Actionuats price tag ?

[StanJr]

Just to be sure I have read this thread correctly: Rob Fulop wants me to pay him $80 for an admittedly sub-par game. Not only do I not have $80 for a modern game, I do not have $80 for any game regardless of its history or credentials.

 

I had tremendous respect for Mr. Fulop prior to this thread, his games are all classics, but I simply cannot pay the price he is asking, nor do I think I like his attitude as it is represented in this thread. I understand his desire for compensation for his efforts, but I think his expectations are a bit unreasonable. I am glad to see that there are those who have the disposable income to pay his price, so that his efforts do not go entirely unrewarded and wish him the best of luck with this venture.

[Sayton]

Okay, everyone...CALM DOWN!

 

No offense here, I mean I know this is the internet, but did I stumble upon GameFAQ's in a forum where only teens and children are talking? WAY too much bickering going on here people. We're adults here, so let's act like it. I'm sure if some outsiders wanting to get back into Atari or wanting to get into Atari sees this, well, I'm sure they don't want to be a part of us now, do they?

 

I've read every post so far, I've made my comments, but I think this is SERIOUSLY gotten out of hand. If you CAN NOT or DO NOT want to pay Mr. Fulop for his game, DON'T! No one is forcing you to and if you don't buy it I'm sure someone else will.

 

I'm not trying to be mean or sound rude, but again, this is way out of line. Whether you're right or wrong or THINK you're right or wrong, it DOES NOT give you the right to start throwing insults back and forth.

 

I live in Tennessee, so I'm not living as high a price area as some of you. I'm FINALLY making, get this, $20,000 A YEAR...and I'm taking care a FAMILY OF FOUR ON MY OWN (minus the low child support my wife gets). Driving AT LEAST 40 minutes to work (aka 28 miles to AND from...56 miles a day) and gas at over $3 PLUS all the crap I have to pay...yeah, money is tight. But you know what? I'm on the list and I'm going to try my best to buy my copy. If money is too tight at the time and Mr. Fulop will allow me to save up a little or wait for that check we're supposed to get, you bet I'm buying the game.

 

Now I'm not saying I'm in the worst shape as far as money is compared to all of you. I'm in a worse state than some of you, yes. BUT, the fact is, even with what I'm "making" (more like SPENDING on bills and gas), yeah, $80 sounds high. But as a gamer and collector I WILL NOT let that deter me unless it's just way too bad. My thing is you NEED a hobby in your life to help take your mind off things when they're tough...collecting games, cards, cars, racing...whatever.

 

So, again, Rob has made his decision. Don't like it? TOUGH! Get over it. Not everyone will agree with the price, but some of you act like Rob is FORCING you to buy this game. Again, NOBODY is forcing you. C'mon people, this is AtariAge...act like it...meaning act civilized towards each other.

[pangasinan]

Just to be sure I have read this thread correctly: Rob Fulop wants me to pay him $80 for an admittedly sub-par game. Not only do I not have $80 for a modern game, I do not have $80 for any game regardless of its history or credentials.

 

I had tremendous respect for Mr. Fulop prior to this thread, his games are all classics, but I simply cannot pay the price he is asking, nor do I think I like his attitude as it is represented in this thread. I understand his desire for compensation for his efforts, but I think his expectations are a bit unreasonable. I am glad to see that there are those who have the disposable income to pay his price, so that his efforts do not go entirely unrewarded and wish him the best of luck with this venture.

If you cant buy it then dont,but stop whingeing about it.

[Numan]

I'm pretty sure there was a thread many many moons ago on this website where some people (possibly myself included) were talking about

having ideas implemented as games and would programmers be interested in this? I believe the programmers reaction was that they wanted to be paid along the lines of what Rob was writing about, so the reaction to Rob in this thread is ironic.

 

The reality is these games will be on eBay within six (6) months of selling out.

[cosmosiss]

Rob, when are you planning to get things rolling? I don't think I made it to the list (never got the second email), but I still would like a copy.

[Rom Hunter]

While the price is high, I don't have a problem with it considering what it is. It is a classic era game that has been finished by the original programmer and comes complete with a box.

Exactly.

 

On the other hand:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;hl=bugs+bunny

 

This was six years ago.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I'm pretty sure there was a thread many many moons ago on this website where some people (possibly myself included) were talking about having ideas implemented as games and would programmers be interested in this? I believe the programmers reaction was that they wanted to be paid along the lines of what Rob was writing about, so the reaction to Rob in this thread is ironic.

For a paid programing job, I had to ask for much more money than anybody is willing to pay for it.

 

Here the work is already done and now Rob wanted to find out how much it is worth to us. Which is definitely less, than the work and time he had originally invested into it.

 

In both cases you have to accept that you cannot think in terms of investment and business like here. No everybody understands that there is much more efford put into making a game for the 2600 from scratch than you will ever get paid for. I cannot see how the reactions are ironic in any way.

[Mayhem]

While the price is high, I don't have a problem with it considering what it is. It is a classic era game that has been finished by the original programmer and comes complete with a box.

Exactly.

 

On the other hand:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;hl=bugs+bunny

 

This was six years ago.

 

 

Interesting to consider things in hindsight... the value of Bugs Bunny has remained static (I picked up a copy, finally, at last year's CGE for $40) and yet Combat II and Elevator Action have remained above sale price. What is the difference? Damned if I can tell. But as stated earlier by myself, these were still copies left over from 2002 afaik. Some of the CGE Services games are still unsold. Marc O still has copies of Snow White and RS Basketball left. So 250 copies may not seem many, but it's more than enough for some games because they still haven't sold out in more than five years since release. It's hard to tell.

[retrogeek]

The decision is pretty easy to make at this point, actually. I'm ignoring the low price vote, assuming such are people who either are voting for their own self interests,

 

I can't stand reading this rubbish any longer!

 

I'm still new to these forums so I am not as well known as some of the others, but what I am not lacking in is common sense. I'm wondering if you're even reading some of these posts. The people who are suggesting a lower price for your game are NOT voting for their self interest. They are plainly stating that the economy cannot bear such an expensive release, and their priorities fall elsewhere.

 

How you can possibly misconstrued these comments as selfish or self-serving? You're allowing your status as a game programmer blindside you. You're releasing something for the Atari 2600; you can't possibly expect more than $50 - $100 for this release. Even if you sell this item to collectors for $1000+ I seriously doubt you will sell enough to make your projected ‘salary’.

 

If you really want to make a living as a game programmer then you should ditch your Atari 2600 Dev kits and move on to something like the Playstation 3 or Xbox 360; that's the only market where you'll make your projected $40,000+ a month.

 

Btw: Some of the homebrews released in recent years have far exceeded some of the ‘commercial’ releases for the Atari system(s) (Adventure II comes to mind) so devaluing these efforts by comparing them to your ‘status’ is the most conceded thing you could ever do.

Edited April 2, 2008 by retrogeek

[Bill Loguidice]

While the price is high, I don't have a problem with it considering what it is. It is a classic era game that has been finished by the original programmer and comes complete with a box.

 

I look at it like this, It's the same price tag you would pay for any other higher end current game at wal-fart. I think $79.99 is fine considering what our getting for your money. I've bought my fair share of $80 dollar titles at the store and in the after market over the last 20 years, and this game is gonna be yet another one to add to the list of games I dropped a bill on.

 

 

OK, I'll bite, what $80 current games are you talking about other than the occasional "value-added" collector's editions, where there are almost always one or two lesser tiers of the same game to buy if you don't want all the add-ins? I hardly think modern day big collector's edition packages of games are comparable to what amounts to an professed-by-the-author-slightly-below-average Atari 2600 game. Again, Mr. Fulop can charge anything he wants and people can pay that if they so choose (that's how capitalism works obviously), I'm just failing to see how your comparison applies here. Frankly, if each box were signed and numbered, then I suppose the comparison would be more fair and the scale would tip more into the "special" category for the release...

[+Psionic]

Interesting to consider things in hindsight... the value of Bugs Bunny has remained static (I picked up a copy, finally, at last year's CGE for $40) and yet Combat II and Elevator Action have remained above sale price. What is the difference? Damned if I can tell.

I didn't know Bugs Bunny was limited...I was under the impression that it was being made unlimited to demand. BB and Holey Moley are both still available from Atari2600.com.

 

But as stated earlier by myself, these were still copies left over from 2002 afaik. Some of the CGE Services games are still unsold. Marc O still has copies of Snow White and RS Basketball left. So 250 copies may not seem many, but it's more than enough for some games because they still haven't sold out in more than five years since release. It's hard to tell.

You make a good point, but the only CGE releases with copies still unsold are Rush Hour and Save the Whales. Most of the others have sold out, AFAIK...and several of the CGE releases (like Rush Hour) had print runs of 500.

 

Even so, I don't think comparing Actionauts to unreleased games by CommaVid and 20th Century Fox is a realistic comparison. I don't think those games generated anywhere near the amount of interest that this game will. Also, this is a one-time release from Rob Fulop of his last game...once they're gone, that's it for him...he can't come back six months or a year from now and hawk another game. This is not a CGE release (which have come out almost every year) or a homebrew (which come out every few months).

[mos6507]

Someone lock this thread. Rob set the price and now all we're going to have is a lot of bickering from here on in.

[+Psionic]

Someone lock this thread. Rob set the price and now all we're going to have is a lot of bickering from here on in.

You're probably right.

 

Like I said earlier, I expected this kind of price, so I look at things from an entirely different perspective. I might feel differently if people weren't going to get a chance to have the ROM image or if Rob wasn't open to the possibility of letting someone sell unlimited copies at some point in the future.

 

People are saying they "can't afford" it. No offense, but I'm pretty conservative with my spending and I find it outrageous the amounts of money I see people spend on stupid shit in this world...it's crazy. As such, I'm not inclined to take seriously any claims that people can't afford the game...it's all question of priorities. The bickering is more due to the fact that this game is more than any previous release (in a hobby where everything is pretty much given away at for free or at cost). You can't expect to get everything for nothing. It's very easy to sell a game like Saboteur cheap when Best Electronics has already been selling 'prototypes' of it for years and the ROM image is already freely available...you have no choice but to sell it cheap. It's very easy to sell a game cheap when it's not your work and you don't compensate the programmer at all or even ask his permission to sell the game (like David Winter did with the 3D Rubik's Cube prototype). It's very easy for people to profit from someone else's game (which occurs all the time in this hobby). Now the shoe is on the other foot, as they say.

 

I can't afford Rolling Stones tickets...should I go on the RS forums and complain? Call Mick and Keith greedy bastards and whine that I have a wife and kid to feed, etc? I'm not crazy about the price of the game either, but what can I say? The Rolling Stones charge $200 per ticket because they can and because that's the going rate...if they don't charge that much, the scalpers will anyway. Similarly, there's just no incentive for Rob to blow these things out the door at $35-$50 a pop when he knows people will turn around and flip them for at least twice that much. I think that simple fact has a lot more to do with the price we're seeing than any compensation he wants to get for his efforts.

 

As far as Rob "insulting" the homebrew community by charging twice what a normal homebrew would sell for, I really don't see it that way. This is not a homebrew. No matter how talented they are, Thomas Jentzsch et al are simply in no position to charge north of $75 for homebrews, regardless or their ability or the quality of their games...that's just reality. Quality and talent has little to do with it. I know guitar players that can play circles around Jimmy Page...can they charge $200 for concert tickets like Led Zeppelin could? I think not.

 

If people don't want to pay it they don't have to. Actions speak louder than words and people can let their money do the talking. Rob will have to eat some serious crow if he gets stuck with these things.

Edited April 2, 2008 by PingvinBlueJeans

[Captain Beard]

I know guitar players that can play circles around Jimmy Page...

Whoa! Now them's fightin' words!

[accousticguitar]

People are saying they "can't afford" it. No offense, but I'm pretty conservative with my spending and I find it outrageous the amounts of money I see people spend on stupid shit in this world...it's crazy. As such, I'm not inclined to take seriously any claims that people can't afford the game...it's all question of priorities.

After paying my income taxes I have $100 left to buy food for the entire month. When I say I can't afford it, I mean it.

[rob fulop]

The decision is pretty easy to make at this point, actually. I'm ignoring the low price vote, assuming such are people who either are voting for their own self interests,

 

I can't stand reading this rubbish any longer!

 

I'm still new to these forums so I am not as well known as some of the others, but what I am not lacking in is common sense. I'm wondering if you're even reading some of these posts. The people who are suggesting a lower price for your game are NOT voting for their self interest. They are plainly stating that the economy cannot bear such an expensive release, and their priorities fall elsewhere.

 

How you can possibly misconstrued these comments as selfish or self-serving? You're allowing your status as a game programmer blindside you. You're releasing something for the Atari 2600; you can't possibly expect more than $50 - $100 for this release. Even if you sell this item to collectors for $1000+ I seriously doubt you will sell enough to make your projected ‘salary’.

 

If you really want to make a living as a game programmer then you should ditch your Atari 2600 Dev kits and move on to something like the Playstation 3 or Xbox 360; that's the only market where you'll make your projected $40,000+ a month.

 

Btw: Some of the homebrews released in recent years have far exceeded some of the ‘commercial’ releases for the Atari system(s) (Adventure II comes to mind) so devaluing these efforts by comparing them to your ‘status’ is the most conceded thing you could ever do.

$50-$100 is totally reasonable. I never for a moment thought about a three figure price tag. All I said was it makes sense to me to toss out the 'lowball' figures since such people are not purchasing this for the reasons I am offering it. Sure, there is a group of people who think people like me should spend months and months without compensation, making things for their pleasure and enjoyment .... obviously we cannot take their 'vote' seriously. Then there are those who want a fun new game to play on their systems, for the cheapest possible price. Such is not what I am offering here. The good news is they can get that through Thomas, who happily spends his off hours making fun new games for this community, and does so pro bono. I am not offering such \. What I'm doing, is offering the last game I ever worked on, incomplete, after having dragged it up out of the basement where it has sat for 25 years, and put a shiny box and label around it ... and offered it to those in the community who have historical interest in such a relic. I am not doing this out of a desire to 'make a living' ... 'make a killing' .. or 'make a schilling'. I'm doing it because people bugged me to do it long enough so I finally did it. I'm putting a price tag on it that feels right to me ... on which pays me for the time/effort involved. Should anybody feel 'ripped off' the last time they purchased a game from me directly ... when I charged them $50 (25 years ago!) ... I will happily buy it back from them at ten times the price they paid for it. Not many people are rushing to my inbox to sell back the last game of mine they purchased. So sorry if I really can't take a lot of the weeping here seriously, okay?

 

The weeping, bellyaching, and meanness exhibited here by a few people is embarrassing to this community. I posted originally to arrive at a price point, which I have. I never thought Actionauts was "for everybody". It's for collectors, conneisseurs, people who want a piece of 2600 history. It is like an antique 33 1/3 record ... one does not purchase such a thing to compare it musically to the latest MP3 download from ITunes. Actionauts is NOT for the people who simply want a new game to play at the lowest possible price. It's a 'collector's item', end of story.

[accousticguitar]

The weeping, bellyaching, and meanness exhibited here by a few people is embarrassing to this community.

Absolutely! It is a vocal minority.

[rob fulop]

Someone lock this thread. Rob set the price and now all we're going to have is a lot of bickering from here on in.

You're probably right.

 

Like I said earlier, I expected this kind of price, so I look at things from an entirely different perspective. I might feel differently if people weren't going to get a chance to have the ROM image or if Rob wasn't open to the possibility of letting someone sell unlimited copies at some point in the future.

 

People are saying they "can't afford" it. No offense, but I'm pretty conservative with my spending and I find it outrageous the amounts of money I see people spend on stupid shit in this world...it's crazy. As such, I'm not inclined to take seriously any claims that people can't afford the game...it's all question of priorities. The bickering is more due to the fact that this game is more than any previous release (in a hobby where everything is pretty much given away at for free or at cost). You can't expect to get everything for nothing. It's very easy to sell a game like Saboteur cheap when Best Electronics has already been selling 'prototypes' of it for years and the ROM image is already freely available...you have no choice but to sell it cheap. It's very easy to sell a game cheap when it's not your work and you don't compensate the programmer at all or even ask his permission to sell the game (like David Winter did with the 3D Rubik's Cube prototype). It's very easy for people to profit from someone else's game (which occurs all the time in this hobby). Now the shoe is on the other foot, as they say.

 

I can't afford Rolling Stones tickets...should I go on the RS forums and complain? Call Mick and Keith greedy bastards and whine that I have a wife and kid to feed, etc? I'm not crazy about the price of the game either, but what can I say? The Rolling Stones charge $200 per ticket because they can and because that's the going rate...if they don't charge that much, the scalpers will anyway. Similarly, there's just no incentive for Rob to blow these things out the door at $35-$50 a pop when he knows people will turn around and flip them for at least twice that much. I think that simple fact has a lot more to do with the price we're seeing than any compensation he wants to get for his efforts.

 

As far as Rob "insulting" the homebrew community by charging twice what a normal homebrew would sell for, I really don't see it that way. This is not a homebrew. No matter how talented they are, Thomas Jentzsch et al are simply in no position to charge north of $75 for homebrews, regardless or their ability or the quality of their games...that's just reality. Quality and talent has little to do with it. I know guitar players that can play circles around Jimmy Page...can they charge $200 for concert tickets like Led Zeppelin could? I think not.

 

If people don't want to pay it they don't have to. Actions speak louder than words and people can let their money do the talking. Rob will have to eat some serious crow if he gets stuck with these things.

Very well said, everything. I paid my $200 to see the Stones a few years ago. I thought it sort of ridiculous, frankly. These guys can barely lift their guitars any more. But it was The Rolling Stones, after all ... so I paid my $200 along with tens of thousands of other people. And I'm glad I did. Did any of the fans in the crowd begrudge Mick and the boys anything? Of course not, given we owe countless memories to the music they created, it was an honor to sit and listen to the dozen or so songs we knew in our souls anyway. Since then, I've went out to hear dozens of bands who play much MUCH more accurately, with better acoustics, etc, paying at most $10 cover. Comparing the two is like apples to oranges.

 

I just really feel bad now, that there are people in this community, and this forum in particular, who really feel slighted, or angry in the least, because of the choices I made here. The truth is, the Atari 2600 is very much a part of my past .. my distant past. I do not play the games ... and I rarely come on to forums like this. My only connection to the community is through infrequent discussions such as this one. I wish I left with a better feeling about it, suffice it to say that I do feel 'chased off the board' here ... and I hope that if another one of my colleagues from the past venture into a place such as this .. they receive a warmer welcome. If such happens, it certainly will not be from my recommendation. Were I Albert, I'd probably close this thread at this point, at this point it's probably just doing more harm then good.

[midnight8]

Someone lock this thread. Rob set the price and now all we're going to have is a lot of bickering from here on in.

You're probably right.

 

Like I said earlier, I expected this kind of price, so I look at things from an entirely different perspective. I might feel differently if people weren't going to get a chance to have the ROM image or if Rob wasn't open to the possibility of letting someone sell unlimited copies at some point in the future.

 

People are saying they "can't afford" it. No offense, but I'm pretty conservative with my spending and I find it outrageous the amounts of money I see people spend on stupid shit in this world...it's crazy. As such, I'm not inclined to take seriously any claims that people can't afford the game...it's all question of priorities. The bickering is more due to the fact that this game is more than any previous release (in a hobby where everything is pretty much given away at for free or at cost). You can't expect to get everything for nothing. It's very easy to sell a game like Saboteur cheap when Best Electronics has already been selling 'prototypes' of it for years and the ROM image is already freely available...you have no choice but to sell it cheap. It's very easy to sell a game cheap when it's not your work and you don't compensate the programmer at all or even ask his permission to sell the game (like David Winter did with the 3D Rubik's Cube prototype). It's very easy for people to profit from someone else's game (which occurs all the time in this hobby). Now the shoe is on the other foot, as they say.

 

I can't afford Rolling Stones tickets...should I go on the RS forums and complain? Call Mick and Keith greedy bastards and whine that I have a wife and kid to feed, etc? I'm not crazy about the price of the game either, but what can I say? The Rolling Stones charge $200 per ticket because they can and because that's the going rate...if they don't charge that much, the scalpers will anyway. Similarly, there's just no incentive for Rob to blow these things out the door at $35-$50 a pop when he knows people will turn around and flip them for at least twice that much. I think that simple fact has a lot more to do with the price we're seeing than any compensation he wants to get for his efforts.

 

As far as Rob "insulting" the homebrew community by charging twice what a normal homebrew would sell for, I really don't see it that way. This is not a homebrew. No matter how talented they are, Thomas Jentzsch et al are simply in no position to charge north of $75 for homebrews, regardless or their ability or the quality of their games...that's just reality. Quality and talent has little to do with it. I know guitar players that can play circles around Jimmy Page...can they charge $200 for concert tickets like Led Zeppelin could? I think not.

 

If people don't want to pay it they don't have to. Actions speak louder than words and people can let their money do the talking. Rob will have to eat some serious crow if he gets stuck with these things.

Very well said, everything. I paid my $200 to see the Stones a few years ago. I thought it sort of ridiculous, frankly. These guys can barely lift their guitars any more. But it was The Rolling Stones, after all ... so I paid my $200 along with tens of thousands of other people. And I'm glad I did. Did any of the fans in the crowd begrudge Mick and the boys anything? Of course not, given we owe countless memories to the music they created, it was an honor to sit and listen to the dozen or so songs we knew in our souls anyway. Since then, I've went out to hear dozens of bands who play much MUCH more accurately, with better acoustics, etc, paying at most $10 cover. Comparing the two is like apples to oranges.

 

I just really feel bad now, that there are people in this community, and this forum in particular, who really feel slighted, or angry in the least, because of the choices I made here. The truth is, the Atari 2600 is very much a part of my past .. my distant past. I do not play the games ... and I rarely come on to forums like this. My only connection to the community is through infrequent discussions such as this one. I wish I left with a better feeling about it, suffice it to say that I do feel 'chased off the board' here ... and I hope that if another one of my colleagues from the past venture into a place such as this .. they receive a warmer welcome. If such happens, it certainly will not be from my recommendation. Were I Albert, I'd probably close this thread at this point, at this point it's probably just doing more harm then good.

 

 

I don't think with a lot of them it was really the price of the game that made them angry. After all its your and you decide the price. I think some of them got upset at the references to jack in the box managers and 4k a month not being a livable wage. There are probably some in here that were offended by that. It takes people in all jobs to make the world go round and we all feel like we are worth more than we make. Hopefully no one maintains any anger.

[Foxsolo2000]

Rob the best thing you can do for this community is to release the game at a price you feel is suitable for you and you alone and leave it at that. End of the day those who can afford it will buy it and appreciate it or sell it for an outrageous price and there will be nothing you can do about that but at least you will have the payback you have been seeking and the arguments will stop. I have read this entire thread and I agree with both sides but at the time saw no point in getting involved but now I feel a neutral view is required. Just get it released, set your price and move on. You asked for our opinions and you got them and yes some were not to your liking, some criticised you but what else did you honestly expect. You now have your feedback so release the game at a price you feel suits you and this too shall pass

[Cybergoth]

Were I Albert, I'd probably close this thread at this point, at this point it's probably just doing more harm then good.

 

Music is always a good topic to talk about. While the Rolling Stones just offer "I want money (that's what I want)", I prefer Lou Reed singing "You're going to reap just what you sow"

[accousticguitar]

Thank you Mr. Fulop for releasing the game. I appreciate the fact that it will not be lost forever.

[CPUWIZ]

Were I Albert, I'd probably close this thread at this point, at this point it's probably just doing more harm then good.

 

I am not Albert, but I agree, I think some people should really be ashamed of themselfs.

 

>click