Kjmann Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) I'm getting kind of tired of My team and I working hard on these games and having to put up with certain people who have nothing nice to say unless we are doing things their way. See the last few posts of this discussion for a Recent Example: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...134231&st=0 Pete and I have worked very hard on tempest, TJ has worked very hard on OutRun and we are planning more games for the beloved 8-bit. but, we don't see the reason to even bother if we are going to be criticized and ridiculed by these certain people on a regular basis. It has crossed our minds that maybe we should shut down "Atlantis Games Group", shelf the games and not release them due to this criticism. In short.... To you people who can't seem to say anything nice (and you know who you are): If you think you can do better then go start a company and make a game. Otherwise, shut the hell up. To Everyone else: You're welcome to leave your comments. If you think we should hang it up and quit then let us know and we will. If you want us to see it through, and complete this game and others to come. then by all means, say so. It's up to all of you. Edited November 24, 2008 by kjmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 First, your games are looking great and I can't wait to play them. Second, if you think no one is going to criticize your games, I think your being a little naive. There is always going to be someone who makes a negative comment about anything and everything no matter how poor or great that thing is. It's just one of those things in life. You can't let that stop you doing what you want to do. There are, of course different types of criticism. There's the good kind that actually points out the actual thing that the person doesn't like. Then there is the general criticism like 'it sucks' with no explaination. The first kind can be good because you can use it to make a better creation. I've seen a lot of great games be created on Atariage because of a lot of constructive criticism. The second kind of criticism is useless. I think you have to just say 'screw them' to people who criticize with no positive objective to help make your creation better. It's hard when someone critisizes what you create but you can't let that stop you. I know that fear has held me back in the past from creating things but you just have to ignore. It would be shame to not be able to play these games just because of a couple of people's comments. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjmann Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) First, your games are looking great and I can't wait to play them. Second, if you think no one is going to criticize your games, I think your being a little naive. The first kind can be good because you can use it to make a better creation. I've seen a lot of great games be created on Atariage because of a lot of constructive criticism. Allan Well, It's not that we thought no one would ever criticize. it's the fact that they criticize over and over again about the same thing (beating a dead horse so to speak). That's not constructive. We have no problem with constructive criticism. in Fact we encourage it. but when they keep saying the same thing over and over, it starts to get a bit old. things like: "you should use this pokey style instead of that one" and "I dont' like this sound effect and think you should change it" opinions are all around but when we respond and say that "we apprciate the opinion but we want to leave it the way it is because we like it that way and everyone else seems to like it that way too", then they should leave it alone and be done with it. not repost it several times and argue with us about it. Thank you for the complement Allan... it's nice to hear. =) Edited November 24, 2008 by kjmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fandal_ Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 OK. You want some comments... You guys are doing absolutely great job!! Your projects are awesome and I really admire your effort as I know what it takes to create something on little Atari. Unfortunately it is typical for A8 community that authors are often not getting the credit they deserve. Please, don't expect too much support or encouragement... May be you could consider another way of development of your project. I prefer this one: I always keep all my projects in secret and W.I.P. versions are distributed only to a little group of my close friends. They usually offer some worthwile improvements in my projects and I'm always really satisfied with final product as I know that it was tested on humas who have something to say... Please, don't give it up!! F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjmann Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) OK. You want some comments... You guys are doing absolutely great job!! Your projects are awesome and I really admire your effort as I know what it takes to create something on little Atari. Unfortunately it is typical for A8 community that authors are often not getting the credit they deserve. Please, don't expect too much support or encouragement... May be you could consider another way of development of your project. I prefer this one: I always keep all my projects in secret and W.I.P. versions are distributed only to a little group of my close friends. They usually offer some worthwile improvements in my projects and I'm always really satisfied with final product as I know that it was tested on humas who have something to say... Please, don't give it up!! F. That's a great Idea Fandal. If we do anymore projects we will keep then in the house until final release. It's unfortunate we have to do that though. kinda takes all the fun out of it for the people who like to see updates and the evolution of the games. Also thank you for the complement. Pete was Happy to see the support for the game. after all, he has worked the hardest on it. =) Edited November 24, 2008 by kjmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepax Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I'm getting kind of tired of My team and I working hard on these games and having to put up with certain people who have nothing nice to say unless we are doing things their way. See the last few posts of this discussion for a Recent Example: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...134231&st=0 You still have the option to ignore them. Hint: most sane people completely ignore even complete threads here. Fortunately, there are very few junk threads on AA. Pete and I have worked very hard on tempest, TJ has worked very hard on OutRun and we are planning more games for the beloved 8-bit. but, we don't see the reason to even bother if we are going to be criticized and ridiculed by these certain people on a regular basis. Please keep in mind that the "evil" has alvays been more visible than the good. These "certain people" don't even make up 1% of AtariAge members, at least I hope so...... (Albert, what do your statistics say about that, does the Invision Board have any troll counting module? ) It has crossed our minds that maybe we should shut down "Atlantis Games Group", shelf the games and not release them due to this criticism. Please don't!!! In short....To you people who can't seem to say anything nice (and you know who you are): If you think you can do better then go start a company and make a game. Otherwise, shut the hell up. The question is: do they think they CAN do better or rather COULD do better IF, blah blah blah excuse excuse blah blah?........ Or maybe they think YOU can do better, hehe. (Some people simply don't have a clue about gratitude... ) I'm already grateful for having the chance to see your demos and videos (which doesn't mean I won't be sad if you don't finish the games... ) To Everyone else: You're welcome to leave your comments. If you think we should hang it up and quit then let us know and we will. Honestly, I'm afraid you are too touchy. I think I know what I'm talking about, being too sensitive to all kinds of discouragement myself, but I'm at least able to defend my ESPERANZA. There's no point in nourishing one's depression, really. Is there really anyone on AA who will tell you to give up? Is there really anyone who even thinks so??? Do we, Atari fans, look like some Spectrum fundamentalists in disguise? If you want us to see it through, and complete this game and others to come. then by all means, say so. If it isn't clear from my previous blah: I'm saying so! It's up to all of you. Just for fun, why don't you set up a poll? Please don't get discouraged by those few emk... err entities who can either do nothing themselves or can actually do something very well but for some obscure reasons poke into something completely different. And you self-taught critics read this article first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrodegang Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Emkay again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Definitely don't give up! I think the work is great, too, and can only hope that one day I can come close to your skills as game designers. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjmann Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) well, you all have made some very valid points here. I guess there are just some people that believe that their opinion is right and we should all bow down and conform to their way of doing things. we will not stop making these games, if for no other reason than to piss off some of these negative people and make the rest of you happy with a new game. =) And Anyway, They Don't have to buy the game if they don't want to. thank you all for your show of support and your wisdom in handling this situation. =) BTW: Just for the Record. "Atlantis Games Group" is a part of my legitimate limited liability corporation (LLC) in the USA. =) Edited November 24, 2008 by kjmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Ignore people who criticize for the sake of beating their own little drums I think your projects look cool, and look forward to playing them... BUT you will never be free of criticism - it is part and parcel of creating anything worthwhile. If I had given up when the first reviews of my first games ripped up my hard work and spat it out I would not be still making games over 22 years later! You just need a thick skin and the ability to filter the idiots from the valid and useful criticism, in my experience it is usually taking on board the well considered criticism that can make all the difference to a game - I have learned to listen the hard way I'll get off my soap box now - Tempest and Outrun look very exciting, keep up the good work!!! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Keep going with your games, they look awesome. Lets see some of the neggers do something better Nintendo still have not given up on releasing new games even if some of them are Wii Music Unfortunately you will always find negativity, you just have to try and rise above it. Could be worse, you could be developing for the Jaguar, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I'll jump on this one as well. Tempest 2000 was the game that made me purchase my Jaguar. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Tempest Extreem is my most anticipated title on the 8-bit. Don't let the nay-sayer(s) get you down. Especially when said people don't release anything except short out of tune "music" clips that are painful to listen to, or relentlessly offer ideas how to make games beter (Crownland's sprite multiplexer springs to mind) but never release anything showing how much better they could do it. Stephen Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Do NOT even think about giving up due to the nay sayers or repeated critisism. Unfortunately it's a big wide world out there and a certain percentage is made up of ass holes, it is hard to understand sometimes but there are people who have nothing better to do then critisize others, soemtimes it is because they are jealous, sometimes it's an unknown personal agenda, sometimes they just like to rain on somebody's parade and online all this is increased x100 because they have nobody to answer to and can hide behind the keyboard. What you must keep in mind is those people (fair constructive criticism aside) have NOTHING to offer you and should be ignored, DO NOT punish those who are supportive of you and eagerly anticipating and appreciative of your work suffer just because of a few nay sayers who have nothing better to do, otherwise THEY WIN and that would suck................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fres Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 There certainly are some opinionated people around here. It seems to take a special kind of person to maintain an interest in this hobby, and unfortunately, this "special" nature can sometimes manifest itself as a slap in the face. The criticism may be coming from some very knowledgable people with a long history in this arena, but I'm sure that doesn't make it any less irritating. I wish discouraging things wouldn't happen to ANY XL/XE coders, but it seems to be very difficult to avoid. I hope this project continues. I'm amazed at what I've seen so far. I like being able to take a peek into the work in progress videos on you-tube, but I'll understand if that kind of communication need to go away. Good luck! I'll be looking forward to this and future projects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 (edited) There certainly are some opinionated people around here. It seems to take a special kind of person to maintain an interest in this hobby That's always a factor. And let's face it, we in this little Atari world are by nature all collectively a bit (or more) nuts. And it's also true that so much hard work in our community by so few people regularly receives so little recognition or thanks. Criticism in one form or another even in such a tiny little world as ours is going to exist. But I've said it before several times and I'll say it again - the Atlantis Games Group WIP looks fantastic and I am eagerly awaiting releases. Edited November 25, 2008 by remowilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Stuff looks great - only a few others have done something similar (Space Harrier ) I for one cant wait for a Venture port to the 8bit line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchcock4 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Hey, don't stop now. Tempest was one of my favorite games 20 years ago. I could play it for hours on end. I'm looking forward to playing it again (I only recently acquired an Atari 65XE). I need to get it setup again, etc. I'm also looking forward to anything else to the Atlantis Group comes up with. The A8 was/is a great platform for games and all things. Thanks!!!!! -Hitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Don't let the naysayers get you down. If they could do better they would; they can't so they sit on the sidelines and snipe instead. There's a large silent majority that appreciates what you're doing - and doing for love of the machine & community, not for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcv Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 At this point, it's classic online behavior: Complainers out-post Complimenters 50-to-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameEngine Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Just Another High Strung Prima Donna. Ray Kassar. I am extatic (also jeleous) about Tempest Xtreem comming to our 8-bitter. GameEngine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 There's a large silent majority that appreciates what you're doing - and doing for love of the machine & community, not for money. i think that says it all really... i'll be totally honest and put my hand up as a naysayer regarding Outrun because i still have my doubts about the techniques chosen for road generation but i said my piece, tried to keep me gob shut since then (which, as anyone who has spoken to me at length knows, is quite an effort on my part! =-) and am perfectly happy to be proven wrong. Tempest Xtreem on the other hand... well, one of my jobs is writing reviews of new 8- and 16-bit games for Retro Gamer, Oldschool Gaming, RGCD and possibly a fourth place by the end of the year so right now i am seriously looking forward to covering the thing because it looks scarily good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think it's all been said already but, PLEASE don't throw in the towel. You'll always get criticism (what are game reviews but the critics impression of a game?) but I for one cannot wait to purchase Tempest and Outrun. I think both projects are looking great and I'm really grateful for the oportunity to see pre-release footage on AA. I think one of the things which makes the A8 scene so great is the stream of new games hitting the machine. Yoomp, Hobgoblin, Tempest etc are doing wonders to put more life into our beloved machine and make this scene a great place to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Well... not being a gamer meself, I think the game looks GREAT and I'll buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+skr Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 (edited) All I could say is already said. So: Don´t stop developing. You showed Tempest Xtreem, and now I want to have it. No. I HAVE TO have it. Keep up your great work! Both thumbs up :thumbsup: Edited November 25, 2008 by skr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Tempest is one of my top three favorite games of all time and would love to have an 8-bit addition to my collection. People love to criticize for the sake of criticizing. Screw the complainers and keep on keeping on. Fletch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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