Milan 040

[rustynutt]

I've got a Milan 040 purchased some years ago from a user in France (I'm in the US). I cased it, installed a decent hard disk, decent CD and floppy and added an ATX to AT power supply connector, wired up a newer mouse to fit the connector (if I would have had schematics first, that would not have been necessary). I have the Milan schematics, and schematics for building the PCB to adapt a 060 CPU. I've tried an 060 using an American made adapter, but there is some logic missing that is detailed in the schematics to make it fire. (060 specific states during RST). It seems to be a solid machine. Milan O/S (MiNT) comes on CD with MVDI (NVDI) and other well known TOS utilities modified or tweaked to look like a professional package. It's German, but English settings are possible in the EPROM, and each application either configurable, or recognizes the system language at boot up. I forget how much ram is installed, but you can bet I put in as much of it as I could. The big draw back to this machine is I’ve never gotten the SCSI card to work. I purchased two new ones with the recommended chip sets, have the latest SCSI BIOS that loads into the EPROM and one of the latest versions of HDDRIVER, but no workie. It sees the ID’s and almost always recognizes the device type and name, but there is something going on I think on the board that is causing trouble. I’ve been assured the driver is valid and functions. I’ve read there are some slower 04’s on the board that should be replaced just for the sake of stability. I’d bet someone handy with one of those ISA/PCI test cards could isolate the problem fairly fast. At least that would verify the driver and commands (I tried all the slots when testing), which would leave the traces to the IBM multifunction controller. I sort of traced it out once, and it’s not too complicated, it’s just finding the bug itself. I've tried every way possible to terminate the drives and card. Honestly, that's how it's acting, like the termination is not correct. The board can be jumped to run the CPU and bus at different speeds, and it performs fine at 40MHz.

 

I had two visions for this machine, one was to install an 060, and the other was to utilize my Epson flatbed scanner for DTP. Neither were accomplished, so the machine has sat for about two years now. It’s fast, just like a NOVA 64 fitted Afterburner at 20/40 on the Falcon. I’m sure IDE performance is much better than the Falcon.

 

What I’d like to have is a functional CaTTamaran fitted TT with some sort of 32bit graphics card that can at least display 1024*768 for Phase 4 work. I’ve already got a Mighty Sonic 32-NOVA 64 that brings the Falcon on par with TT performance, but TOS 4.04 isn’t as compatible as TT TOS is with the Phase 4 package (I really don’t know what the cause is, but Phase 4 on the Falcon is kind of a pain to use. It might be that Chronos just runs better in TT HI than it does in Falcon video modes or NOVA graphic modes). I’ve also an Afterburner, and as of yet uninstalled CT060, no more Falcons are needed right now (well maybe a mint new in the box unopened 14 meg bird ) The only thing I’m leery about is both TT’s I’ve had CaTT’s fitted to were so buggy they were not usable, so a stable TT in trade would be a must, otherwise I’d just as soon put up with the TOS 4.04 bugs working with Phase 4. The only software included would be the Milan O/S, with any driver files. You / we each would have to supply our own applications like Extendos and HDDriver. I know a TT built like I want cost more than the Milan (I’ve got about $1200.00 into it), but your getting technology in trade

Sorry for such a long post, just want to get everything out on the table for someone to chew over for a while, it’s not easy for me either to think about letting this machine go. It’s not really for sale either unless your stupidly wealthy and just can’t live without it

 

Thanks for the space in time.

[jens]

Is this sort of a buy and sell related posting?

[doctorclu]

Is this sort of a buy and sell related posting?

 

 

He's brainstorming.

 

I used to dream of a 060 Milan. Thought it would have been really cool if they could have licensed with current Atari to have the Atari symbol on it. THAT would have been great.

[jens]

Well, I think one might take some passages as offer for trading a TT for that Milan, but I might have misinterpreted that.

[Atari060]

Hi.

 

I am using Milan060 for years now and I would never give it away! About your scsi-problem: You need a special scsi card driver from Michael Schwingen. This is with hardware key, you can only use it on one Milan. It's looking for the Milan's serial number. No chance to have it work with simply using HDDRIVER! If you have scsi driver installed then you can use HDDRIVER. But you can use ide to scsi adaptor anyway!

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

 

PS: If someone would build new Milans, I would buy one, even in our days!

[doctorclu]

Well, I think one might take some passages as offer for trading a TT for that Milan, but I might have misinterpreted that.

 

Wish I had a better TT030 to trade at this point. Oh well.

[callaghan]

i liked how they used to call the blue disks standard,

the black one's...non white

and

the beige maxwell one's "plain vanilla"....

 

alls changed as they have transparent and painted ones today!!!!

 

if you are that deep into the milan and the atari , i think its called a pc at that point ....

 

oh well , its painstake-ing-illy hard assosiatd ing with what i do not have ,, is it one of those towers type of clones?????

 

charles

[lp060]

i liked how they used to call the blue disks standard,

the black one's...non white

and

the beige maxwell one's "plain vanilla"....

 

alls changed as they have transparent and painted ones today!!!!

 

if you are that deep into the milan and the atari , i think its called a pc at that point ....

 

oh well , its painstake-ing-illy hard assosiatd ing with what i do not have ,, is it one of those towers type of clones?????

 

charles

 

Don't get the disk reference, or relevance.

 

A Milan is not a PC. There's no underlying winblows or linux or such nonsense. It runs the TOS operating system. Many people re-case their Atari motherboards in tower cases, or a desktop case, even rack mount cases, the case configuration is irrelevant. It's what's inside the box that counts.

 

I'm a long time Hades060 owner myself.

[rustynutt]

Hi.

 

I am using Milan060 for years now and I would never give it away! About your scsi-problem: You need a special scsi card driver from Michael Schwingen. This is with hardware key, you can only use it on one Milan. It's looking for the Milan's serial number. No chance to have it work with simply using HDDRIVER! If you have scsi driver installed then you can use HDDRIVER. But you can use ide to scsi adaptor anyway!

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

 

PS: If someone would build new Milans, I would buy one, even in our days!

 

Moin moin!

 

Sorry if the previous post sounded like a for sale add

 

I've talked to both Michael and the designer of the 060 adapter card (have the schematics for it, forget what it's called). Michael sent me the SCSI driver that loads into the BIOS, and recommended a chipset for use with the Milan when purchasing a SCSI card. Haven't worked on this machine since some time before the original post, but after a couple of months of testing, never got the SCSI to work reliable.

 

Yup, I dreamed about owning a Milan, then forked over the dough some years ago to own one. It's a fantastic machine, even with only the 040 on board. Like I'd mentioned in the other post, this was suppose to be my DTP machine, and without the SCSI, I'm SOL. It's still in the storage room, and wouldn't let it go for anything less that posted earlier.

 

Chris, if you see this post, maybe you can walk me through set up after I pull the machine out and fire it up again. I've experience installing everything from a Nemesis to an Afterburner with NOVA graphics on the Falcon, and lots of ST experience. There might be something I'm missing in translation however. I'd be forever grateful!

 

Thanks!

Mike

[ps68060]

You have probably tried most of this but it's worth checking.

 

http://www.ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections...et/01/milan.htm

 

Peter

[carmel_andrews]

does anyone remember the name of the TT clone made by a canadian company (and also the name of the canadian comapny as well)

[lp060]

does anyone remember the name of the TT clone made by a canadian company (and also the name of the canadian comapny as well)

 

Only thing that comes to mind is CaTTermaran from CyberCube Research, but it was not a clone. It was some sort of speed up or overclocking device. They also sold VME video cards for the TT. Had such a card a long time ago.

 

The only TT clones I'm aware of came from Medusa Computer Systems.

http://www.medusacomputer.com/

[Warriorisabouttodie]

That sounds like an awesome machine you got there. I was wondering what is it's compatibility like with old ST apps? I suppose there are very few games that would work on the Milan, would a game written to run inside TOS like Beyond Zork run?

[carmel_andrews]

Sorry i was recalling the TT clones made in the early 90's back and back end of the late 80's, i distintly remember seeing it mentioned in some uk atari magazines

Edited February 11, 2009 by carmel_andrews

[ps68060]

Wasn't there a DirecTT or was that another name for the Medusa ?

 

As for the Milan, low res ST games don't run due to the lack of that resolution and probably other hardware incompatibilities.

It's a shame that no-one ever ported an ST emulator to the Milan.

 

Things like Doom ported by Patrice Mandin work ok but slowly. ScummVM runs too but I had a few problems with sound.

[lp060]

Wasn't there a DirecTT or was that another name for the Medusa ?

 

You are correct. Those were repackaged boards from Medusa. Basically identical to the Hades. It was the Canadian one I saw at an Atari show that prompted me to get one actually, and it was run by a nice chap by the name of Chris if I recall correctly.

[rustynutt]

You have probably tried most of this but it's worth checking.

 

http://www.ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections...et/01/milan.htm

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter, yes I tried those instructions. Only now beginning to set up a work area for the Atari's. The new Dutch wife clean out a spot in the garage for me to work in. Not so bad, it's right next to all the vintage motorcycles In the mean time just got my second CT060, another Falcon and a MegaST. The fun will begin shortly, first looking for a t-28 or T-36 for the Mega. I'm thinking a PAK and FRAK would be impossible to find or pryloose from anyone. Found a co-worker that can build multilayerd boards, hopefully with the simple schematic for the Milan 060 adapter card, he'll come up with something much more cleaner than I have in the past, and also make a couple to play with on the Afterburner and Mighty Sonic. He can utilize an ISA and PCI bus analyzer card, hopefully that might put some light on why the SCSI is having problems on the Milan. It has the right card and soft ware driver, HD Driver identifies it, but just can't read and write to it. It that worked along with the 060 upgrade, bad azz machine. I"ve been to The Netherlands three times, through a lot of thrift stores and searched online sales and didnt see any Atari Computer items listed for sale. Did see lots and lots of tall attrictive Dutch women however. ONly took one home with me though Once I get some of the machines up and running, I'll list my extras in a for sale/trade section.

[rustynutt]

How fast time fly's...

Hope this isn't an improper inclusion to the thread.

 

Finally, after a 30 year federal service career, will retire from the day job January 31st.The attention required of the position, and changes in my personal life prevented the day to day attention to a hobby that is pretty much all consuming, as some of the long time members here know:)

 

In celebration, my first project is to return about 15 years to the level of activity then involved with the Atari computing hobby. One that consumed about 70% of time:). Pretty much the Milan, and finally getting around to installing a CT60, also picked up a PAC030, a couple more Expose cards, and other treasures.

 

Christmas evening, dusted the Milan off, boot up was fine. I came back to this thread to establish a starting point of where I left off. Odd, after so many years, within 30 minutes seem to be right back to where I was.

 

Back to the topic, information in this thread with respect to HD Driver setting will be the first trouble shooting on the failure of SCSI operation.

 

Another subject in this thread mentions a SCSI-sound hardware problem of some Milans. Last night followed one or two links to sites that at one time must have had hardware discussions and instructions for modification to the Milan board to resolve the issue, Found them now offline.

 

The repair sounds something like the Falcon DMA patch.

If someone copied the website content, knows or has the repair instructions, would appreciate the information.

 

Mike

[jens]

Some (german) stuff about the Milan:

Milan Hilfeseite

Some files to setup the machine

 

The Milan Hilfeseite states you'll have to flash some chips within the Milan to cope with the SCSI-sound problem.

[rustynutt]

Dunk you wel!

[jens]

Btw.: I do own a Milan manual, which unfortunately happens to be written in German.

I don't know if there is an English version available somewhere.

[rustynutt]

Btw.: I do own a Milan manual, which unfortunately happens to be written in German.

I don't know if there is an English version available somewhere.

 

Thanks jens, the mb I purchased came with the cd and German manual

 

Before taking the Milan out of its case to do the scsi fix (need to build a cable), ran some test with some old video cards I have.

 

Here are the results. Mostly, for what its worth information.

 

Milan Legacy Video Card Test

 

FWIW

 

Monitor settings:

 

1280*1024 Max

H 30-72kHz

V 50-100Hz

110mHz Pixel Clock

 

Base:

Milan 33mHz

TOS 4.08

Boot Block 1.04

Board Rev 1

 

Test baselines:

Gembench comparison to Falcon 30 +FPU 640*480*2

MILAN BOOT TO TOS DESKTOP

 

SAMPLE 1:

 

ATI MACH 64 ISA 4MB DATE 1994

1996 BIOS 112-28123-102 ROM

 

OBSERVED: DID NOT BOOT WITH MILAN BIOS

 

SAMPLE 2:

 

#9 GEX64PRO PCI DATE 1994

MPVXP0000X ROM

S3 VISION 964

86C964-P

 

OBSERVED: DISPLAYS "MILAN" AT BOOT UP. "MILAN" IS DISPLAYED IN WHAT APPEARS 8BIT GRAPHICS.

ACCEPTS MILAN CFG FILE SET TO 640*480*2

AFTER REACHING DESKTOP ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE RES TO 8 BIT GRAPHICS, SCREEN REBOOTS TO WHITE, SYSTEM FREEZES.

 

INCLUDED GEMBENCH FILE

 

============================================

GEM Dialog Box: 0.450 777%

VDI Text: 1.115 304%

VDI Text Effects: 1.760 425%

VDI Small Text: 0.645 581%

VDI Graphics: 2.330 374%

GEM Window: 0.790 177%

Integer Division: 0.905 342%

Float Math: 0.080 425%

RAM Access: 0.210 1047%

ROM Access: 0.415 506%

Blitting: 1.745 64%

VDI Scroll: 2.100 125%

Justified Text: 1.090 299%

VDI Enquire: 0.140 1128%

New Dialogs: 0.615 723%

============================================

Graphics: 452%

CPU: 580%

Average: 486%

 

SAMPLE 3:

 

DIAMOND S3 VISION 968 PCI IABE3 DATE 1995

STEALTH 64 VIDEO ROM 2.07

86C968-P 8MEG VRAM

 

SAME AS #9 VIDEO CARD

FUNCTIONS IN 640*480*2 GRAPHICS MODE ONLY

 

INCLUDED GEMBENCH FILE

 

============================================

GEM Dialog Box: 0.425 823%

VDI Text: 1.080 314%

VDI Text Effects: 1.705 439%

VDI Small Text: 0.630 595%

VDI Graphics: 2.280 382%

GEM Window: 0.730 191%

Integer Division: 0.910 340%

Float Math: 0.085 400%

RAM Access: 0.220 1000%

ROM Access: 0.425 494%

Blitting: 1.725 64%

VDI Scroll: 1.935 136%

Justified Text: 1.050 310%

VDI Enquire: 0.145 1089%

New Dialogs: 0.605 735%

============================================

Graphics: 461%

CPU: 558%

Average: 487%

 

SAMPLE 4:

 

JAZZ JAKARTA PCI

26-042604-3 JAZZ V 1.11D ROM

TSENG LABS ET4000/W32P

 

OBSERVED: BOOTS TO BLACK SCREEN/APPEARS TO BE GENERATING SYNC TO MONITOR. MILAN CONTINUES TO BOOT UPON KEY STROKE. UNKNOWN DISPLAY.

 

JAKARTA VIDEO CARD HAS SVHS OUT/1-2 CHANNEL AUDIO IN/2-1 CHANNEL AUDIO OUT.

 

ATTEMPTED TO LOAD NVDI V5 ET VERSION. DUMMY ME, MILAN VDI IS DIFFERENT AND ERROR OCCURRED.

THIS CARD LOOKS PROMISING FOR AN NVDI ET COMPATIBLE MACHINE. WILL TEST ON PC BASED WIN MACHINE TO DETERMINE IF SVHS OUT REQUIRES SOFTWARE DRIVER TO ENABLE, OR IF CONTINUAL SVHS OUTPUT DUPLICATES VGA OUTPUT TO SCREEN.

 

SAMPLE 5:

 

ORCHID TECHNOLOGY ISA

DESIGNER 800 VGA DUAL MONITOR CONNECTOR 15 AND 9 PIN.

TSENG LABS ET3000AX

 

BOOTS TO WHITE SCREEN UNDER MILAN VDI

SYSTEM CRASH SAME AS JAZZ JAKARTA WHEN NVDI5 ET IS INSTALLED.

 

OTHER NOTES:

 

HAVE THREE SBS PCI IRIG A4329-PCI-8 DSP CARDS/WITH TI TMS320C50PQ80 DSP ONBOARD.

FOR SOMEONE WITH MILAN AND DSP PROGRAMMING EXPERIENCE, THESE MIGHT PROVE INTERESTING.

[jens]

I'm running some S3 card in my Milan. An ATI Rage II would be interesting for people who want to use higher resolutions and colourdepths, e.g. for Calamus, but the S3 drivers seem to be faster than the ATI ones as many people mentioned.

 

Beetle told me some time ago he thought it might be possible to use an ATI Radeon with the Milan, as drivers for the Falcon/CT60/CTPCI do exist. He mentioned Didier Mequignon as some candidate for adjusting those drivers for Milan use.

 

ATI Mach 32 or 64 cards might be options as well, if someone adjusted the drivers for the Eclipse (PCI) or Nova (ISA) cards for Falcon or TT.

 

I do have some spare video cards which I might test at some point in the future. I'm fiddling with my Mighty Sonic 32 Falcon atm, and there is not sooo much space that I want to have the Milan attached here additionally.

Nonetheless it won't be too long until I fire it up, as someone mentioned using a PCI Soundblaster card with it.

[rustynutt]

jens, here is another S3 card that won't boot with the Milan BIOS. Thought I'd found the golden egg with this card, it is a Virge/VX with 8mb of RAM.

 

The system only gets as far as a blinking curser.

The VX is what the BIOS reads it's looking for, but not in this case. This little test hurt$$.

 

S3 Virge/VX

P5AOCC

86C988

BIOS Velocity 3D 1.1 -B

With ram module attached over video card memory.

 

Writing that made me think, if the Virge VX is suppose to work, maybe it's the additonal VRAM?

 

Working on the Mighty Sonic? DId we talk some years back about running the MIghty Sonic with a Nemesis?

Sold mine last year with a spare NOVA adapter when an extra Afterburner came my way.

[jens]

Hi.

I can't tell what is this thing with the S3 cards not running, sorry.

It really mighty be that enormous amount of RAM on it, but as said above: I can't tell you. :-/

 

But, I took the Milan apart to see which S3 is running in it.

The chip is an S3 Trio64V2/DX.

Hth.

 

Mighty Sonic with Nemesis still would be fine.

I haven't got one, but the MS32 is mostly running nicely. :-)