Galaga for 8-bits?

[peteym5]

Yeah well, an Atari company... Atari games Midway probably doesn't have that concern going on as parts of different ports were already in existence back in the day, while not many things made it out... It's reasonable to do what was in works back then and simply make sure to includes such notation in the credits. No one is selling this petey and it is tiresome for you to bring up whatever copyright issue at every available chance. You can do that in one of your peteyright threads. One of the reasons Atari users have the ability to make the stuff they do is that while Atari didn't always get a title out, they always had rights or permissions or one of their own divisions did.. there were so many prototypes and unfinished works that many just need to be completed or yes even finally ported as agreed to back in the day. Atari simply had so many pieces of iron in the fire it didn't know what to do about it all, a miss management nightmare. Incomplete stuff marketed and not put out, completed stuff never marketed or put out. Our user base has the unique position of being able to capitalize on that. also, most of this stuff is well past it's 14 or so years of protection, and lastly a good deal of games were not legally protected out the wazzoo like stuff is today, it simply wasn't a legal instrument at the time or was not utilized as most didn't have it taken care of properly back then (and this was true for a large number of companies).

That all being considered and said...I am not sure we can us the name petey anymore... there might be an implied signature mark involved, nobody wants to get sued by Petey M games... can't take that chance. I may have to refer to you as... the programmer formerly known as Petey but that phrase might be protected some how, better ask the Prince estate... it might be best we get a legal document drawn up so we can use the name Petey in our posts as well as possibly have the ability to talk to or with Petey. This is all too petery for me.

 

I agree this is not the place to discuss copyright issues. It is just making homebrew retro games clone can be like walking through a mind field or playing Russian Roulette. You do a few games, no one says anything. Then one day, a copyright owner shows up and states you can no longer sell or post this piece of software for free download. I can also say my threads are not a place to be discussing about digital downloads or piracy either, but it is still going on. I might had been lucky with Tempest and Venture as the companies that made them are long defunct or don't have resources to investigate and pursue legal action or even care about what goes on with Atari platforms. A lawyer or one of those organizations can also represent an author. That is why I am trying to stick with more original work or make enough of a difference in anything similar reduce that risk. It is some members of this community that is putting the demand on cloning something from the arcade.

[_The Doctor__]

If it's not the place then stop starting it everywhere, then continue with propagating it further.

Did you ever consider the holders such as myself or others on these forums enjoy seeing this being done and aren't out to get everyone? Or that it's long since expired, and it's not a concern. You will see the original folks shaking hands and praising people for making it better or bringing them back to life or spreading these/our creations to people who would have never know our works, or the works of our friends. Now if you were to claim it as being your own without giving credit or due, or were to put it out on a modern day platform with some large conglomerate to make money, and we don't get our portion... well that becomes another story. We are all dreamers at heart, creators, This is all done out of such stuff these days. Let's have fun. It's all good. And there is a lot to do. It's always good to get the blessings, and tributes are almost always a source of happiness and taken as an honor.

 

If you are going to port or make a version of something from the arcade, it should be like the arcade, that's the point. Otherwise come up with your own original idea. I will say it's been cool to see mashups of games where the two or more games are put together to make something awesome.The combination makes it a complete and wonderful thing that might have been lacking otherwise.

 

Galaga is pretty iconic. It deserves a close as possible port. Others not so much.

The demand is for a port not a clone most of the time, I wasn't aware you were in charge of or the creator of this project pete, I think this ball was rolling a while ago. You keep speaking as if this is all yours. In any event, I found the ignore function. I am going to see if it works. I want to see more constructive posts.

Edited September 22, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[+Philsan]

In the last years tens of games have been ported or converted to Atari 8-bit (the last one is Time Pilot).

 

An important point is that they are all labour of love free to download, no one makes money with them.

 

If I am not wrong the only exceptions are Venture and Tempest Xtreem/Elite.

[_The Doctor__]

You are not wrong.

 

I like the way Galaga used to capture the ship during gameplay, sometimes I couldn't get captured when I wanted other times I got captured when I didn't wish to be!

 

It was a cool thing, and sure was an added layer of fun back in the day.

[+CharlieChaplin]

I think you probably have to compromise somewhere if you want it to run on stock hardware and there will be various opinions about what it must do. For me that would be 60Hz, single line resolution with the full number of enemies - I am not concerned about colours or how the formation moves. I would not want to put a lot of effort into something unless I was confident of the results, so for me it's something only to dabble with now and then.

 

In case they may be of use these tests take the path data from the 7800 version and use exclusive-or bitmapped mode with reasonable results. The graphics for the small version come from Galactic Chase, one of the first games I brought for the A8. So perhaps I would end up doing Galactic Gala. Anyway, my "plan" is to do character mode tests next year.

 

 

Hmmm, I prefer the version with the bigger ships. The smaller ones look too much like Galactic Chase (yes I read that you took them from there). But being an egoist, I already have Galactic Chase on original tape somewhere and also as a selfmade cart. - and now I would like to see Galaga on the A8 and not another Galactic Chase...

[kiwilove]

Nice to see a proper test up and running. For me - it's the bigger the better - and of course - it looks like Galaga - and if you can use the authentic sounds - nice!

There would have to be compromises if the hardware comes up short for doing something very very close..

Going for the smaller scale would only make sense - if it was running faster and you had better control - more response.

 

It is not up to the users to dictate what the programmer should and should not do with their project - and can only voice their preference. Whether the programmer listens and takes it on board - is their choice.

I don't see anything wrong with being really creative and making it a clone - making it Galaga inspired - if they want to go that route. In the past they do so - more so for copyright issues.

 

And I don't think users can say that a programmer should do their work for 'free' - when a few others (or the majority?) have done so. There is nothing wrong with a programmer wanting some compensation for the amount of time and effort they have put into their projects.

There will be various reasons why someone will choose to do it for free - some of which has been mentioned already.

 

Too critical comments in these forums can possibly kill interest in working on new projects - when expectations are so high. While I think it's not right when too much praise is given - and negative/critical comments are left out - is not entirely the right approach too. I really dislike having to give out my own personal opinions on various projects because I do not wish to offend people for their work on their various projects. I'll just say I don't agree with all the praise given to most projects - but I appreciate those who have put in the time and effort with their work.

 

Harvey

[miker]

Wow really nice ones!

 

Can't decide which one is better.

 

Here are some of my old Galaga sound tries to play with.

 

Note: VERY OLD (about 2008-2009).

 

 

galaga_snd.zip

[+Philsan]

And I don't think users can say that a programmer should do their work for 'free' - when a few others (or the majority?) have done so. There is nothing wrong with a programmer wanting some compensation for the amount of time and effort they have put into their projects.

There will be various reasons why someone will choose to do it for free - some of which has been mentioned already.

 

It's pretty obvious. I think no one ever asked programmers to release games for free. It's their choice and everyone thanks them for their work, both simple Basic games and top notch productions. I buy most of the games on sale for A8, even if they are free to download (but have a nice package).

If you are referring to my only post in this thread (#153), it's related to copyright issues/fears someone raised and discussed in previous posts.

My point of view is that if a game is ported/converted, copyright holders prefer that you don't make money with it. Pretty obvious too.

[peteym5]

I have to look at the source code of the samples provided. Trying to figure out the routines that copies the bitmap patterns to the screen. I have ways of speeding this stuff up with self-modifying code.

[peteym5]

Too critical comments in these forums can possibly kill interest in working on new projects - when expectations are so high. While I think it's not right when too much praise is given - and negative/critical comments are left out - is not entirely the right approach too. I really dislike having to give out my own personal opinions on various projects because I do not wish to offend people for their work on their various projects. I'll just say I don't agree with all the praise given to most projects - but I appreciate those who have put in the time and effort with their work.

I am not responding anymore to copyright issues as this is leading to negativity on this thread. But on the free or profit subject, I can see I am not the only one who sold software for Atari. Dungeon Hunt, and all the titles released through GR8. were sold for profit. I think someone had something going on with a Tetris like game. I did propose to KJMANN certain titles be released after 5 years, or when games sales go very slow. But we all seen how he was about this stuff.

Edited September 22, 2018 by peteym5

[+Stephen]

I am not responding anymore to copyright issues as this is leading to negativity on this thread. But on the free or profit subject, I can see I am not the only one who sold software for Atari. Dungeon Hunt, and all the titles released through GR8. were sold for profit. I think someone had something going on with a Tetris like game. I did propose to KJMANN certain titles be released after 5 years, or when games sales go very slow. But we all seen how he was about this stuff.

Just putting this out here - every other game that was sold was also offered for free. Guess what - people still bought them, for nice packaging, boxes, or just to show support.

[_The Doctor__]

omg i set him to be ignored but he is still going on, the filter doesn't block quotes of blocked folks evidently. but it does a fair job on everything else I suggest we all go to profile setting ignore....

[R0ger]

We have the power of the common forum tools. What about starting new thread about the copyright issues, pricing and so on ?

[Keatah]

Well, I think cooler heads will prevail and we'll end up with another Time Pilot.

 

Edit: FWIW I think this should be developed to the lowest common denominator practical while staying true to arcade, after all it is a port not a remake. While it involves more work, I'm not opposed to seeing a VBXE enhanced version. But VBXE should not be a base requirement. Just my $0.02.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Keatah

[Heaven/TQA]

Wow really nice ones!

 

Can't decide which one is better.

 

Here are some of my old Galaga sound tries to play with.

 

Note: VERY OLD (about 2008-2009).

 

 

Very old? 2008 feels like yesterday compared to 80s

[peteym5]

This is about Galaga. It would be a few days before I am able to look over the source code and see If I can find a way to optimize anything with the sprite to screen copy thing further. I willing to lend the programmers some of my help because I want to see this game happen also. I will go along with whatever the programmers wish for the final distribution of the game. The game certainly is far from finished and give Powersoft some time to get stuff done.

[kiwilove]

It would be good to see any version of a decent attempt at Galaga done - in whatever kind of version the programmer(s) decide upon. And if more than one such project appears - so much the better. Showing different approaches for it?

Hopefully the sound effects/etc could be shared - if there is the desire/need to do so.

 

There is no need to rush to complete it - as it's been MIA for so long. I wouldn't have high expectations for it - because of the technical issues to deal with.

 

Harvey

[emkay]

let's go

I wonder , if it is possible to change the game a little:

 

using 32 Bytes width.

Game screen adjustment to 32 Bytes. Changing the space between the ships 1/1.25 ?

Edited September 23, 2018 by emkay

[+playsoft]

You did a really great job with this. It is a great start. I will go with this set up for the completed version.

 

As you have seen mentioned in this thread, there are lots of other possibilities which need to be explored. I will share anything I do in case it is useful, but I am only likely to touch it a couple of times a year.

 

I think for the challenging stages it would be better to double buffer the bitmap and do proper and/or plotting. This will actually be quicker as the advantage of the single buffer exclusive-or is really only for the formation. From a previous test (for something else) double buffer with column draw/erase was able to handle 12 sprites at 60Hz similar to the large sized sprites here (from what I remember). So I think the challenging stages can work perfectly at this resolution with the large sprites at 60Hz. Of course that will require some memory, for the second buffer, the column draw/erase routines and the sprite masks.

 

It is also feasible in the formation stages for the program to detect when it is too busy for 60Hz and switch to half frame rate mode where it doubles up the movement steps. Similarly when it detects that it can run at 60Hz again it can go back to full frame rate mode (with a bit of hysteresis to stop it switching too often). This will mean that the player would not notice any slowdown, just that the sprite movements become more coarse. Most of the time the player is blasting enemies so maybe this will only happen if they keep missing!

 

I do think you need to explore character mode. At it's busiest my test moves 5 formation sprites plus the 8 incoming ones in a single frame. Really there should be 10 incoming ones, as after the opening stages you get 10 incoming enemies, 8 go into formation and 2 go straight into attack. Potentially character mode allows you to do the formation with hardware, so even if the sprite handling is not significantly quicker it may still benefit.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[+playsoft]

 

Looks really good. I think the 'small' version even looks better.

 

I like the small ones too. The 7800 sprites are only a little larger than these, so the paths are better suited to the smaller size.

 

I think the 7800 formation paths are too slow and the challenging paths a mixed bunch; some are fine, others are too slow or too fast.

[kiwilove]

I know this is a big ask - but if there's any way to add more animations to the game - maybe this can make up for the shortfall in colours?

Or to add something else to the game - to compensate for such shortfall...

 

(or something in the way of minor enhancements or additions to the standard game?)

Since there is going to be considerable work put into it - why not make this 8-bit Atari conversion - a little extra special?

 

(Even try alt-design graphic changes? - for those wanting to try some better/custom designs out?)

 

Harvey

Edited September 23, 2018 by kiwilove

[peteym5]

 

As you have seen mentioned in this thread, there are lots of other possibilities which need to be explored. I will share anything I do in case it is useful, but I am only likely to touch it a couple of times a year.

 

I think for the challenging stages it would be better to double buffer the bitmap and do proper and/or plotting. This will actually be quicker as the advantage of the single buffer exclusive-or is really only for the formation. From a previous test (for something else) double buffer with column draw/erase was able to handle 12 sprites at 60Hz similar to the large sized sprites here (from what I remember). So I think the challenging stages can work perfectly at this resolution with the large sprites at 60Hz. Of course that will require some memory, for the second buffer, the column draw/erase routines and the sprite masks.

 

It is also feasible in the formation stages for the program to detect when it is too busy for 60Hz and switch to half frame rate mode where it doubles up the movement steps. Similarly when it detects that it can run at 60Hz again it can go back to full frame rate mode (with a bit of hysteresis to stop it switching too often). This will mean that the player would not notice any slowdown, just that the sprite movements become more coarse. Most of the time the player is blasting enemies so maybe this will only happen if they keep missing!

 

I do think you need to explore character mode. At it's busiest my test moves 5 formation sprites plus the 8 incoming ones in a single frame. Really there should be 10 incoming ones, as after the opening stages you get 10 incoming enemies, 8 go into formation and 2 go straight into attack. Potentially character mode allows you to do the formation with hardware, so even if the sprite handling is not significantly quicker it may still benefit.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts.

I know we are all busy and do this in our spare time. Maybe we can make a nice title splash screen, port the music to RMT, or other elements of the game. What assembly compiler do you use for the binaries? I have been using MADS.

[EnderDude]

I made a logo where the blue is a quad pm, and the darker green is a DLI in GIMP:

Edited September 23, 2018 by EnderDude

[emkay]

Hm.... the fastest version could be:

 

32 Bytes width

full height

hires

EOR Software Sprites.

 

a fair solution could be to use

 

color single scanline mode

and for more colors the PMG should be used as blocky underlays.

this means a "not black" border, but the playfield would reach Arcade qualities without big RAM usage.

 

 

Character mode could be used. Just as in Drop Zone, to reach full fps . Luckily no additional Background is used, just the stars, which is no problem on the Atari.... a lot pre shifting needed...

Edited September 23, 2018 by emkay

[kiwilove]

Extra animations and extras I was thinking of - which are only suggestions as such .... and are not 'must haves'

animating the fired laser shots? in some way?

More frames for explosions.

 

Later stages could have changes in enemy sprites - and other small enhancements to make it worthwhile

playing through to see them.

Maybe even ship swap change? Explosion animations could change later on?

(could even have these as toggle options - so that a standard 'Galaga' is there - plus easier version(s).)

A hint to Galplus - by having a secret weapon available (easter egg maybe?)

Challenging stage can vary more in their flight path in later stages.

 

Taking your time with it to ensure a worthwhile end result - and allow some customizing of the graphics (for those who can do so).

 

Harvey