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Atari v Commodore

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I am basing it on unbiased observation. It's crap in comparison to Atari 800/XL/XE machines that I have. None of the Ataris have broken down for me over many years. C64, used only a few times, broke down. It's not an attack but a true statement.

 

You are right, but the samples are not representative.

 

It's not just me who has evidence this a cheaper (lower quality) machine. I also had some PETs and they never stopped working and that stuff was heavy duty and prior to C64. You have to buy some hardware to protect your 6526 (CIA) chips:

 

http://www.oldsoftware.com/6526.html

 

You can see some parts yourself-- open up the machine and there's the aluminum foil shielding, some white "glue" on some of the chips, etc. Heck, I can even repair the "Out of Memory" error on this particular C64 machine as most of the chips are non-socketed.

 

OKOK, I had only problem with your reasoning:

 

1. You told your observations

2. You conclude that C64 is crap (I mean low quality)

3. You told that your conclusion is based on unbiased observation

 

Okay, that word should be "can't" not "can". I can't even repair 'Out of Memory' error due to non-socketed chips (too much soldering/desoldering).

 

My conclusion is based on the 4 C64 machines I have (none work currently). Yeah, I can't experience all the C64s on the planet but have to rely on reports from others. If it was a logically proveable point, I wouldn't have to rely on other people's reports.

Don't worry, your conclusion is correct, I was and am a retailer and sold Atari and Commodore throughout the period. Distibutors would fly me in to CES each year.

Until the 64C all the other units were crap with cheap parts and a high failure rates. For those of you who might have gotten lucky, I can tell you having had to do the weekly RMA/Returns on them, they were awful! Not Xbox360 awful but for the time very bad. If you want to have 10 units to sell in a week you had better order 17 to 18 as that was what the failure rate was during the warranty period, over half of that was bad out of the box. Keyboards, power supplies, bad video, smoking when turned on. That is not to say Atari pre Tramiel did not have failures but when we sold 300 units per month(we had retail and mail order) of 800xl(800 before that) we might have 4-6 and most of those were loose socketed chips. 800xl had a little higher rate than the 800 but still very low. We were selling maybe 40-60 c64's per month in 83 and early 84 so that was nearly 100 units ordered to get 60 units to stay out the door. Vic disk drives were terrible too, not as bad as the machine but 4 times the rate of an 810 or 1050.C64 problems continued though improved somewhat in mid to late 85.

After Jack Tramiel introduced the XE machine failure rates went up. (Keyboards,some video issues) but never as high as the old c64 days.

To be fair the 64C was a much better machine, low failure rates, usually only the power brick but if it went usually so did the machine. It was nicely made but also too little to late as Amiga and St were coming. Everyone wanted to dump their 8-bit. We accepted trades and C64/C128 people as well as Atari people dumped like crazy and software sales dropped through the floor on both machines,late 1985 all through 86.

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I just save this one here, so next time I can show it to the one who says cheap=bad. ;)

 

post-2829-1239335943_thumb.png

 

(I know this was many days ago - this post)

 

C'mon!! Why didn't you show the Atari rainbow in 256 colors??? !!!!!!

 

c64.gif

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I just save this one here, so next time I can show it to the one who says cheap=bad. ;)

 

post-2829-1239335943_thumb.png

 

(I know this was many days ago - this post)

 

C'mon!! Why didn't you show the Atari rainbow in 256 colors??? !!!!!!

 

c64.gif

Sooo Funny!!! :D :D :D Best laugh I have had all week! Thank you!

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I just save this one here, so next time I can show it to the one who says cheap=bad. ;)

 

post-2829-1239335943_thumb.png

 

(I know this was many days ago - this post)

 

C'mon!! Why didn't you show the Atari rainbow in 256 colors??? !!!!!!

 

c64.gif

Sooo Funny!!! :D :D :D Best laugh I have had all week! Thank you!

 

Yeah!! Thumbs up for sure.

 

Love it.

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I just save this one here, so next time I can show it to the one who says cheap=bad. ;)

 

post-2829-1239335943_thumb.png

 

(I know this was many days ago - this post)

 

C'mon!! Why didn't you show the Atari rainbow in 256 colors??? !!!!!!

 

c64.gif

I'm not digging it. Seriously, what's the point when both the A8 and C64 are 25+ years old?

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Is it just me, or do I get the feeling that Wolfram is a sockpuppet of Oswald?

 

 

Nonono.... They are no sockpuppets of Oswald. They are sockpuppets of the C64.

 

It's something like a neural injector. It starts after turning on the first time a C64.

The SID music opens their brains for being manipulated...

The 16 colours rapidly moving on the screen, programmed their line of thinking....

 

Look a short time at this, but not too long.

 

http://keen.kilu.de/augenkrebs/augenkrebs.htm

 

a) if you looked too long at this, you get into beeing controlled by the C64's neural network.

b) if you control watching at it, you will hate all about the C64

 

 

 

 

:ponder:

 

 

I think I just had my first eplileptic seizure because of that link. Thanks!

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Donkey Kong on the C64 is disappointing, because I feel the system is capable of more. There were 2 versions in my torrent of thousands of games. (WHY??? Somebody give the background on this!!) The one that appeated older was terrible! The one called DK87 was much better, but not as good as A8. I know it is not the machines. The A8 version of Donkey Kong is a work of art and should be a textbook example of how to do it right.

 

The Atarisoft conversions (on both machines) are pretty pathetic, the '87 version is a UK production from Ocean licenced from Nintendo and is the closest to the arcade. If you are saying the output of a man who didn't even like Donkey Kong let alone play it enough to replicate it is 'perfect' then what you like is NOT Donkey Kong at all but some bastardisation.

 

The output of a man who did not like Donkey Kong? You mean Landon Dyer? I think he's a member here. I don't care whether or not he liked Donkey Kong. I think he did not, according to something that I've read. I do. Lots of people do. His version - whether or not he liked Donkey Kong - is EXCELLENT. It's just a shame it wasn't able to be released on the Atari 5200 (or 7800) because it kicks the shit out of every other version, including the NES.

 

Forgive me (and the rest of the world with a brain) for laughing at more of your pathetic ramblings to suggest that that person at Atarisoft is MORE of a game designing genius than Shigero Miyamoto :D The animation and gameplay is laughable, there is no fluidity to the character movements, it's like a computer listing you type in from a magazine pretendin to be Donkey Kong (on both machines).

Exactly what is pathetic about my posting? I never suggested anything about Atarisoft. I merely stated that the Donkey Kong version on C64 was not up to par with what I believed the machine was capable of. That's all. Let's try and move past the personal business, and just discuss this, please. You'll notice I am not name calling this time; even though I am tempted to, I'd like to listen to your viewpoint but it is difficult for me to do so if we are calling each other names, so can we please stop?

 

The most accurate conversion of Donkey Kong on 8bits is on the Coco 3 or Amstrad/C64 version released in 87 by Ocean UK. If you don't like those versions it's not actually Donkey Kong you like my little man ;)

I have not seen the Coco3 version, or the Amstrad version. I have just played the C64 version and - yes - the 87 version is pretty good on C64 but the A8 version is fast and successfully replicates many nuances of the arcade. That's all. Maybe the 87 Commodore version should be considered "as good" as the A8 version, then. I do not understand why you do not like the A8 version though!

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Also, they did NOT have a single model C64!!! What about the 64C!! HA!! NOT a single model!!!

Unlike the Atari, which changed the hardware specs (CTIA to GTIA, different slots, different RAM, different joystick ports, etc), Commodore just repackaged the C64's hardware into a new shell to make the 64C look like the 128. So for the case of this discussion, they're the same computer.

 

Well, good point. To quote Jim Carrey from "The Cable Guy" - "I was just tallkin' trash!!"

 

But, you know those keyboard add-on thingy would not fit on the new 64C!!! Plus, the old C64 is still better looking!

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If you figure that the 64 sits right in the middle of the timeline between the A8 and the Amiga, you would expect something either very cheap and about as capable as an 800 or something as expensive as an 800 and much more capable. I think the 64 mostly emphasized price point, but also picked up some nice features.

 

And here is the explanation for why the C64 does some things better but doesn't utterly monkeystomp the A8 in all respects. A machine cheaper than an A8 that is better in just every way would have been possible by 82 but it would have missed that pricing sweet spot. In that time frame, capability wasn't the primary Atari weakness it was price. The 600/800XL rectified that by consolidating a lot of parts into a single board that wasn't overpopulated but that came later than it should have.

 

Absolutely!! The 800XL is absolutely a copy of C64 cheapness. This is not an insult. The old A800 badly needed a cost cutting revision, with all that heavy metal and many circuit boards.

 

I think part of the innovation in the Commodore design is pointing the direction that it did need to go. The 800XL is exactly a result of that.

 

The 600XL kind of dragged the line down, though. I guess you could say the 400 did too. The fact that the Vic 20 was NOT compatible with the C64 (while the A 400/800 were compatible) sounded like a disappointment in the old days. I think it was a strength for the C64 in the later days, though. C64 game developers were not required to cater to 16K models, like the Atari game developers. I would say they did A LOT with that 16K though! Lots of the nice Atari games are 16K cartridges, or images of 16K cartridges. If they had been 48K or 64K cartridges, they might have been even better.

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If you figure that the 64 sits right in the middle of the timeline between the A8 and the Amiga, you would expect something either very cheap and about as capable as an 800 or something as expensive as an 800 and much more capable. I think the 64 mostly emphasized price point, but also picked up some nice features.

 

And here is the explanation for why the C64 does some things better but doesn't utterly monkeystomp the A8 in all respects. A machine cheaper than an A8 that is better in just every way would have been possible by 82 but it would have missed that pricing sweet spot. In that time frame, capability wasn't the primary Atari weakness it was price. The 600/800XL rectified that by consolidating a lot of parts into a single board that wasn't overpopulated but that came later than it should have.

 

Absolutely!! The 800XL is absolutely a copy of C64 cheapness. This is not an insult. The old A800 badly needed a cost cutting revision, with all that heavy metal and many circuit boards.

 

I think part of the innovation in the Commodore design is pointing the direction that it did need to go. The 800XL is exactly a result of that.

 

The 600XL kind of dragged the line down, though. I guess you could say the 400 did too. The fact that the Vic 20 was NOT compatible with the C64 (while the A 400/800 were compatible) sounded like a disappointment in the old days. I think it was a strength for the C64 in the later days, though. C64 game developers were not required to cater to 16K models, like the Atari game developers. I would say they did A LOT with that 16K though! Lots of the nice Atari games are 16K cartridges, or images of 16K cartridges. If they had been 48K or 64K cartridges, they might have been even better.

 

The XL line was a response of Atari 8bit line to reduce costs, but is not a imitation to the C64 strategy. Between 1980 -1982 the computers reduce cost of production on compact designs (technology advances let to do this). Atari XL machines was made with good quality still, I think the XE line reduce drastically the costs, so the final quality was compromised.

 

I believe Compatibility was a strong point on Atari 8bit line, so few 8bit computers keep the compatibility from their models for many years. But, as you said the low cost of C64 was enough. Without Atari compatibility, maybe XL and XE could run the same luck of C16, Cplus, C128 models.

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I still don't get the point of this discussion. And I mean that.

 

Both computers are fabulous. C64 is extremely cool, and so is the atari 8bit.

 

Those computers come from one of the finest era's: the 80's and that's (for me) one of the reasons I like them.

 

In 1984 I won an atari 800xl, and that was a start of an atari journey which hasn't end yet.

 

But when I see or hear commodore 64 in action I have the same feel: aaah that back-to-those-happy-days feeling.

 

The best part is, that both computers are still very popular, and have very active scenes. And both machines seem to be more capable doing cool things, than in the begin-years. In fact the programmers are getting better and better.

 

Sometimes I dream away and think: what if there was a time machine, and I could show people in 1984 how software from 'today' would look on atari 8bit. Like those fabulous demo's (Numen, Joyride etc.) or fantastic games (yoomp, animal party, rockman etc.) ... I think history would look much different.

 

But yes... when there was a time machine, commodore users would also travel back, and show modern software.

 

I really don't understand why commodore lovers come over to this forum, to tell 'us' atarians their system is better.

 

I wished I had space in my room, AND the money, to start a commodore 64 collection. Honest. Not especially for the system, but for having another 80's system, and to play some titles missing on atari 8bit. But I'm sure I will stick to atari 8bit anyway.

 

Marius

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Re: Won't be able to get this stuff.

 

Man, ain't that the truth? I've been saving for at least the SIO2PC deal, if not the SIO2SD. (probably the latter) Right now is a good time for 8bitters. Best enjoy it because it's probably the peak. Who knows though? That peak may go a while...

 

DEFINITELY get the SIO2PC first, and may I suggest the more-expensive ($50) USB version over the serial ($30) version.

 

My old laptop computer was essentially slow garbage, and wouldn't bring anything if I wanted to sell it. Well, it's mint condition because I don't thrash my computers - but we all know how worthless 10 year old laptops are. But it's 10 years old and doesn't have RS-232!! I had been wanting SIO2PC for a long time, but I lacked the skills to build the original Nick Kennedy version myself. I got busy going back to school and working, and didn't follow the A8 developments for some time. When I "got back into it" a couple of years ago, I was astounded and thrilled! The USB SIO2PC is the most remarkable peripheral I have ever seen for ANY computer, PERIOD. The old laptop has suddenly become a valuable member of my computer equipment again. It's pretty much an Atari peripheral now. I like being able to have 8 "drives" on the Atari - each a disk image selected with a single mouse click.

 

The "Atari Peripheral Emulator" software is incredibly intuitive and extremely easy to use. Who the hell needs 8 drives? I normally don't, but you can put 8 of your favorite disc images in there - one in each slot - and "swap" them in any way you want, without having to dig through directories, etc. What I mean is, if there are 8 disc images I really like to use a lot, I have them selected as D1 through D8 and then just swap D1 with whichever I want at the moment and it becomes the new D1. I never have to search for anything! I know this is old news for everyone here, but just want to put out the opinion on how badass SIO2PC is. It's so much cheaper than SIOSD, too. So if I had neither, I'd get SIO2PC. Now, I really like SIO2SD and I hope Loether (sp??) keeps making them. My trouble is, I just blew the wad on a bunch of Commodore stuff!!! Oh my god, I hope I don't get burned at the stake!!!

 

for me similar happened... when I got my Atari ST and found out that the Sio2PC adapter worked with a special software on ST I was back in my 8bit coding as I started to code again...on 130xe with 1mb ram and Macro Ass XE... art assets could be transfered to ST easily and the discs back to PC and public... (there you can see my 1990+ productions... all coded nativly... ;))

 

then in 97/98 I got my first win98 laptop from Toshiba and I got the APE software and boom... I still got it as a server for my coding stuff... this laptop was used even in 98ff for playing around with Sony PSX...

 

and agreed with Rybags... SIO2PC plus Ape was/is the way to go... I still have the laptop in place as an retro server for A8 (ok...less now as I have Sio2USB now from Abbuc) and use it for c64 file transfer via XE1541 cable...

 

but this brought me back into retro coding more than f.e. a HD interface (i have one IDE thing for A8 but never used it) or more RAM or Dual pokey...

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Donkey Kong on the C64 is disappointing, because I feel the system is capable of more. There were 2 versions in my torrent of thousands of games. (WHY??? Somebody give the background on this!!) The one that appeated older was terrible! The one called DK87 was much better, but not as good as A8. I know it is not the machines. The A8 version of Donkey Kong is a work of art and should be a textbook example of how to do it right.

 

The Atarisoft conversions (on both machines) are pretty pathetic, the '87 version is a UK production from Ocean licenced from Nintendo and is the closest to the arcade. If you are saying the output of a man who didn't even like Donkey Kong let alone play it enough to replicate it is 'perfect' then what you like is NOT Donkey Kong at all but some bastardisation.

 

The output of a man who did not like Donkey Kong? You mean Landon Dyer? I think he's a member here. I don't care whether or not he liked Donkey Kong. I think he did not, according to something that I've read. I do. Lots of people do. His version - whether or not he liked Donkey Kong - is EXCELLENT. It's just a shame it wasn't able to be released on the Atari 5200 (or 7800) because it kicks the shit out of every other version, including the NES.

 

Forgive me (and the rest of the world with a brain) for laughing at more of your pathetic ramblings to suggest that that person at Atarisoft is MORE of a game designing genius than Shigero Miyamoto :D The animation and gameplay is laughable, there is no fluidity to the character movements, it's like a computer listing you type in from a magazine pretendin to be Donkey Kong (on both machines).

Exactly what is pathetic about my posting? I never suggested anything about Atarisoft. I merely stated that the Donkey Kong version on C64 was not up to par with what I believed the machine was capable of. That's all. Let's try and move past the personal business, and just discuss this, please. You'll notice I am not name calling this time; even though I am tempted to, I'd like to listen to your viewpoint but it is difficult for me to do so if we are calling each other names, so can we please stop?

 

The most accurate conversion of Donkey Kong on 8bits is on the Coco 3 or Amstrad/C64 version released in 87 by Ocean UK. If you don't like those versions it's not actually Donkey Kong you like my little man ;)

I have not seen the Coco3 version, or the Amstrad version. I have just played the C64 version and - yes - the 87 version is pretty good on C64 but the A8 version is fast and successfully replicates many nuances of the arcade. That's all. Maybe the 87 Commodore version should be considered "as good" as the A8 version, then. I do not understand why you do not like the A8 version though!

 

only thing I am missing in tha A8 donkey kong is the "hand trick" to avoid stuff falling down on you when standing on top of a ladder... or was it a feature of "Crazy Kong" which was a clone???

 

(which would leed to a discussion regarding pixel accurate collision detection... ;))

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Here too - especially the sound/music in 'Slap Flight' or 'Terracresta' is very anaemic: The remaining two channels

when there is need for a sound effect are a joke and would led me in turning speakers off.

And now please your kick ass A8 games... nothing? oh I'm sorry...

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Here too - especially the sound/music in 'Slap Flight' or 'Terracresta' is very anaemic: The remaining two channels

when there is need for a sound effect are a joke and would led me in turning speakers off.

And now please your kick ass A8 games... nothing? oh I'm sorry...

 

Alternate Reality

Rescue on Fractalus

The Eidolon

Ballblazer

 

Shall I continue? I can list others... Of course though those four are also on the C64, but are poor imitations of the A8 versions... I thought we went over this already? I hate chewing my broccoli more than once...

Edited by dwhyte

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Here too - especially the sound/music in 'Slap Flight' or 'Terracresta' is very anaemic: The remaining two channels

when there is need for a sound effect are a joke and would led me in turning speakers off.

And now please your kick ass A8 games... nothing? oh I'm sorry...

 

Alternate Reality

Rescue on Fractalus

The Eidolon

Ballblazer

 

Shall I continue? I can list others...

None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now.

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Here too - especially the sound/music in 'Slap Flight' or 'Terracresta' is very anaemic: The remaining two channels

when there is need for a sound effect are a joke and would led me in turning speakers off.

And now please your kick ass A8 games... nothing? oh I'm sorry...

 

Alternate Reality

Rescue on Fractalus

The Eidolon

Ballblazer

 

Shall I continue? I can list others...

None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now.

 

Of course you don't consider them kick ass... You had to settle for a crippled versions of them on your C64 back in the day that set your bias towards them today...

Edited by dwhyte

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Here too - especially the sound/music in 'Slap Flight' or 'Terracresta' is very anaemic: The remaining two channels

when there is need for a sound effect are a joke and would led me in turning speakers off.

And now please your kick ass A8 games... nothing? oh I'm sorry...

 

Alternate Reality

Rescue on Fractalus

The Eidolon

Ballblazer

 

Shall I continue? I can list others...

None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now.

 

Hey you were a rare C64 participant in this thread who has stuck around the duration of this thread without resorting to name calling/personal attacks, but what happened all of a sudden. I respect people who can deal with the truth without attacking other people with their emotional biases.

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Re: Won't be able to get this stuff.

 

Man, ain't that the truth? I've been saving for at least the SIO2PC deal, if not the SIO2SD. (probably the latter) Right now is a good time for 8bitters. Best enjoy it because it's probably the peak. Who knows though? That peak may go a while...

 

DEFINITELY get the SIO2PC first, and may I suggest the more-expensive ($50) USB version over the serial ($30) version.

 

My old laptop computer was essentially slow garbage, and wouldn't bring anything if I wanted to sell it. Well, it's mint condition because I don't thrash my computers - but we all know how worthless 10 year old laptops are. But it's 10 years old and doesn't have RS-232!! I had been wanting SIO2PC for a long time, but I lacked the skills to build the original Nick Kennedy version myself. I got busy going back to school and working, and didn't follow the A8 developments for some time. When I "got back into it" a couple of years ago, I was astounded and thrilled! The USB SIO2PC is the most remarkable peripheral I have ever seen for ANY computer, PERIOD. The old laptop has suddenly become a valuable member of my computer equipment again. It's pretty much an Atari peripheral now. I like being able to have 8 "drives" on the Atari - each a disk image selected with a single mouse click.

 

The "Atari Peripheral Emulator" software is incredibly intuitive and extremely easy to use. Who the hell needs 8 drives? I normally don't, but you can put 8 of your favorite disc images in there - one in each slot - and "swap" them in any way you want, without having to dig through directories, etc. What I mean is, if there are 8 disc images I really like to use a lot, I have them selected as D1 through D8 and then just swap D1 with whichever I want at the moment and it becomes the new D1. I never have to search for anything! I know this is old news for everyone here, but just want to put out the opinion on how badass SIO2PC is. It's so much cheaper than SIOSD, too. So if I had neither, I'd get SIO2PC. Now, I really like SIO2SD and I hope Loether (sp??) keeps making them. My trouble is, I just blew the wad on a bunch of Commodore stuff!!! Oh my god, I hope I don't get burned at the stake!!!

 

for me similar happened... when I got my Atari ST and found out that the Sio2PC adapter worked with a special software on ST I was back in my 8bit coding as I started to code again...on 130xe with 1mb ram and Macro Ass XE... art assets could be transfered to ST easily and the discs back to PC and public... (there you can see my 1990+ productions... all coded nativly... ;))

 

then in 97/98 I got my first win98 laptop from Toshiba and I got the APE software and boom... I still got it as a server for my coding stuff... this laptop was used even in 98ff for playing around with Sony PSX...

 

and agreed with Rybags... SIO2PC plus Ape was/is the way to go... I still have the laptop in place as an retro server for A8 (ok...less now as I have Sio2USB now from Abbuc) and use it for c64 file transfer via XE1541 cable...

 

but this brought me back into retro coding more than f.e. a HD interface (i have one IDE thing for A8 but never used it) or more RAM or Dual pokey...

 

How does the 13-pin SIO connector connect to Atari ST (which port)? I know joystick port on ST is very slow (using ikbd interface).

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Of course you don't consider them kick ass... You had to settle for a crippled versions of them on your C64 back in the day that set your bias towards them today...

 

Some game even did not work on the C64 for the gameplay as the coder intended for the Atari

 

Archon - missing colours resulted in odd gameplay.

Koronis Rift - less 3D depth and missing fading mountains kills fun.

Rainbow Walker - looks far less impressive.

 

 

Also, most games use a smaller range for the gamescreen on the C64. BIG scoreboards do their part for painting over this fact.

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But it cost >additional< DMA cycles.

Better than NO additional cycles because of NO friggen sprites.

 

 

You're right. But this fact seem to be a handycap on vertical scrolling games. Well, even when using a Super CPU, always h-scroller games show the "power" of the C64' chipset.

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Fröhn said "None of that games is "kick ass" in my eyes. You guys are all blinded by 20++ years of anti-commodore propaganda. And you guys are completely unskilled crap people too. please die now."

 

What an absolute a**hole you are sir!

 

Aside from the ignorant and childlike insult to the message board. The fact is that those games ARE milestones in games development, the fact you cannot percieve that is quite illuminating. Unlike "another scrolling clone of a Nintendo game" which (although I like those games personally ;) ), did not move the art forward one step - games the C64 catalog is filled with.

 

Let's face it, a pale imitation of Gradius, Super Mario or R-type is just that - forgotten and a side note in the history of the games world. Sure there are great games like Last Ninja, Manic Mansion that originated on the C64, and I take nothing from the platform, those games ROCKED. BUT they are no better or worse than those milestone games on the A8 - Mule, Archon, Star Raiders, ROF etc...

 

Learn to live in peace with the diversity, not attack it!

And yes I do take personal insult from your idiotic attack on people here - I am neither ignorant or unskilled, I suspect more people have played my games than have ever seen anything you have produced, and I suspect my perspective on games and platforms is broader and more informed than most - having been making them for over 20 years on all platforms (yes including Commodore ones) - please go away you ignorant little myopic person...

 

sTeVE

Edited by Jetboot Jack

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Also, they did NOT have a single model C64!!! What about the 64C!! HA!! NOT a single model!!!

Unlike the Atari, which changed the hardware specs (CTIA to GTIA, different slots, different RAM, different joystick ports, etc), Commodore just repackaged the C64's hardware into a new shell to make the 64C look like the 128. So for the case of this discussion, they're the same computer.

 

There's nothing wrong with upgrading if it's backward compatible. GTIA is backward compatible with CTIA (perhaps some artifacting difference). Joystick ports are the same (just 2 now instead of 4 earlier). RAM is backward compatible and one reason why games targetted for machines fit in 16K or less. All PCs are backward compatible still going back to DOS stuff from 1980s (you'll just have to boot from floppy). I think Commodore was making more machines incompatible.

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@Fröhn

 

If you don't like it here in atari 8bit land, what are you doing here anyway?

 

It's like going to China as an american and tell them their language s*cks.

 

You don't get it.

 

Whatever you say; people here are atarians, and even when your C64 could fly, cook, speak all foreign languages, run OS X, Windows and Linux all together, emulate atari 8bit 100%, AND it looked like brigitte bardot; we STILL will stay at our atari 8bit. Just like you do with your C64, and ZX81 lovers will do with their system.

 

Just like I like my child more than any other child in the world; even when I would know by facts that other childs MIGHT be better people (and whatever 'better' would mean), nicer to their parents, smarter, better looking or whatever other stupid reason there might be.

 

There is no such thing as a better computer. It is a matter of taste and personal history.

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