Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The picture above was a 2 minute editing in G2F. If it is possible to have this much colours in hires. Do you think they are less when optimized in colour resolution? I can only show in G2F what G2F is capable of.... yeah, well shows whats possible, insert a rainbow raster somewhere and voila its 45 colors Sorry, only 38 here omg+!!!!!1111 it looks like the amiga !!!!!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (crap deleted) Again you have posted unreal pictures, probably done with interlace. Only some are resembling the C64's graphics. But, even with those tricks it looks weird.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Here's what I want to know: What do the best Speccy and Apple II pics look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (crap deleted) Again you have posted unreal pictures, probably done with interlace. Only some are resembling the C64's graphics. But, even with those tricks it looks weird.... sure, they are virtual pictures, only existing in your mind. in reality you are looking at grey blocks, and the webpage manipulates your brain to see unreal pictures !!!!1111one one one frankly, I leave it to TMR to proove you they are real and only 1 of them is laced, he has better nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Here.. I found some Speccy art. My main impression is that the lack of color freedom and the simple pure-color palette taints everything on the Spectrum. It looks crude and reminds me of old pre-VGA PC stuff or like someone went back and colorized some black and white pictures. Edited December 5, 2008 by Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Here's what I want to know: What do the best Speccy and Apple II pics look like? the speccy stuff is very impressive for what the machine can do: argh no direct link: http://gfxzone.planet-d.net/frames.html click galleries then theme, then zx specturm on this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Re the Retro Gamer piece and the modern PC hardware analogy, this was sourced from an interview with Dr Tim McGuiness, who was Sr. Research Engineer / Asst. Director Corp. Research Engineering at Atari, and co-designed the 1200XL and the GTIA video chip. As follows: "Would it surprise you to know that we still use a great amount of Atari technology in today's PC's? Our MSDOS floppies use Atari DOS format (undated by Microsoft of course). You can still read an Atari DOS disk in a PC with a 5.25in drive. USB is the grandson of Atari Serial (the interface between Atari peripherals)." More of the interview, mainly regarding the 1200XL: "There was another major (larger) factor in the marketing failure of the 1200XL - namely Atari Corporate Marketing and the CEO Ray Kasar. The company's bread and butter was the 2600VCS, and it took 98% of the attention of the Corp Marketing. They believed they could pump those boxes out forever. This was the single biggest factor in the failure of the Home Computer product line, and the death of the company in 1983/84. This is a text book example of a marketing channel blunder. They were saturating the market, and had no real upgrade in the wings (like an XBOX360). The 5200 came to late to save them (since it was the 1200 in new clothes). So it was the fact that Atari had $400,000,000 in product in the pipeline (that ultimately was returned/lost) that caused the death of the company. The Home Computer division was a passenger on this Titanic." "Another problem of the 1200XL product was the floppy drive. I was one of the designers on the 800 floppy drives, and they were great drives (at least the 1981 models I worked on - the 1980 models used a drive mechanism that had issues of alignment). But the 1200XL drive had a serious shielding problem - I still have to use aluminum foil on mine to get it to read floppies reliably.I was the principal designer of the floppy drives and developed a huge number of peripherals: from graphics digitizer products, to a mouse, to a hard drive, to an optical drive. I was also involved with the interfacing to option disks (Pioneer LaserDisc Players). " Edited December 5, 2008 by mikeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 So do you think the Speccy stuff is impressive but the Atari art is crap? Hasn't a huge part of the last few pages been arguing about natural colors and whatnot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 sorry, but the colors are not fitting, so using your algorithm that reduces the picture to 10 colors also it looks like a cartoon, and totally unnatural because of the wrong and unfitting colors. shows nicely also how hardly even dithering is possible. which leads to the crazy style: a bunny holding a computer ? wtf? LOL. It's a fact that the C64 cannot display it. That's why you use some of my argues for turning them around. Reall, I have no problems with this, because I'm not wasting all my time with one computer. I know where the limits of the Atari end. And I know that the C64 is as limitied also, just in another direction. Not sure, where you handycap is, but it must have something to do with your brain... (crap deleted) Again you have posted unreal pictures, probably done with interlace. Only some are resembling the C64's graphics. But, even with those tricks it looks weird.... sure, they are virtual pictures, only existing in your mind. in reality you are looking at grey blocks, and the webpage manipulates your brain to see unreal pictures !!!!1111one one one frankly, I leave it to TMR to proove you they are real and only 1 of them is laced, he has better nerves. .... so why don't you leave Atariage, go fully weird and jump off a bridge? Atari showing 256 colour animations, depacked in realtime... http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=nTrUwNV6AS8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I couldn't find any Apple II art. Just crap like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 So do you think the Speccy stuff is impressive but the Atari art is crap? Hasn't a huge part of the last few pages been arguing about natural colors and whatnot? What I wrote before. Oswald is a fan of weird colours, thus he likes the C64 colours more than the A8 colours. Later he is breaking his bones over his own argues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison DeMeyer Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Oswald now clearly lost it, I mean.....Bullshitboy? Resorting to this kind of abuse are the clear signs of a loser. Especially ones who cannot even code an Atari 8 bit computer like he admitted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison DeMeyer Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Reading the thread, and all the arguing about disk drives, I was thinking, "Disk Drives? Who uses a disk drive anymore?" Oh. It's too bad you don't have something as good as SIO2PC and APE... on the other hand we can upload code into the drive and have it act as a co-cpu if we like thats why sio2pc stuff doesnt works, this kinda stuff needs ms exact emulation, and not even a dos machine can handle it without multitasking. I'm waiting for Oswald to release his new Atari game. C'mon, TMR did one. dont Here's what I want to know: What do the best Speccy and Apple II pics look like? the speccy stuff is very impressive for what the machine can do: argh no direct link: http://gfxzone.planet-d.net/frames.html click galleries then theme, then zx specturm on this site Loser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 its about time to moderate emkay and alison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What's interesting to me is how much the Atari benefits from CPU intervention. The default Atari modes aren't that great for colorful stuff, but throw some CPU behind it and the improvement can be dramatic. The 64 benefits a little less from CPU usage but the graphics are pretty capable to begin with. As far as I can tell, the Spectrum can't be helped. The limitations remain no matter what you do. This is also the case with the Apple II. These represent fundamental architecture differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 So do you think the Speccy stuff is impressive but the Atari art is crap? Hasn't a huge part of the last few pages been arguing about natural colors and whatnot? I was just turning back emkays argument on him. I like that bunny, but dont tell him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What's interesting to me is how much the Atari benefits from CPU intervention. The default Atari modes aren't that great for colorful stuff, but throw some CPU behind it and the improvement can be dramatic. The 64 benefits a little less from CPU usage but the graphics are pretty capable to begin with. As far as I can tell, the Spectrum can't be helped. The limitations remain no matter what you do. This is also the case with the Apple II. These represent fundamental architecture differences. well, some of the speccy clones can make the attribute cell size smaller, just like the c64. and the c64 can go to 320x200x16 with cpu help. yeah bitmap is already 320x200x16, but you can increase the color density a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 So do you think the Speccy stuff is impressive but the Atari art is crap? Hasn't a huge part of the last few pages been arguing about natural colors and whatnot? I was just turning back emkays argument on him. I like that bunny, but dont tell him I was gonna say... The Spectrum pictures show a lot of effort, but they also show that the hardware is very simple. The worst thing is having those squares around all of your game graphics if you try to do much color or when objects get too close. The system is best suited for text or tile-based games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 So do you think the Speccy stuff is impressive but the Atari art is crap? Hasn't a huge part of the last few pages been arguing about natural colors and whatnot? I was just turning back emkays argument on him. I like that bunny, but dont tell him I was gonna say... The Spectrum pictures show a lot of effort, but they also show that the hardware is very simple. The worst thing is having those squares around all of your game graphics if you try to do much color or when objects get too close. The system is best suited for text or tile-based games. you can do suprisingly nice stuff with the speccy tho, r-type, chase hq, the isometric games. check them on youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdw Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Nah, i post over on World Of Spectrum as well... i haven't had much time but i made a vague start at learning Z80 and it gives you a serious amount of respect for the coders. I've done Z80 stuff and I can't remember it like 6502 code. There's so many things that are only done with this register or that register or whatever. I guess it's what you're used to, but I can think in 6502. -Bry I've coded a bit on both 6502 (C64, Vic-20 and DTV) and Z80 (TI-83 and MSX). To be honest I think both architectures have their strengths. The Z80 can seem a little weird if you are used to the 6502, but it has some nice features: * More registers * Being able to use register pairs as 16-bit regs * Shadow registers, you have two complete separate set of the regs which you can swap with a clock-cheap instruction On the other hand the Z80 does not have stuff like the indexed addressing. Well, 6502 vs. Z80 that was a bit off topic, back to the main fight - A8 vs C64! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison DeMeyer Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 its about time to moderate emkay and alison. So do you think the Speccy stuff is impressive but the Atari art is crap? Hasn't a huge part of the last few pages been arguing about natural colors and whatnot? I was just turning back emkays argument on him. I like that bunny, but dont tell him I was gonna say... The Spectrum pictures show a lot of effort, but they also show that the hardware is very simple. The worst thing is having those squares around all of your game graphics if you try to do much color or when objects get too close. The system is best suited for text or tile-based games. you can do suprisingly nice stuff with the speccy tho, r-type, chase hq, the isometric games. check them on youtube Loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 you can do suprisingly nice stuff with the speccy tho, r-type, chase hq, the isometric games. check them on youtube Loser. Ok. Let's do some assumptions: -For Oswald everything seems fine, if it is done in hires and uses charmode movement. -For Oswald everything seems fine, if it uses at least 16 colours. Alike which ones... The only point I don't get here: He says "the speccy version of R-Type is surprisingly nice stuff"... Even without any SID tune. I'm worried, if this is a further stage of him of getting weird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I like the Speccy graphics. Like Apple graphics too. I'm surprised there aren't some great Beagle Brothers paint double high-res pictures online. That mode was essentially 160x192x16, with higher res options, if you wanted them and were careful about artificating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) I like the Speccy graphics. Like Apple graphics too. I'm surprised there aren't some great Beagle Brothers paint double high-res pictures online. That mode was essentially 160x192x16, with higher res options, if you wanted them and were careful about artificating. The Apple IIe came out in 1983 , the original graphics was effectively 140x192x6 ( b+w + 2 possible colours/7 pixels ) ...here's one picture... http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakespot/2417886747/ and some more here: http://toastytech.com/about/myap.html Edited December 5, 2008 by Crazyace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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