to give details.

 

Optional Keyboard

 

The new product, which Atari calls the 7800 Prosystem, will sell for $149 and appears to be a replacement for the company's current top-of-the-line machine, the 5200. Company officials disclosed for the first time yesterday that the 5200 is no longer in production, and Atari appears to be selling off its inventory.

 

The new video game model includes higher-resolution graphics and an optional keyboard that will convert it into a low-performance home computer. When pressed, however, company officials acknowledged that no programs currently on the market would run on the computer. ''We intend to be careful in positioning,'' Mr. Morgan said, ''so that the consumer understands that this is not a full- powered computer.''

 

Atari said that game cartridges designed for its most popular and longest-lasting machine, the 2600, would run on the new system. Such compatibility is considered critical to the success of any new video game machine from Atari, to encourage consumers with older machines to buy the newest models.

 

A Question of Timing

 

Still, some analysts have questioned whether the timing is right for a new machine, particularly one whose primary attributes are technical improvements on the 5200.

 

But Mr. Morgan and other company officials insisted that Atari had carefully planned the move, and that demand for new video game products remained strong.

 

The officials cited a highly favorable response to the machine in a marketing survey conducted for the company, but they refused to give production figures or sales estimates.

[BydoEmpire]

Dreamcast had Sega Smash Pack Volume 1 initially, and there were other packaged volumes.

The DC game with a demo/sampler pack (DC Generator Vol 1) like the original Playstation I believe, not the Smash Pack. I don't think that was ever a pack-in.

 

But Mr. Morgan and other company officials insisted that Atari had carefully planned the move

Hah, that's a good one.

[+DamonicFury]

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

[jetset]

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

That doesnt make sense? Werent DK, Zaxxon, etc available on the 2600 too?

And really...that's exactly WHY people wanted both systems. I for one couldnt wait to get a PacMan that was like the coin op, same with Missile Command, Pole Position, etc...both myself and my friends that had a 5200 back in the day...those were the first games we ran out and bought! True the Coleco DID have some unique titles, but most of those were ripoffs of other games anyway (Ladybug, Mouse Trap, cosmic Avenger, etc). Atari certainly did get caught with their pants down though. If PacMan were the launch/pack in title, or Pole Position, hell even Space Invaders the system would have fared better.

[Goochman]

Coleco beat Atari to the Donkey Kong and Zaxxon license rights - thats why the 5200 didnt get a version. Atari got the home computer rights and as we saw Coleco did a fantastic job on the 2600 versions of those titles........not!

[ymike673]

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

That doesnt make sense? Werent DK, Zaxxon, etc available on the 2600 too?

And really...that's exactly WHY people wanted both systems. I for one couldnt wait to get a PacMan that was like the coin op, same with Missile Command, Pole Position, etc...both myself and my friends that had a 5200 back in the day...those were the first games we ran out and bought! True the Coleco DID have some unique titles, but most of those were ripoffs of other games anyway (Ladybug, Mouse Trap, cosmic Avenger, etc). Atari certainly did get caught with their pants down though. If PacMan were the launch/pack in title, or Pole Position, hell even Space Invaders the system would have fared better.

 

 

I agree with you. That's why I purchased the 5200 instead of Colecovision. Other than Donkey Kong I was not interested in any of Coleco's games but with the 5200 I got close to arcade versions of Pac Man, Missle Command etc. To me at the time it was a very easy choice of which system to buy.

Edited February 29, 2008 by ymike673

[+DamonicFury]

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

That doesnt make sense? Werent DK, Zaxxon, etc available on the 2600 too?

 

Yes, games like Donkey Kong and Zaxxon were released by Coleco on the 2600, but they were released at the same time, or slightly after, the Colecovision versions. And, like I said above, they were generally poor ports. My point was that as a 1982 Atari 2600 owner, you had a choice between getting a 5200 and re-purchasing games you already had, or getting a Colecovision and having access to a new library of titles.

Edited February 29, 2008 by sdamon

[Ransom]

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

That doesnt make sense? Werent DK, Zaxxon, etc available on the 2600 too?

 

Yes, games like Donkey Kong and Zaxxon were released by Coleco on the 2600, but they were released at the same time, or slightly after, the Colecovision versions. And, like I said above, they were generally poor ports. My point was that as a 1982 Atari 2600 owner, you had a choice between getting a 5200 and re-purchasing games you already had, or getting a Colecovision and having access to a new library of titles.

 

You're absolutely right. And as I recall, Coleco kept them exclusive to the ColecoVision for six months prior to releasing those games for other systems.

[Atari5200]

Coleco beat Atari to the Donkey Kong and Zaxxon license rights - thats why the 5200 didnt get a version.

 

I'm pretty sure Zaxxon is available for the 5200.

[Lord Helmet]

Yup, but by Sega:

 

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...wareLabelID=672

 

I wonder how they got the rights to the 5200 version?

[Retro Rogue]

Yup, but by Sega:

 

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...wareLabelID=672

 

I wonder how they got the rights to the 5200 version?

 

 

Possibly because Zaxxon is their game?

[Lord Helmet]

Yup, but by Sega:

 

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...wareLabelID=672

 

I wonder how they got the rights to the 5200 version?

 

 

Possibly because Zaxxon is their game?

 

 

 

 

If that is the reason, they why did Coleco release it for the CV and the 2600? All three systems were out at the same time.

[Atari2008]

I had never thought about the Colecovision exclusive titles but it seems like the CV had some more unique titles than the 5200. The 5200 had great Atari titles and arcade ports but the CV also had games that seemed to push new ground. One example I could think of is Smurfs, although it hasn't aged well in my view, it must've been revolutionary in 1982, and was unique to the CV (granted there was a 2600 version but it was much more slimmed down). Then there was Turbo, although not a unique title, it did have that steering wheel which looks cool. I think if the CV had a few more original games (like Gremlins) in the library earlier on it would've sold more. Especially because 2600 owners wouldnt feel like they were getting another system to play the same games. Also, it seems a shame given the 5200's incredible hardware that Atari didnt push it further. The 5200's smooth scrolling for example would've been an advantage for a side scrolling adventure game (although I know there were hardly any of those at the time) but maybe had it lived on...

[Retro Rogue]

Yup, but by Sega:

 

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...wareLabelID=672

 

I wonder how they got the rights to the 5200 version?

 

 

Possibly because Zaxxon is their game?

 

 

 

 

If that is the reason, they why did Coleco release it for the CV and the 2600? All three systems were out at the same time.

 

The three systems being out at the same time has nothing to do with it. Its when the game itself was done, and Coleco's port of Zaxxon for the Colecovision and 2600 were from 1982. Sega didn't get in to console publishing on its own until the next year.

[hex65000]

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

That doesnt make sense? Werent DK, Zaxxon, etc available on the 2600 too?

Except that the 2600 versions were wretched no matter how you slice it. The Coleco versions were impressive and I recall in my youth wanting a Coleco long before I even thought about the 5200 seriously. I eventually just went straight to computer gaming and became oblivious to game consoles, but that's another story for another time.

 

The irony of all this is now I will play with my 5200 every once in a while, and the Coleco systems I have are pretty much neglected and may end up on the chopping block with some of my other unplayed systems ike the TG-16, Magnavox, Virtual Boy, and possibly the Intellivision.

 

My only real problem with the 5200 is its size. It's like this black and chrome phallic wedge of utter hugeness. It makes storage a bit of a pain, and is only rivaled in sheer bulk by the Neo Geo.

 

Hex.

[ Thinks that tomorrow may be an official 'researching day'... ]

[Draikar]

Here was a Atari 5200 Commercial that went against Coleco on youtube, http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nk-r9jtJqec

Edited March 1, 2008 by Draikar

[phuzzed]

Here was a Atari 5200 Commercial that went against Coleco on youtube, http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nk-r9jtJqec

 

I find this video to be hillarious for the fact when they say "here's Pac-man on Colecovision", they show the Atari 2600 version. See? Even Atari knew that the version of Pac-Man on the 2600 was crap.

[Zonie]

"Super Break Out" actually made sense since it could be played by 4 players and that was one of the 5200's original selling points.

 

Perhaps, but Super Breakout was available on the 2600, and possibly more playable on that platform (depends on how well one gets the 'feel' of the sticks). There wasn't really anything to distinguish the 5200 Super Breakout from the 2600 version.

 

Atari should have included Star Raiders as the pack-in, and skipped the 2600 version of that game altogether. That would have given the 5200 a large and immediate boost.

 

Agreed!

 

one of the biggest mistakes was not having the 5200 compatible with the 2600 from the getgo and not devoting more $ to development and advertising.

 

There would have been no practical way to make a machine compatible with both the Atari 400 and the 2600. The only components that would be shared between the two machines would be the RF modulator, power supply, and processor. Further, because of everything else that was different between the two machines, sharing the processor would have been impractical.

 

If Atari's goal had instead been to design a "2600 plus", that might have been interesting. Some features that could have been added reasonably easily:

• A 2Kx8 SRAM from $0800-$0FFF
  
• An extended cartridge connector to allow 64K of addressing space (I would have made the cartridges shape somewhat like a non-slanted Chevrolet logo), so new cartridges would be bigger but old cartridges would fit snugly.
  
• A selectable phi0 clock rate of clk/3 (old mode) or clk/2 (new mode)
  
• Two more pairs of player/missile sprites
  
• Allow each sprite to be triggered by either its own or its "partner's" position register (see below), with delay.
  
• A more versatile NUSIZx arrangement (writes to the old NUSIZx would get automatically translated to the new style)
  
• A more convenient sprite motion system.
  
• Some improvements to 'vertical delay'
  
• An 80-bit-wide playfield (10 bytes), with ganged and unganged write registers.
  

A machine like that may not have been quite as powerful as the 5200, but it could have done a lot. In situations where one would want to overlay two sprites to mimic a more colorful sprite, or position two sprites next to each other to mimic a wider one, being able to have the sprites triggered by one's choice of position registers would allow one register to be set up while the other was used for display.

 

Such a machine couldn't do some of the things the 5200 can do, but it could still do a lot, and at a much lower cost than the 5200.

 

Hmmm... Bowtie version.

 

 

Atari should have included Star Raiders as the pack-in, and skipped the 2600 version of that game altogether. That would have given the 5200 a large and immediate boost.

 

 

I agree with you. Star Raiders would have been a better choice than Super Break Out and it played well with the 5200 joysticks. I really believe Breakout being the "Pack In" game was because it was the only 5200 game that could be played by 4 players and Atari originally marketed the 5200 as a 4 player system. I think Missle Command would also have been a better choice.

 

You know, I never thought about it before, but Star Raiders would have made a huge impact. That game was the biggest reason a lot of folks actually bought their Atari computers way back when (it's how my original 800 got picked up). Star Raiders as a pack in would have rocked! Good point.

 

Star Raiders is why I have a 400. Missile command would have been a good second choice.

 

Here is another possible reason for Super Break Out. When I bought my 5200 I also bought a Missle Command Cartridge because I wanted to play a better game than Break Out. Maybe Atari decided to include a so-so game with the console because they believed that buyers would also buy a better game cartridge when they purchased the console. Kind of short sighted thinking but possible.

 

Most folks bought the console and a second game as well. I got my 2600 with Superman.

 

Something that shouldn't be discounted about the failure of the 5200 was the lack of new and different games. As a 2600 kid back in the 80's, I really wasn't all that interested in the 5200... Missile Command? Breakout? Space Invaders? Yawn! I could play good versions of those on the 2600! But Colecovision... Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, Venture, Ladybug, Cosmic Avenger, etc. It was a whole new set of games with great graphics that either had no 2600 port or a very poor one. Had Atari worked early on to acquire some new properties, that would have helped. I suspect Coleco and it's library caught them by suprise, though... I remember early press about the 5200 in which it was clear Atari was trying to compete with Mattel's Intellivision, not the Colecovision.

 

Dk and Zaxxon were good games, but the CV did have some bugs and flaws that hampered these games. They were simply rushed to market. A lot of the other titles they had were little known arcade ports that usually you would find in some obscure location or a bootleg cabinet.

 

Atari should have just killed the 2600 and reduced the mfg cost and sales price of the 400 and marketed it as the console it was intended to be in the first place. Think of all the cool add-on's and great games that thing would have had if all that R&D money spent on the 5200 were spent on improving what every kid wanted back then anyway. with the Disk based games, the sky was the limit. Having the options of a disk drive and other peripherals gave people the choice of what they wanted to spend. A $250 400 with a few good pack-ins would have fit the bill. they did have DK after all.

[+swlovinist]

The 5200 was a good idea gone bad. I love that it is essentially a 8 bit computer console, but hated that the system had funky controllers and hookups. That itself(not software)killed it. I too, think that a cheap XE console released instead of the 5200 would have been awsome. I think the reason that they didnt scrap it before it was released was the fact(like many big companies), is that you have alot of resources and pressure to keep coming up with new innovations and to beat your competetors to the punch. In the case of the 5200, Atari bet wrong.

[tyranthraxus]

I think the 5200 library gets a bum rap. Weren't many of the titles released concurrently with the 2600? I'm thinking in particular of the various Williams ports and other 1982 arcade games like Pole Position, Moon Patrol and Q*bert. And wasn't Star Raiders a 82 release as well? It wa only natural that Atari would spread the releases between their systems. But today I think we can all agree that they should have made Pac-Man a 5200 exclusive instead of trying to milk the 2600 cow dry. And in light of the events of 83-84 IF they had instead gone the XEGS route, well...

 

However as someone who was a kid who played a CV extensively back then (and never heard of the 5200 until the 1990s) the CV was an exciting system. Donkey Kong 'seemed' perfect back then and in 2008 we shouldn't understate just how popular that game was. I remember playing Smurfs and it was like the popular cartoon come to life! Although its a crap game, Buck Rogers was pretty fun back then (not so much now...). While lacking in classic titles the CV had some good games and several key licenses. As a collector in 2008 the nice thing is that the CV and 5200 make great complimentary systems with little overlap.

[flowmotion]

Yes, games like Donkey Kong and Zaxxon were released by Coleco on the 2600, but they were released at the same time, or slightly after, the Colecovision versions. And, like I said above, they were generally poor ports. My point was that as a 1982 Atari 2600 owner, you had a choice between getting a 5200 and re-purchasing games you already had, or getting a Colecovision and having access to a new library of titles.

This is a good point. At that time, nobody had experienced a "next generation" console. Before there was only one Atari, not a 2600 and 5200. The initial 5200 lineup was mainly 2600 rehashes with minimal improvements, which lead people to believe that Atari was just trying to double-charge them for the same games. And then you had the ColecoVision which could play 2600 games. I think there was a lot of consumer confusion about all of this. People got frustrated which lead to the sales slowdown.

 

Plus games like SuperBreakout and Space Invaders were ancient anyways and should have never been on a new console. Or they should have at least called them "Ultra Breakout" or "Space Invaders II" or something and been improved both visually and play-wise.

 

Finally the 5200 controllers were getting a bad rap from the very beginning, even in the mainstream press. Big problem which Atari never really addressed.

[CV Gus]

Stupidity, really.

 

The Atari 5200, as you all know, is really just an Atari computer minus the keyboard. It was hurried out to match the ColecoVision, which threatened Atari's position in home gaming- for example, taking away arcade licenses.

 

It is important to realize that although the Tramiels were real boneheads, and had planned to dump "old Atari" anyway (remember the table scene?), "old Atari" had already planned to dump the 5200 anyway, in favor of the 7800.

 

This was because, in spite of the pro-5200 propaganda, the ColecoVision pounded the 5200 in sales. The 5200 just didn't match Atari's expectations.

 

What they failed to realize was how the public would feel about it all. The 5200's official lifespan was less than 1 1/2 years. That's it. And now, they were just going to abandon the 5200 owners. And for what? The 7800, with games like Joust, Ms. Pac-Man, Robotron:2084, and Centipede. All of which had been done on the 2600 and 5200, the latter 3 good enough to stand up to the 7800 versions (Centipede on the 5200 is actually somewhat better!).

 

Look at the games that would have been released for the 5200: Tempest, Millipede, Super Pac-Man, and Pac-Man Jr.. If completed and released, more than a few gamers would have taken another look at the 5200, and it would have been CURRENT with the arcade scene (close enough).

 

A huge part of the problem were idiot Baby Boomer marketers who had no idea how the younger, game-playing generation felt. They had convinced themselves, a-la "Dilbert", that "video gaming was dead; the future is in COMPUTERS."

 

2008. X-Box 360 and Playstation 3. Will they NOW admit that they didn't know a damn thing?

 

Huh. Not likely.

[ZylonBane]

And then you had the ColecoVision which could play 2600 games.

Only with a separate adapter that practically nobody bought anyway.

[Atari2008]

What they failed to realize was how the public would feel about it all. The 5200's official lifespan was less than 1 1/2 years. That's it. And now, they were just going to abandon the 5200 owners. And for what? The 7800, with games like Joust, Ms. Pac-Man, Robotron:2084, and Centipede. All of which had been done on the 2600 and 5200, the latter 3 good enough to stand up to the 7800 versions (Centipede on the 5200 is actually somewhat better!).

 

Look at the games that would have been released for the 5200: Tempest, Millipede, Super Pac-Man, and Pac-Man Jr.. If completed and released, more than a few gamers would have taken another look at the 5200, and it would have been CURRENT with the arcade scene (close enough).

 

A huge part of the problem were idiot Baby Boomer marketers who had no idea how the younger, game-playing generation felt. They had convinced themselves, a-la "Dilbert", that "video gaming was dead; the future is in COMPUTERS."

 

2008. X-Box 360 and Playstation 3. Will they NOW admit that they didn't know a damn thing?

 

Huh. Not likely.

 

That's why I started this topic. I just found it real curious that Atari would abandon the system after such a short period of time, even the 7800 which had much less of a shot against its competition (NES & SMS) received many more years of support from Atari. Not having owned the system,I can't speak from a personal experience but the games look like they hold their own against the Colecovision and certainly surpass them in terms of audio (even surpassing the 7800!).

 

I think Atari dropped the 5200 too quickly, granted I guess the crash didn't buy them much time but it looks like Atari planned to drop the 5200 anyways, otherwise why else go forward with the 7800? I think Atari should've slimmed down the size of the system (if not for aesthetic reasons, to keep costs down) and released alternate controllers that self-centered and were more durable for people who preferred them.

 

Still I look forward to owning a 5200 soon, and am glad to see that it has some homebrew support, namely in the form of 8-bit conversions. It would be interesting to see how the system could be pushed with some new original titles...