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Galaga for 8-bits?

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17 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

But if games like GALAGA would have been a real market / sales priority for Apple, we would have seen it, and (most likely) pretty well executed.

Like Apple Pippin? 🤣

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12 minutes ago, Dinadan67 said:

Like Apple Pippin? 🤣

 

No, like Choplifter for instance (an Apple II original) which was then ported to Atari, mostly on Gr.8, even supporting  A8's artifacting  (sorry PAL folks!) and kept me entertained for MANY hours, without use of hw-supoorted sprites, or any fancy GFX features.

 

(NOTE: without mentioning Prince-of-Persia, now to be eventually released for Atari, and already looking like a real masterpiece).

 

Time to update your story-line, as it seems broken somewhere. 😜😉

 

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TBH, I'd rater play a game on a monochrome amber or green phosphor CRT than use artifacting. Leveraging the inherent weakness of the colour composite connection to blur colours together to make other colours looks downright terrible. The Asteroids emulator port for the A8 has no colours and I love it. 

 

Furthermore, certain Apple marketing material for the IIc literally promotes the device as a 'kiddie computer'. The device was even featured in a kiddie movie in the day, no doubt deliberate product placement.

 

TBH, I'm typing this on a Pi400 overclocked running TwsterOS - In itself marketed as a kiddie computer.

 

U7uQz7m.png

Edited by Mazzspeed

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Oh, I see.

 

In that case case, since monochrome is better, let´s stick to it on the Galaga A8-version, and (thanks God) avoiding altogether the ugly color-palette shown in another port, somewhere else.

 

Always loved that add!! Apple II/c being carefully positioned and promoted as a tool of choice for learning and productivity (separate from the II/e), instead of a cut-throat, cheaply-built computer with an architecture tuned for games (eg. "kiddie" computer).

 

Here's the nicer version of that add, from my favorites, with plenty of CRT-color as well:

 

APPLE-AD-IIc-Every_kid-1984-3.thumb.jpg.7fcf3c83b814c8be30860392d0e9e560.jpg

 

Nothing wrong with entertainment, though (I am a huge fan of arcade-Galaga, to begin with...)

 

 

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OK, I see the underlying tone here...

 

If I use my tools to repair toys, I don't use 'toy tools'. A computer, any computer, is a tool: Assuming software is available, it can be the perfect tool for the job depending on usage case.

 

Anyway, best we get back to Galaga discussion as I'm not interested in following your flawed crusade.

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13 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

Anyway, best we get back to Galaga discussion

Excellent!!

 

My vote for Galaga A8, without shit-looking color-palette, and a nice soft-sprite engine to boot (as many sprites as possible, resembling the original...)

 

Worthwhile crusading for! 

 

8-)

 

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AtariBlast certainly has lots of soft sprites, let's do it here. If it is a problem of RAM, support the big machines. IDC if it requires 1M and a HD. I know it can happen.

:)

 

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6 hours ago, Kyle22 said:

AtariBlast certainly has lots of soft sprites, let's do it here. If it is a problem of RAM, support the big machines. IDC if it requires 1M and a HD. I know it can happen.

:)

 

There's a thread on the 5200 (target platform for the initial version) forums about it. Playsoft wasn't having any major development problems; he simply was getting exhausting working on Atari 8-bit/5200 games and had decided to move on in life. The demos done up to that point were amazingly fast and fluid, and pointed to an Atari version not only being possible on standard hardware, but having excellent performance and playability.

 

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On 10/1/2021 at 4:18 AM, MrFish said:

There's a thread on the 5200 (target platform for the initial version) forums about it. Playsoft wasn't having any major development problems; he simply was getting exhausting working on Atari 8-bit/5200 games and had decided to move on in life. The demos done up to that point were amazingly fast and fluid, and pointed to an Atari version not only being possible on standard hardware, but having excellent performance and playability.

 

Well, I guess we woke @playsoft up (over in the 5200 forum, by some A8 related posts over there). He's posted some binaries of updated A8 versions of the 5200 demos, which he'd been developing simultaneously.

 

Download here: Another Galaga Thread (5200, Playsoft)

 

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47 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Super nice!!!

 

(posted over there, already)

 

Fired it up on Sophia-II and this WIP version is already looking significantly better than the C64, especially on the color-department, and overall fluidity / speed... feels very arcade-like, indeed.

 

The aspect-ratio is different than Arcade (being the latter much taller), but the basic ingredients are already there!

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6 hours ago, MrFish said:

 

Well, I guess we woke @playsoft up (over in the 5200 forum, by some A8 related posts over there). He's posted some binaries of updated A8 versions of the 5200 demos, which he'd been developing simultaneously.

 

Download here: Another Galaga Thread (5200, Playsoft)

 

I was actually asking @_The Doctor__ the other day in IRC chat just where the A8 binaries were as all I could find were 5200 binaries. I'll have to give this a shot.

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6 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Fired it up on Sophia-II and this WIP version is already looking significantly better than the C64, especially on the color-department, and overall fluidity / speed... feels very arcade-like, indeed.

At this point in time, as an owner of both an A8 (also with Sophia 2) and the 'other machine' (It's already been mentioned by other users so I assume that by Albert's ruling it's OK to discuss, as long as discussion is kept civil) colour palette is a matter of personal preference, I don't see an issue with the colours regarding either port. Furthermore the speed of game play on PAL machines is as far as I can tell, identical - In fact the C64 running on a 1084S CRT appears very fluid. I think the C64 version actually has more sprites on the screen (45 on the A8 vs 50 on the C64 in quick testing).

 

The A8 demo shows definite promise, however the aspect ratio is wrong considering the original arcade game - It needs to be more 3:4 as opposed to 4:3. All in all, very impressive considering its a surprisingly difficult game to port.

 

I'm working out that the trick to Galaga is not to just 'fire away' when the enemy is in formation or attacking one at a time, in such a scenario it's best to use controlled and well timed firing. However, when the enemy is looping into formation, get in the right location and fire away at that swarm!

 

Edited by Mazzspeed

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Each level has different characteristics coming into formation so the tactic at the start can change.

Generally you want to knock them off the edges like Space Invaders, that means when they swoop the bullet coverage will be a bit less.

The bees are generally the most dangerous and don't contribute to mothership points so best to get rid of first though you want to retain enough to get the mutant bonus each stage.

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40 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

I don't see an issue with the colours regarding either port. 

I am long-tine fan of Galaga (and Galaga-88). Played it at coin-ops, mostly. 

 

I know how the real thing looks, and the C64 version's color (as shown on this thread, and on that video) notoriously sucks. Plain and simple.


We are still talking about a demo / WIP on the Atari, and it is yet to be seen the CPU/GPU usage or balance the author will strike, once all inputs, effects and game-dynamics are accounted for. Only then, we will be able to compare or evaluate a finished product. At this point, it is all wait-and-see.

 

In Galaga, the most important thing is not how many sprites are bunched up in the middle of the screen... but how many MOVE simultaneously, and how fast. The C64 version I've seen here feels a bit lethargic, compared to the Arcade, with a rather narrow playfield and a sparsely populated parallax star-field.

 

The A8 proto, on the other hand, feels very arcade, bright and denser star field, and a pretty colorful sprite-set.... (although a messed-up aspect ratio, which is a function of the actual h-resolution chosen for final rendering). But as I said, there's plenty more of CPU-consuming stuff that needs to be accounted for, and not yet present on this WIP version.

 

We'll see down the road.

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5 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

I am long-tine fan of Galaga (and Galaga-88). Played it at coin-ops, mostly. 

 

I know how the real thing looks, and the C64 version's color (as shown on this thread, and on that video) notoriously sucks. Plain and simple.


We are still talking about a demo / WIP on the Atari, and it is yet to be seen the CPU/GPU usage or balance the author will strike, once all inputs, effects and game-dynamics are accounted for. Only then, we will be able to compare or evaluate a finished product. At this point, it is all wait-and-see.

 

In Galaga, the most important thing is not how many sprites are bunched up in the middle of the screen... but how many MOVE simultaneously, and how fast. The C64 version I've seen here feels a bit lethargic, compared to the Arcade, with a rather narrow playfield and a sparsely populated parallax star-field. The A8 proto, on the other hand, feels very arcade, bright and denser star field, and a pretty colorful sprite-set.... but as I said, there's plenty more of CPU-consuming stuff that needs to be accounted for, and not yet present on this WIP version.

 

We'll see down the road.

Well, I can't agree on certain aspects as someone that actually owns both PAL machines, perhaps NTSC is different. The fact the C64 can move hardware sprites in high resolution even on a low resolution screen, tends to indicate that speed and fluidity is, and should be, perfectly fine.

 

Each to their own, I'm simply stating honest observation as I see it. I do agree that judgement cannot be laid on the A8 demo when it's so obviously unfinished and I would never do so for that very reason. Having said that, the C64 port has seen numerous revisions, so even the C64 port may be unfinished.

 

12 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Each level has different characteristics coming into formation so the tactic at the start can change.

Generally you want to knock them off the edges like Space Invaders, that means when they swoop the bullet coverage will be a bit less.

The bees are generally the most dangerous and don't contribute to mothership points so best to get rid of first though you want to retain enough to get the mutant bonus each stage.

Great tips Rybags, thank you!

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32 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Each level has different characteristics coming into formation so the tactic at the start can change.

Generally you want to knock them off the edges like Space Invaders, that means when they swoop the bullet coverage will be a bit less.

The bees are generally the most dangerous and don't contribute to mothership points so best to get rid of first though you want to retain enough to get the mutant bonus each stage.

sensible advice.

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Besides the whole discussion and conversation going on here... I visit this thread because I saw the WIP 5200/XL/XE port of Galaga, and I was absolutely THRILLED to see that.

 

I seriously LOVE Galaga, and this port looks extremely promising. Can't wait!

 

For everyone involved in this port: keep doing the great work! You are adding another classic title to the amazing game library of atari 8bit. Highly appreciated.

 

I have not much opinion about colors or graphics. The only thing I can say, is that what I saw in the demo, looked very cool. So if that is the path the development team is following: go ahead, it is great!

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