Falconizing games

[ppera]

I just visited D-Bug forums... Better will not comment what all saw there, related to my person, WEBsite, SW etc. Let their writings speak for self. Who has little brain will see what is going on...

 

Back to topic: 'Falconizing games' ? Is it really worth to play some pitty, vertical scroller, slow, boring etc. game from 1986 on Falcon? What is benefit? It is easy to get some ST, STE for decent price and playing on it. Higher speed of Falcon may be good for some games, especially 3D ones, but... It is still often slow and low framerate, if work at all.

Using expensive Falcon to play regularry ST games seems as bad idea. If nothing else, for price of Falcon can buy some new PC together with monitor and play 3D games with emulated 68000 CPU at clock up to 128MHz (Steem).

 

It is good if game works on Falcon. But spending lot of time to adapt some game - months, tenths-hunderts of hours is just waste of time. More time spent on adapting than total time what all users together will play the game? Seems as pretty bad investment...

I know, that many will not agree with me, or will say that I write this because myself can not adapt... Well, everything can be learned, practicised, experimented. Life just lasts not forever. I will rather play something in res 1600x1200 and really 'true color' . Or just start MAME

Edited October 9, 2008 by ppera

[+CyranoJ]

Aww, you took the time to come and visit our forums... How sweet. Registered any more new accounts while you were there? Or were the 10+ you already did enough for you?

Edited October 9, 2008 by CyranoJ

[Rianata]

It is good if game works on Falcon. But spending lot of time to adapt some game - months, tenths-hunderts of hours is just waste of time. More time spent on adapting than total time what all users together will play the game? Seems as pretty bad investment...

I know, that many will not agree with me, or will say that I write this because myself can not adapt... Well, everything can be learned, practicised, experimented. Life just lasts not forever. I will rather play something in res 1600x1200 and really 'true color' . Or just start MAME

 

First of all, I don't understand what you want to accomplish with this thread... but I'll respond to it anyway.

 

If there are Atarians who wish to do this and the result is o.k. why bother and just enjoy it. But seriously, if you have limited space for you Atari setup at home (or where ever) it is nice to have a Falcon setup that can run everything you throw at it being a 1986 game or one of the latest cool demos. I like some of the elder games and try running them on my main setup first (TT). If it doesn't work, I have to setup a Mega STE first...

 

Big thanks to DBug, Klapauzius and ppera for their efforts to patch all those lovely games the way they do it!

[Atariforce]

I just visited D-Bug forums... Better will not comment what all saw there, related to my person, WEBsite, SW etc. Let their writings speak for self. Who has little brain will see what is going on...

 

Back to topic: 'Falconizing games' ? Is it really worth to play some pitty, vertical scroller, slow, boring etc. game from 1986 on Falcon? What is benefit? It is easy to get some ST, STE for decent price and playing on it. Higher speed of Falcon may be good for some games, especially 3D ones, but... It is still often slow and low framerate, if work at all.

Using expensive Falcon to play regularry ST games seems as bad idea. If nothing else, for price of Falcon can buy some new PC together with monitor and play 3D games with emulated 68000 CPU at clock up to 128MHz (Steem).

 

It is good if game works on Falcon. But spending lot of time to adapt some game - months, tenths-hunderts of hours is just waste of time. More time spent on adapting than total time what all users together will play the game? Seems as pretty bad investment...

I know, that many will not agree with me, or will say that I write this because myself can not adapt... Well, everything can be learned, practicised, experimented. Life just lasts not forever. I will rather play something in res 1600x1200 and really 'true color' . Or just start MAME

 

Interresting paradox, considering you release, on a regular basis, games that you patched in order to be Falcon-compatible.

[ppera]

...

If there are Atarians who wish to do this and the result is o.k. why bother and just enjoy it. But seriously, if you have limited space for you Atari setup at home (or where ever) it is nice to have a Falcon setup that can run everything you throw at it being a 1986 game or one of the latest cool demos. I like some of the elder games and try running them on my main setup first (TT). If it doesn't work, I have to setup a Mega STE first...

Big thanks to DBug, Klapauzius and ppera for their efforts to patch all those lovely games the way they do it!

 

Point is in that, that I think that there is somewhere a limit, above which is better to abandon whole idea of making it compatible, whether with Falcon, whether with TOS 2.06 for instance. I abandoned some titles because saw that it will be too time consuming. Why spending 2 weeks on some crappy game when can do 5 good games in that time...

 

So, what I want to say is that whole idea of adapting everything (of some category) is stupid, and after all, it will be never done 100% .

So, only 3-5 people does adaptations... Better than nothing Even pretty good.

 

Atariforce wrote: "Interresting paradox, considering you release, on a regular basis, games that you patched in order to be Falcon-compatible."

It is actually not paradox. I never spent more than few hours per title for 'falconizing'. There is about 5 game in my list what work not on Falcon. It is so low count because in 90% cases whole Falcon adaptation consists of 1-3 writes in HW registers, disabling some caches, and moving PMMU table.

 

CyranoJ wrote: "Registered any more new accounts while you were there? Or were the 10+ you already did enough for you?"

Huh. So, I'm responsible that you are lazy to set some better user registration... Or just afraid that will be 2 instead 4 posts per month on your 'forum' (in fact self praising tabloid). Why should I do multiple registrations there? I can write what want with 1. But can is not same as want. Talking to wall has more sense than explaining something to D-Bug click.

[+Sauron]

First of all, I don't understand what you want to accomplish with this thread... but I'll respond to it anyway.

 

If there are Atarians who wish to do this and the result is o.k. why bother and just enjoy it. But seriously, if you have limited space for you Atari setup at home (or where ever) it is nice to have a Falcon setup that can run everything you throw at it being a 1986 game or one of the latest cool demos. I like some of the elder games and try running them on my main setup first (TT). If it doesn't work, I have to setup a Mega STE first...

 

Big thanks to DBug, Klapauzius and ppera for their efforts to patch all those lovely games the way they do it!

 

I agree with this 100%. The only ST system I have is a Falcon, and I always prefer playing games on an actual system instead of through emulation.

[+CyranoJ]

CyranoJ wrote: "Registered any more new accounts while you were there? Or were the 10+ you already did enough for you?"

Huh. So, I'm responsible that you are lazy to set some better user registration... Or just afraid that will be 2 instead 4 posts per month on your 'forum' (in fact self praising tabloid). Why should I do multiple registrations there? I can write what want with 1. But can is not same as want. Talking to wall has more sense than explaining something to D-Bug click.

 

Um.. Our forum logs IP addresses as well you know. And oh lookey here, I'm a forum admin... and ooooh lookey here again - they're all you. Would you like us to post them? After all, we don't have any issues pointing out what a complete waste of bandwidth you are Plus you've been busted for doing it on this forum as well.

 

Oh, and its clique, not click. Again, sense you make not.

 

Your game is up, matey.

[ppera]

Maybe in my town is some other Atari people too.

Even if post is with same IP adr. it means nothing. Providers give dynamic IP address in moment of connection to their users.

In most of cases. Having fixed IP adr. costs extra money.

So, at every connection I may have different IP address, or someone else may have IP what I used yesterday...

 

And yes, I know who wrote there/here, since he contacted me complaining that is unable to post here.

All this just shows how Western people has prejudices toward Eastern. 2 Atari users from same town in Hungary ?

No, it is not possible... This forum just sucks, because admin and 'moderators' are lazy and incompetent.

 

Now go, and continue your 'falconizing'... Maybe you really can not to do anything other useful in your life

[Rianata]

Ppera, Reading your first post in this thread I already saw it coming this way... take a break!

 

I still don't know what your intention for this thread was, but it could have been a nice initiative to combine the efforts of yourself together with DBug and Klapauzius to come up with a priority game fix list and share the knowledge of patching and come to a best working practice that could be shared and improved where more Atarians could join in. But hey, I'm only a dreamer and sure not a patcher!

 

Ppera, please don't go down this path again and do the things you're good at. I mean I love FloImg and I judge software after I tested it myself. After imaging more than 500 disks I think my opinion is valuable. Improve your harddisk driver which is great for 'us SatanDisk users'. Keep patching the games you think are worth patching and be proud!

 

And there is absolute no sarcasm in this post, cause that would lead to misunderstandings between native and non-native speakers.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Rianata

[ppera]

Ppera, Reading your first post in this thread I already saw it coming this way... take a break!

 

I still don't know what your intention for this thread was, but it could have been a nice initiative to combine the efforts of yourself together with DBug and Klapauzius to come up with a priority game fix list and share the knowledge of patching and come to a best working practice that could be shared and improved where more Atarians could join in. But hey, I'm only a dreamer and sure not a patcher!

 

Ppera, please don't go down this path again and do the things you're good at. I mean I love FloImg and I judge software after I tested it myself. After imaging more than 500 disks I think my opinion is valuable. Improve your harddisk driver which is great for 'us SatanDisk users'. Keep patching the games you think are worth patching and be proud!

 

And there is absolute no sarcasm in this post, cause that would lead to misunderstandings between native and non-native speakers.

 

Thanx Rianata... I really don't see sarcasm in your post. Just beeing tired from all this nonsense what is going on with CJ...

And really can not understand attitude of forum staff - they don't care for people still working for Atari folk.

 

My path is OK, I think... And when you write that continue work on FloImg and other SW it is in some kind harmony with what I wrote... Simple - we can not do everything. Our day and lifetime is limited. So, we must do some choices, selections. This is why I wrote that 'falconising' at all cost is not good idea.

 

See thread about ImgRun enhancing... abcd

 

P.S. I did some cowork with Klapauzius. He gave me some useful infos about Falcon patching when I started with it. We exchanged some ideas about adaptations, I pointed him about error in ST detection in his launchers, what he corrected fast.

STE detection is incorrect in D-Bug's launcher too. At least of those with IDE IF - just a clue...

Edited October 22, 2008 by ppera

[Grazey]

I just visited D-Bug forums... Better will not comment what all saw there, related to my person, WEBsite, SW etc. Let their writings speak for self. Who has little brain will see what is going on...

 

Inflammatory within the first sentence, "who has little brain" please don't criticise your friends.

 

Back to topic: 'Falconizing games' ? Is it really worth to play some pitty, vertical scroller, slow, boring etc. game from 1986 on Falcon? What is benefit? It is easy to get some ST, STE for decent price and playing on it. Higher speed of Falcon may be good for some games, especially 3D ones, but... It is still often slow and low framerate, if work at all.

 

Well I see you try and turn your hand at 'Falconising' games as well, so, please tell me, what is the benefit? I see you've 'fixed' mighty state-of-the-art titles like Blockout and Minigolf.... surely the main point is that people are still doing innovative things on the Atari ..... so what is the point of this post.....

 

Using expensive Falcon to play regularry ST games seems as bad idea. If nothing else, for price of Falcon can buy some new PC together with monitor and play 3D games with emulated 68000 CPU at clock up to 128MHz (Steem).

 

You miss the point here completely. Most fixes are for true Atari enthusiasts who still use Atari's! Frequent DHS.nu or #atariscne and you will see the people who use these fixes.

 

 

 

It is good if game works on Falcon. But spending lot of time to adapt some game - months, tenths-hunderts of hours is just waste of time. More time spent on adapting than total time what all users together will play the game? Seems as pretty bad investment...

 

Well it may take amateurs 'months' or tenths-hunderts of hours (so is that 1/100th of hours?? if so that's not much) But why are you saying it's a waste of time ? your comments are so negative...

 

 

I will rather play something in res 1600x1200 and really 'true color' . Or just start MAME

 

please do!

 

GRZ

[ppera]

Amateurs vs. pros ? There is no pro at all. Only some self-praising crew which thinks that only they know things, and everyone who does own way is idiot.

And worst is making competition from this... Who made more adaptations... who made harder adaptations...

I adapt what I like. Not games which consider as poor, although adapted couple such, only because it was easy.

 

I'm not against falconizing generally. Just again it at all costs. Future will prove me. You will see that many titles will never be adapted.

 

Who is real Atari enthusiast? Someone who just hates PC, Windows, Intel, and therefore uses 20 years old machines whole time... Or someone who writes SW, makes HW moddings in machines and similar... In my home and brain Atari and PC can fine coexist. Comparing 2 machines now is totally nonsense. Modern PC has for instance 2000 times faster memory transfers... Atari was superior to PCs only couple years, and 2 decades ago...

 

If you talk about what I fixed, and mention Blockout and Minigolf... Nothing adapted in Blockout. Minigolf was very easy.

It self says that those games are well programmed. And I like them, what's most important.

What I consider as really good made, and hard for programming are games like Carrier Command, F1 GP, Archipelagos etc.

They deserve lot of hours to be made compatible... Or Flight of the Intruder - was incompatible with Mega STE too, where runs even better than on Falcon... Apropo, Mega STE... It is after TT best Atari machine. It is pro. Falcon is just amateur.

Professional case, power supply, keyboard... Just to mention it...

 

So, what's the point of this thread? Maybe just exposing some opinions. Practizing English lang...

[Albert]

Um.. Our forum logs IP addresses as well you know. And oh lookey here, I'm a forum admin... and ooooh lookey here again - they're all you. Would you like us to post them? After all, we don't have any issues pointing out what a complete waste of bandwidth you are Plus you've been busted for doing it on this forum as well.

I'd appreciate it if you could send them to me.

 

Thanks,

 

..Al

[Albert]

So, at every connection I may have different IP address, or someone else may have IP what I used yesterday...

While this is true, in my experience it's extremely unlikely that two individuals will share the same dynamic IP and use that IP to post on one of thousands of forums in such a short time frame.

 

All this just shows how Western people has prejudices toward Eastern. 2 Atari users from same town in Hungary ?

No, it is not possible... This forum just sucks, because admin and 'moderators' are lazy and incompetent.

Prejudiced towards Eastern European Atari users? That's ridiculous. Prejudiced against people who create multiple accounts on a forum and use them to stir up trouble, most certainly. If you think this forum sucks, why are you posting here?

 

..Al

[ppera]

Because I have what to say. And I'm not spreading lies as some do...

There is still lot of people who deserves better than reading abusive comments from some self proclaimed judges of Atari scene. Who stires trouble here really?

Writing that my work, SW, site is crap is what I see here... Nobody reacted about that...

So, I should act as nothing happens...

And when someone from my place comes to defend me, and to point to one really abusive, insulting and btw. incompetent post on other place we have 'multiple identity' and explanations how it is unlikely.

 

Is it unlikely that D-Bug people defends CJ ? Come on...

[Fletch]

ppera,

 

I must be a bit of a moron here, but I just don't get what you are complaining about. If someone wants to spend time and effort making a game run on the Falcon why is that a problem? What is the point or complaining about what others do as a hobby? Maybe I'm just missing something.

 

By the way, I've seen some of the work you do with Atari computers and I've been very impressed. Keep it up, but stop worrying about what others do. Just enjoy the ride, life is too short to get annoyed about things out of one's control.

 

Fletch

[Atariforce]

So, at every connection I may have different IP address, or someone else may have IP what I used yesterday...

While this is true, in my experience it's extremely unlikely that two individuals will share the same dynamic IP and use that IP to post on one of thousands of forums in such a short time frame.

 

All this just shows how Western people has prejudices toward Eastern. 2 Atari users from same town in Hungary ?

No, it is not possible... This forum just sucks, because admin and 'moderators' are lazy and incompetent.

Prejudiced towards Eastern European Atari users? That's ridiculous. Prejudiced against people who create multiple accounts on a forum and use them to stir up trouble, most certainly. If you think this forum sucks, why are you posting here?

 

..Al

 

The 'east vs west' and 'moderators and admins suck' speach are just the usual tricks that Pperror troll comes up with when things don't go his way. He has done it several times on Atari-forum.

[Tempest]

All this just shows how Western people has prejudices toward Eastern. 2 Atari users from same town in Hungary ?

No, it is not possible... This forum just sucks, because admin and 'moderators' are lazy and incompetent.

Damn! He's on to us Al. Abort the mission!

 

Tempest

[+CyranoJ]

Albert,

 

I will troll trough our logfiles and get the IP addresses sent to you shortly. I don't know how many accounts he's made here but if he's done what he did on our forum you'll have a fair few to clean out.

 

Your right, two people from the same IP range from the same town, who both post about the same things and both learned to speak english from Yoda, likely not is that.

[Albert]

Albert,

 

I will troll trough our logfiles and get the IP addresses sent to you shortly. I don't know how many accounts he's made here but if he's done what he did on our forum you'll have a fair few to clean out.

 

Your right, two people from the same IP range from the same town, who both post about the same things and both learned to speak english from Yoda, likely not is that.

I already have the IP addresses, thanks. And, yes, there are more than coincidences to be seen..

 

..Al

[ppera]

I will not discuss more about IP addresses and how nonsense is (talk about) multiple registrations at D-Bug forum...

 

Obviously has not sense to post here about some complexer thing, as this thread should be. Yes, everybody has right to do what want, make hobby... Point was made by someone other . Is there right to proclaim self as pros ? Talking that some HW, SW is crap just like that...

So, folk, read further 'expert' comments from CJ... You will learn a lot

I have better things to do instead continuing this fight for truth, which is abviously something irrelevant for most.

[+CyranoJ]

I will not discuss more about IP addresses and how nonsense is (talk about) multiple registrations at D-Bug forum...

 

Obviously has not sense to post here about some complexer thing, as this thread should be. Yes, everybody has right to do what want, make hobby... Point was made by someone other . Is there right to proclaim self as pros ? Talking that some HW, SW is crap just like that...

So, folk, read further 'expert' comments from CJ... You will learn a lot

I have better things to do instead continuing this fight for truth, which is abviously something irrelevant for most.

 

I'll translate that from Yoda English to English for you...

 

"Oh dear, they're on to me. The jig is up. I'd better shuffle off and hide and pretend it never happened."

[ppera]

I thought that Yoda is very intelligent person, with little funny word order in sentences

As I said, there is a limit while is a worth to push something. I reached it here and now.

No need to hide and pretend... Our dear D-Bug will remind us on many things, as they not willing to remove abusing comments.

 

Final words: for what good this thread may serve? Maybe exactly the opposite as looks - when I say that falconizing at all cost is dumb, some people (guess who ) will do their best to show that they can and know to solve it all

[Atariforce]

Pperror, maybe you should just leave the place before embarrassing yourself even more.

[Muphex]

Actually I think what Dbug are doing is for me the single most important activity on the falcon right now. I have limited space for atari comps and as such I chose the Falcon as my main machine simply because of dbugs activity. I can have a wonderfully compact and powerful system (ct63'd) and have all my lovely old st games on the one machine. THANK YOU DBUG. I check by regularly just to see if anything has been released that day!

 

And please just drop it ppera you really aren't achieving anything for the scene with these type of comments which is surely why we are all here.