Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 You're right. But this fact seem to be a handycap on vertical scrolling games. Well, even when using a Super CPU, always h-scroller games show the "power" of the C64' chipset. Better than no A8 game showing the "power" of the A8 chipset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Fröhn said "None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now." What an absolute a**hole you are sir! Aside from the ignorant and childlike insult to the message board. The fact is that those games ARE milestones in games development, the fact you cannot percieve that is quite illuminating. Unlike "another scrolling clone of a Nintendo game" which (although I like those games personally ), did not move the art forward one step - games the C64 catalog is filled with. And what did you do? Apart from "nothing"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Fröhn said "None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now." What an absolute a**hole you are sir! Aside from the ignorant and childlike insult to the message board. The fact is that those games ARE milestones in games development, the fact you cannot percieve that is quite illuminating. Unlike "another scrolling clone of a Nintendo game" which (although I like those games personally ), did not move the art forward one step - games the C64 catalog is filled with. Let's face it, a pale imitation of Gradius, Super Mario or R-type is just that - forgotten and a side note in the history of the games world. Sure there are great games like Last Ninja, Manic Mansion that originated on the C64, and I take nothing from the platform, those games ROCKED. BUT they are no better or worse than those milestone games on the A8 - Mule, Archon, Star Raiders, ROF etc... Learn to live in peace with the diversity, not attack it! And yes I do take personal insult from your idiotic attack on people here - I am neither ignorant or unskilled, I suspect more people have played my games than have ever seen anything you have produced, and I suspect my perspective on games and platforms is broader and more informed than most - having been making them for over 20 years on all platforms (yes including Commodore ones) - please go away you ignorant little myopic person... sTeVE Conclusion: Jetboot Jack 10 Frohn 0 Atari 8-bit line wins (AGAIN). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 With a several year advantage, and the rapid state of change in computing, C64 coming up a TIE in the best, very generous, case, isn't getting it done.... And it doesn't come close to tieing. As you agreed before, marketing is a field by itself nothing to do with inferior/superior technology. The fact is C64 selling more means worse for the people in general since they are saturating the marketing with an inferior product and thus gave people less of a chance to get the best computing had to offer. Calling the c64 an 'inferior product' while labelling the Atari 'the best computing had to offer' is a pretty steep claim. (Just to be clear, you are talking about the Atari, right?). Perhaps you'll tell me you have proved this many times over in this thread? And while you might argue that "marketing is a field by itself nothing to do with inferior/superior technology", when it comes to marketing technological products, you can bet the various technological strengths of those products are on the table to some degree at least - maybe they'll be distorted by the marketing, maybe many details will go over the consumers' heads, but the consumers are sure to have some interest in what they're getting for the money, and the marketers won't ignore that. In my case, I was all set to get a vic-20 (thanks to some guy at school trying to sell me his one) until I read some guff about the c64's 'arcade-like' sprites. Mind you, I'd agree that the Atari doesn't come in a tie with the c64. It's good to see that we can agree on some things. (Warning: This is a light-hearted joke!) As long as you don't resort to name calling and take back all your name calling, I'll reply to my factual claim: "The fact is C64 selling more means worse for the people in general since they are saturating the marketing with an inferior product and thus gave people less of a chance to get the best computing had to offer." Interesting, trying to sneak in a fake win just by writing your machine is superior in the sentence. lol that's classic seriously. Inferior in what way? This thread is far from over.. In 1982...less memory, slower unmodifiable tape loaders, less sophisticate soundchip, less sophisticated sprites. ... Atarian already answered your point regarding engineering quality. It's not a fake win; I also answered you several times but you never replied (or saw the replies). I did say the same earlier in the thread that Atari is overall superior hardware after doing many hardware comparisons (pages 1..114). I don't mind repeating, but you have not shown me that we are having a two-way conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Conclusion:Jetboot Jack 10 Frohn 0 Atari 8-bit line wins (AGAIN). Conclusion: frenchmen still surrender monkey without ANY kind of skills apart from random trolling. Have you done ANYTHING valueable in your life at all? Your wife must be pretty disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) You're right. But this fact seem to be a handycap on vertical scrolling games. Well, even when using a Super CPU, always h-scroller games show the "power" of the C64' chipset. Better than no A8 game showing the "power" of the A8 chipset. Frohn sentence clearly states he knows absolutely NOTHING. Go an play with your monkey. As for my wife? How do you know I'm not a gay person? Edited April 25, 2009 by frenchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) You probably are. Gay and unskilled. Gay would be fine... Edited April 25, 2009 by Fröhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) I feel further insulted, so here are some of my games... Battlestations Pacific (TBD), Eidos Interactive Ltd. Just Cause 2 (TBD), Eidos Interactive Ltd. Batman Arkham Asylum (TBD), Eidos Interactive Ltd. Shellshock 2: Blood Trails (2009), ND GAMES Wacky Races: Crash & Dash, (2008) Eidos Interactive Ltd. Looney Tunes: Cartoon Conductor (2008), Eidos, Inc. Soul Bubbles (2008), Eidos Interactive Ltd. Kain and Lynch Deadmen (2008), Eidos, Inc. Black & White 2 (2005), Electronic Arts, Inc. Black & White 2 (Collector's Edition) (2005), Electronic Arts, Inc. The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age (2004), Electronic Arts, Inc. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003), Electronic Arts Ltda. Legacy of Kain: Defiance (AKA Soul Reaver 3) (2002), Eidos, Inc Monsters Inc. (US Edition) (2001) SCEA Who Wants to Be a Millionaire (European Edition) (2000), Eidos, Inc. Abomination: The Nemesis Project (1999), Eidos Interactive, Inc. Cutthroats: Terror on the High Seas (1999), Eidos Interactive, Inc. X-COM: Apocalypse (1997), MicroProse Ltd. Navy Strike (1995), Empire Interactive Europe Ltd. Transport Tycoon World Editor (1995), MicroProse Software, Inc. X-COM: Terror from the Deep (1995), MicroProse Software, Inc. Pizza Tycoon (1994), MicroProse Software, Inc. Gunship 2000 (1993), MicroProse Ltd. sTeVE Edited April 25, 2009 by Jetboot Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) I guess it connects via the rs232 port? EDIT: This is in response to Atariski "How does the 13-pin SIO connector connect to Atari ST (which port)? I know joystick port on ST is very slow (using ikbd interface). " - amazing how many replies show up in a refresh Edited April 25, 2009 by Crazyace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) You probably are. Gay and unskilled. Gay would be fine... Well, thank you, and it takes one to know one....unskilled that is, and we established that you are quite some posts back already. Edited April 25, 2009 by frenchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 You probably are. Gay and unskilled. Gay would be fine... Well, thank you, and it takes one to know one....unskilled that is, and we established that you are quite some posts back already. "takes one to know one" is kinda cheap. Especially when you have done NOTHING and I have done a number of things on both platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 This is starting to get ridiculous... No wait... It became that over 5000 posts ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 *sigh* this forum needs a more active moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 You probably are. Gay and unskilled. Gay would be fine... Well, thank you, and it takes one to know one....unskilled that is, and we established that you are quite some posts back already. "takes one to know one" is kinda cheap. Like a C64 perhaps? They seem to thrive on 'cheap'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Like a C64 perhaps? They seem to thrive on 'cheap'. It's not the A8 I hate, it is you I hate. Ofcourse I know that you are just trolling around but then again so I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) *sigh* this forum needs a more active moderator. I totally agree. Useless posters like Frohn and Wolfram need to be ....going. Although they are quite funny so to speak. Edited April 25, 2009 by frenchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Can someone PLEASE contact the moderator about this topic? I don't know who it is. This thread needs a 24h lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 *sigh* this forum needs a more active moderator. I totally agree. Useless posters like Frohn and Wolfram need to be ....going. Although they are quite funny so to speak. You are not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I guess it connects via the rs232 port? EDIT: This is in response to Atariski "How does the 13-pin SIO connector connect to Atari ST (which port)? I know joystick port on ST is very slow (using ikbd interface). " - amazing how many replies show up in a refresh I don't think Atari ST lets you boot from RS232. I mean if it lets you simulate disk drives, you would have to allow it to boot since some games use track read/write functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Can someone PLEASE contact the moderator about this topic? I don't know who it is. This thread needs a 24h lock. I think we have had much worse comments than this. I think a system where a person gets 3 strikes-- personal attacks/vulgarity/etc. (perhaps even Chewbacca defense/Straw-man arguments) and then he gets a 168 hour lock for replying to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I guess it connects via the rs232 port? EDIT: This is in response to Atariski "How does the 13-pin SIO connector connect to Atari ST (which port)? I know joystick port on ST is very slow (using ikbd interface). " - amazing how many replies show up in a refresh I don't think Atari ST lets you boot from RS232. I mean if it lets you simulate disk drives, you would have to allow it to boot since some games use track read/write functions. I think that the SIO2PC wasn't being used to connect the ST to a PC - but instead being used to connect the ST to an A8. ( At least that's the way I understood the original post by Heaven/TQA ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now. This was unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) And now please your kick ass A8 games... nothing? oh I'm sorry... Even it's not scrolling and visuals are not so appealing like other games I still like 'Millipede' very much on the A8s - that's a vertical shooter! I think there is no version for the C64? BTW: I still think that 'River Raid' is a great game too! Unfortunately the shore in the C64 version looks like it was contaminated by radioactive waste. IMHO retro gaming can be better justified by content rather than by presentation. So I don't think 'Slap Fight' is not a good game, but I would abstain from the background music in three channels if a technical burden forces me permanently to go down to two channels because of sound FX: That sounds annoying. Nevertheless: Thank you for your compliments! CU Irgendwer Edited April 25, 2009 by Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Also, they did NOT have a single model C64!!! What about the 64C!! HA!! NOT a single model!!! Unlike the Atari, which changed the hardware specs (CTIA to GTIA, different slots, different RAM, different joystick ports, etc), Commodore just repackaged the C64's hardware into a new shell to make the 64C look like the 128. So for the case of this discussion, they're the same computer. There's nothing wrong with upgrading if it's backward compatible. GTIA is backward compatible with CTIA (perhaps some artifacting difference). Joystick ports are the same (just 2 now instead of 4 earlier). RAM is backward compatible and one reason why games targetted for machines fit in 16K or less. All PCs are backward compatible still going back to DOS stuff from 1980s (you'll just have to boot from floppy). I think Commodore was making more machines incompatible. Seems like you missed the point, even though you explained why it can be an issue with the "16K or less" comment. If you're a developer and want your game to run on the most systems(and thus increase possible sales), then you ignore the extra features. Same thing happened with the C128, because it was backward compatible not a lot of software was written to take advantage of it's expanded abilities (extra RAM, faster CPU, 80 columns). In the case of the C64 and 64C, they're the same system - developers don't have to ignore features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) You're right. But this fact seem to be a handycap on vertical scrolling games. Well, even when using a Super CPU, always h-scroller games show the "power" of the C64' chipset. Better than no A8 game showing the "power" of the A8 chipset. There are some good vertical shooters on Atari, I remember these: HAWKQUEST Nice graphics, colored sprites as the Atari Style, different stage levels. Enemies hasn't variable movement, so maybe it's a little predecible, but not easy. THE LAST GUARDIAN I like this vertical shooter, enemies was multicolored, have different shapes, animations, and have better movement. Good background graphics screen. Visually it's very nice, it's hard to play. The idea is a mixed of vertical shooter with Uridium mission, you have to destroy the giant ship. Include digitized voice. TIGER ATTACK This game have nice graphics. Has a great feature that I didn't see on any C64 vertical shooter: the screen have horizontal scroll too, letting gain some space on screen, the playability increase with this feature, it looks great when you play. Edited April 25, 2009 by Allas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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