New to the 520ST

[kamakazi]

Hi guys & gals! I'm new to the Atari 520ST. It's going to be used for 7800 programming. It does have one external single-sided drive, a mouse & 512k RAM. I understand that the system can be expanded to 4MB RAM. I will be looking for new software to use on this system soon so any advice or direction to getting software (cheaper the better) would be appreciated. And any do's and dont's on this computer would be welcomed as well.

 

On a side note, it will also be used for MIDI since I love to play keyboard and find the PC somewhat costly in this department (that special cable to connect it to a joystick port is just too much money).

 

I guess what I'm asking is software to support my new computer that will be of interest or use to me. Artwork programs, I need to find MADMAC, would also like to know what good games might could be found for this computer (RPGs, Shooters, Racing, Arcade-style).

 

I just would like to know what to expect out of this system and would like to make full use of it aside from programming and music creating...I like to play as well and would like to know what this computer can do.

 

I was also told that the computer can send and receive emails...anyone ever done this with a 520ST?

[Rybags]

The STe is much more RAM upgrade-friendly, but I think that the 520, depending on revision, you might be able to just solder in extra chips to bring it to 1 meg, in addition to what's already there.

I believe larger RAM upgrades for the 520/1040 usually involved replacing the existing RAM.

 

With 7800 dev (and most other older systems), doing it cross-platform would be much easier just under Windows with the added bonus that you can immediately use an emulator to test your work.

 

For eMail and general 'net stuff, I believe there is at least one Ethernet project about (cartridge?). Doing 'net stuff on STs with larger RAM size and/or faster processors is IMO perfectly feasible although I haven't dabbled in it myself.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Rybags

[tjlazer]

The 520ST is a nice system, and if you can get an internal RAM upgrade to 1MB+ it will greatly help. The other thing you will definately want to get is a Double Sided Floppy drive. That way you can format a disk to 720k on a PC and just transfer files or disk images easily. (even on Win XP with Floppy Image!)

[Sub(Function(:))]

......, I need to find MADMAC, would also like to know what good games might could be found for this computer (RPGs, Shooters, Racing, Arcade-style).

........

 

In the thread 7800 Development You posted the link to the atari ST assembler (and Development environment) used to program the 7800 et. al.

 

7800 Development information

 

Every thing needed for 7800 Development (Old skool style) is in these topics. The one thing that is missing would be the Development Board hardware. Someone could run a PCB off for the board but the cost would be high about $230-$300 per board, I have thought about it but the time needed is not something I have at the moment. (Also needed is a EPROM and a PAL/GAL Programmer)

 

As a lot of people will tell you, if you can get hold of an STe these are easier to upgrade the memory as they take PC style SIMs(30 pins). If you only have a Plain ST/STfm then try Best Electronics these still have memory upgrades for the older ST range but they are expensive($90..$100). In comparison the STe SIMs you could get for $5, if you look around.

 

There a hundreds of games for the ST, Some that spring immediately to mind are:

 

RPG

• Alternate reality (the City)
  
• Sundog, the Frozen Legacy (One of My all time favorites)
  
• Dungeon master
  
• Dungeon master Chaos Strikes back
  

 

Shooters

• Xenon 2 MegaBlast
  
• Cannon Fodder
  
• Chaos engine
  
• Blood money
  

 

Also if you want to make music try looking for Steinburg, or cubase.

 

If I go through my game collection there are lots more I could recommend, It's just all this windows programming is making my mind turn to mush

 

Try and find the "Automation" or "Pompeii Pirates" disk collections I have heard they are back on the internet somewhere

[kamakazi]

Hi everyone and thanks for the advice. The 520 is being sent to me...it does have the RF Modulator in it...and since it's being "given" to me, beggers can't be choosers you know. But yes, I understand that there are better revisions of the ST...but again, I'm stuck with what is sent to me.

 

It looks like the first thing I need to do is upgrade to the 720k floppy drive. I'm not too concerned about the hard drive at this time. I haven't had any luck with the 7800 emulators as far as programming the 7800. These emulators just don't do the 7800 justice and there's a lot of features the 7800 has that is not present in the emulators...thus is the reason I choose to program using actual Atari hardware used by Atari.

 

The DEV CARD is the only thing missing. Locating the chips is the only problem I'm having since Radio Shack obviously doesn't sell the components like they used to years ago.

 

Like I said, the computer is being given to me (It's not here yet, but on its way). So, if anyone else has used this setup before or knows something to help me out, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again to those who have responded.

[kamakazi]

I am very interested in the ST's MIDI capabilities...even the person who sent me one was highly praising the 520's ability to compose, I think he said, 64 tracks! That's amazing. My keyboard of right now is a Yamaha PSR-170. Granted, it's nothing like the PSR-510 I once owned, but a step in the right direction...at least it's a Yamaha.

 

Are there any other MIDI recording software made for the ST other than those mentioned incase I can't find those? Also...were there any simulation games made for the 520ST? By simulation, I mean like SimCity.

 

What fun factor am I looking at with say, a like new setup with the 520ST I'm getting (with the TV modulator), 360k Floppy Drive and 512K RAM? I was told that most software for the ST line until 1989 pretty much stuck with the 360k floppies and only required the 512k RAM. The only upgrade I would be interested in soon would be a hard drive (20MB), mainly for avoiding frequent use of original disks. I plan on keeping the system original for a while as its main purpose will be for programming the 7800.

 

What do's and don'ts do I need to know as far as operating this computer that would be dangerous to the computer itself or any software that I may aquire in the future?

 

Thanks again to those that have responded and to those that read this post.

[icbrkr]

I am very interested in the ST's MIDI capabilities...even the person who sent me one was highly praising the 520's ability to compose, I think he said, 64 tracks! That's amazing. My keyboard of right now is a Yamaha PSR-170. Granted, it's nothing like the PSR-510 I once owned, but a step in the right direction...at least it's a Yamaha.

 

Are there any other MIDI recording software made for the ST other than those mentioned incase I can't find those? Also...were there any simulation games made for the 520ST? By simulation, I mean like SimCity.

 

What fun factor am I looking at with say, a like new setup with the 520ST I'm getting (with the TV modulator), 360k Floppy Drive and 512K RAM? I was told that most software for the ST line until 1989 pretty much stuck with the 360k floppies and only required the 512k RAM. The only upgrade I would be interested in soon would be a hard drive (20MB), mainly for avoiding frequent use of original disks. I plan on keeping the system original for a while as its main purpose will be for programming the 7800.

 

What do's and don'ts do I need to know as far as operating this computer that would be dangerous to the computer itself or any software that I may aquire in the future?

 

Thanks again to those that have responded and to those that read this post.

 

A bunch of us NW Arkies get together a few times a year usually at my pad. I managed to get a bunch of ST software (productivity) software that I don't have a use for but can't bear to throw away you're welcome to. Also, I've got a ton of ST floppies in general so if you feel like it, during the next get together c'mon out.

[kamakazi]

PM me on where you are at and let me know when the next get together will be. If I can get that day off from work, I'll gladly join you guys! It would be nice to be able to do this like I used to do when the 386s first came out. Remember MS-DOS?

[icbrkr]

PM me on where you are at and let me know when the next get together will be. If I can get that day off from work, I'll gladly join you guys! It would be nice to be able to do this like I used to do when the 386s first came out. Remember MS-DOS?

 

We're looking at late Oct/early Nov for the next get together either in Bentonville or Ft. Smith. If you think MS-DOS is old, I'm thinking that we predate you by more than a few years

[kamakazi]

Nope...try Atari DOS for the Atari 400/800 computers. Still have and use it to this day. It remains one of my favorite OS.

 

Oh...and Bentonville would be easier for me to reach than Ft Smith...I know my way around the Fayetteville, Springdale, Rogers, Bentonville area. Used to live in Lowell.

Edited August 21, 2008 by kamakazi

[anzac]

yes, but since you asked if people remembered MS-DOS that AFAIK was released for the IBM clones, etc... then the ST TOS predates it...

 

 

Edit:

 

this is just to point out that MS-DOS is not the same as DR-DOS or IBM-DOS, etc... they were all CLI OSs, just MS-DOS ultimately got associated with all DOS releases...

Edited August 22, 2008 by anzac

[kamakazi]

Yea, I noticed. Started doing searches on anything I could find about the Atari STs (any) and learned where all the, I'll say, more known DOS systems in my area (Usually Microsoft), I now know just how much of an evil Microsoft really was, and still is.

 

I never did like Windows anyway. It seemed to be too much of a system hog, half the time, if not most, it wouldn't let you do what seemed like normal DOS routines (like some maintainance of files or whole programs). It's sad too. I did use to have DR-DOS on my first IBM Compatible which was a 386. Due to MS-DOS support though, most of the game programs I obtained in that era wouldn't run under DR-DOS...and that was an awesome operating system. I was also still in high school at the time and the programs used there, and for me to do my homework at home on my then 386 required MS-DOS.

 

I only asked if MS-DOS was remembered cause that was when I really got into computers heavily. Granted I was in high school then and, as mentioned above, had to switch to it almost forcably. Most of the people I talk to and know today only remember Windows. After what I've read, I didn't realize how stolen MS-DOS was.

 

An old friend of mine and myself included have always considered the "PC" to be nothing but an emulation machine. The reason why is cause in all honesty, almost everything in today's computers, on a hardware basis, requires some sort of device driver...which is nothing more than a software installation telling the computer how to use it. So, in my opinion, device drivers are nothing more than emulators. Past home computers like Atari, Apple and others, when a device was connected to it, you didn't need a device driver, the hardware already knew how to handle it.

 

Don't get me wrong...you really can't do much without a somewhat fast computer these days. I don't use today's computers for games anymore, I leave that for the consoles. If a new computer right out of the box can't play a majority of the games on the market WITHOUT having to buy new graphics card (some come with a great ATi or NVidia built on, but these don't seem enough for most programs) or if the OS isn't quite up to specs, then I feel like "what's the point?".

 

I still have my Apple IIc as well, along with a Tandy Color Computer 3, Timex Sinclair 1000 w/16k RAM expansion along side my Atari 800. All these computers to me, with the ST, will always be "better" than any of today's computers. Granted, the graphics will never be realistic and they shouldn't have to be, but I don't have Windows telling me no or giving me the blue-screen of death everytime either. The only Microsoft product on one of these is the CoCo3...they supplied the BASIC built-into it.

 

Getting together with other ST users would be a very cool experience, and one I would plan for. I remember doing this with my 800 and 5200 in the past. Incidentally, are there any other Atari-related get-togethers I might want to attend? I remember there used to be an Atari Convention somewhere in, I think it was Nevada?

[anzac]

Past home computers like Atari, Apple and others, when a device was connected to it, you didn't need a device driver, the hardware already knew how to handle it.

 

not to get on your nerves here, but TOS could be considered to have "drivers" built in to let the software interface with the hardware... heck, without any kind of software layer, a computer is nothing more than a brick

 

even a standard BIOS, is exactly that Basic Input Output System, a software that will tell the operating system what hardware there is and how to talk to it. which IRQs the devices are using, etc...

 

As for drivers, the Atari also needed drivers to interface with a hard drive, for example.

 

with a lot of hardware you would not "install" a driver, because when you used the software that came with the hardware, the driver was built in the software package. like sound samplers and genlock devices and scanners.

 

printers back in the old days used standard protocols and when the inkjets appeared at the end of atari life they also needed drivers to be used with the ST.

 

but yes, i do agree with you... life and computers were more simple back then...

 

and no, no blue screens of death, we had cool cherry bombs...

Edited August 22, 2008 by anzac

[kamakazi]

Cherry Bombs huh? That's funny. I know my girlfriend has a new Acer I'd like to cherry bomb. Tried to remove Vista off of it and replace it with her favorite program (Windows 2000 NT) and wouldn't you know it...Windows 2000 NT couldn't recognize those new SATA drives. Bummer. Too bad I couldn't burn Atari's GEM desktop to an eprom and slap it in there LOL.

 

Back to the ST though. I love it. By far the best computer I've seen. The MIDI ports being built in and not needing a special cable is interesting and original. No other computer I know of has ever done this. I did get lucky today though. Upon going to a local computer store who has a bad habit of collecting old stuff and after starting up a recycling program...I went there to find any double-density disks that he might have (praying more the word). He didn't have any... I asked him what all that old computer junk was sitting outside. He started explaining the recycling thing to me. Told me I could look out there and see if any of them had the ICs I was looking for to build that 7800 Devcard. Upon looking, I came across a slightly opened box. Inside it was a brand new EPSON LX-300 printer, complete with new ribbon still in factory shrinkwrap. Only the instructions were missing. In original box too! I get home with it (told me anything I wanted out of the pile I could take) and hook it up to the Atari ST. Low and behold, no drivers needed and full printout of the screen. Maybe I ought to go back and see what else I can find. There was an external hard drive caddy and an external 5.25" floppy drive (compaq)...never seen those before.

 

Anyway, the ST now has a new printer...but I need a way to download programs for my ST. I only have the 360k, single-sided drive. I've tried locating a 720k with no luck. And I'd like to avoid ebay and ordering overseas if possible. So, now I need find out if my old DOS system can be used. My idea, burn what programs I do find to a CD...place that disk in my DOS computer (still a 386 setup) and have it format to 360k. Think it would work?

[anzac]

Cherry Bombs huh? That's funny. I know my girlfriend has a new Acer I'd like to cherry bomb. Tried to remove Vista off of it and replace it with her favorite program (Windows 2000 NT) and wouldn't you know it...Windows 2000 NT couldn't recognize those new SATA drives. Bummer. Too bad I couldn't burn Atari's GEM desktop to an eprom and slap it in there LOL.

 

Just a quick one to tell you that unless the SATA controller has an IDE compatibility mode that you can setup in BIOS, you will need to use a floppy with the SATA drivers for windows installation regardless of whether you´re using 2000 or XP...

 

you can TRY to use an USB floppy with the SATA controller software, in my experience, i´ve tried to do that on my desktop computers (they don´t have drives anymore because i have an external USB drive for that ONE time in a year that i need a floppy), and even though when you boot using windows CD, the press F6 to install a third party driver, it will finish loading drivers and then tell you to insert the floppy and press ok. you do that, it reads the drivers and everything seems to be ok.

 

one more step ahead, when it just has to read the drive again, it asks to insert floppy in drive A: and press enter. and it doesn´t work from that point on with the USB drive.

 

then i have to open the computer, connect a floppy cable, use a drive, load the driver and after the first phase of windows installation, i can disconnect the drive again.

 

On a notebook, you might have better luck, since it does not have an integrated floppy controller, so it MIGHT work for you using an external USB drive.

[+Allan]

Anyway, the ST now has a new printer...but I need a way to download programs for my ST.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...ks++reading++pc

 

There is a program in the above link that will read and write ST disks on a Windows XP (and other windows I think). I'm not sure if it will read or write the single sided disks but it might. I've used it before and it works great.

 

Allan

[ppera]

...but I need a way to download programs for my ST. I only have the 360k, single-sided drive. I've tried locating a 720k with no luck. And I'd like to avoid ebay and ordering overseas if possible. So, now I need find out if my old DOS system can be used. My idea, burn what programs I do find to a CD...place that disk in my DOS computer (still a 386 setup) and have it format to 360k. Think it would work?

 

It will work. But you will have problems with larger files, not to mention beeing DJ in case of many data.

What I can recomment is to buy some (new, PC) 3.5 inch floppy drive. Prices are really low.

It will work with Atari, only some simple wiring is necessary if no jumpers on drive.

 

Trasnferring to 386 machine from Internet - how will do that ?

[kamakazi]

The 386 I have, while it is a DOS computer, does have a CD-ROM...thus can read any disc burned from another computer. All I have to do is download the ST files from the internet on my internet ONLY computer, then burn a disc to be used by the 386-AT. The 386 doesn't have Windows and therefore is easier for me to manipulate. It also doesn't have a problem formatting disks to 360k no matter what drive I have.

 

Haven't had a chance to try it yet but if it works, I'll let you know.

[kamakazi]

Ok...please tell me how to rewire an old PC 3.5" drive to work with my ST, please? I've found some ST programs for the website listed below and would like to try them out.

 

Zopher ST ROM Site

 

I'm still on the hunt for MADMAC or an ST assembler that will compile 6502 code. Also, any text editors to look for would be a big help right now.

 

Thankx again to all of you helping me out. On a side note, I couldn't download anything from LGB.

[ppera]

Ok...please tell me how to rewire an old PC 3.5" drive to work with my ST, please? I've found some ST programs for the website listed below and would like to try them out.

 

Zopher ST ROM Site

 

I'm still on the hunt for MADMAC or an ST assembler that will compile 6502 code. Also, any text editors to look for would be a big help right now.

 

Thankx again to all of you helping me out. On a side note, I couldn't download anything from LGB.

 

If no jumpers to set floppy drive as A or B (or 0/1) then simplest is to shortcut pins 10 and 12 on floppy connector.

 

See this: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14049

 

 

Here is a lot of Atari SW: http://www.planetemu.net

 

There is more site still active. For instance some ftp ones have lot of utilities: ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/atari/

[kamakazi]

Ok...have a problem. Can't seem to figure this one out.

 

Sent to me was new copy of Timework's Desktop Publisher ST. Upon doing the installation (on 4 single-sided floppies), the first error occured during the switch between the Master Disk 2 and OVERLAY disk. When it was trying to write a file, there wasn't enough disk space left for it. My solution was to use another disk when it asked for the OVERLAY disk after the STARTUP disk was finished (first time). It worked...to an extent. Now when the program is executed, it keeps giving me a "Publish.WIN" (not sure if the extension is right, couldn't make out the small text) after asking for the FONT disk several times. Does anyone on here use this program that might know what the problem is?

 

I know most will say, I need to upgrade my ST with a double-side drive or even a hard drive, both of which I can't afford right now so I'm stuck with what I have. Any ideas on how to correct the Desktop Publisher issue I'm having would be very greatful and appreciated.

[kamakazi]

I figured it out...I forgot how some of these systems and programs before hard drives became standard issue were a pain to setup and load. I had forgot to run a program on the FONT disk which in turn created the file missing. I also didn't boot up the computer with the STARTUP disk inserted, so the required GDOS OS was never installed. I know I got my workout for the day with all the disk swapping I've done LOL.

 

Oh...on a side note away from ATARI...June 19th 2009...I will be tying the knot. Had to tell someone. She's good to me and has been behind 100% on my Atari adventure...but I will have to get another ST before too long...she likes mine too much now that I found SimCity for it. LOL. Oh well, easy come easy go I guess.

 

Thanks guys for all your help. I'm sure I'll be back here with more questions eventually.