Medieval Mayhem 2-brainstoming

[espire8]

Can Medieval Mayhem, Darrell Spice's first successful 2600 homebrew, be done justice with a sequel? This thread is to start discussion for a possible follow up as was suggested by Darrell to myself some time ago. I want to find out if the community would be interested in playing MM2 with some new game play mechanics that I'd like to share, and to hear other possible ideas via this thread so all comments are welcomed and appreicated.

 

Screen mock ups for Medieval Mayhem 2

Hmm - the kernel for MM2 looks like it would be much simpler to do than the one for MM. What would the game play be like?

Probably the same as MM1 including all the original options if that were possible along with new additions like moving king targets that the players can control, a breakout style wall design, new muli-player set ups and end of game ranking.

Well that's the quick and dirty of it, of course there will be new and different animations that I plan to work on and hopefully will have a bit of interaction too.

 

Sound good so far? I listed below in more detail most of the additions I have in mind but nothing set in stone yet without Darrell's approval should he decide to pick this project up.

 

1. New Game play variations - a varaity of 1, 2, 3, and 4 player game set ups for solo, team, two player versus, two player team against a solo player or "every knight for himself" with human and/or computer controlled opponants -including doubles!

 

2. Updated Menu - with new options, new title screen font (w/ matching menu fonts a possibility) and hopefully a new remix version of the original "Druid Chip" music score if Eric is willing to have at it again.

 

3. New Control Scheme with no "Sitting Ducks" - The helmets and crowns that where stationed at the corners in the first game are now replaced with cartoon characters inspired by the original label design and can run left and right across the screen trying to remain behind the player's shield to avoid the fireballs. These now living "moving targets" can be interactively controlled by the movements and position of the player's shield to have their character follow it around and they can even be toggled between following you or standing still by consecutively pressing the paddle's button. This new gameplay element adds a whole new realm of strategy with that classic "dodge ball" style play.

 

4. All New Graphics and Animation -

Scarlet the Dragon returns, sporting a "new look" for this sequel.

There's alot more for the eye to feast on as players get to enjoy the in-game comical antics of the characters as they interact with "shoving" each other back onto their own territory whenever they cross paths. And every victory march (except for last one) will have the ability to be manualy interupted to quickly start the next match by pressing any paddle button to have the dragon crash the procession and "sic" the marching knight away if you get tired of watching it, especially if it's not in your honor! The dragon also would now be susceptable to getting hit by a captured fireball aimed at her before making her exit after a launch --if you want to get back at her for chasing you off earlier! I think it's more fun when players can control some of the character's antics.

 

5. Warrior's End of Game Rankings - This is the feature that I would love to see happen here and will definately set a new goal for the winning player's performance besides just being the last surviver. -Will be great for tournaments too! The rank system may be the same as is found in the manual of the first game and would be displayed I imagine in place of the word "DEMO" during the demo play mode.

 

Hope this all sound enticing to you as it is to me! Although I covered alot of ground here, this is just for discussion to get some reaction to the proposed ideas above. Any other ideas or suggestions that can be added or to improve others that are already mentioned?

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that some features I came up with for the sequel were inspired by the easter eggs in MM1 (the way the player can move the dragon in the credit screen). Also from some of the posted comments i've read scattered around in some obscure threads (wish i can find it again) where one had mentioned that pushing the button during the marching sequence in MM to skip ahead to the next match quickly would have been neat, which I felt was a valid point to concider for the second game (hence, the ability to 'sic' the knight).

So, if you've played or own MM, -what are your impressions or other options for a follow up? Anything that you felt could have been useful in the first game? Anything you liked or not liked? Any certain things you'd like to see remain as the original? such as:

 

-> Should the main menu keep the original font?

 

-> Should the reverse paddle control option on the difficulty switchs remain as is? or be changed out for something else like allowing the shield movement to cover the entire screen width or restrict it to only their corner of the playfield and not allow crossing over the middle?

 

-> Add some missing variation from the first like computer controlled "doubles" for solo play?

These little details are important to address and there may be others I'm not aware of, so if there are, you can post em' here.

Edited March 29, 2008 by espire8

[+SpiceWare]

Wow - love the updated look to Scarlet, you didn't have that in the initial mock up - the new eyes provide a lot more character. The redone title is slick as well.

 

I don't think the reverse paddle option on the difficulty switches would be needed anymore since the shields don't wrap around the castle.

[A Sprite]

Why not? I'll try and throw some suggestions out, since everybody seems intimidated by the thread. Once I fail in every way imaginable to say anything worth saying, the lingering spectacle will give others cover to post their thoughts, since they'll seem like a peacekeeping team flown in from Mensa by comparison.

 

1. Side goals - a scoring mode based on successful volleys, with multipliers the longer it goes on between all players - so people trying to kill each other are also relying on each other. A high scoring game depends on the weakest link.

 

2. Can some form of pinball level be made with that engine? Imagine a bonus round where everyone is essentially playing a mobile flipper. Except it doesn't flip. It just runs around, sort of, like a speeding tank skating on greased ice. I think. I've never played your game before, so really, I shouldn't be making suggestions, and you shouldn't be reading past this point.

 

3. What if you could conquer an enemy you beat, gaining and losing kingdoms until the board is entirely under one flag? Kingdoms under your flag can gain their freedom by killing the one who killed them, thus perpetuating an endless cycle of violence between clans that could spill over into the real world, turning an innocent game of handball into a blood sport, and earning you free publicity.

Edited April 2, 2008 by A Sprite

[joeybastard]

Medieval Mayhem is so damn good, I'm not sure it needs a sequel! The only thing I would suggest would be a boss fight at the end of a regular round. It could be sort of like Breakout but you're trying to hit the dragon while she spits fireballs at you. You'd have to keep from missing your own fireball while dodging getting hit by hers. Once you conquer her, then it moves to the next round.

Edited April 3, 2008 by joeybastard

[espire8]

Why not? I'll try and throw some suggestions out, since everybody seems intimidated by the thread.

 

1. Side goals - a scoring mode based on successful volleys,

There's an easter egg idea. I'm not certain about sude goals so how about the characters engaged in a game of "handball" as players try not to miss their serve using the fireball against the AI dragon. Don't know if it's a far fetched idea but I did a mock up anyway.

I've never played your game before, so really, I shouldn't be making suggestions

You can play it on the stella emulator. The MM bin is available for download in the development thread.

 

 

The only thing I would suggest would be a boss fight at the end of a regular round. It could be sort of like Breakout but you're trying to hit the dragon while she spits fireballs at you. You'd have to keep from missing your own fireball while dodging getting hit by hers. Once you conquer her, then it moves to the next round.

Your idea remind me of a very rare bug I discovered in MM when playing without the castle walls ("No Man's Land" easter egg); where if three of the players got knocked out by fireballs before the dragon made it's exit, she would come back in the screen and fire 2 or 3 superfast fireballs that ricochade all over the place for several seconds until the dragon exited the side again. If the remaining player protected his king until the dragon disappeared, the round would end and continue the next match as normal. But if the last king got hit, ALL the players would be eliminated for that match and no score was awarded to anyone for the round! That was one of the coolest bugs I ever witness and the closest to what you described as a boss fight, which I think can be a good difficulty switch option that can be triggered if any single player makes 2 or 3 consecutive wins.

 

Medieval Mayhem is so damn good, I'm not sure it needs a sequel!

Well, this thread is suppose to encourage possible development for MM2 and to get some outside input for a starting point as I don't want to come across as if my ideas are the best, I'd rather to see what others think of them first, but so far only 2 replies, which I'm sure will help in some way, but if that's all I get, then ..is everyone okay with the proposed ideas so far?

[supercat]

Thought I'd responded to this thread already, but maybe not.

 

I like the idea of having players at the top and bottom, but I think it would be mainly useful for a team game. Actually, even if each side just had one paddle and one 'king', that could be good for a team game if the position of the king affected the trajectory of balls hit by the paddle (e.g. if balls hit by a side would accelerate horizontally toward the position of its king). This would put the player controlling the king into a delicate position of balancing offense and defense, particularly in multiple-ball play.

[Dino]

what about a round where there's no catching and the ball starts off slow and with every hit it gets incrementally faster until its insanely fast or until it hits a brick and then it slows down again. the speed then picks up again with every hit.

[espire8]

Thought I'd responded to this thread already, but maybe not.

 

I like the idea of having players at the top and bottom, but I think it would be mainly useful for a team game. Actually, even if each side just had one paddle and one 'king', that could be good for a team game if the position of the king affected the trajectory of balls hit by the paddle (e.g. if balls hit by a side would accelerate horizontally toward the position of its king). This would put the player controlling the king into a delicate position of balancing offense and defense, particularly in multiple-ball play.

That's a very interesting thought - "the position of the king affecting the trajectory of balls hit by the paddle" - I think that's a great feature that can be used even in solo play. I don't know if you're suggesting that the king character be a separately controlled sprite ie: P1=top paddle shield; P2=top king character; P3=bottom paddle shield; P4=bottom warlord character. An interesting muli-player twist I'll investigate utilizing in some game variations, the trajectory kings idea, that's neat!

 

what about a round where there's no catching and the ball starts off slow and with every hit it gets incrementally faster until its insanely fast or until it hits a brick and then it slows down again. the speed then picks up again with every hit.

Hmm.. that got me thinking. Perhaps in addition to the "no catch" idea and fireball "flare up" (destroying some of your own castle walls) maybe by catching a fireball a player can control it's propulsion in relation to how long it's held, ie: catching and releasing the ball within 1 sec will launch the ball in full-insane speed (ball becomes white and a little larger in size when launched in insane speed?) and immediately returns to normal speed setting upon first colliding with a king or being caught by another shield. The longer the ball is held, (say, every second?) the slower the ball's speed when finally launched (From Insane speed, Fast, Medium, to Slow) 4 seconds elapse to launch at the slowest speed it looks like. This feature can be included in the Catch option listed as Turbo along with Yes, No, and Limited.

[supercat]

That's a very interesting thought - "the position of the king affecting the trajectory of balls hit by the paddle" - I think that's a great feature that can be used even in solo play. I don't know if you're suggesting that the king character be a separately controlled sprite ie: P1=top paddle shield; P2=top king character; P3=bottom paddle shield; P4=bottom warlord character. An interesting muli-player twist I'll investigate utilizing in some game variations, the trajectory kings idea, that's neat!

 

Well, for two people playing each other you could have each paddle control one shield and one king. Giving each player a shield and a king could also work, though that would make it necessary to support different ball colors (so it was clear which balls were controlled by which player). Maybe you could have one player control a shield and a king while the other controls just a shield.

Edited April 11, 2008 by supercat

[Math You]

I had this idea that Scarlett could throw a dragons egg into the playfield that would hatch into a baby dragon. The baby dragon would then damage one of the the players walls with it's firey breath.

 

The players would have to hit the egg towards the other players before it hatched, to prevent the baby dragon from damaging their own wall..

[A Sprite]

but so far only 2 replies, which I'm sure will help in some way, but if that's all I get, then ..is everyone okay with the proposed ideas so far?

 

My theory - your ideas are at least good enough that everyone's already decided they are a final game design document. Nothing will stop us from going forward with that assumption until we hear an alternative plan from you, the programmer, or Jesus.

 

That's how much respect you command.

 

Back to the part where the fans just shout suggestions since we don't have to actually program anything ...

 

1. How about a penalty if you hold the ball for too long, perhaps temporarily blowing up the player's defender? Just so that there's tension at higher levels of play, and rookies will find it hard to delay the game for the other players.

 

2. Single player easter egg scoring mode - time attack and golf score. Win in the fastest possible time, or in the fewest possible turns. Or both.

 

3. A victory screen for Scarlet, where she eats all the player characters (or simply chases them if we're sensitive to the plight of tiny pixel people), one by one, while a happy jingle celebrates her accomplishment...?

 

4. Find a decent writer to include all kinds of fun stories and trivia in the instruction manual - maybe even create a comic book. This has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself, but neither did half of anything that the people programming classic games did to entertain themselves ...and just as often, the player.

Edited April 11, 2008 by A Sprite

[mos6507]

This is cool but I'm still waiting on a game that lets you control the dragon directly.

[A Sprite]

This is cool but I'm still waiting on a game that lets you control the dragon directly.

 

Pretty please?

[Math You]

This is cool but I'm still waiting on a game that lets you control the dragon directly.

Pretty please?

Great idea

[+SpiceWare]

This is cool but I'm still waiting on a game that lets you control the dragon directly.

Wing War

[Impaler_26]

This is cool but I'm still waiting on a game that lets you control the dragon directly.

Dragon Defender

[A Sprite]

Is Scarlet a hidden character? Give me the code.

[+SpiceWare]

Is Scarlet a hidden character? Give me the code.

Probably not exactly you're asking for; but, you can indirectly control Scarlet in one of the Easter Eggs

[lost child]

I don't know if the mock screenshot is possible on the 2600, so I'm probably opening myself to a flame or whatever, but...

 

It might be fun if your character could let down his guard shortly to rebuild his wall. To do this, the player would simply hold down the button and the man would leave his shield behind to collect bricks and rebuild (illustrated by the red player in the mock screen). Releasing the button would make the man pick up his shield again and return to the action.

 

[+SpiceWare]

I originally planned on a rebuild option, it was dropped early on. My idea was you'd have to turn all the way left, wait for a "flash"(shield blink white), then all the way right and wait for another flash to randomly rebuild 1 brick. It would have also worked right-left. Depending on how that worked I might have changed it to left-right-left and right-left-right.

 

The mockup is neat, but not possible. The middle section only has enough CPU time to draw the dragon and 1 fireball. It takes so much CPU time because the dragon is drawn using both sprites, plus each sprite is shifted left or right on every single scan line.

[espire8]

Well, for two people playing each other you could have each paddle control one shield and one king. Giving each player a shield and a king could also work, though that would make it necessary to support different ball colors (so it was clear which balls were controlled by which player). Maybe you could have one player control a shield and a king while the other controls just a shield.

I like that approch, makes for many different team player combinations.

 

I had this idea that Scarlett could throw a dragons egg into the playfield that would hatch into a baby dragon. The baby dragon would then damage one of the the players walls with it's firey breath.

 

The players would have to hit the egg towards the other players before it hatched, to prevent the baby dragon from damaging their own wall..

Interesting. Like a game of hot potato. Maybe a good idea to have one of the fireballs with a different shape and color that can act like an egg timebomb and will bounce around the playfield harmlessly (not taking any bricks away) behaving as the other fireballs, and which ever corner shield it touches twice the first time (all shields can deflect or catch it only once) therefore will cause it to detnoate and damage the player's wall via the "flare up" damage at maximum extention for a brief period.

 

but so far only 2 replies, which I'm sure will help in some way, but if that's all I get, then ..is everyone okay with the proposed ideas so far?

 

My theory - your ideas are at least good enough that everyone's already decided they are a final game design document.

That's how much respect you command.

Thanks A sprite, but I don't mind if anyone like to suggest an idea that can improve on or even replace any of my own ideas. I'm as much a fan of the first MM as anyone else would be; only difference is I helped with the graphics --but Darrell did most of the hard work progamming it. My efforts are all in vain without him. That's how much respect he commands.

Basicaly, I'm in the same end-user boat as all of you are, just a little more involved is all. However, if any game, in this case a sequel, is worth the time to program depends heavily if there's a large enough base audience to justify the effort and very encouraging to hear from.

 

 

1. How about a penalty if you hold the ball for too long, perhaps temporarily blowing up the player's defender?

The fireball "flare ups" destroys some of the brick if you hold it too long. Maybe a second level penalty for allowing the flare up to maximize it's spinning diameter that it makes the shield temporarily blow up or just freeze in place for a few moments?

 

2. Single player easter egg scoring mode - time attack and golf score. Win in the fastest possible time, or in the fewest possible turns. Or both.

I think the End of Game Ranking would serve that up even in muli-player mode.

 

3. A victory screen for Scarlet, where she eats all the player characters (or simply chases them if we're sensitive to the plight of tiny pixel people), one by one, while a happy jingle celebrates her accomplishment...?

lol ..now sounds different from the first version. Maybe just put the crown on her own head during the procession.

 

4. Find a decent writer to include all kinds of fun stories and trivia in the instruction manual - maybe even create a comic book. This has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself, but neither did half of anything that the people programming classic games did to entertain themselves ...and just as often, the player.

Here's a trivia for you - Did you know that a comic book style manual with a storyline to match the game was in progress for the first MM but never completed in time before the xmas deadline? I think you just figured out my intention for a sequel.

 

This is cool but I'm still waiting on a game that lets you control the dragon directly.

Pretty please?

Great idea

 

 

To make Scarlet controlable in MM2? not sure that will work in the main gameplay. Maybe in the easter egg?

 

It might be fun if your character could let down his guard shortly to rebuild his wall. To do this, the player would simply hold down the button and the man would leave his shield behind to collect bricks and rebuild (illustrated by the red player in the mock screen). Releasing the button would make the man pick up his shield again and return to the action.

 

 

You know, the more I think about it, the more that seem an excellent idea. To have the characters actualy trying to build back the wall at the risk of getting hit. Thanks for the input lost child. Although the mock up you have is not doable, here's how I think your idea can work with the layout I have:

 

Pushing the button will cause the character to panic and rebuild holes by running to tag one side of the screen where one brick is picked up and then races back to tag his own corner to drop it where it randomly fills a gap in the wall and the character keeps this up until the button is pressed again where he will stop and follow your shield again.

I was thinking earlier that the kings would have the ability to deflect a fireball on it's own for one hit and be vulnerably stunned for a second before recovering, but if another hit is made while stunned, he'd be eliminated. A rule could be applied that any king carring a brick back to his corner can be eliminated with a single fireball hit. Another rule for the fireball is that once it breaches a wall, every time it hits the very top or bottom of the screen, the fireball will become "non-detructive" for a single brick hit and will "swap" the next brick it hits to randomly fill the wall in the opposite side and then returns to destructive mode again. It's possible that multiple "brick swapping" can occur if the ball repeatedly hits the same far end of the screen and the breached wall until it rebounds out from where it entered. This is sort of like doing an automatic combo of wall damage to a player if you can get your fireball pass inside your opponant's wall. Who's ever shield was the last to hit the "swaping" fireball, their's is the wall that gets rebuilt for every brick the opposite side loses.

 

I think Darrell's rebuild option can be used as a separate feature here (can't combine it with the catch feature) as an alternative gameplay selection since we only got one button per controller.

Edited April 15, 2008 by espire8

[A Sprite]

To make Scarlet controlable in MM2? not sure that will work in the main gameplay. Maybe in the easter egg?

 

Think a mascot game - Scarlet's the closest to being the Mario of AtariAge, and the 2600 never really had a mascot of it's own during it's lifetime.

 

Nor did any of it's other systems..

 

...unless we count Scrapyard Dog.

 

Or the hungry ducks from Adventure...?

 

That said, she'd make a perfect Easter egg...

Edited April 16, 2008 by A Sprite

[A Sprite]

Having now seen the game in action, I'm still convinced your suggestions for the sequel are much better than many games actually programmed.

 

I stand by my earlier comments.

 

But here - I'll take a shot at making up a sequel, just so you know you weren't selected based on apathy.

 

Add Tron Deadly Disks into the mix.

 

Lose the castles. Move the action out into the a battle between knights. They have shields to defend themselves, and can run freely all over the map by releasing the shield button. Behind them, in the next screens on all four sides, are the missing castles. If a knight is stunned, and then hit with the fireball, the action immediately moves to their castle, where defenders do their best to save the king inside the thin walls from the other players...

 

Edit: Almost forgot Scarlet - make her a randomly reoccuring boss battle on the first screen.

Edited April 16, 2008 by A Sprite

[A Sprite]

And just like that, interest in the project died.

 

It proves my point.

 

We don't have any better ideas.

 

Accept that you are the chosen one.