Games you wish appeared on the Jaguar....

[spiffyone]

Even if they had sped it up and smoothed it out, I think fighters are probably one of the trickiest games to get the gameplay mechanics and balance right in.

 

 

As with any genre really. But fighting games in 3D takes a lot of time to learn those

kenimatics apps for doing all the poses. I just recently got Poser 6 and it's no walk

in the park.

 

It's a little more than that. Key thing in fighters, whether 2D or 3D, is the fighting engine. That is, how moves connect, hit boxes, move buffers, combo

system, block/evade system, priorities, etc. It's the reason Capcommies can't get into SNK fighters, SNKult members can't get into Capcom fighters, etc. (and those nicknames, btw, are for respective fanboys, who refuse to really try anything new...open minded folk like myself are fans of both, but not fanboys).

 

From the little that I played FFL, I thought the overall engine needed a ton of polish. There were some great ideas there. I think it might've been one of the first 3D fighters with side step, and certainly is one of the first with crouch walk. Could've opened up a ton of possibilities for battles. But the moves themselves felt sluggish, and so whatever depth is in there is most likely overlooked by most gamers, including myself.

 

Personally, as much as I don't dig Mortal Kombat, I know it was a system seller at the time for some, and it has the nostalgia factor in that Midway, developers of the arcade game, bought the remnants of Atari Games, Atari's old arcade outfit. Would've been a pretty cool fit for an Atari console, no?

 

That and Cruisin' USA, which I don't think was totally out of the realm of possibility for Jaguar.

 

And, of course, NBA Jam. 'Cause, honestly, who didn't like that game in the '90s?

[sd32]

Almost every home console got a Street Fighter game, even the Amiga CD32 got one!, even if it was a disaster (great music anyway), what the heck went wrong with that port, have you guys tried it?

But oh no, we Jag fans didnt get a SF game, even though the Jag was probably the only console capable of a perfect arcade conversion (lack of ram migh have been a problem?) back when it came out . Maybe 64 bit systems are too advanced for that type of game , N64 also didnt get one, remember?

How about a Turrican game, with Native quality graphics!

I would also have liked to see the Jag do Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter and see how they would compare to the 32X ports. Atari had permission to do Sega games, right?

[The_Laird]

And, of course, NBA Jam. 'Cause, honestly, who didn't like that game in the '90s?

 

Does NBA Jam: TE for the Jaguar not count then?

[Gorf]

And, of course, NBA Jam. 'Cause, honestly, who didn't like that game in the '90s?

 

 

Er...um...me! not into video game Sports. However, NBA Jam:TE was a nice use of the Jaguar

even if only 2D.

 

Im going to bring many classic based games to the Jaguar once the tools suite is finished. I'd like

to start at the top of the List of all Atari arcade hits and do versions of them.

[sd32]

Im going to bring many classic based games to the Jaguar once the tools suite is finished. I'd like

to start at the top of the List of all Atari arcade hits and do versions of them.

 

 

Having more 3d remakes of the Atari arcade library would make the Jag the coolest console ever!!

 

A Warioware type of game would also be very nice to have on our Jag.

[Gorf]

Im going to bring many classic based games to the Jaguar once the tools suite is finished. I'd like

to start at the top of the List of all Atari arcade hits and do versions of them.

 

 

Having more 3d remakes of the Atari arcade library would make the Jag the coolest console ever!!

 

A Warioware type of game would also be very nice to have on our Jag.

 

 

I for one dont do Nintendo...I'm talking in the tradition of Atari and Midway and Stern and Williams.

Obviously, They will be 'inspired by' these old titles but not these titles exatcly.

 

You've seen the list of our games in progress. If not.....

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105559

[Gorf]

Yikes.....just reading that link again I realize there is hardly any description.

I'll have to post a blurb for those.

[spiffyone]

And, of course, NBA Jam. 'Cause, honestly, who didn't like that game in the '90s?

 

Does NBA Jam: TE for the Jaguar not count then?

 

I look at the TE game we got on Jag as a port of not the arcade version, but the Genesis version with some visual upgrades.

 

It wasn't arcade perfect.

 

And that's what I wanted, and it's something that the Jag could definitely have run arcade perfect.

[Fredifredo]

I look at the TE game we got on Jag as a port of not the arcade version, but the Genesis version with some visual upgrades.

 

Yes ! with 32 colors too and Little dirty sprites.... lol...

 

Virtua Tennis 3 is a port of Pong with some visual upgrades...

[Thorsten Günther]

There was a hell-raiser looking fps that rebellion was developing using the next generation of their avp engine, I would have LOVED to have seen that game finished

 

I have such a hard time believing Rebellion capable of producing anything 'next generation' when they had to be lockied in a basement to finish CF and then said that was the best they could do. Among other things.

 

CF - like too many Jaguar titles - looks like an unfinished beta with it's screwed-up controls, bad f/x and music, but remember that Rebellion also did AVP and Skyhammer. Personally, I wish some more of Peter Molyneux' games aside from Theme Park were published on the Jag (Magic Carpet and Dungeon Keeper, esp.) or some decent other RTS ("Starcraft" on the Jag would have been a dream). OTOH, some of the most advanced 2D Amiga titles like "Lionheart" or "Deliverance" also would have impressed me on the Jag.

 

 

Thorsten

[Gorf]

CF - like too many Jaguar titles - looks like an unfinished beta with it's screwed-up controls, bad f/x and music, but remember that Rebellion also did AVP and Skyhammer. Personally, I wish some more of Peter Molyneux' games aside from Theme Park were published on the Jag (Magic Carpet and Dungeon Keeper, esp.) or some decent other RTS ("Starcraft" on the Jag would have been a dream). OTOH, some of the most advanced 2D Amiga titles like "Lionheart" or "Deliverance" also would have impressed me on the Jag.

 

 

More games should have used the RISC's extensively instead of trying to get the 68k

to run everything. What kills me is you can throw together a 3D game on the Jag of

the caliper of CF in a week or two using the 68k. So I ask, why did all these 3D titles

take forever to develope and still only be 68k driven? I could convert any 68k code

to GPU risc on the fly. IT's like I've always said. The developers did more to destroy

the Jaguar's rep then even the Tramiels did. The trouble is we did have a bunch of

Amiga/ST coders and this is what we we rewarded with. Coders too lazy and not at

all willing to code the JAg the way the system was designed for. They treated it like

a Genny and the RISC's like video and sound processors. The Tramiels? They should

have never accepted the titles but they also should have never allowed the 68k to be

coded in the main loop. They also should have had proper tools to allow easier coding

of the riscs.

 

That's all goin to change Jag fans and developers. The tools are being completed even

in my abscense and they are already generating automatic GPU main code. There is

also a mid level language in the works. We hope this will help as well.

[Do The Math]

I always thought it'd make sense to have the following on the Jag (or Jag CD):

 

Magic Carpet

Theme Hospital

Mortal Kombat III

At LEAST one more RPG/Adventure game (besides Towers II)

Doom II

[Gorf]

I always thought it'd make sense to have the following on the Jag (or Jag CD):

 

Magic Carpet

Theme Hospital

Mortal Kombat III

At LEAST one more RPG/Adventure game (besides Towers II)

Doom II

 

 

And it would have done little to help. It would have been another wanna be console.

 

The Jag games should have followed in the thinking(if not so much the execution of)

Games like CyberMorph, I-War, BattleSphere and updates to games like

MC3D and Tempest 2k were. All different and unique. Some networking would

have helped too.

 

HoverStrike? I love the game but it should NOT have replaced BattleZone. It could have

been another good game along side it. If you are too busy being a wannabee, you'll never

impress above the wannabees.

 

More importantly, games were not Atari's problem. The dev kit did more to destroy them.

They would have got other developers...oh and BTW, there is a list of over 300 that signed

up. Once they saw what they had to deal with to make it happen, and seeing the Sony and

N64 on the horizon, its no wonder why they all turned tail and ran.

 

Atari would have ruled with there classic title updates if they had the right tools and porper

in house support. They did not need to be everyone else....they Were are and always will

be Atari. No matter how bad owners may trash the name, it still live today and it will long

after.

 

I still hope to see a future with a floating fuji billboard.

[DracIsBack]

CF - like too many Jaguar titles - looks like an unfinished beta with it's screwed-up controls, bad f/x and music, but remember that Rebellion also did AVP and Skyhammer.

 

Hammer ... nail ... head!

 

I agree that CF sucked, but I don't think it's fair to say "Checkered Flag was the best they could do". They did better on the Jaguar ... both Alien Vs. Predator and Skyhammer are substantially more impressive games.

[82-T/A]

there were 3do fans acting superior over that game? It was the worst abortion I think I've ever played. Lazy controls and that guy who just wouldn't shut up about himself. no 3do couldn't handle that game either...

 

Take it off of the beginner's settings. On the pro setting, with all manual control, the speed of the cars takes a dramatic upturn. Pretty fast, and intense (for the time, of course) racing action.

 

As much as I think the game is a tad overrated, fact is that it's far better than any racer that appeared on the Jag, and far better than just about any racer that appeared before it that wasn't made by Sega (or Atari in the arcades).

 

That said, it ain't Sega Rally, and it ain't (wait for it...wait for it) RRRIIIIIIIDDDDGGGEEEE RRRRRAAAACCCCEEERRR!

 

lol

 

I still get a chuckle from Sony's debacle of a PS3 unveiling. The stuff of legends.

 

 

Man, you guys are forgetting Power Drive Rally. That game was awesome!

[DracIsBack]

Man, you guys are forgetting Power Drive Rally. That game was awesome!

 

I loved it, though it really wasn't a visual spectacle at the time. It looked like a sharper Moto Rotor on the TG-16 but didn't use the TEAM TAP the way MOTO ROTOR did with the TG-16 5 player attachment.

[Gorf]

CF - like too many Jaguar titles - looks like an unfinished beta with it's screwed-up controls, bad f/x and music, but remember that Rebellion also did AVP and Skyhammer.

 

Hammer ... nail ... head!

 

I agree that CF sucked, but I don't think it's fair to say "Checkered Flag was the best they could do". They did better on the Jaguar ... both Alien Vs. Predator and Skyhammer are substantially more impressive games.

 

 

These are games that should have been given the first attention. Imagine in the first 6 months seeing

T2k, AvP, SkyHammer, BattleSphere and a networked I-war. Atari would have tripled console sales.

Six more months of developing the system would have made a very big difference. The 32X nor the

3DO would not have mattered eevn if out first. The 64 bit's would have been more believable. Cyber-

Morph was a really good pack in even though it too looks unfinished but Tempest 2k would have really

rocked as pack in.

[Do The Math]

I always thought it'd make sense to have the following on the Jag (or Jag CD):

 

Magic Carpet

Theme Hospital

Mortal Kombat III

At LEAST one more RPG/Adventure game (besides Towers II)

Doom II

 

 

And it would have done little to help. It would have been another wanna be console.

 

The Jag games should have followed in the thinking(if not so much the execution of)

Games like CyberMorph, I-War, BattleSphere and updates to games like

MC3D and Tempest 2k were. All different and unique. Some networking would

have helped too.

 

HoverStrike? I love the game but it should NOT have replaced BattleZone. It could have

been another good game along side it. If you are too busy being a wannabee, you'll never

impress above the wannabees.

 

More importantly, games were not Atari's problem. The dev kit did more to destroy them.

They would have got other developers...oh and BTW, there is a list of over 300 that signed

up. Once they saw what they had to deal with to make it happen, and seeing the Sony and

N64 on the horizon, its no wonder why they all turned tail and ran.

 

Atari would have ruled with there classic title updates if they had the right tools and porper

in house support. They did not need to be everyone else....they Were are and always will

be Atari. No matter how bad owners may trash the name, it still live today and it will long

after.

 

I still hope to see a future with a floating fuji billboard.

 

I agree with you that Jaguar would run the risk of being labeled a "me too" system if it ONLY had ports of other systems' games but I think it is crucial to a console's success to have a certain amount of cross-platform titles in order to get consumers interested in your system.

 

What I mean to say is that is that it makes a system more "legitimate" when you see outside publishers supporting a system with their licenses or their input directly. If the only publisher on the Wii was mainly Nintendo do you think as MANY people would buy it? No, because gamers like knowing that a system has a healthy dose of 3rd part developers creating games for it. Nintendo (and Atari in this case) may be good for making a few good titles here and there during a console lifespan but not everything will be a gem and no one would want ONLY 1st party games because inevitably quality control WOULD become an issue if a company feels rushed to fill up its entire catalog alone (I think this happened w/ the Jag).

 

Let's also not forget that unless you have a lot of positive publicity regarding those new series / unique titles that lack a big name attachment, it will be very hard to convince the average consumer to plunk down $40 or $50 for it. The gaming press back then never really wanted to give the Jag coverage, from what I remember.

[spiffyone]

The trouble is we did have a bunch of Amiga/ST coders and this is what we we rewarded with.

 

Yet another reason they should've gone with Panther release in '91 as originally planned instead of

rushing forward with Jaguar, which was still in the building/planning stages. Yeah, it was progressing

ahead of schedule...but they should've taken that opportunity to build it better, with better components,

and wait for the price of said components and manufacturing to drop, then release it later at a lower price.

 

And why do I say the ST coders thing is another reason for Panther in '91, as planned?

 

Panther apparently had a bit in common with the ST. And the ST, at the time, was still a pretty damn

impressive gaming PC.

 

At the very least they would've gotten ST ports when ST ports would've mattered, and best versions of the

16-bit console titles when that would've meant something. Yeah, Jag got some of the better ports of SNES

and Genesis games...but it was a 64-bit system according to Atari. Ports of 16-bit titles, no matter how much

better didn't have a great impact on Jag sales. In fact, I think it had a negative effect on Jag's image, and

therefore the sales.

 

Coders too lazy and not atall willing to code the JAg the way the system was designed for. They

treated it likea Genny and the RISC's like video and sound processors.

 

Exactly.

 

Hence, the Tramiels are to blame for having not one friggin' shred of market sense.

 

Wanna know one big reason why devs treated it like a Genesis on 'roids?

 

Because in '93, when Jag was launched, Genesis and SNES ruled the roost. The 16-bit gen was hitting

its stride at that point. It wasn't waning. Hell, it didn't really start waning until early '96 (little known fact:

Genesis and SNES outsold Saturn and PSone during the latter two's first year on market world-wide).

 

Jag was released too soon. Too soon in terms of technology and tools, but more importantly too soon

in terms of the dynamics of the market at that point. Because it was released too soon, devs played the

safe route: port over existing titles from the consoles hitting their stride in sales. Didn't help that Jag had

a 68k, just like Genesis.

 

The Tramiels? They shouldhave never accepted the titles but they also should have never allowed

the 68k to becoded in the main loop. They also should have had proper tools to allow easier coding

of the riscs.

 

No. The Tramiels should've never done a lot more than that.

 

They should've never shortchanged Tom and Jerry with that stock 68k from the get go. They should've

at least gone 68020, if not a MIPS 3000 like in the later CoJag units. Or, as you've stated you prefer,

another proprietary RISC based on the same design as Tom and Jerry.

 

They also should've never rushed the unit onto market. Doing so left them with a console with bad tools.

 

And, as you are well aware, IMHO they should've never shipped Jag in '93 to begin with and should've

never cancelled the plans for Panther. Panther in '91, right around the SNES launch, Jag in, say, '95.

Panther was finished. More finished than Jag was. But the Tramiels saw that Jag was progressing faster

than expected (again, not faster than Panther, just faster than they thought Jag would) and jumped the

gun with rushed hardware, bugs, and bad tools.

 

Like children they were. Always ready to jump the gun. Release Panther in '91, build a sizable base (hey, it

might've even secured a close 2nd if things went Atari's way) and then release a finished, better built Jag in

'95. Hell, include backwards compatibility, as Panther was planned to have with Lynx (and Sega should've and

probably could've had with Saturn playing Genesis games if they wanted to), and they'd be assured some carry-

over of fans into the new gen.

[Pete5125]

Look, at the time the Panther would of came out as a 32 bit system looking like a supped up 16 bit system that the SNES was creating games that lookes close to it. The Jag was the best option at the time, remeber the Lynx was out in late 1989, yet being the only color 16bit system Atari had a hard time w/ the war against GameBoy. Think the lynx actualy looked 16bit and had rotation and good/descent arcade translations. Atari's biggest hurdle was getting retail outlets to sell their units.

 

Their is no way that Atari would of had a chance under their bad management to win w/ a 32Bit system in early 91 when Sonic was #1, Mario was #2, and Bonk was looking like he may have a chance.

 

The Jag actualy could of succeeded as is if they would of just paid the developers so they could get finished games....look at Checkerd Flag other than horrid control and no 2 player mode for the time it was as good or better than the game it was copying VR RAcer. Cybermorph was good it just needed a little more tweeking to be great.....If Atari would of not wasted money launching an add-on(JAG-CD) to a system that was not a hit....spent that money getting Arcade Perfect MK, MK2, MK3, Street Fighter 2, Batman Arcade, Area 51, etc.

 

If Atari could of had an Arcade Perfect Mortal Kombat 3 as a Pack in w/ the system and a Arcade Stick sold it for $150 or less then the system at that point is saved. That game at that time was so popular that it was one of the big reasons that PS1 outsold Saturn during the 1st year...It made a deal to br the only next gen system for 6 months....did the same w/ Jag's supposed mascot RAYMAN as well.

 

The Wii at this point I don't think anyone realy cares about any other game then the Sports Pak it is the perfect game to show off the system....and at least 1/2 the people that buy the system only to have Bowling.

[sd32]

Pete5125, i disagree with you, Checkered Flag wasnt even close to being as good or better than Virtua Racing, be it the arcade or Genesis version. I guess you havent played them in a while, Checkered Flag has too many issues, it just doesnt come close to that Sega racer.

I agree about Cybermorph, it seems like it needed just a little more time on the oven to be a truly great game. Should have been closer to Battlemorph but without the benefits of the cd media.

I would have been very happy with more updated classics, even if at the end they wouldnt have saved the Jaguar.

I dont know if Atari had the resources to pull the kind of deals Sony made with the Capcoms, Konamis, etc., but maybe Atari should have tried for a deal with a smaller, but very popular company like SNK. King of Fighters, Pulstar and Metal Slug anyone?, 2d nirvana!. Maybe even with some color pallete and slowdown improvements, thanks to the Jags superior 2d muscle when compared with the Neo Geo.

Edited May 29, 2008 by sd32

[+remowilliams]

Pete5125, i disagree with you, Checkered Flag wasnt even close to being as good or better than Virtua Racing, be it the arcade or Genesis version. I guess you havent played them in a while, Checkered Flag has too many issues, it just doesnt come close to that Sega racer.

Absolutely! Virtua Racing was (and is) a true golden classic. CF is ultimately a screaming turd, no matter how anyone tries to polish it.

[sd32]

I look at the TE game we got on Jag as a port of not the arcade version, but the Genesis version with some visual upgrades.

 

It wasn't arcade perfect.

 

And that's what I wanted, and it's something that the Jag could definitely have run arcade perfect.

 

Oh man!, i really had high hopes for NBA Jam TE, and now i read this . This exactly how i felt after playing the Jaguars port of Primal Rage, like it could have been much more , its worse than the 3DO version and that console suposedly had no 2d hardware from what i have heard. For Gods sake, we need a game that shows the Jaguars awesome 2d muscle, besides Rayman and Native, and i get a feeling that even those are only scratching the surface of what the Jag could do in the 2d realm.

There is always so much talk about the jag unreached potential in the 3d realm, but the Jag coders say that in 2d it was better than PS1, Saturn and N64!!. Man think about what it could have done!

I hope that Legion Force Jidai, if its still being worked on, will give us a glimpse of what the Jag could do in 2d. A combination of Metal Slug with the Zenki anime, is what i have read of it . Metal Slug Jag style, hell yeah!!

[Gorf]

Releasing the Panther would have been a blunder. A big fat juicey blunder. IT would have impressed no one.

I have the nets to that machine too. IT would have suffered a terrible PR fate against Sega and Nintendo.

It was not a leap and hardly a grave improvement. IT was nothing more than a Neo Geo with different chips.

 

Jaguar was the smart move. The way they went about it was not.

 

In fact the PAnther was nothing more than a 68k with an OPL and sound chip.

 

Jaguar even in its unfinished state would have been fine is they simply had

BrainStorm and FlareII locked in the same room during development, and

only software developers allowed in. No tramiels....everything the stuck thier

fat noses in where they should not have fell to shit.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Gorf

[Gorf]

Petey, I love ya bro but CF is 'How not to make a video game 101'.

Air Cars = 'How not to make a video game 202'.

 

The Jaguar was given some pretty horrible shit. CF and Air cars are probably the worst.