Which company will blink first?

[moycon]

Damn you! I know better from you though. I was playing the Geometry Wars 2 demo yesterday and saw your score. It's pretty sick buddy.

 

Makes me sick too.

[catbox_9]

It's got to be Microsoft. The first XBOX was around for what, two weeks? Okay a little longer than that, but as soon as everyone had one they moved on. Nintendo would be insane to announce something now - you still can't get a Wii. Sony's systems tend to stay around a while so they've got no reason to change.

[JimmydelaKopin]

"Why are we back here, noble leader?"

Because Artlover is missing the point.

"And we should care why, exactly?"

Because weaker minds might actually listen to him.

"Not a convincing argument to me, but we're already here. What doesn't Artlover get?"

That it's not a good thing for a company to compete with itself.

"You mean like how Starbucks keeps opening new places in locations where they already have 5 or more locations?"

You and your latte addiction...and that's not an exact comparison.

See the problem is that Sony's PS3 is not just competing with the Wii and the XBox 360; it's also competing with the PS2. The other two in the console race have already settled in to their new consoles and pushed their developers and licensees to the new systems.

"Well, it's not like there's a market for SNES games right now, really."

Ah! And why is that?

"Because Nintendo has moved on from that, duh! Why make games for the older system when you have this brand-spanking-new system that needs all the games the market can hold for it?"

See, Diskette? You get the point I'm making!

"That's it?!"

That's what I've been saying, Diskette. Sony's really hurting itself by supporting the old console. It's not the same as when they made the sequel after TM: Black a PS1 game, because you could still play that on the PS2. But PS2 games are not made for the PS3; they're different systems and incompatible as well.

"I thought that was only for certain runs of the PS3--and besides, the PS3 has Blu-Ray--"

Which is still a small library, as the market isn't embracing the new technology all that quickly...

"--but, but the PS3 also has compatibility with the PSP--"

An abandoned Sony system--so they know how to abandon a system, by the way...

"--But, but the PS3 also has internet hookup!"

As does a cheap secondhand computer, a DSL or even dial-up hookup, and an ISP account.

"But it has Blu-Ray, neat videogames, and internet hookup all in one package!"

And for the price of one and its fancy hookups and discs, I can get a DVD player and a selection of good movies, a PS2 and a selection of good games, and a second-hand computer and an ISP hookup--and still have money left over--and all three are separate so that your friends can watch DVDs while you plays videogames and your family's on the internet.

"Maybe that's where the error is."

Like a car being pushed, I'm not following.

"Well, after spending that kind of money on a PS3, who can afford a family or friends?"

Oh, Diskeeette...

Anyway, that's why Sony needs to get its new system out first. Unless they're completely abandoning the videogame hardware market, they need a system that will refocus on the original winning strategy that made Sony get the early lead: games that are as much fun to watch as they are fun to play--

"While being super-fun to play!"

If they can do this with the next system, making it so full of games of all sorts that every gamer of all genres simply needs to have the system to get all the good games, then Sony will retake the top spot. Until then...well, they'll be forced to keep the PS3 and the PS2 around and compete with themselves.

"Personally, I think Artlover wants RCA to finally come out with their Studio III."

Oh, Diskeeeeette...

[NE146]

Damn you! I know better from you though. I was playing the Geometry Wars 2 demo yesterday and saw your score. It's pretty sick buddy.

 

Makes me sick too.

 

Well if it makes you guys feel any better, I'm pretty far from even scratching the 1st place ranking on every single Geometry Wars mode on my friends lists. Matter o' fact I'm usually buried somewhere between 3rd or 4th

[Cybergoth]

Well, Sony lost! Today they announced a new PSP

[Steril707]

I think nobody would want to replicate Segas Strategy of abandoning a system too fast. They have seen where this road leads to...

 

The backlash after Sony abandoning the PS3 for a newer model in too short a time would be tremendous...

 

And for the other two companies, they don't have any reason too abandon their current systems yet.

 

I guess Microsoft will be first too release a new console again though, but not in the next 4 Years...

[liveinabin]

I kind of agree, but I'm not as optimistic about the timescale. I reckon M$ will make their move in 2010, possibly even late 2009.

[Artlover]

"Why are we back here, noble leader?"

Because Artlover is missing the point.

Quite possibly.

 

Maybe if you would try writing like a normal person and just make your point, this could be avoided. (Psst: It was cute the first couple of messages, it's long past that stage now.)

 

As it stands, all I see is you being contradictory with whatever your point is.

 

"Personally, I think Artlover wants RCA to finally come out with their Studio III."

Hardly, but abandonding last gen as soon as next gen comes out is stupid and only forces people to buy shit they don't want or switch loyality. If you have to force people to buy your product in that mannor, then something is wrong with your product since your product should be something people want.

 

There IS a reason Sony has a history of having the largest fanbase, most games, and ultimately best selling hardware, and it's NOT because they make the best games or hardware either.

[JimmydelaKopin]

"Why are we back here, noble leader?"

Because Artlover is missing the point.

Quite possibly.

 

Maybe if you would try writing like a normal person and just make your point, this could be avoided. (Psst: It was cute the first couple of messages, it's long past that stage now.)

 

As it stands, all I see is you being contradictory with whatever your point is.

 

"Personally, I think Artlover wants RCA to finally come out with their Studio III."

Hardly, but abandonding last gen as soon as next gen comes out is stupid and only forces people to buy shit they don't want or switch loyality. If you have to force people to buy your product in that mannor, then something is wrong with your product since your product should be something people want.

 

There IS a reason Sony has a history of having the largest fanbase, most games, and ultimately best selling hardware, and it's NOT because they make the best games or hardware either.

 

"Should I be offended by this person?"

Quiet now, Diskette.

 

Finally, another person who can appreciate paragraphs of straightforward direct assertions.

I knew I couldn't be the only one around who loves Atlas Shrugged!!!

 

Anyway, I haven't been contradicting myself. My point all along is that Sony has never really settled into its new system, that it's still backsliding licenses to the PS2 for popular games, while everyone else has moved on to their newer systems. From the looks of things, the only PS3 games around are sequels to PS2 games and clones of said games, so the only appeal the PS3 has is for fans of the series whose next sequels are on the PS3.

However, say I'm not a fan of those games...which I'm not, to be honest. What appeal does the PS3 have for me?

I've owned a PlayStation, a PS1, and a PS2, the latter I currently own. And I've bought a number of newer games for the PS2. If they had instead been released for the PS3...I might have been tempted to save up for a PS3 just to play these fun little games...but, as it stands, I don't need to do that.

So that's $600 that Sony won't get from me. Doesn't hurt me; who does it hurt?

See, the other systems' manufacturers have their niche audiences, true...but they're expanding beyond those niches to appeal to more gamers...and thus get more money. Sony, on the other hand, seems content to rely solely on its niche audience for support of their newer system. If anything, the only other market they're reaching out to are the technophile market, what with all the non-game--related gadgetry they have stuffed into the PS3. I mean, that's all well and good, but when I never cared for the first GTA or MGS, and DVD players are selling cheap, what does ther PS3 have that I want?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

Sony's trying to survive by relying only on teh hrdkor gamerz for support--but there's more casual gamers out there than hardcore gamers.

All I'm saying is that, if Sony won't get off their collective asses and put more than teh hrdkor gamez on their precious PS3, then the next best thing is to bring out a new system that does what both the PS2 and PS3 do: appeal to casual and hardcore gamers.

Sheesh...

 

As for your third suggestion, that a systems manufacturer can somehow make their way to the top of the videogame market by not producing a system and games that people want more than any other...how else was Sony getting the money? Hiring thieves to go to malls during the holiday season and pickpocket the patrons?

Please. Sony came put on top because they had a load of games created on their system to appeal to all sorts of gamers, from sports fans to hardcore gamers to puzzle fans to even retrogamers. Sony cast the widest net and thus gained the largest market share. For some reason beyond reason itself Sony isn't doing this for their PS3, and people wonder why the system lags behind the other two in sales...

And for that second suggestion...abandoning last gen when next gen comes out is the only way to ensure the viability of next gen, pal. And one does this by creating the sort of games that last gen had, only in a way to take advantage of next gen. If graphics are already as tweaked as they can be, then something else has to be added, like maybe make it a compilation disc perhaps.

Seriously, if the system manufacturere won't come up with new games for the new system that aren't rehashes of old games on older systems but does so for the older system, what signal are they sending out? They're certainly not showing a lot of support for the newer system.

SHEESH...

 

"I still say that Artlover's just being a jerk."

Either that or a 'devil's advocate'. I'm getting a vibe for the latter from him, so let's not condemn him until we know for sure, okay, Diskette?"

"You're the cult leader!"

[Artlover]

Anyway, I haven't been contradicting myself. My point all along is that Sony has never really settled into its new system, that it's still backsliding licenses to the PS2 for popular games, while everyone else has moved on to their newer systems. From the looks of things, the only PS3 games around are sequels to PS2 games and clones of said games, so the only appeal the PS3 has is for fans of the series whose next sequels are on the PS3.

 

Sony's trying to survive by relying only on teh hrdkor gamerz for support--but there's more casual gamers out there than hardcore gamers.

All I'm saying is that, if Sony won't get off their collective asses and put more than teh hrdkor gamez on their precious PS3, then the next best thing is to bring out a new system that does what both the PS2 and PS3 do: appeal to casual and hardcore gamers.

Ok, you do have a point there. It's target audience is a niche group. Not to mention its a niche group that is already being filled by the 360.

 

But then, how much sense would it be to invest in cutsie little games to appeal to the casual market. At $600, how many casual gamers are going to flock out to buy it just to play Supra Ultra Mega Tetris 3D or Pikachu Racing Deluxe. They invested in this top of the line hardware for the purpose of making games to take advantage of it. Which means its going to end up being all serious Racers, FPS's and Fighters. Is that neccessarly a bad thing? Ehhh..... A lot of people do like those games. But again, you got the 360 which does those, as well as casual gaming, and is a hell of alot cheaper so it can appeal to the casual gaming market and take some sales away from the Wii (which was made for the casual gamer from the start with it's colorful simple/fun games and low price point).

 

As for your third suggestion, that a systems manufacturer can somehow make their way to the top of the videogame market by not producing a system and games that people want more than any other...how else was Sony getting the money?

 

And for that second suggestion...abandoning last gen when next gen comes out is the only way to ensure the viability of next gen, pal.

Again I wish to point out the PS1 and PS2. Despite the PS2 doing everything right and being the prefect replacement, a very large user base STILL didn't want it, in lieu of that, the PS2 did excelent. And you can't deny that many a PS2 game were just an upgraded re-release of PS1 titles or, depending on perspective, that many a PS1 game was just a reduced PS2 version of the same thing. Some people just don't care about next gen, some do.

 

Of course the difference is the PS2 had a larger appeal and was able to establish itself because of it's price, selection of games and realistic hardware offerings. It wasn't hard to get people to make the jump. So it had a signifigant fanbase and didn't have to resort to punishing the PS1 group.

 

Now the PS3 isn't doing so good. But then, people ARE buying the PS3. Maybe not in droves, but how much does Sony really care? Maybe they are only targeting the hardcore gamer this go around. Maybe thats why it costs so much. It's just such an odd beast, it's really hard to figure out what they are trying to do and who they are trying to appeal to exactly. Ultimatly, they are getting one big thing out of it that they wanted (and have been trying decades to do). Create a new media format standard that is universaly accepted by the world. PS3 might not be an all appealing videogame console, but it is one of the cheapest Blu-Ray players you can get right now. I betcha quite a few of the PS3 sales are just for that fact.

 

The question is this; would abandonding the PS2 help any? Not at this point because it's the only thing making them money. The PS3 is just too expencive and lacks any great appeal to most people. If they cut off the PS2, that would be the end of Sony in the videogame market because the PS3 will kill them if they continue to pursue it in the current mannor. PS3 or nothing, we'll start to see the 360 outsell the Wii. Like you've pointed out, it needs greater appeal to the casual gamer/mass market, it also needs a more realistic price point. It needs something to make it worth having beyond Blu-Ray. Of course if it had that, it wouldn't have to fear co-existing with the PS2. Needless to say, they got themselves into a pickel with this one. I'd like to call it this generations Dreamcast (more powerful then anything else, new kind of larger media, expencive and ahead of it's time, only to be shortly out done by followers when the time is right with better hardware, universal standard for media and a typical price point). Except the Dreamcast had a lot of broad appeal games, PS3 dont.

 

It's not that the Sony is competing with itself so much as it is that they really missed a lot of marks for general mass acceptance of the PS3. Till they correct that issue, nothing they do will make the thing #1.

[JimmydelaKopin]

See, Diskette? Artlover was not only playing 'devil's advocate' but he also agrees with the CoL's position!

"Fine, leader-dude.--

"Sorry, Artlover!"

"I'll tell you what Sony needs to do. They need to translate a lot more Japan-exclusive games; that's what they need to do."

Like...oh, I don't know, Serial Experiments: Lain?

"That's the one, praise Lain!"

[Seob]

It all depends on where you live. Don't see the xbox360 outselling the ps3 in japan. Even in europe ps3 sales are picking up. The only advance Microsoft does have in this point is it huge library of games. Sony really needs more titles for there ps3.

 

And the name Microsoft doesn't sell. I think if Microsoft would have been able to sell it's system under the Sega brand it would have sold much better in Europe as it does now. The name Microsoft sounds to much like blue screen errors in the ears of european customers.

I also see more tv ads for the ps3 then for the xbox360. If you want to reach casual gamers this is the place to put ads.

 

The ps3 does have some nice games that aren't available for the xbox, like Uncharted.

 

But even with this fact, i did decide to buy the ps3, because it doesn't have a failure rate as high as Microsoft, and it makes a lot less noice then the xbox360 if seen in action. Although the ps3 does make to much noise if you're watching movies.

 

Never the less at one point of another i will own a xbox360 because i think it's a nice system to ad to my collection. I think when i get one, it will get more playtime then my wii.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Seob

[Artlover]

See, Diskette? Artlover was not only playing 'devil's advocate' but he also agrees with the CoL's position!

"Fine, leader-dude.--

"Sorry, Artlover!"

"I'll tell you what Sony needs to do. They need to translate a lot more Japan-exclusive games; that's what they need to do."

Like...oh, I don't know, Serial Experiments: Lain?

"That's the one, praise Lain!"

<smack!>

 

Not exactly. I was debating your earlier comment about competing with itself. Just trying to express my opinion that it isn't exactly. PS3 is just lost in it's own plain of existance of low marketability. I guess in retrospect, you can say they are competing with themselves in as much as themselves being internal stupidty of not knowing who they built the thing for or what to do with it. Seriously, why the hell does it have 3 ethernet ports? 2 HDMI and what, 6 usb, amung others. Who IS the target audience and what do they think people are going to do with it? It boggles the mind.

[Seob]

Last time i checked my ps3 only had 1 ethernet port, and 1 HDMI. Don't know if it has 6 usb, my model does have 4 in front, could be 2 in the back. But since you can hookup more then 1 controller it can be used to charge them.

So i don't know where you're figures come from. Al i can say is that you aren't the one sony targets for.

[Artlover]

So i don't know where you're figures come from.

Wikipedia, but then they aren't exactly the most reliable source. I do know that the early prototypes had all the extra crap. But further research does in fact show the released version as being "normal" in having only one of everything it needed only one of. Admittedly, I was in a real rush and went by some mixed up memories. Ah well.

[Hyper_Eye]

So i don't know where you're figures come from.

Wikipedia, but then they aren't exactly the most reliable source. I do know that the early prototypes had all the extra crap. But further research does in fact show the released version as being "normal" in having only one of everything it needed only one of. Admittedly, I was in a real rush and went by some mixed up memories. Ah well.

 

It is accurate. You were looking at the specs of a prototype and there is even a picture. You just didn't read it. Wikipedia has been shown in studies to be more accurate on average then contemporary encyclopedias such as Encyclopedia Brittanica. This is most likely due to the huge scrutiny an open site like Wikipedia receives which includes many many professionals in the fields of the topics they edit.

 

If you want to see inaccuracy check out http://www.conservapedia.com. The front page alone has enough laughs to make my gut hurt.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Hyper_Eye

[Steril707]

I think the PS3 had a shaky start, but it seems to outsell the 360 in almost every market (maybe except NA) now by a small but increasing margin.

 

It's just a price thing. The 599 Euro/Dollar price was utterly retarded, and now that they start to get into more normal price regions, PS3s get bought.

[Atarifever]

If you want to see inaccuracy check out http://www.conservapedia.com. The front page alone has enough laughs to make my gut hurt.

Article of the Year: Atheism

 

Atheism, as defined by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, is the denial of the existence of God.

 

Discover what Wikipedia, the public school systems, and the liberal media don't want you to know about atheism.

Thanks for the laugh. I think I'm going to read that whole article so I can laugh until it hurts. I can't wait to find out what wikipedia and the public school system have been hiding from me about atheism. Why, I bet they don't even believe in God after all.

[JamesD]

I think the PS3 had a shaky start, but it seems to outsell the 360 in almost every market (maybe except NA) now by a small but increasing margin.

The 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan last month so that's not accurate.

If price cuts really do hit the 360 next month that should shake things up a bit.

[dalton4life]

So what's the deal with 360 1080p then? I would have thought that unless you have an Elite with HDMi, you'd be depending on a VGA connection for 1080p. And even then, it'd be analog and most 1080p TVs wouldn't take it.

Do any games support it natively?

 

All new 360s (elite, pro and arcade) have had HDMI towards the end of July 2007. Also the console will unscale all games to 1080p over component. It just won't upscale movies to 1080p.

[liveinabin]

Cool. Thanks . Does the Pro also have audio out or does the mulitchannel sound have to go through HDMi?

[dalton4life]

NP. If you mean digital/optical auction out then yes. There is a plug for it the on component cables plug. I use an optical cable with my surround for my 360 and PS3.

Edited August 25, 2008 by dalton4life

[Atarifever]

I think the PS3 had a shaky start, but it seems to outsell the 360 in almost every market (maybe except NA) now by a small but increasing margin.

The 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan last month so that's not accurate.

Actually they did more than outsell them. They not only outsold them something like 3:1, they also completely sold out of stock, selling more 360's than Microsoft had thought they'd need until September some time. That was in Japan!

[JamesD]

I think the PS3 had a shaky start, but it seems to outsell the 360 in almost every market (maybe except NA) now by a small but increasing margin.

The 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan last month so that's not accurate.

Actually they did more than outsell them. They not only outsold them something like 3:1, they also completely sold out of stock, selling more 360's than Microsoft had thought they'd need until September some time. That was in Japan!

What I want to know is how they keep running out of stock in one country or another. They were out of stock in the US the first month the PS3 outsold the 360 in the US which may have had something to do with it.

[Hyper_Eye]

I think the PS3 had a shaky start, but it seems to outsell the 360 in almost every market (maybe except NA) now by a small but increasing margin.

The 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan last month so that's not accurate.

Actually they did more than outsell them. They not only outsold them something like 3:1, they also completely sold out of stock, selling more 360's than Microsoft had thought they'd need until September some time. That was in Japan!

What I want to know is how they keep running out of stock in one country or another. They were out of stock in the US the first month the PS3 outsold the 360 in the US which may have had something to do with it.

 

If there was a surge in sells in Japan I wouldn't be surprised at all that they would run out of stock there. They typically have trouble in Japan and their console is generally easily available and in plentiful supply. It is good to know that they are moving units out there. Hopefully it is reflective of things to come.