Sundog Frozen Legacy rarity?

[eggplant_casserole]

I was having a sort-out, and found a box of Atari ST games. Amongst them was this:

 

 

I noticed that the only copy on eBay stated it was very rare (which, of course, means nothing usually!) and they wanted a ridiculous price (£75). I'm sure that must be a tad optimistic! How rare is this game really, and what sort of value does it hold?

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[AlbertA]

I

How rare is this game really, and what sort of value does it hold?

 

They have right to ask what want... Game is certainly not rare, as is from well known and popular FTL.

For me value is 0, as I can DL it. Btw. game is cool.

Edited October 8, 2008 by AlbertA

[eggplant_casserole]

Sure, they have a right to ask a high amount for it - it is unlikely they'll get any bids, though!

 

Well, I found another copy go for nearly £30 after many bids, so I guess it holds some rarity. I guess there aren't many ST collectors on here, then.

 

That's your choice... personally I'd rather have the original than an illegal download. And you lose the thrill of collecting, too... it isn't all just about gameplay!

[AlbertA]

...

That's your choice... personally I'd rather have the original than an illegal download. And you lose the thrill of collecting, too... it isn't all just about gameplay!

 

Well... everybody has his own priorities. I like to collect more some HW. Illegal download ??? Tell me where I can it DL or buy legally ? (Don't count there second hand sellers). WEB is full with huge sites full with 'ROM's for old machines, even arcade consoles. It seems that nobody cares about it much. In fact, I don't play much old games. Usually it is some kind of nostalgia - I run sometimes old games just to refresh memories. To feel difference in compare to new ones.

[eggplant_casserole]

I don't care whether you can buy it new or not, it is still someone's copyright. Therefore, yes, it IS illegal.

 

Why not count second hand sellers? That's where you can get it. You get a better sense of achievement if you have to hunt down the game. There are some games that took me years to find, and I am glad I did. Downloading them would not have felt the same, plus you don't get the nice artwork, packaging etc.

[ppera]

Problem with originals is often that they work not on higher TOS versions, Mega STE, Falcon. For instance Millennium 2.2 original even can not open floppy 1 under TOS 2.06. So, many times only way to play game is to get some crack, adaptation.

Then, there is a problem of 'manual protection' - why I should every time seek some words, pictures in manual when want to start game?

 

Illegal ? Ahhh... tell me about what is really legal in this messy times. Every SW, book, music etc. what is not possible to legally buy, or is very old intellectual property should be available for free on Internet. What we have from that? There is a Guttenberg project where can DL for free thousands of old, classic books in electronic form. Nice thing. Then, we have some retro computer communities which took care about getting permissions to host old SW for free DL. For instance for Sinclair (Spectrum) machines.

 

As opposite I would consider profit hunters which want to make money with old titles, selling them at ridiculous prices, and poisoning forums, usenet with their constant advertising, what costs them practically nothing. For me, they are just spammers.

 

I have lot of originals. Most of them I did not buy, but got with Atari machines, what I bought in last couple years. Total price of STE in nice condition with some 60 games was less than 75 Euros

[fmh]

I have this game in the box somewhere if someone is interested just contact me and I'll sell it to you.

[VW]

For the ST it is definitely worth tracking down the originals if you can since it has been my experience that most downloaded/cracked games don't run right. For instance, I never did get a Dungeon Master copy that would work and I tried many different cracked versions. With simpler arcade style games, you can usually get away with it but more in depth games like RPGs that require a lot of disc changing/access seem to have issues. BTW, could someone point me in the direction of a backup utility I could use to make true images of all the originals I have since 3.5" disk reliability is not so great IMO.

[+remowilliams]

BTW, could someone point me in the direction of a backup utility I could use to make true images of all the originals I have since 3.5" disk reliability is not so great IMO.

Pasti can make images of protected originals. Currently there is no publicly available software to write the images back to a real disk, though you can use the images in an emulator such as Steem.

[+CyranoJ]

Other than that, try a Discovery Cartridge from Happy Computers - they pop up on ebay now and again.

 

The software with it is crap and looks like its from the Dark Ages (It looks even worse than the Atari8 Happy Software, hehe) but it does work..

 

Functionality over style

[fmh]

For the ST it is definitely worth tracking down the originals if you can since it has been my experience that most downloaded/cracked games don't run right. For instance, I never did get a Dungeon Master copy that would work and I tried many different cracked versions. With simpler arcade style games, you can usually get away with it but more in depth games like RPGs that require a lot of disc changing/access seem to have issues. BTW, could someone point me in the direction of a backup utility I could use to make true images of all the originals I have since 3.5" disk reliability is not so great IMO.

 

 

I have a German ST piece of software that copies protected disks. It's what I used when I bought games back in the day. I'd make copies of the originals and use the copies. It's software only which was great because you didn't need any fancy hardware. Drawbacks if I remember correctly was that it was TOS 1.0 only and was in German.

 

I should still have it somewhere. If I remember correctly it was called Pro-Rebel but I could be wrong. Been 10+ years since I used it...

[+remowilliams]

The software with it is crap and looks like its from the Dark Ages (It looks even worse than the Atari8 Happy Software, hehe) but it does work..

Good point, I keep forgetting about the Happy. Though having lots of images named Mfmbtemp is pretty annoying.

[ijor]

(Sorry for being late, and possibly the OP is not listening here anymore)

 

Sundog in fully boxed condition is rather scarce. Not a rarity, but definitely scarce. It is almost impossible to specify a value, market is too small and too volatile. But Sundog is very popular (personally, I love it) and usually gets a premium over its rarity.

 

This specific title, being an early one, has a rather simple copy protection, most software copiers (like Procopy) can easily reproduce it.

Edited December 29, 2008 by ijor

[ppera]

Yes. Sundog has very basic protection - it has only 1 file visible. Other is accessible via XBIOS sector read.

Copying of original is possible with any sector/track wise copy program. Even on PC.

[FastRobPlus]

Deleted - double post somehow...

Edited December 29, 2008 by FastRobPlus

[FastRobPlus]

I've sold 5 on ebay and via my tradelist (edit: over 2 years). Why so many? I recently got out of ST and Apple completely, and this was a sought after ST and Apple II game.

 

Value - approx. obviously as most low volume collectable software fluctuates:

Flat box Accolade Apple II - either version number: $$20-$40 (based on 2 observed sales, 2 personal sales)

FTL Atari ST flimsy box (sorry - don't know what else to call those cheap boxes): $20-$100 (based on 3 personal sales, 5 observed sales)

 

The FTL ones can sometimes be worth more because finding the game in very good box condition is hard. $100 assumes two bidders available at the time it goes up for auction. This is a game that can easily sell for $5 if offered at the wrong time.

 

I have not seen the european budget relese box you show at the top of the thread, but it is without a doubt worth less than the FTL box version. I'd say maybe US$20.

 

Still, the interesting thing about software collecting is that there is no real established, reliable price history available on the web and all it takes is one person to think to themselves: "Sundog is kinda rare, this price may be high but I'd better snag it anyway." We saw this trend a few years back with The Kristal. It jumped from a $5-$20 range to a $300-$600 range. That was surprising enough that Retro Gamer brought it up in thier auction watch: WTF? section that they used to have.

Edited December 29, 2008 by FastRobPlus