SlySoft on Blu-ray BD+ crack: next time it will be easier

[JamesD]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080...ked-update.html

[MCHufnagel]

How many billions of dollars have been spent (in labs and in congress) taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought? And it only takes hackers months to defeat it!

 

[Underball]

taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought

this is the biggest load of Malarkey ever.

 

people pirate stuff. plain and simple. maybe .001% of people "make backup copies" of movies and CD's.

[Bilnick]

taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought

this is the biggest load of Malarkey ever.

 

people pirate stuff. plain and simple. maybe .001% of people "make backup copies" of movies and CD's.

 

I make backup copies of my DVDs all the time. Especially of kids movies. I don't worry too much about a 5 cent DVD+R being left in the sun in a hot car, or letting my kids use it in thier PC or portable DVD player.

 

I also copy many of my DVDs to my PSP to watch, or rip them to my PC for convenience. (Rather than lugging around multiple DVDs on a trip)

 

When I borrow a DVD from someone I find it much more convenient to rip it and watch later vs keeping their disc until I get around to watching it. I suppose this is technically illegal, but too bad.

 

Sure people pirate stuff, but the media companies inconvenience the vast majority of thier customers with the DRM BS.

 

Count me as part of that .001%

[JamesD]

I rip all my DVDs and convert them to XVid format so that I can play them from my HTPC at any time without hunting for the DVD. I don't have to keep my DVDs out in plain sight and can just put them in storage boxes instead of a bunch of racks (of which I already have too many of).

I do the same sort of thing with my CD's.

Now that I own an XBOX 360 I can play the same files on it across my network.

[JamesD]

How many billions of dollars have been spent (in labs and in congress) taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought? And it only takes hackers months to defeat it!

 

Funny how this was one of the main reasons for HD-DVDs defeat and now it's meaningless.

[MCHufnagel]

taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought

this is the biggest load of Malarkey ever.

 

people pirate stuff. plain and simple. maybe .001% of people "make backup copies" of movies and CD's.

Yet the people who may want to have copies, and don't know their way around the internet can't have them. And the pirates freely copy and distribute.

 

Yes, modern DRM is quit successful!

[MCHufnagel]

I rip all my DVDs and convert them to XVid format so that I can play them from my HTPC at any time without hunting for the DVD. I don't have to keep my DVDs out in plain sight and can just put them in storage boxes instead of a bunch of racks (of which I already have too many of).

I do the same sort of thing with my CD's.

Now that I own an XBOX 360 I can play the same files on it across my network.

This is one of my favorite things about the Xbox 360. We can watch movies/tv shows that we've downloaded from Amazon Unbox or MPEG/Xvid format videos. Same with MP3's and WMA's. It's all good!

[Hyper_Eye]

taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought

this is the biggest load of Malarkey ever.

 

people pirate stuff. plain and simple. maybe .001% of people "make backup copies" of movies and CD's.

 

And for people like me who run Linux or other alternative OS's as our main desktops? Why shouldn't we be able to play media we bought on our computer like anyone else? I fully support these hacks just like I fully supported DeCSS.

[supercat]

And for people like me who run Linux or other alternative OS's as our main desktops? Why shouldn't we be able to play media we bought on our computer like anyone else? I fully support these hacks just like I fully supported DeCSS.

 

Actually, I've posted ages ago in various forums about a way content vendors could have allowed digital video to be handled with greater security for the content vendors but far less CPU power for the users, but unfortunately they use a silly bloated sequence of decrypt-decompress-reencrypt in the PC, followed by decrypt in the monitor. A much easier sequence would have been to create a 'side channel' on the video display that would send encrypted data between the display and the DVD drive. The PC would neither know nor care about the details of the encryption between the two devices. It would just tell the PC or drive what it wanted to display, and shuffle data between the two devices so it could happen.

 

The DRM companies could freely reveal the control protocols and allow people to write drivers for Linux or any other operating system; since the PC wouldn't have to know how to unscramble the data, there wouldn't be anything in the drivers to reverse-engineer.

[Underball]

taking away the rights of the average citizen to be able to make back up copies of software they legally bought

this is the biggest load of Malarkey ever.

 

people pirate stuff. plain and simple. maybe .001% of people "make backup copies" of movies and CD's.

Yet the people who may want to have copies, and don't know their way around the internet can't have them. And the pirates freely copy and distribute.

 

Yes, modern DRM is quit successful!

Big Box Stores like Best Buy and Circuit City have software like DVD X-Copy and the like on their frigging end caps for christ's sake.

 

You don't need to be a 733t H4XXoR to be able to pirate DVD movies anymore, not for a long, long time.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Underball

[Lord Helmet]

All that DRM of any type does is tie the hands of honest users. Pirates will ALWAYS find a way to copy media. It doesn't matter what form that media takes. Just employing DRM assumes that everyone is dishonest. There is simply no good reason to keep an honest user from making a backup of something they have already paid for.

[Underball]

All that DRM of any type does is tie the hands of honest users. Pirates will ALWAYS find a way to copy media. It doesn't matter what form that media takes. Just employing DRM assumes that everyone is dishonest. There is simply no good reason to keep an honest user from making a backup of something they have already paid for.

Most people are dishonest.

 

those who claim they aren't, are lying. Everyone lies. People make "backup copies" for their friends or coworkers all the time. Sure, they aren't as much of a threat as Torrent hosters and FTP pirate hosts, but the principal is the same. You paid a license for ONE copy of the software/movie/music you bought. ONE license. Not as many copies as you like.

 

I understand the reasoning for wanting copies. Portability. backup so you don't damage the original. ease of use, etc. They all make perfect sense to the end user. But They don't make any sense to the manufacturer. the manufacturer/producer is in business to make a profit on units sold, not on how convenient it is for the end user.

 

see how that works?

 

I think the current means of employing DRM are crap, they're clunky, and generally dont' benefit anyone. But the principal behind it makes perfect sense.

[MCHufnagel]

Big Box Stores like Best Buy and Circuit City have software like DVD X-Copy and the like on their frigging end caps for christ's sake.

 

You don't need to be a 733t H4XXoR to be able to pirate DVD movies anymore, not for a long, long time.

Then why even bother with DRM? Why can't I make a copy without a pc using special software? Why can't I just plug a DVD player into a DVD burner and make a copy? I could do this with records, cassette tapes and LD's. Why can't I make copies of commercial tapes and DVD's on my DVR/DVD burner? Like I said the average user gets screwed while pirates do whatever they want. Why do these companies even bother with copy protection? It just doesn't work and will never work.

 

And about your comment about most people being dis-honest. I guess you work for some entertainment company to believe that bullshit.

[Underball]

Big Box Stores like Best Buy and Circuit City have software like DVD X-Copy and the like on their frigging end caps for christ's sake.

 

You don't need to be a 733t H4XXoR to be able to pirate DVD movies anymore, not for a long, long time.

Then why even bother with DRM? Why can't I make a copy without a pc using special software? Why can't I just plug a DVD player into a DVD burner and make a copy? I could do this with records, cassette tapes and LD's. Why can't I make copies of commercial tapes and DVD's on my DVR/DVD burner? Like I said the average user gets screwed while pirates do whatever they want. Why do these companies even bother with copy protection? It just doesn't work and will never work.

 

And about your comment about most people being dis-honest. I guess you work for some entertainment company to believe that bullshit.

because the "average user" outnumbers the pirates by about 4000 to 1.

 

the quick rise in popularity of the internet made distribution of pirated digital material so ridiculously easy, they needed to head it off and stem the tide. If everyone had free reign access to copy this stuff, with the prevalence of the internet in homes now compared to even 10 years ago, Software and entertainment Media manufacturers would be going out of business by the thousand.

 

You could copy records, tapes, LD's etc. 10, 15, 20 years ago, because mass distribution wasn't feasible. Now, it's not only feasible - it's so simple a 5 year old can figure it out.

 

They know it can't be 100% stopped. But if they make it enough of a pain in the ass to copy stuff, MOST people won't bother. and all they care about is MOST people.

[Emehr]

All that DRM of any type does is tie the hands of honest users. Pirates will ALWAYS find a way to copy media. It doesn't matter what form that media takes. Just employing DRM assumes that everyone is dishonest. There is simply no good reason to keep an honest user from making a backup of something they have already paid for.

Most people are dishonest.

 

those who claim they aren't, are lying. Everyone lies. People make "backup copies" for their friends or coworkers all the time. Sure, they aren't as much of a threat as Torrent hosters and FTP pirate hosts, but the principal is the same. You paid a license for ONE copy of the software/movie/music you bought. ONE license. Not as many copies as you like.

Let's say I have a movie on four different formats: Laserdisc, VHS, DVD, and Blu-Ray. I bought the same movie four times. Is that four licenses to the same movie? What if my Laserdisc player clunks out. Can I make a copy of one of the other three formats so I can maintain my status-quo of four licenses? which I paid for?

 

I understand the reasoning for wanting copies. Portability. backup so you don't damage the original. ease of use, etc. They all make perfect sense to the end user. But They don't make any sense to the manufacturer. the manufacturer/producer is in business to make a profit on units sold, not on how convenient it is for the end user.

 

see how that works?

 

I think the current means of employing DRM are crap, they're clunky, and generally dont' benefit anyone. But the principal behind it makes perfect sense.

The music and movie industry have convinced the public to purchase multiple copies of their product on different medium for half a century now, give or take. Music went from records -> 8-tracks -> tapes ->CDs -> digital. Movies went from film -> tape -> Laserdisc -> DVD -> Blu-Ray and they will probably end up going digital too. Where does the medium of audio and video go from there? Will it stay digital, only getting better and better in quality? If so, the studios are going to have a harder and harder time convincing consumers to purchase the same music and movies over and over again since the differences in the overall experience versus the previous incarnation will likely be negligible (as is already happening with DVD vs. Blu-Ray). Thus, they are trying harder and harder to keep their profits up. They think that preventing copying is the way for this to happen and to get pirates to just give up and say, "Fine, I'll just *buy* the stupid movie! Sheesh!". I just don't see this happening. I'm not advocating piracy here, just wishing the studios would try a different tactic like convincing consumers to purchase their product instead of pirating it.

[MCHufnagel]

I hardly think that a home copying system would be used to mass produce media to pass along or sell to others. After all plenty of people can do that now and it isn't happening. What the industry should concentrate on is the factories in 3rd world countries that do mass produce pirateware. Of course someone from the MPAA might get shot in those kinds of places. Much easier to harass home users.

[Underball]

I hardly think that a home copying system would be used to mass produce media to pass along or sell to others. After all plenty of people can do that now and it isn't happening.

Actually - it is happening. It's called the internet. There are literally MILLIONS of people illegally sharing copywritten material every minute of every day. MILLIONS.

 

This is why they've turned to DRM. This is Why the US Justice Department has made such an important focus on such cases.

 

Media producers are losing money compared to decades past, hand over fist. It's also the reason why computer and home console video games still retail at $50+ per unit, even though they now make more money than the Movie industry. They could easily reduce the cost of these games to more competitive prices now that they are all released on optical media, but they don't, because the financial bleeding from pirated versions is negating their profits as is.

 

The casual home user may not care, may not even think its' a big deal. "So what, I shared a copy with my friend, nobody gets hurt!"

 

Some of us actually work in industries where we might get laid off from one day to the next, because pirated media has killed off our firm's profitability. I wish more people thought about that before they copied stuff.

[MCHufnagel]

I find it funny that your industry tosses numbers like millions and billions, but offer no hard data to back it up. If you believe the numbers some people toss around, pirate copies of software just about equals the number of legal copies.

 

And you didn't address either one of my issues. Home users aren't the ones passing around numerous copies of media. If there is a problem with internet piracy, then deal with those sites. Also, what about the issue I brought up about the factories churning out illegal copies in 3rd world countries? They're a far greater problem than a home copier. The entertainment industry loads software up with DRM and hits the consumer market because it's the path of least resistance not because it's the greatest threat.

[Bilnick]

I hardly think that a home copying system would be used to mass produce media to pass along or sell to others. After all plenty of people can do that now and it isn't happening.

Actually - it is happening. It's called the internet. There are literally MILLIONS of people illegally sharing copywritten material every minute of every day. MILLIONS.

 

This is why they've turned to DRM. This is Why the US Justice Department has made such an important focus on such cases.

 

Media producers are losing money compared to decades past, hand over fist. It's also the reason why computer and home console video games still retail at $50+ per unit, even though they now make more money than the Movie industry. They could easily reduce the cost of these games to more competitive prices now that they are all released on optical media, but they don't, because the financial bleeding from pirated versions is negating their profits as is.

 

The casual home user may not care, may not even think its' a big deal. "So what, I shared a copy with my friend, nobody gets hurt!"

 

Some of us actually work in industries where we might get laid off from one day to the next, because pirated media has killed off our firm's profitability. I wish more people thought about that before they copied stuff.

 

Yet many of the pay to download music services on the internet are moving more and more to DRM free.

 

Consumers do not want DRM. The music industry is finally starting to listen and give their customers what they want.

[Reaperman]

Let's say I have a movie on four different formats: Laserdisc, VHS, DVD, and Blu-Ray. I bought the same movie four times. Is that four licenses to the same movie? What if my Laserdisc player clunks out. Can I make a copy of one of the other three formats so I can maintain my status-quo of four licenses? which I paid for?

from what I've managed to piece together, that's a legal no go. Now if you had two dvd copies and one conked out, could you make a copy of the other one assuming there was no copy protection to defeat? I don't know, but I doubt it would keep you out of heaven.

 

I dislike copy protection. When it happened to music all it did was force me away from music in general. That didn't work out too well. But what's forcing me away from movies, is the fact that they're awful. I guess that's a different matter.

 

I sure can't wait to see all these horrid films in blu-ray quality. Oh wait...

[+HammR25]

It's hilarious watching all of the DRM get cracked so quickly.

[MCHufnagel]

Yet many of the pay to download music services on the internet are moving more and more to DRM free.

 

Consumers do not want DRM. The music industry is finally starting to listen and give their customers what they want.

My 13 year old bought some music from both realplayer and AT&TYahoo music. They both have screwed up DRM that prevented him from downloading the music directly to his mp3 player. I had to burn two cd's (one for the realplayer music and one for the yahoo music) for only eight songs total. I then downloaded the cd's to WMP 11. And then we were able to get it to his mp3 player. Stupid fricken companies. I told him to buy from Amazon from now on since they have gotten rid of their DRM.

[supercat]

the quick rise in popularity of the internet made distribution of pirated digital material so ridiculously easy, they needed to head it off and stem the tide. If everyone had free reign access to copy this stuff, with the prevalence of the internet in homes now compared to even 10 years ago, Software and entertainment Media manufacturers would be going out of business by the thousand.

 

If a company wants people to buy its product, it should allow them to experience some real benefit from doing so. Purchase should be fast and easy, and the overall experience (from finding the product to using it) should be better than that of getting an illegitimate copy and using that.

 

IMHO, record companies made a major misstep in trying to act like tough guys. They ensured that they were perceived as evil corporations, and thus many people felt no objection to stiffing them. A better approach would have been to recognize that "sampling" music was fine to a limited extent, but to make clear that people who listened to thousands of copied songs while buying none should be regarded as leeches.

 

Toward that end, rather than trying to use various schemes so that media must be proven authentic in order to be usable, the record companies might have been better served to instead focusing on means by which media could be proven authentic even though it would play regardless. Such optional schemes then would provide a social benefit to the legitimate users without socking them with the hardships imposed by mandatory ones.

 

There is one wrinkle in all this I should mention, btw: to accept digital distribution would have required a significant shift in major record companies' business model. Historically, signing with a record label has been the only way for many bands to get public exposure via the radio cartel. Consequently, the record labels could pay musicians peanuts while they themselves made millions. As things like Internet broadcasting have taken off, it has become possible for many bands to ignore the major labels and manage their own publicity.

 

Of course, that would pose a problem for the major record labels even if none of their records were ever illegally copied. Piracy provides a nice excuse for trying to shut down Internet distribution, but it's not the major driving fear.

[Lord Helmet]

All that DRM of any type does is tie the hands of honest users. Pirates will ALWAYS find a way to copy media. It doesn't matter what form that media takes. Just employing DRM assumes that everyone is dishonest. There is simply no good reason to keep an honest user from making a backup of something they have already paid for.

Most people are dishonest.

 

those who claim they aren't, are lying. Everyone lies. People make "backup copies" for their friends or coworkers all the time. Sure, they aren't as much of a threat as Torrent hosters and FTP pirate hosts, but the principal is the same. You paid a license for ONE copy of the software/movie/music you bought. ONE license. Not as many copies as you like.

 

I understand the reasoning for wanting copies. Portability. backup so you don't damage the original. ease of use, etc. They all make perfect sense to the end user. But They don't make any sense to the manufacturer. the manufacturer/producer is in business to make a profit on units sold, not on how convenient it is for the end user.

 

see how that works?

 

I think the current means of employing DRM are crap, they're clunky, and generally dont' benefit anyone. But the principal behind it makes perfect sense.

 

Even if many or most of the people are dishonest, DRM still only negatively affects those people that want to be honest. Pirates will ALWAYS find a way around DRM. Honesty users get their hands tied because they want to have fair use of their media, but don't want to jump through the hoops that a pirate will to do so.

 

Also, if movies, music, and games were sold at a decent price point, no one would pirate at all

The way you stop piracy is to make media cheap, readily available in the way users want, and allow for fair use.

 

If iTunes or Amazon sold movies for $1-$5 (not a rental, but a purchase) the amount of piracy would decrease drastically because the legal version would be an affordable and readily available alternative. Right now, it is much easier and cheaper for you do DL the torrent of a movie, free of DRM, than it is to go out and buy a DVD. Make the legal version of that same movie cheap, and available to DL through iTunes etc (to own and use where I want), and the legal version becomes much more attractive.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Lord Helmet