wtf? Someone is posting Vong roms on some website

[Wickeycolumbus]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post this on, but I have some what of a question to ask.

 

I was googling Vong, and I found this site called "PDRoms". On this site are several Vong ROMs (or at least links to them). I dont really have a problem with this, it just bugs me that someone just posted them there without even asking me if they could. My question is, did this ever happen to other peoples homebrews? Should I worry about this?

 

EDIT:

here is an example of what I am talking about:

http://www.pdroms.de/news/11295/

Edited July 21, 2008 by Wickeycolumbus

[Cybergoth]

They have Crazy Ballon and Seawolf, but are missing Colony 7, Gunfight and Star Fire. I'm actually cool with this, gives my babies more exposure

 

They didn't ask for permission in those two cases, but I'd have given it anyway.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

All my ROMs are floating around the web too. Feel honoured!

[Andrew Davie]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post this on, but I have some what of a question to ask.

 

I was googling Vong, and I found this site called "PDRoms". On this site are several Vong ROMs (or at least links to them). I dont really have a problem with this, it just bugs me that someone just posted them there without even asking me if they could. My question is, did this ever happen to other peoples homebrews? Should I worry about this?

 

EDIT:

here is an example of what I am talking about:

http://www.pdroms.de/news/11295/

 

 

PD means "public domain". Basically when you release a ROM to the public through, say, the Atari Age forums, you are giving people permission to copy it and publish it elsewhere. That's what I understand "public domain" to mean. What you are not doing is giving people permission to profit from it. So, I agree with Thomas -- be happy it's being distributed. There's lots of my stuff floating around; I don't worry about it.

[TMR]

PD means "public domain". Basically when you release a ROM to the public through, say, the Atari Age forums, you are giving people permission to copy it and publish it elsewhere. That's what I understand "public domain" to mean. What you are not doing is giving people permission to profit from it. So, I agree with Thomas -- be happy it's being distributed. There's lots of my stuff floating around; I don't worry about it.

 

[Nods] We do pretty much the same at Oldschool Gaming, for any games we review that were taken from a public domain source (as opposed to titles that are only available on real media that we've been given review copies of) we link to the author and mirror a copy of the game on the site itself. OSG also has news items about completed projects on our front page and forum - that said, with all the public beta tests and even pre-alpha discussion here, trying to work out what has actually been completed is a right bugger and i wish you lot'd be a bit more organised! =-)

[Eckhard Stolberg]

PD means "public domain". Basically when you release a ROM to the public through, say, the Atari Age forums, you are giving people permission to copy it and publish it elsewhere. That's what I understand "public domain" to mean. What you are not doing is giving people permission to profit from it. So, I agree with Thomas -- be happy it's being distributed. There's lots of my stuff floating around; I don't worry about it.

I don't know the intellectual property laws in Australia, but I think your interpretation of the term "public domain" is wrong. Public Domain means that no-one has any rights to the game and that therefore anyone could do what he likes with it - including distribution for profit. See wikipedia's entry on public domain for more details.

 

Luckily simply posting a binary in a message board doesn't make it public domain. Infact it doesn't give anyone any rights at all (except maybe the right to download the binary). If you wanted to allow people to make copies of your game or even to play it on an emulator or a RAM cartridge, you'd have to include a license text which allows that. Otherwise no-one could legally do anything with your game.

 

 

Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg

[Underball]

PD means "public domain". Basically when you release a ROM to the public through, say, the Atari Age forums, you are giving people permission to copy it and publish it elsewhere. That's what I understand "public domain" to mean. What you are not doing is giving people permission to profit from it. So, I agree with Thomas -- be happy it's being distributed. There's lots of my stuff floating around; I don't worry about it.

I don't know the intellectual property laws in Australia, but I think your interpretation of the term "public domain" is wrong. Public Domain means that no-one has any rights to the game and that therefore anyone could do what he likes with it - including distribution for profit. See wikipedia's entry on public domain for more details.

 

Luckily simply posting a binary in a message board doesn't make it public domain. Infact it doesn't give anyone any rights at all (except maybe the right to download the binary). If you wanted to allow people to make copies of your game or even to play it on an emulator or a RAM cartridge, you'd have to include a license text which allows that. Otherwise no-one could legally do anything with your game.

 

 

Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg

 

Even though this may be technically correct, there isn't a court in the world that would waste the time and resources of the court trying to enforce copyright laws on obscure and difficult to find Atari 2600 homebrewed games, 99.999% of which have NOT been properly submitted for copyright protection, in 2008.

 

You would need to prove monetary damages. Pretty hard to prove you're losing money on something you've never sold, that other websites are giving out for free.

[mos6507]

I've actually seen Death Derby WIPs online as well. Weird.

Edited July 21, 2008 by mos6507

[LS_Dracon]

My roms are in this site too.

I don't care, they post links to rom topic, and said who is the author.

Although my roms are not public domain, I'm the owner and it's free for download.

[Wickeycolumbus]

My roms are in this site too.

I don't care, they post links to rom topic, and said who is the author.

Although my roms are not public domain, I'm the owner and it's free for download.

 

I dont really care either, but in my case, they did not even credit me.

[potatohead]

Ooze! is there too.

 

And they were nice and included the game instruction text, source code, and the binary. Sweet!

 

Yeah, if you post them up here, they end up all over the place. IMHO, a good thing. People move on, things change, games continue to exist.

[Tom]

romnation hosts rfk7800. Of course only the ROM, without the license or the source, so they're violating the GPL, those idiots

Complaining would most likely be a waste of time, though. I guess it is possible to talk to the guys over at pdroms, though. I met Coyote briefly once at a Swiss demo party, friendly guy.

[TMR]

I dont really care either, but in my case, they did not even credit me.

 

Tell 'em, the bloke who runs PDROMS.de only has the best intentions as far as i can tell so just get in touch and say "h'lo, that's my game - can you put my name next to it please?" or similar.

[Mord]

Even though this may be technically correct, there isn't a court in the world that would waste the time and resources of the court trying to enforce copyright laws on obscure and difficult to find Atari 2600 homebrewed games, 99.999% of which have NOT been properly submitted for copyright protection, in 2008.

 

You would need to prove monetary damages. Pretty hard to prove you're losing money on something you've never sold, that other websites are giving out for free.

 

Actually, you'd just have to claim statutory damages, like how the RIAA/MPAA work with their lawsuits. In no way do they attempt to prove or quantify monetary damages by doing this. The only problem I'd have with stuff turning up on a place like a "public domain" rom site is that people will actually THINK it's public domain, when it isn't. You don't lose your copyright just because you posted a rom (or even source) for it up for free on the internet. You wouldn't be able to sue someone for downloading either of them by doing this, but the only rights you're granting to them is the right to download and play the rom or read the code unless you're explicitly telling them they can do more. Mind you, I'm not a lawyer, but I read slashdot.

 

I suppose one thing you could do when you post roms is declare that it is not in the public domain in the same post as the attachment. Not that someone who manages a site like that would probably care - if they did, they would only be adding roms that have been actually placed in the public domain explicitly.

[+Random Terrain]

I have stolen your ROM and placed it in a microwave set on two minutes and holding. Send me one million dollars or I'll press the start button. You have 48 hours to come up with the money. No police. No tricks.

[Wickeycolumbus]

I have stolen your ROM and placed it in a microwave set on two minutes and holding. Send me one million dollars or I'll press the start button. You have 48 hours to come up with the money. No police. No tricks.

 

Wow. I work on a game for more than 4 months for people like you to enjoy, and you make fun of me for wanting credit for it. You are a jerk.

[Underball]

I have stolen your ROM and placed it in a microwave set on two minutes and holding. Send me one million dollars or I'll press the start button. You have 48 hours to come up with the money. No police. No tricks.

 

Wow. I work on a game for more than 4 months for people like you to enjoy, and you make fun of me for wanting credit for it. You are a jerk.

You posted it as a free download on a website that doesn't require a paid subscription to join, expected no compensation for it, didn't manufacture carts for sale, and now you're kind of upset that people spread it around and it made it's way to some free rom sites.

 

I appreciate your work on the game. It's great, and certainly worthy of credit and praise.

 

But maybe you should take some remedial internets classes.

 

Regardless of the "Legal" definition of public domain, the fact that people can download this rom for free without needing to compensate you means that it HAS become public domain, simply by you posting it here. You should have set up a registered/paid users only download site to host it if you wanted to control it's release into the wild.

[+Random Terrain]

I have stolen your ROM and placed it in a microwave set on two minutes and holding. Send me one million dollars or I'll press the start button. You have 48 hours to come up with the money. No police. No tricks.

Wow. I work on a game for more than 4 months for people like you to enjoy, and you make fun of me for wanting credit for it. You are a jerk.

It's called joking around. I know you're only 6 years old or something like that, so I forgive you for the name calling. Just contact the web site and tell them to put your name on it. I don't know why they put it up on their site when you're not done yet anyway. They must not be too bright.

[Underball]

I don't know why they put it up on their site when you're not done yet anyway. They must not be too bright.

They always do that. There are like 13 different dated iterations of Kenfused's 7800 Beef Drop on some of the public domain rom sites. god knows how they got there, or why they didn't just pick one, but it is what it is.

[LS_Dracon]

Take it easy Wickey, as Thomas Jentzsch said, feel honoured.

And your name is in title screen Anyone who like your game, will do a google search.

Trust me, this site is better than a bit torrent file for a zip with all 2600 rom files.

Send an email for them.

 

Edit: Not all programmers had the same think, there are programmers that not even release the rom, and this need be respected. If you don't want see your game in that site, just ask for them to remove.

Edited July 23, 2008 by LS_Dracon

[TROGDOR]

Underball, maybe you should take some remedial legal classes. Most of your assertions are wrong, at least according to common copyright law.

 

Even though this may be technically correct, there isn't a court in the world that would waste the time and resources of the court trying to enforce copyright laws on obscure and difficult to find Atari 2600 homebrewed games, 99.999% of which have NOT been properly submitted for copyright protection, in 2008.

Courts are there for individuals and large corporations alike. If you really wanted to take legal action against someone for appropriating your copyrighted work, you can, and the courts will take you seriously. It's true that criminal courts have higher priorities, and would likely ignore any criminal complaints. But a civil court would take up the issue.

 

You do not have to submit a work for copyright protection in most countries. Copyright is implied. From wikipedia:

 

"In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights."

 

You would need to prove monetary damages. Pretty hard to prove you're losing money on something you've never sold, that other websites are giving out for free.

You don't have to prove monetary damages to prevent unauthorized distribution. You only have to prove that you are the copyright holder, and that the offender is distributing your work without permission.

 

The EFF has won several lawsuits against companies for violations of the GPL, pertaining to open source software. That software is freely distributed, but users are still bound by the terms of the license. Homebrews have similar legal protection. It's up to the authors whether they want to waive that protection.

 

You posted it as a free download on a website that doesn't require a paid subscription to join, expected no compensation for it, didn't manufacture carts for sale, and now you're kind of upset that people spread it around and it made it's way to some free rom sites.

The method of distribution is irrelevant. The creator of the work still retains the copyright.

 

Regardless of the "Legal" definition of public domain, the fact that people can download this rom for free without needing to compensate you means that it HAS become public domain, simply by you posting it here.

Absolutely wrong. Everything posted on the internet does not magically become public domain. A work only becomes public domain if the author explicitly waives all rights to the work, or if the copyright expires by the passage of time.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one in a video game. And I've read way too many slashdot copyright discussions to let those incorrect statements be taken as fact. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but site your sources. I got most of this from wikipedia.

 

Having posted all this, I'm not saying everyone should go sue-happy. But copyright law is a protection and a deterrent against having your work appropriated without your permission. It's there as a fall-back option if a simple, polite request to stop distributing your work is ignored.

 

Wickeycolumbus, if you feel strongly about your work being on the site, just send them an email asking that it be removed. From what I've read on the site, they will respect the request.

 

I noticed that Master of Arcturus is on the site too. I don't really mind that. However, when my games eventually make it to cartridge form, I would probably tell pdroms they can only post my games if the descriptions clearly state that they are not in the public domain. They're covered by the license in the README, included with the binary.

Edited July 25, 2008 by TROGDOR

[GreenDayRlz]

I`d put on some lawyer pants (If they were really stingy about it)

 

I`d feel good about it, but so mad at the same time....

 

Looks like I`m NEVER posting Game roms online.

 

My games gona cost $1.....I`m brewing now.....

Edited August 1, 2008 by GreenDayRlz

[cosmosiss]

I'll be darn. I always thought PD meant production demo.

[S1500]

What would Tyler Perry do? Oh yeah, that's right. Put "Tyler Perry" on the title about 10000 times.