Games the Jaguar lacked...

[82-T/A]

Not to focus on the negatives, I am a huge fan of the Jaguar. But with a conversation that was sparked on the 7800 forum, it got me thinking of some of the things the Jaguar lacks.

 

The jaguar has some good side scrollers, it has some good action games, decent fighting games, but it really lacks RPG / Adventure games. I haven't given the Highlander a chance, so I can't say for sure if it's good or not, but Towers II is pretty much the sole adventure game for the jag. I'm surprised they never came out with anything, a franchise if you will... like the Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior series.

 

What were they thinking?

[so_tough!]

It lacked a lot of games, it could have been so much more than it was.

[Pete5125]

This was probably one of the few decisions that Atari did make correctly, A good role playing game takes a very long time to develope and at the time most gamers were not into anything other than the franchise games...Sega was only known for role-playing on the Master System, it was a change of focus to Sports/Fighters/Sonic that helped them crush Nintendo. If Atari would of been smart they would of focused on Arcade style fighters. If they would of foubd a way to release the system w/Mortal Kombat 2(add in 2 new playable characters) or even Arcade perfect Primal Rage and included arcade sticks of some sort....Even better include a light Gun and have Area 51.

 

See I would of said sports but at the time every good Sports person was either working for EA/launching the 3D0 or Sega.

 

I still believe they should of at least had 1 game to represent each sport...As long as the basics were their and it was easy to play (think Tommy Lasorda/Joe Montana year 1 Sega)and also the graphics were next generation (64 bit)not just more colorfull/bigger.

 

With a few good Arcade Fighters etc. Atari could of turned out the rest of the crap they made only spent a little more time eother tweeking control, adding music, making games animate better than their 16 bit counterparts.

 

Not every game Sega made for the Genesis was gold but, then you weren't searching through c-Grade games for gems either.

[SauceCaptain]

Like it was said, gamers just were not interested in RPGs at the time. They were increddibly popular with a niche few (in my entire school there were my friend and I, plus the smelly kid that allways sat in the back of the class, and we were the only kids who played RPGs) everybody else didn't care. I think if Black Ice White Noise was finished the whole picture would be different. It would have filled the adventure catagory in a big way. The other part of this is that there just arn't that many jaguar games total, so one game of a genre isn't bad for the system. 2 out of 50-60 games, the ratio on other systems was about the same and still is for the most part (look at the xbox, Wii, gamecube, dreamcast, a few adventure/RPG but not many, PS2 PS1 were the exceptions). I would have loved games like arena football or Dactyl Joust, could have filled those gaps nicely. One of the reasons I love the Jag so much is that despite having a very small library of games it has a bit of everything, even a RPG

[82-T/A]

Like it was said, gamers just were not interested in RPGs at the time. They were increddibly popular with a niche few (in my entire school there were my friend and I, plus the smelly kid that allways sat in the back of the class, and we were the only kids who played RPGs) everybody else didn't care. I think if Black Ice White Noise was finished the whole picture would be different. It would have filled the adventure catagory in a big way. The other part of this is that there just arn't that many jaguar games total, so one game of a genre isn't bad for the system. 2 out of 50-60 games, the ratio on other systems was about the same and still is for the most part (look at the xbox, Wii, gamecube, dreamcast, a few adventure/RPG but not many, PS2 PS1 were the exceptions). I would have loved games like arena football or Dactyl Joust, could have filled those gaps nicely. One of the reasons I love the Jag so much is that despite having a very small library of games it has a bit of everything, even a RPG

 

Yeah, I see what you're saying... it just bums me out to no end. I'll just have to get over it.

 

But, I like everything about the Jaguar. I like the feel of the controller (seriously), I like the speed of the machine. By that I mean, you can tell which types of processes in the Jaguar are lightning fast, and which ones are acceptable. I think all things aside, the system itself with all of it's capability was absolutely perfect for a good solid RPG. For example, something as simple as say, one of the AD&D gold box series games, but with full VGA. Or even something like Eye of the Beholder, or even a game like Final Fantasy. Games like that would have run perfect on that system.

[JagChris]

There were so many opportunities the Tramiels blew. They had that cross licensing deal with Sega from that lawsuit and they totally dropped the ball. They could of updated and ported a RPG or two from the Genesis. They could of done an upgraded port of Eternal Champions. The possibilities go on and on.

 

Jackasses. Complete Jackasses.

[sd32]

Yeah, the Sega deal, i was so hopeful that Atari would actually do something out of it... foolish toughts.

They could have used the Fight for Life engine to do an improved port of the 32X Virtua Fighter.

The Space War engine to port Star Wars Arcade

Or even better, they could have used the amazing Checkered Flag engine to port Virtua Racing... it would have beaten even the arcade version of that game! . LOL!

And of course, a 64-bit Sonic would have sold a ton of Jaguars .

[JagChris]

Yeah, the Sega deal, i was so hopeful that Atari would actually do something out of it... foolish toughts.

They could have used the Fight for Life engine to do an improved port of the 32X Virtua Fighter.

The Space War engine to port Star Wars Arcade

Or even better, they could have used the amazing Checkered Flag engine to port Virtua Racing... it would have beaten even the arcade version of that game! . LOL!

And of course, a 64-bit Sonic would have sold a ton of Jaguars .

 

Its hard to find info on what the Sega deal actually entailed. The Wildcat fanzine I read back in the day stated that one or two franchises could be chosen as exempt from the deal on both sides. If that's true then Sega would of probably used their exempt on the Sonic franchise.

 

But I dont know if that's true or not.

 

Sega Lawsuit - I never saw the agreement but I never heard that we got the rights to Sega IP.

 

However, Laury from Atari stated that the Tramiels took most of the 90 mil they won in the deal and put it into their JVC or JST deal they merged into afterwards.

 

Atari had just received over $60 M from Sega and had lots of cash and no real place to use it. JTS had some good product and was in need of cash. And the rest is history.

[DracIsBack]

Atari had just received over $60 M from Sega and had lots of cash and no real place to use it. JTS had some good product and was in need of cash. And the rest is history.

 

The Sega deal was actually pulled off in 1994. The settlement was for $90 million (partly from retroactive patent licenses and partly from the purchase of Atari stock). After legal fees for both companies, I think it netted out to around $70 million.

 

Atari continued to incur losses in the remainder of 1994 and all through 1995 due to increased expenditures on the Jaguar. They actually did try with the system and sunk millions into advertising, game development, production (particularly in support of the Walmart deal) and other initiatives. Sales, however, never really took off. Some customers were skeptical of Atari due to their history, the game library didn't excite the general public and the media was often pretty savage. By the time the PSX came out, the Jaguar sales virtually collapsed. The Tramiels realized quickly that the Jaguar wasn't going to compete against Sony and looked for other opportunities. The Jaguar II was one avenue, another was ports of Atari games to the PC (Tempest 2000 did come out and others were planned). At the end of the day though, they probably felt that JTS had more opportunity than either of those did and cancelled them.

 

As for lacking titles, I think RPGs are one. Towers II came out after Atari jumped ship and does fit that bill, though, IMO, not very well. I didn't like Highlander either ... wanted to, but couldn't get into it. Plus, the constant loading really annoyed me.

 

Sports titles were pretty weak on the Jaguar too, I think. I liked its NBA Jam TE, but that was hardly "exclusive" at that point. It didn't really have strong reprisentation in other sports genres.

Basketball: NBA Jam TE (good but not exclusive), White Man Can't Jump (regularly panned)

Football: Brutal Sports Football (kind of a weird twist, but looks like an Amiga Game, IMO), Troy Aikman Football (panned and not much better than what was on the SNES and Genesis already)

Soccer: Sensible Soccer (quite fun, IMO but not exactly 64-bit looking. Not exactly 16-bit looking, IMO)

Skiing: Val d'Isere (I found it fun, but not really any different than what I'd seen on the SNES

Baseball: Nothing commercially released during its lifespan

Hockey: Nothing commercially released during its lifespan.

Edited May 24, 2008 by DracIsBack

[CrazyChris]

Phear looked cool even though is was eventually published

on the N64.

 

[Gregory DG]

Everytime this thread pops up I mention the same thing: Baseball! There's every other sport available (hockey via the Brett Hull protos) but nothing, nada, zippo baseball. No released game, no protos, no screen shots. NOTHING.

 

I guess the same thing could be said for a Tennis game, but at least there was a French group working on a homebrew game a few years back. And now that I think of it there might have been a homebrew baseball game in the works too. But I haven't heard anything about either of these in ages.

 

How I wish there was a Jaguar port of Neo*Geo's Baseball Stars 2. <sigh>

[Gunstar]

There is one true RPG/adventure game out there, finished, and will hopefully be released soon; Robinson's Requiem. It's big-time in the survival-adventure genre, and it doesn't get any deeper than RR where RPG character stats are concerned. It's much deeper than just hitpoints, you can actually get diseases and poisoned, real wounds to worry about that you actually have to take medicine for, and bandage. Splints need to be made for broken limbs, etc. Just surviving, in the beginning is the key, from injury and starvation, and freezing or overheating. Your characters costume is important and whether you are wearing a winter coat in the freezing cold, or, in 90 degree heat which could overheat and exhaust you, so you have to strip down to your skivies, etc. This will make up for a lot on the Jaguar in the adventure RPG catagory if it gets released. It is available now for the PC, Mac and 3DO consoles. I have it on the 3DO, and from what I've seen of the Jaguar version, it appears to be identical.

Black Ice/White noise would have been another to really deliver, and possibly Varuana's Forces would have been another among many RPG/adventure games that used to be listed as in development for the Jaguar. Even the now legendary Dues Ex Machina, and many many more; Dante's Inferno, Commander Blood, Chaos Agenda(I believe this is what became BI/WN), Circle of Four, Bios Fear, Ishar Genesis, Return to Zork, Return of Magic, Legions of the Undead and Dungeon Depths.

If the Jaguar had lasted even another year, we probably would have seen some of these titles, but the development time for most would have been longer than the Jaguar's market life.

Edited May 24, 2008 by Gunstar

[82-T/A]

There is one true RPG/adventure game out there, finished, and will hopefully be released soon; Robinson's Requiem. It's big-time in the survival-adventure genre, and it doesn't get any deeper than RR where RPG character stats are concerned. It's much deeper than just hitpoints, you can actually get diseases and poisoned, real wounds to worry about that you actually have to take medicine for, and bandage. Splints need to be made for broken limbs, etc. Just surviving, in the beginning is the key, from injury and starvation, and freezing or overheating. Your characters costume is important and whether you are wearing a winter coat in the freezing cold, or, in 90 degree heat which could overheat and exhaust you, so you have to strip down to your skivies, etc. This will make up for a lot on the Jaguar in the adventure RPG catagory if it gets released. It is available now for the PC, Mac and 3DO consoles. I have it on the 3DO, and from what I've seen of the Jaguar version, it appears to be identical.

Black Ice/White noise would have been another to really deliver, and possibly Varuana's Forces would have been another among many RPG/adventure games that used to be listed as in development for the Jaguar. Even the now legendary Dues Ex Machina, and many many more; Dante's Inferno, Commander Blood, Chaos Agenda(I believe this is what became BI/WN), Circle of Four, Bios Fear, Ishar Genesis, Return to Zork, Return of Magic, Legions of the Undead and Dungeon Depths.

If the Jaguar had lasted even another year, we probably would have seen some of these titles, but the development time for most would have been longer than the Jaguar's market life.

 

 

That sounds awesome! Do you know when it will be coming out for the Jaguar? I have a 3D0 also, but I'd really rather play it on the Jag. I don't suppose it will be cartridge based, will it? I know I can't have my cake and eat it too, but I definitely prefer games on cartridge... I'm just not a fan of load times.

 

I have a mint Jag-CD, and then a rather used one (which I actually use when I play games). But... I wonder if there's any consideration for making an aftermarket Jaguar CD? I would seriously doubt that the Jag-CD is 52x read-speed? If anything, it's probably a 2x speed CD drive (which was rather standard, though still expensive back then). If someone could make some sort of a replacement Jag CD system, something by which it was nothing more than a basic 5.25" enclosure with a 52x CD drive in there, and then a custom connector of some sort that goes between the Jaguar and the Memory Cartridge, that would be awesome.

 

I still have 2 years left before I get my Electrical Engineering degree, so I'm not looking forward to the idea of trying this myself... but I can't imagine it would be too difficult? I know the VLM is on there, but what other programming exists on the Jag-CD drive that we couldn't duplicate some-how?

[Gunstar]

There is one true RPG/adventure game out there, finished, and will hopefully be released soon; Robinson's Requiem. It's big-time in the survival-adventure genre, and it doesn't get any deeper than RR where RPG character stats are concerned. It's much deeper than just hitpoints, you can actually get diseases and poisoned, real wounds to worry about that you actually have to take medicine for, and bandage. Splints need to be made for broken limbs, etc. Just surviving, in the beginning is the key, from injury and starvation, and freezing or overheating. Your characters costume is important and whether you are wearing a winter coat in the freezing cold, or, in 90 degree heat which could overheat and exhaust you, so you have to strip down to your skivies, etc. This will make up for a lot on the Jaguar in the adventure RPG catagory if it gets released. It is available now for the PC, Mac and 3DO consoles. I have it on the 3DO, and from what I've seen of the Jaguar version, it appears to be identical.

Black Ice/White noise would have been another to really deliver, and possibly Varuana's Forces would have been another among many RPG/adventure games that used to be listed as in development for the Jaguar. Even the now legendary Dues Ex Machina, and many many more; Dante's Inferno, Commander Blood, Chaos Agenda(I believe this is what became BI/WN), Circle of Four, Bios Fear, Ishar Genesis, Return to Zork, Return of Magic, Legions of the Undead and Dungeon Depths.

If the Jaguar had lasted even another year, we probably would have seen some of these titles, but the development time for most would have been longer than the Jaguar's market life.

 

 

That sounds awesome! Do you know when it will be coming out for the Jaguar? I have a 3D0 also, but I'd really rather play it on the Jag. I don't suppose it will be cartridge based, will it? I know I can't have my cake and eat it too, but I definitely prefer games on cartridge... I'm just not a fan of load times.

 

I have a mint Jag-CD, and then a rather used one (which I actually use when I play games). But... I wonder if there's any consideration for making an aftermarket Jaguar CD? I would seriously doubt that the Jag-CD is 52x read-speed? If anything, it's probably a 2x speed CD drive (which was rather standard, though still expensive back then). If someone could make some sort of a replacement Jag CD system, something by which it was nothing more than a basic 5.25" enclosure with a 52x CD drive in there, and then a custom connector of some sort that goes between the Jaguar and the Memory Cartridge, that would be awesome.

 

I still have 2 years left before I get my Electrical Engineering degree, so I'm not looking forward to the idea of trying this myself... but I can't imagine it would be too difficult? I know the VLM is on there, but what other programming exists on the Jag-CD drive that we couldn't duplicate some-how?

 

I've played the 3DO version, but not very far into it as I too, am waiting for it for the Jaguar. But at least I know what I'll be getting and that it will definately be worth it. It is a Jaguar CD, not cartridge. Yes the Jaguar is 2x speed, but it does load games faster than a PSX, Saturn or even 3DO. Even those 90's consoles have 2x drives in them, but I guess their read formats are slower. Besides, Jaguar CD games are made for 2x speed and wouldn't work at 52x speed, so the aftermarket drive would have to be able to sync down to 2x speed at least for the older games, new titles could probably be made for faster speeds. VLM, Jag CD bios and Cinepak decoding is all on the CD drive among other things. It will be difficult. You may be able to make something with a industry standard 52x drive, but you would have to copy the Jag CD motherboard in some way to take into account all it's proprietary stuff. Otherwise, in the last dozen or so years someone would have already done this I think. That's why there are developers like Jagware that are trying to bring out this new JagCF cartridge thing using some sort of flash memory and tones of other stuff.

[spiffyone]

Not to focus on the negatives, I am a huge fan of the Jaguar. But with a conversation that was sparked on the 7800 forum, it got me thinking of some of the things the Jaguar lacks.

 

The jaguar has some good side scrollers, it has some good action games, decent fighting games, but it really lacks RPG / Adventure games. I haven't given the Highlander a chance, so I can't say for sure if it's good or not, but Towers II is pretty much the sole adventure game for the jag. I'm surprised they never came out with anything, a franchise if you will... like the Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior series.

 

*sighs

 

I'm sorry...bit of a pet peeve with me.

 

In terms of defining genres, RPGs and Adventures games, while somewhat related, are not one and the same, synonymous, or interchangeable.

 

They are two wholly separate game genres.

 

RPGs are focused primarily on character creation and/or modification, and this is driven by the use of stats (accumilation and assignment of said stats/levels/etc.),which are all accumilated through battles usually. Towers II, Final Fantasy, and Dragon Warrior are RPGs. Different, yes (Western PC style RPG vs. JRPG), but still RPGs.

 

Adventure games are games focused on investigation and all that that encompasses. Investigation includes, but is not limited to, exploration of environments, "interviews"/"interrogation" of NPCs, logic and environmental puzzle solving - all of which are related to gathering clues, putting the pieces together, etc. In essence, the player is conducting an investigation. Games of this genre include Myst, Secret of Monkey Island, Shenmue, Snatcher, Indigo Prophecy, Phoenix Wright, etc. Adventure games are not focused on character creation/modification through acquired stats. Adventure games are sometimes erroneously called "puzzle games" due to many having environmental puzzles, but the term puzzle game is for games like Tetris, Klax, etc. not games with environmental or logic puzzles (or, as I like to call them, mental puzzles). Also, Action/Adventure games are often erroneously labeled adventure games, but the former is a hybrid genre connecting some arcade action gameplay with some adventure elements and having both work hand in hand simultaneously. Legend of Zelda is not an adventure game, but it is an action/adventure game. And it's predecessor, Atari's own Adventure is, ironically, also not an adventure game but actually the first ever action/adventure game.

 

I know not many here give a rat's ass, and indeed some will say "who cares?", but, y'know...I do. Pet peeve, and one I feel needs to be hammered out if people are going to take video games seriously as a medium along the lines of film. After all, to interpret and dissect games, one must need to interpret the gameplay and focus of gameplay.

 

But to answer your main question:

 

What were they thinking?

 

It was Atari, or rather a shell of the old Atari. Most of the classic developers had gone to greener pastures. And RPGs (like Towers II and action/adventure games (like Highlander) are very time intensive projects. Arcade style games are much easier to develop and quicker too. Not to mention less expensive, and remember that the Tramiels were big on "less expensive".

 

That said, an update to Atari's Adventure would've been great. IMHO, it probably would've been like Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time a few years before Ocarina of Time was even released. Why? Well, LoZ is heavily influenced by Atari's Adventure. Hell, the entire action/adventure genre, from Zelda to Resident Evil to ICO is influenced by Adventure. It was, after all, the first action/adventure game. But Zelda is especially influenced by Atari's game. Look at the first LoZ for NES. It's basically a friggin' sequel to Adventure when you really think about it.

[spiffyone]

This was probably one of the few decisions that Atari did make correctly, A good role playing game takes a very long time to develope and at the time most gamers were not into anything other than the franchise games...Sega was only known for role-playing on the Master System, it was a change of focus to Sports/Fighters/Sonic that helped them crush Nintendo.

 

Eh?

 

Sega developed many more arcade ports and action games for Master System than they did RPGs. The only notable RPG they developed for SMS was Phantasy Star. The rest of the Sega library was filled with ports of arcade games like Space Harrier, Outrun, and Shinobi, or action games like the Alex Kidd games. Even a game like the legendary Wonderboy games aren't RPGs, but action/adventures (like Legend of Zelda).

 

If Atari would of been smart they would of focused on Arcade style fighters.

 

No. If Atari were smart they would've released Panther in early/mid '91 as originally planne and held off on Jaguar until late '94 or early '95 when they could've better gauged the competition, better designed the console (remove the stock 68k and replace with a true 32-bit processor, and add more RAM) and have had better dev tools.

 

Seriously, had they released Panther in '91 they might've gotten enough of an install base and dev support (particularly in Europe, where their ST, which Panther apparently had some relation) to have made a transition to Jag released later on (late '94/early '95) much smoother. Hell, I'd go further and say they should've held off on Jag until late '95/early '96 so as to upgrade it as much as possible, have better dev tools, give Panther a longer life cycle, and possibly have it use CD-ROM standard.

 

If they would of foubd a way to release the system w/Mortal Kombat 2(add in 2 new playable characters) or even Arcade perfect Primal Rage and included arcade sticks of some sort....Even better include a light Gun and have Area 51.

 

It wasn't just lack of Mortal Kombat that hurt Jag. It was lack of good focus on the parts of the executives in charge. They rushed release of a next gen console which wasn't finished yet and still needed to be ironed out, and due to their cheap ways straphanged it with a 16/32 processor (the 68k) when they could've used a true 32-bit processor instead.

 

Those games would've helped somewhat, but not in a truly major way.

 

See I would of said sports but at the time every good Sports person was either working for EA/launching the 3D0 or Sega.

 

EA wasn't behind the 3DO. The 3DO Company was, with Trip Hawkins in charge. Yes, due to Hawkins being a former honcho over at EA, there was buddy-buddy between the two companies, but EA still released stuff for the other platforms (Sega, Nintendo). So, y'know...EA would've supported Atari...had they released Panther in '91 as originally planned instead of killing that project (which was pretty much finished) and rushing Jaguar ahead of schedule. EA supported the ST, after all, and Panther apparently seemed to have a lot in common with the ST line.

[Ze_ro]

The jaguar has some [...] decent fighting games

I have to disagree with you here... All the fighting games that they did manage to release were highly flawed:

• Kasumi Ninja - Terrible controls (Holding C button to do moves makes you a sitting duck), poor animation, silly character design.
  
• Fight For Life - Slow gameplay, poor textures, and poor 3D models (Decent for the Jaguar I guess, but other systems were already doing much better). I like how you can learn new moves though, that was a nice touch that really helped the game.
  
• Primal Rage - While the animation and graphics are all there, they botched the combo system... so none of the combos that worked in the arcade work here. There's no reason this couldn't have been arcade perfect (I'm willing to overlook the "loading for fatalities" issue even).
  
• Ultra Vortek - I'd say this was actually the best of the bunch, but the controls are kind of funny here too. Could have been a good replacement for Mortal Kombat if they had tightened it up a bit.
  
• Double Dragon V - This game is just crap. Terrible controls, and laughable character design.
  
• Dragon - Stiff gameplay, and just not very fun at all.
  

The sad thing is, back in the days, I was REALLY envious of Way of the Warrior on the 3DO. I kept wishing the Jaguar would get a fighting game as good as that instead of this Kasumi Ninja BS. It wasn't until about 10 years later that I actually PLAYED Way of the Warrior... Kasumi Ninja didn't seem so bad after that

 

There is one true RPG/adventure game out there, finished, and will hopefully be released soon; Robinson's Requiem.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... this is going to be released? Where? By who? When? FINISHED finished, or just "band-aids over the bleeding parts" finished?

 

I was REALLY looking forward to this game back in the days. I've played the PC version, and despite the fact that it's brutally difficult, I always really enjoyed it. If there's any way I can get my hands on a Jaguar version, I will jump at the chance!

 

As for sports games, they actually had quite a few in development... if the Jaguar had survived another 6 months, we might have seen the likes of Brett Hull Hockey, Charles Barkley Basketball, Arena Football, Hardball III, and maybe even Graham Gooch Cricket. Judging from what has surfaced, it doesn't seem like most of them would have been all that good, unfortunately.

 

I was always disappointed that there weren't more RPG/Adventure games on the Jaguar too. I was looking forward to Towers II for a long time, and only recently managed to get it, but it's nowhere near as good as I was hoping. I remember looking forward to Dungeon Depths too. I'm not even sure what the game was supposed to be, but surely it would have been the RPG to save the Jaguar! ...right...? Well, seeing as it was being made by the guys who did Air Cars, I'm guessing it's no big loss that it never came out, but I was a lot more optimistic when I was younger.

 

--Zero

[Clint Thompson]

I know Atari had spent a ridiculous amount of money on BI/WN to not follow through with it. (along with a lot of other titles that were never published).

The cart format being as pricey as it was I'm sure wasn't any help either. It would have been nice for them to focus their games on the CD platform but felt they would have left the original Jag owners out of the loop and upsetting? them.

 

If Atari would have followed through with the VR (which was essentially completed) and released the JagDuo setup , finishing up some games, that alone would have opened a whole new string of life for the Jaguar as nothing else could give you that same experience. They could have released a JagDuo / VR combo package for $399 and still would have been in the same price zone as the PSX, only offering a different form of entertainment.

 

JTS was a joke.

[82-T/A]

The jaguar has some [...] decent fighting games

I have to disagree with you here... All the fighting games that they did manage to release were highly flawed:

• Kasumi Ninja - Terrible controls (Holding C button to do moves makes you a sitting duck), poor animation, silly character design.
  
• Fight For Life - Slow gameplay, poor textures, and poor 3D models (Decent for the Jaguar I guess, but other systems were already doing much better). I like how you can learn new moves though, that was a nice touch that really helped the game.
  
• Primal Rage - While the animation and graphics are all there, they botched the combo system... so none of the combos that worked in the arcade work here. There's no reason this couldn't have been arcade perfect (I'm willing to overlook the "loading for fatalities" issue even).
  
• Ultra Vortek - I'd say this was actually the best of the bunch, but the controls are kind of funny here too. Could have been a good replacement for Mortal Kombat if they had tightened it up a bit.
  
• Double Dragon V - This game is just crap. Terrible controls, and laughable character design.
  
• Dragon - Stiff gameplay, and just not very fun at all.
  

The sad thing is, back in the days, I was REALLY envious of Way of the Warrior on the 3DO. I kept wishing the Jaguar would get a fighting game as good as that instead of this Kasumi Ninja BS. It wasn't until about 10 years later that I actually PLAYED Way of the Warrior... Kasumi Ninja didn't seem so bad after that

 

Hah... well, I actually thought for a minute or two before I put that sentence in there. The ONLY reason I put it in there was because of Ultra Vortek, which basically was JUST as good as any Mortal Kombat or similar game that came out during the time. That, plus the fact that Primal Rage (at least in my opinion) was actually pretty good. Also Dragon was pretty decent too, once you get into it. Double Dragon V to me, seems like it's missing 3/4ths of the game. Where is the side scroller part? I really don't understand the point of that game. I was SOOO expecting that I was going to get a continuation of the Double Dragon series...

 

But, when you consider Ultra Vortek, Dragon, and Primal Rage, it really had some decent fighting games. Fight For Life was /OK/, but as you say, it has slow game play. Because of that, I find it hard to play. I mean, it's not the best, but I think this is ONE area where I felt that they actually at least met the mark. For 1995 standards. You can't REALY consider Fight for Life, since, didn't it come out RIGHT after the Jaguar died?

Edited May 26, 2008 by 82-T/A

[82-T/A]

I know Atari had spent a ridiculous amount of money on BI/WN to not follow through with it. (along with a lot of other titles that were never published).

The cart format being as pricey as it was I'm sure wasn't any help either. It would have been nice for them to focus their games on the CD platform but felt they would have left the original Jag owners out of the loop and upsetting? them.

 

If Atari would have followed through with the VR (which was essentially completed) and released the JagDuo setup , finishing up some games, that alone would have opened a whole new string of life for the Jaguar as nothing else could give you that same experience. They could have released a JagDuo / VR combo package for $399 and still would have been in the same price zone as the PSX, only offering a different form of entertainment.

 

JTS was a joke.

 

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jaguar was completely axed in 1995. And Atari, as of that point, was basically officially "done". I mean, I might be mis-understanding it, but I believe JTS was nothing more than a hard drive company that bought Atari for the naming rights and left over assets. I'm pretty sure that 99.95% of the employees were laid off when Atari was sold to JTS. (or at least within a month of the sale).

 

I had a friend that worked for "Atari". He originally started out as a MicroProse employee, then MicroProse was bought by Hasbro. Shortly after that time, Hasbro bought Atari. Then InfroGrames bought both Atari AND MicroProse and they quickly (within like 6 months) decided to make Atari the major branding. So, while people might be upset with InfroGrames right now... I've got to say that Atari was pretty much gone. And... you owe all of that to JTS just as much as you do the Trameils. JTS did NOTHING with Atari except sell off the rights to various patents and game licenses that they had. So, they did NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING but liquidate the company.

 

You could say that by 1994 Atari as we knew it was gone... but, the fact is... by 1997, Atari as EVERYONE knew it was totally gone. I mean, they don't even own a building, or rent an office, or have a single employee left from any point in the company during the 80s or early 90s.

 

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[DracIsBack]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jaguar was completely axed in 1995.

 

They laid off some staff right before Christmas and started killing off some projects. They also downsized and moved into an old bank, leaving 1196 Borregeas. Some releases kept coming in early 1996 (Fight For Life and I believe Defender 2000) but the JTS merger was announced pretty early in the year, closing that summer.

[sd32]

Adventure 2000/3D should have been a priority from the begining, that game would have filled the adv/act/rpg genre quite nicely i think . They shouldnt have spent any resources on games like Crecent Galaxy and Club Drive and focused on remakes of their golden oldies.

I would say every genre on the Jags library was missing truly AAA titles, except maybe for the combat vehicle simulators. Battle Morph and both Iron Soldiers took care of that genre quite nicely.

[DracIsBack]

• Kasumi Ninja - Terrible controls (Holding C button to do moves makes you a sitting duck), poor animation, silly character design.

The animation bugged me the most on this one. Angus made me laugh though - when he lifted that kilt for a special move!

 

• Primal Rage - While the animation and graphics are all there, they botched the combo system... so none of the combos that worked in the arcade work here. There's no reason this couldn't have been arcade perfect (I'm willing to overlook the "loading for fatalities" issue even).

I didn't mind the combo changes because I didn't play it in the arcade. It was probably my favorite Jaguar fighter though the load times really bugged me. It was just always "loading ... loading ... loading"

[Rev. Rob]

This was probably one of the few decisions that Atari did make correctly, A good role playing game takes a very long time to develope and at the time most gamers were not into anything other than the franchise games...Sega was only known for role-playing on the Master System, it was a change of focus to Sports/Fighters/Sonic that helped them crush Nintendo.

 

I guess you forgot about Phantasy Star II, III, and IV, Shining Force I and II, Shining in the Darkness, Warsong, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Sword of Vermilion, Shadowrun, Light Crusader, Crusader of Centy, Dungeons and Dragons, Rings of Power, Exile, Y's III, and that's just off the top of my head, not including some major RPGs on Sega CD.

 

Since when has a light gun game ever been a big hit on a home console?!?

Edited June 4, 2008 by Rev. Rob

[JagChris]

Weren't the House of the Dead games very popular?

Edited June 4, 2008 by JagChris