heading into the fall....

[godzillajoe]

Any new games I should look forward to for the holiday season?

 

seems like the homebrew scene has slowed down or just plain died.

 

lotsa "i'm working on a game" posts but nothing that seems to indicate a real release

[Thomas Jentzsch]

How about Juno First?

[black dog]

seems like the homebrew scene has slowed down or just plain died.

I was just thinking the same thing thing the other day.At one point there were so many homebrews coming out that as a gamer and collector I couldn't keep up. But in the last 6 months or so there has been basically nothing. Anyone have an explanation for this?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Some random guesses:

 

1. (temporary) burnouts

2. more advanced projects (taking longer and have bigger chance to become abandoned or delayed)

3. inappropriate responses to less good games

[Lord Thag]

3. inappropriate responses to less good games

 

Yeah, that last bit has kind of bothered me as well. I have not programmed a VCS game, but I have programmed several games on the PC. It takes an enourmous amount of effort to program a video game, and when people become rude or insulting, it makes you want to just say 'screw you' and never try again.

 

People should remember that, like any skill, programming takes time (and several games) to learn to do will. If we discourage new programmers by bagging on their first attempts, those first attempts will be their last.

 

Just my two cents.

[+Random Terrain]

3. inappropriate responses to less good games

Yeah, that last bit has kind of bothered me as well. I have not programmed a VCS game, but I have programmed several games on the PC. It takes an enourmous amount of effort to program a video game, and when people become rude or insulting, it makes you want to just say 'screw you' and never try again.

 

People should remember that, like any skill, programming takes time (and several games) to learn to do will. If we discourage new programmers by bagging on their first attempts, those first attempts will be their last.

 

Just my two cents.

I guess I missed those threads, but if you make a game that sucks and people say that it sucks, the appropriate thing to do is make it not suck or do better with your next game. If you are the kind of person who will 'take your ball and go home' because people didn't give you the cookie and pat on the head you were looking for, maybe you shouldn't be making games for other people to play. Nobody cares about the hard work that goes into making a game. It doesn't matter if you spent 20 minutes or 20 years on the game. All that matters is how fun the game is. It doesn't matter if you did it for free. All that matters is how fun the game is. It doesn't matter if you're a legend in your own mind. All that matters is how fun the game is.

 

There's a paradox when it comes to making games. Although you should do it for yourself and not depend on the approval of others for your self-esteem, you also have to think about making the player happy. Pile an abundance of 'love' on the player by doing little things to make their gaming experience more enjoyable, but do it to make yourself happy. Don't expect any love, encouragement, or approval from the players and you'll never quit because of one negative comment or a flood of them. You'll keep going because that's what you love to do.

 

 

Related quotes:

 

Even though I enjoyed the challenge of programming, ultimately the motivation was the fans, the gamers themselves. I kept asking myself, "Is that guy enjoying the game?" In those early days we got fan mail all the time.

~Bob Whitehead (adapted)

 

I had no special training at all; I am completely self taught. I don't fit the mold of a visual arts designer or a graphic designer. I just had a strong concept about what a game designer is. Someone who designs projects to make people happy. That's a game designer's purpose.

~Toru Iwatani

 

My dad delighted in me, which is an interesting realization. Anything that I would do throughout the week was kind of like when you're at a casino and you get casino chips but it's not real money until you go to the cashier's window. On Sunday, when I'd go home and do laundry, I would tell him about my week. Just to watch him delight turned those chips, if you will, into hard cash. When that was taken away from me, you realize that you have to do things for your own gratification and not for parental acceptance or whatever. You just need and want to do it for yourself.

~Mike Myers from Inside the Actors Studio (adapted)

[Lord Thag]

I disagree. The key word here is 'inappropriate' repsonse. I'm not talking about constuctive criticism, that's a good thing, and vital to ANY creative endeavor. It's one thing to say 'I found the play control to be less than responsive' or 'the game becomes very repetitive after a couple of rounds, adding some additional enemies would help'. It's quite another to say 'this game is stupid' or 'this was programmed by an idiot'.

 

I agree that in mainstream gaming, people do not care about who made what, but we're a close knit group here, and surely we can be a bit more polite, no? I don't go over to a friends house for dinner and say 'hey, this pot roast tastes like rotten ass! What kind of moron cooks it like this!?'

 

Honest criticism is good. Name calling and panning are not. AA is pretty good, overall, about being civil, but many of the other sites I frequent are not, when it comes to homevbrews. Just because the internet is full of obnoxious tools doesn't mean the rest of us need emulate them.

[rockman_x_2002]

3. inappropriate responses to less good games

 

Yeah, that last bit has kind of bothered me as well. I have not programmed a VCS game, but I have programmed several games on the PC. It takes an enourmous amount of effort to program a video game, and when people become rude or insulting, it makes you want to just say 'screw you' and never try again.

 

People should remember that, like any skill, programming takes time (and several games) to learn to do will. If we discourage new programmers by bagging on their first attempts, those first attempts will be their last.

 

Just my two cents.

 

As a programmer and someone who hopes to someday back into the game programming business, it's always been my philosophy that there's really no such thing as a "bad" game so long as the author of the game enjoys the work that they have put into it. Nobody really understands or grasps at just how difficult it is to produce a game until they've tried their hands at it for themselves or they've studied the practice at length.

 

Most of the general public figures that every game that's made should be another Halo 3 or something along those lines. What they forget is that games like that tend to have multi-million dollar budgets on the level of Hollywood summer blockbusters. They also have the programming staff to match. This is something that all of us here know first-hand, either because we are programmers or work with them (gaming business or otherwise), or we have studied programming (formally or just for a hobby).

 

When you're one guy trying to do a game, it's an amazing feat in itself just to get a complete working game that generally runs bug-free. So it's always been my thought that if you complete a programming project and it's something you're proud of, then you have a job well done in spite of what others might say. Catch is, it should be something you are proud of (generally speaking, labors of love are fun to play because the programmer tends to put a little bit of themselves into it). Criticism is a useful tool for the programmer to determine where mistakes have been made that should be corrected in later games. But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it, though.

 

Saying "Your game sucks LOLOL!" is most definitely the wrong way. Sitting down with the programmer to point out mistakes that can be corrected in later games is the proper way to do it. It's also a good idea to point out areas where the programmer got things right so they'll keep it that way.

Edited September 21, 2008 by rockman_x_2002

[+Random Terrain]

I disagree. The key word here is 'inappropriate' response. I'm not talking about constructive criticism, that's a good thing, and vital to ANY creative endeavor. It's one thing to say 'I found the play control to be less than responsive' or 'the game becomes very repetitive after a couple of rounds, adding some additional enemies would help'. It's quite another to say 'this game is stupid' or 'this was programmed by an idiot'.

Yeah, people might want to avoid saying things like "your game is so bad that it just gave me cancer," but you shouldn't let nasty comments stop you from making the game better or stop you from making your next game. People have bad days and some people catch 70s sitcom put-down fever which can be hard to shake, but no matter how unconstructive their comments are, you just keep going. Since you can't control what other people say, instead of getting offended by unconstructive criticism, you can use it to make your game better, even if it takes a couple of follow up questions to squeeze some usable info out of the pesky person.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The key word here is 'inappropriate' repsonse.

Yup!

 

But remember that it works in BOTH directions. While its absolutely not ok to simply bash games, IMO its also not ok to acclaim bad games. While this may be encouraging for the programmer of that game, it might prevent him from trying harder. And it may become disencouraging for other programmers. Those who put a lot of effort, time and talent into making great games and then getting similar responses for their work as someone else for a rushed, mediocre attempt.

 

Remember that we programmers have our pride combined with a big ego.

[roland p]

I found the feedback on my first attempts on Ballblazer very positive, so I don't see that problem, at least not on this forum. I hope I can finish the game someday...

[+Random Terrain]

I found the feedback on my first attempts on Ballblazer very positive, so I don't see that problem, at least not on this forum. I hope I can finish the game someday...

What? Ballblazer isn't finished yet? You suck!

[roland p]

I found the feedback on my first attempts on Ballblazer very positive, so I don't see that problem, at least not on this forum. I hope I can finish the game someday...

What? Ballblazer isn't finished yet? You suck!

 

Thanks, I'll fix it

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I found the feedback on my first attempts on Ballblazer very positive, so I don't see that problem, at least not on this forum.

That's because your demo is looking pretty advanced.

[roland p]

I found the feedback on my first attempts on Ballblazer very positive, so I don't see that problem, at least not on this forum.

That's because your demo is looking pretty advanced.

Thanks!

[Rom Hunter]

The key word here is 'inappropriate' repsonse.

Yup!

 

But remember that it works in BOTH directions. While its absolutely not ok to simply bash games, IMO its also not ok to acclaim bad games. While this may be encouraging for the programmer of that game, it might prevent him from trying harder. And it may become disencouraging for other programmers. Those who put a lot of effort, time and talent into making great games and then getting similar responses for their work as someone else for a rushed, mediocre attempt.

 

Remember that we programmers have our pride combined with a big ego.

I think the key is to praise any serious effort in creating something constructive, no matter what it is.

 

Acclaiming a (still) bad game is ok if the result is the (willing to grow) programmer's limit at that moment.

 

[fiddlepaddle]

I've gotta say that completing any big project in itself is worth praise, even if the results don't stack up to the competition. I've written games that were really satisfying to complete, but in the end, were not really worth playing as games. I still learned lots and lots on each one. Learning has got to be the main motivation for most homebrews. There are just too many good games available for playing. Of course, part of learning to program is to get feedback and improve the program.

 

Being too critical, in a "joke", without giving any real feedback has become kind of an epidemic today, whether it's karaoke (American Idol, etc.), or just telling a joke at the office. I think too much in TV sitcoms has made many people think one-liners are acceptable, even when they aren't.

[cd-w]

How about Juno First?

 

Thanks for the plug - I think the following games are also very close to a release:

• Lead
  
• Dungeon
  
• Cave In
  
• Incoming
  
• Gosub 2
  

It has been a bit quiet this year, but I think that's just the way it is sometimes with a group of volunteers. Personally I'm hoping that Manuel will get some inspiration and do another great arcade port.

 

Chris

Edited September 22, 2008 by cd-w

[Lord Thag]

Lead

Dungeon

Cave In

Incoming

Gosub 2

 

Yeah, some of those look fun. I tried Dungeon out a few days ago -awesome title. Finally another good 'rpgish' title for the VCS! Several of the others look good too, though I haven't played them yet. Heck, I have about eight carts I need to order right now. I'm backlogged on homebrews

[+atari2600land]

Thanks for the GoSub 2 plug. You can shoot the octopus now!