If you're bored, post here.

[jbanes]

Casual Gamer, What a hardcore gamer was in 1985. In other words Arcade games.

Nail on the head, my friend. Nail on the head. If there's any difference between arcade goers of the 80's and the Casual Gamers of today, it's that the games the casual gamers play are often a lot easier to play. Oddly, a Casual Gamer who gets addicted to gaming again is more likely to find himself moving toward the hardcore category than ending up in the core category. In result, Core and Casual are really parallel interests.

[moycon]

Nail on the head, my friend. Nail on the head.

 

Again...disagree entirely. When I was a kid lots of people played Arcade games, because video games began as arcade machines. A hardcore gamer was simply someone who dominated a game. They could play Pac-man for 3 hours on one quarter. They could play Galaga until no more enemies would appear, they would short out arcade games because the sweat would run down the joystick. It almost always was describing someone who hung out in and dominated Arcade games. It's 2009 now. There are hardly any arcade left and the ones that exist aren't busy these days. What any of that then has to do with Aunt Selma bowling in the living room or my girlfriends aunt playing "Wii Fit once every other month today...totally escapes me.

 

Trying to compare a gamer from the 80's and a gamer now is like comparing hair styles from then and now. They have drastically changed over the years and it time to let go and move on.

 

Now....

 

Casual gamer is a tag used to describe your mom playing Wii Fit or your aunt playing Word Boggle on yahoo games while she drinks her coffee in the morning.

 

Hardcore gamer is someone who posts to video game forums, visits video game web sites, buys and reads video game magazines, plays video games every or nearly everyday and would take any time at all discussing the difference between "casual" and"hardcore" gamer.

 

In the 80's if you asked if I was a hardcore gamer, I'd say "No" today the answer is "Yes" and no I haven't gotten any better. Things just change...kinda like hairstyles.

Edited January 6, 2009 by moycon

[jbanes]

Again...disagree entirely. When I was a kid lots of people played Arcade games, because video games began as arcade machines. A hardcore gamer was simply someone who dominated a game. They could play Pac-man for 3 hours on one quarter. They could play Galaga until no more enemies would appear, they would short out arcade games because the sweat would run down the joystick. It almost always was describing someone who hung out in and dominated Arcade games. It's 2009 now. There are hardly any arcade left and the ones that exist aren't busy these days. What any of that then has to do with Aunt Selma bowling in the living room or my girlfriends aunt playing "Wii Fit once every other month today...totally escapes me.

I don't disagree with you, but there are similarities in the style of game. A lot of what's described as Casual games today have many of the aspects of arcade games of yore. They're quick games, they're easy to understand, they tend to have graphics more reminiscent of classic arcade gaming, and many even play up on retro memories of arcades.

 

Where they differ is that the games often lack the same degree of challenge as the arcades. The arcades sought to make everyone into a hardcore player because hardcore players plunk more quarters. The modern Casual games often have loose fail states that soften the skill requirements. e.g. Bejeweled instead of Tetris. Zuma instead of Bust-a-Move. Fishy instead of Shark! Shark! Heck, even modern versions of Pong and Breakout are gimped by slow-moving action.

 

IMHO, this is an attempt to appeal to the older crowd who remembers video games, but are older and don't have as much of a time investment to put into games.

 

Of course, games like Wii Sports *do* appeal to a new crowd that was previously unreachable. This crowd didn't even touch the web games that started the whole "Casual" concept. There-in lies the genius of Nintendo's strategy, but it also highlights the problem with the direction gaming has taken over the last decade. As the "core" games often demonstrate, gaming has become a more exclusive club than inclusive. Unless a player happens to be in that core segment of 18-25 that game studios targeted, many consoles will leave potential players uninterested. What Nintendo has shown is that game studios were actually leaving massive amounts of money on the table in their never-ending quest to appeal to their core audience and only their core audience. Oops.

 

And that is why there's room for all three consoles. Because tastes differ. A lot.

[moycon]

And that is why there's room for all three consoles. Because tastes differ. A lot.

 

I agree with this 100%!!

[atarian63]

Nail on the head, my friend. Nail on the head.

 

Again...disagree entirely. When I was a kid lots of people played Arcade games, because video games began as arcade machines. A hardcore gamer was simply someone who dominated a game. They could play Pac-man for 3 hours on one quarter. They could play Galaga until no more enemies would appear, they would short out arcade games because the sweat would run down the joystick. It almost always was describing someone who hung out in and dominated Arcade games. It's 2009 now. There are hardly any arcade left and the ones that exist aren't busy these days. What any of that then has to do with Aunt Selma bowling in the living room or my girlfriends aunt playing "Wii Fit once every other month today...totally escapes me.

 

Trying to compare a gamer from the 80's and a gamer now is like comparing hair styles from then and now. They have drastically changed over the years and it time to let go and move on.

 

Now....

 

Casual gamer is a tag used to describe your mom playing Wii Fit or your aunt playing Word Boggle on yahoo games while she drinks her coffee in the morning.

 

Hardcore gamer is someone who posts to video game forums, visits video game web sites, buys and reads video game magazines, plays video games every or nearly everyday and would take any time at all discussing the difference between "casual" and"hardcore" gamer.

 

In the 80's if you asked if I was a hardcore gamer, I'd say "No" today the answer is "Yes" and no I haven't gotten any better. Things just change...kinda like hairstyles.

And that is what sucks, gaming has gone down the toilet since those days. Wii casual gaming refers more to a style of gaming, lots of Wiiware is of an arcade style, what you describe with Wii fit is something else,it appeals on more than one level and to a variety of ages. The local cheerleading squad that my daughter is on uses it. hardly your aunt....

 

Also a reason I collect the actual arcade machines, and Wii has replaced several of those, like arcade bowling and golf. I think it is somewhat of a return to the old days of simple and yet challenging like games used to be and I for one am happy about that.

20 buttons and a manual just to play a game takes all the fun out of gaming, not to mention story based gaming. Yuck!

 

What is old is new again with a broader reach. Arcades for me, nostalgic Wii ware for late 80's early 90's gamers and more practical modern items with a wide variety for all generations. That interface just really makes the connection for people. Maybe it's changing what "hardcore" means.

 

Also arcades haven't disappeared, they have just moved into peoples homes now.(have you seen Peter Hisschbergs?) I am sure there are several collectors here with large home arcades. I have 23 at home now and 8 more in progress at work.

Edited January 6, 2009 by atarian63

[JamesD]

The Wii isn't last gen or the current gen. It sits somewhere in between.

Just adding a remote with motion sensing does not make it next gen. You could add that to a PS1... or an Atari 800.

I've seen the Wii on a big screen TV... it sucks. With the HDTV switchover being just over 1 month away I don't see how that can't be an issue.

[Atarifever]

The Wii isn't last gen or the current gen. It sits somewhere in between.

Just adding a remote with motion sensing does not make it next gen. You could add that to a PS1... or an Atari 800.

I've seen the Wii on a big screen TV... it sucks. With the HDTV switchover being just over 1 month away I don't see how that can't be an issue.

No it doesn't sit somewhere in between. It sits in the current market releasing new games, right now, this minute. Does everyone but me have a Tardis or something? It seems like everyone gets awful confused about what year this is. Just for the sake of clarity, it's 2009, not 2006. The Wii has games out now, in 2009-- the current year for all non-time traveling people.

 

All three systems blow. All three systems are current generation.

[kisrael]

Well, on pencil & paper the Wii is part on the "Next-Generation" list of current consoles. However, the Wii is not really the next-gen system in regards to cutting edge technology!

The "withered technology" point was one of the more interesting ones made here... but I guess the question is, "do we mostly count generation by processor power, by year it was made, or by type of game?" (Funny, for the people who argue that since it's 2009, Wii is current gen... I just saw like a Hannah Montanna LCD game... is it current gen?

 

I've seen the Wii on a big screen TV... it sucks. With the HDTV switchover being just over 1 month away I don't see how that can't be an issue.

I beg to differ. I put Wii on my big HD projector, and games still look pretty frickin' good. HD? No. But still good... I don't equate "good graphics" with "high resolution", sometimes the opposite in fact, like when the polygon models were clearly made with lower rez in mind.

[kisrael]

You laugh, but I happen to have a handy-dandy chart right here!

Hardcore Gamer - Enjoy games that are difficult to nearly impossible. Find enjoyment in "totally clearing" games. High Scores are a typical measure of success. (Do the words "Curtain Fire" ring a bell? )

Core Gamer - The gamer who has typified the popular genres of games for the past 5 years. Generally this includes 3D games that are Story-Based in nature.

Casual Gamer - Someone who has not been targeted by the gaming market until recently. This generally includes short "pick up and play" games, and local multiplayer titles that focus on friendly challenges.

Obviously there's a bit of crossover in all of these, and an individual gamer may sometimes find himself fitting into multiple categories. But there you have it.

Casual gamer is a tag used to describe your mom playing Wii Fit or your aunt playing Word Boggle on yahoo games while she drinks her coffee in the morning.

 

Hardcore gamer is someone who posts to video game forums, visits video game web sites, buys and reads video game magazines, plays video games every or nearly everyday and would take any time at all discussing the difference between "casual" and"hardcore" gamer.

Both of these break downs have their points... I myself side with jbanes, but I think it's obvious there are two dimensions of "hardcoreness" - how "deeply" you like to play games, and how deeply you like to think and talk about games.

 

Like I'm involved with the Indy Game scene, a bit.. and in may ways, it's people who are getting very Hardcore about Casual gaming :-)

 

So I'd vote for (not that this is a democracy) "how deeply you play games" as "getting" the word "Hardcore", while for how much you think and talk about games... I dunno... some other term.... "Enthusiast" and "Hobbyist" and "Student", they all describe it better but they aren't great words.

[Atarifever]

(Funny, for the people who argue that since it's 2009, Wii is current gen... I just saw like a Hannah Montanna LCD game... is it current gen?

It is a current gen LCD game, but not a current gen console. Pretty simple question really. Hey, I just saw a box of cracker jacks. Is it a current generation MP3 player?

[jbanes]

(Funny, for the people who argue that since it's 2009, Wii is current gen... I just saw like a Hannah Montanna LCD game... is it current gen?

False dichotomy. In the same vein: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperscan

 

Manufacturer: Mattel

Type: Video game console

Generation : Seventh generation era

Retail availability: October 2006[citation needed]

Media: CD-ROM

Storage capacity: RFID cards

 

How dare they! They just put that... that... barely 3D... CD-ROM using... THING in the same category as the Wii, 360, and PS3!!! That's like... not even last gen! Huff huff puff huff!

 

Seriously guys. English: Do you speak it?

[MCHufnagel]

I've seen the Wii on a big screen TV... it sucks. With the HDTV switchover being just over 1 month away I don't see how that can't be an issue.

Technically it's digital transistion, not HD transistion. There are plenty of 480i sub-channels out there. And you can still find CRT SDTV's for sale with component inputs (although they are disappearing).

 

I've never seen the Wii played on a widescreen HDTV. Both my sister and brother have Wii's and play them on 27" CRT's. But from my experience with playing 16:9 480p Gamecube and PS2 games on HDTV's, the Wii shouldn't look too bad. Now play the generation before last (PSX/N64/Saturn) to see truely ugly graphics on a widescreen HDTV!

[kisrael]

(Funny, for the people who argue that since it's 2009, Wii is current gen... I just saw like a Hannah Montanna LCD game... is it current gen?

It is a current gen LCD game, but not a current gen console. Pretty simple question really. Hey, I just saw a box of cracker jacks. Is it a current generation MP3 player?

(Funny, for the people who argue that since it's 2009, Wii is current gen... I just saw like a Hannah Montanna LCD game... is it current gen?

False dichotomy. In the same vein: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperscan

How dare they! They just put that... that... barely 3D... CD-ROM using... THING in the same category as the Wii, 360, and PS3!!! That's like... not even last gen! Huff huff puff huff!

Seriously guys. English: Do you speak it?

Would it count as a current gen handheld?

Maybe not, because probably you'd argue it's "dedicated" or something

(Speaking of dedicated systems vs the Wii... it's funny seeing a game that was trying to be a $50 Wii+WiiSports clone...)

 

And yes, I was being silly with the point, but not much sillier than worrying if Wii was "truly current gen" or whatever.

[jbanes]

Would it count as a current gen handheld?

Quite possibly. Though I don't think non-cartridge handhelds are conventionally separated into the same generations as the cartridge handhelds. (i.e. The "dedicated" thing you mentioned.) There's the Wikipedia breakdown of the most recent generation here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vi...nth_generation)

 

(Speaking of dedicated systems vs the Wii... it's funny seeing a game that was trying to be a $50 Wii+WiiSports clone...)

What's shocking is how many of them there are. There's everything from the Chintendo Vii with wireless controllers, to odd "Sports Pack" rip offs that have an ugly black wire running out the back of the CloneMote.

 

And yes, I was being silly with the point, but not much sillier than worrying if Wii was "truly current gen" or whatever.

Fair 'nuff. As I said, the whole "next gen" thing is blown WAY out of proportion. Sony advertised that their machine was the most powerful of the "next gen" machines and now everyone thinks that "Next Generation" means something that it doesn't. Honest to God, it simply doesn't work the way people seem to think it does.

[Godzilla]

Wait a minute... Has this been said?

 

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

[jbanes]

Wait a minute... Has this been said?

 

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

Yup. I said it earlier in my original rant. That's my secondary pet peeve about all this. No one can figure out that the consoles have been released.

[Godzilla]

Yea, I agree. Tho I do think the term applies when the 'next-gen' systems first appear and the current gen systems are still king; like when the jag or 3do (etc,) first came out (the fact that they floundered and died not withstanding,) there was a small window there when you could own the 'next-gen' hardware whilst everyone else was still playing with their genesis' and snes' before those systems died and the new ones became 'current-gen.' But right now, there is nothing next-gen in existence (in those terms,)

[Cybergoth]

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

 

There won't be a PS4, Sony will announce their bail out from the video games market soon.

[GigaDrive]

The Wii is a current-generation console.

 

Wii no longer next-generation since it has been out since late 2006.

 

 

In terms of CPU power, graphics power, the Wii is very much a last generation console (lastgen includes Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube and Xbox) since Wii is only 1.5x faster/more powerful than the GameCube. Wii has less graphics processing power than the original Xbox. The Wii's Hollywood GPU has less total geometry & shader performance than the NV2A GPU in Xbox, and although Wii has more RAM than original Xbox, it's still a last-gen console in terms of the chipset and amount of RAM, which is nowhere near the Xbox360 and PS3.

 

In terms of control, Wii is "new-generation" since the control scheme goes way beyond the dual analog pads that have been standard for over a decade now.

 

 

As for the term 'next generation', that no longer applies to the current consoles (Xbox 360, Wii, PS3) but is now a term for the consoles that are currently in development, including the Wii HD (Wii 2), the successor to Xbox 360, and PS4.

Edited January 7, 2009 by GigaDrive

[DracIsBack]

Wii no longer next-generation since it has been out since late 2006.

 

Agree. I find this statement kind of funny actually - given that all of these consoles have been to 3 (or in case of XBox 360) 4 christmases now.

 

In terms of CPU power, graphics power, the Wii is very much a last generation console (lastgen includes Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube and Xbox) since Wii is only 1.5x faster/more powerful than the GameCube

.

 

1.5x more powerful than the GameCube is still a fair bit more powerful than Dreamcast, GameCube and PS2. The problem is that many Wii games haven't made use of what it does have. I'd argue that the above systems have all been pushed more than the Wii has to date.

 

Wii has less graphics processing power than the original Xbox

.

 

That's a bit of a simple answer to a complex question.

[MCHufnagel]

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

 

There won't be a PS4, Sony will announce their bail out from the video games market soon.

Do you really believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? I mean you are one of the biggest Wii fanboys on this site. So I'd like to see your reasoning.

 

Sony's business model uses the Playstation brand to push other products. And even though it's gaming division isn't very profitable at the moment, it has been Sony's most profitable division for many years and is the main reason HD DVD is gone. If Sony bails out of gaming, the focus of the company changes significantly.

[Atarifever]

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

 

There won't be a PS4, Sony will announce their bail out from the video games market soon.

Do you really believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? I mean you are one of the biggest Wii fanboys on this site. So I'd like to see your reasoning.

 

It's all conjecture, and I don't really believe it, but Yahoo videogames (of all things) tossed the idea around briefly.

http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/could-...he-axe-/1276921

 

Again, I don't believe that, but it's funny seeing that idea tossed around about someone besides Nintendo for a change.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Atarifever

[STGuy1040]

I dunno'... the games slated for release on WII this year seem to be pushing the WII's graphic capabilities.

 

Just a few examples:

 

(Coming in early '09)

 

Tenchu Shadow Assassin

 

Rygar: The Battle of Argus

 

MadWorld

 

 

The graphics are marginally better than some high caliber GC games but it shows that Wii is capable of really good graphics (and not that kid-style crap being seen in most WII games).

Edited January 7, 2009 by STGuy1040

[Cybergoth]

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

 

There won't be a PS4, Sony will announce their bail out from the video games market soon.

Do you really believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? I mean you are one of the biggest Wii fanboys on this site. So I'd like to see your reasoning.

 

It's all conjecture, and I don't really believe it, but Yahoo videogames (of all things) tossed the idea around briefly.

http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/could-...he-axe-/1276921

 

Again, I don't believe that, but it's funny seeing that idea tossed around about someone besides Nintendo for a change.

 

The market don't carries three consoles. It's been a miracle that M$ and Nintendo both made it through the last round, but times will be much rougher the next 2 years. One of the three will die and the PS3 is the weakest right now. Sony is still some $40 short to breaking even on the PS3 production costs and they will have to lower the price soon again or M$ is killing them in the HD market. Blue Ray also died this christmas and will probably never take off the ground. The lost PS2 compatibility will make it easier for people to switch to the X360 and there's no must-have PS3 exclusives on the horizon anymore either. There'll also only be a few games that will ever unleash the full PS3 power, since all cross-developed games must run on X360 hardware also.

[Atarifever]

None of our systems are 'next gen' as the next gen is what's coming next ;the xbox 720 (or whatever, ) the psux4, the nintendo Xii (or whatever they end up calling it.) Those are the true next-gen systems.

 

There won't be a PS4, Sony will announce their bail out from the video games market soon.

Do you really believe that, or is it just wishful thinking? I mean you are one of the biggest Wii fanboys on this site. So I'd like to see your reasoning.

 

It's all conjecture, and I don't really believe it, but Yahoo videogames (of all things) tossed the idea around briefly.

http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/could-...he-axe-/1276921

 

Again, I don't believe that, but it's funny seeing that idea tossed around about someone besides Nintendo for a change.

 

The market don't carries three consoles. It's been a miracle that M$ and Nintendo both made it through the last round, but times will be much rougher the next 2 years. One of the three will die and the PS3 is the weakest right now. Sony is still some $40 short to breaking even on the PS3 production costs and they will have to lower the price soon again or M$ is killing them in the HD market. Blue Ray also died this christmas and will probably never take off the ground. The lost PS2 compatibility will make it easier for people to switch to the X360 and there's no must-have PS3 exclusives on the horizon anymore either. There'll also only be a few games that will ever unleash the full PS3 power, since all cross-developed games must run on X360 hardware also.

You have no idea how much I want this to be true. To me, that's one down, two to go. Imagine starting fresh like after the crash.

 

Last generation was able to have three "successful" formats only because all the stars aligned. Sony was the big guy, with all kinds of systems out there, and a ton of money being made. Microsoft was a little guy, with a huge, huge, huge bankroll and patient investors and directors. Nintendo was a little guy with a big second revenue stream (handhelds), very big name recognition, and a business plan that wrung good profits from even smallish sales. This generation, Wii is the big guy, but still with the same kind of money making model and the big second revenue, making them a huge threat. Microsoft seems to actually make money this time, and has a bigger user base (and almost owns an entire niche). So yeah, I can see where you're coming from Cybergoth.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Atarifever