A simple question of responsibility.

[the.golden.ax]

This is a logic exercise, it has nothing to do with a real transaction.

 

Please answer this question with your opinion, only if you will also give a logical reason for your opinion.

 

So here it is:

 

If an item is sent with Delivery Confirmation, shows that it was delivered, but the buyer claims it was NOT delivered, whose problem is it?

 

AX

Edited December 4, 2008 by the.golden.ax

[Jakenut86]

This is a logic exercise, it has nothing to do with a real transaction.

 

Please answer this question with your opinion, only if you will also give a logical reason for your opinion.

 

So here it is:

 

If an item is sent with Delivery Confirmation, and shows that it was delivered to it's final destination, but the buyer claims it was not, whose problem is it?

 

AX

 

Hmm... It could be the post offices fault or the receivers fault.

 

Post office - they sent the package but it got lost and sent to the wrong place but still listed as delivered.

 

Receivers - they messed up when they gave you their address and the package went to the wrong place or they actually received the package and just want their money back so that their item is free.

[the.golden.ax]

Personally, I think the seller is the farthest from responsible for the issue. A) the seller would have proof of having had the item (if it was a pictured) B) they have proof of mailing the item (delivery confirmation, shipping postage cost, weight of package, paper trail from post office).

 

The post office has proof of having taken the package, and having delivered the package.

 

 

The buyer on the other hand has nothing but words. No proof that anything they have said is true.

 

 

AX

[Starhopper]

The USPS's.

 

The seller, by providing the tracking number, has done everything he/she could do to assure the buyer that their product not only was shipped, but that they can keep tabs on its journey. It makes no logical sense to put any responsibility upon the seller, or to suspect the seller guilty of any form of deception, as the package in question had just as much chance of making it to them as it had of getting lost.

 

The buyer obviously paid, or it wouldn't have been shipped. They've done everything expected of them.

 

USPS--"Oops... You mean that zip code was for the USA, and not Tuxcueca, Mexico?" <------This comes from personal experience

Edited December 4, 2008 by Starhopper

[Starhopper]

The buyer on the other hand has nothing but words. No proof that anything they have said is true.

 

This is true, too. The buyer could just be a pratt. . .

[Christophero Sly]

I'm sure you already know this, but often the delivery confirmation will indicate that an item has "arrived" at it's destination city, but that is different from "delivered". Arrived means it reached the local PO or distribution center. "Delivered", obviously, means it was delivered. The distinction between "arrived" and "delivered" can be a source of confusion. For example, I recently sent something that "arrived" on last Wednesday, but didn't get "delivered" until last Friday because of the Thanksgiving holiday.

 

Beyond that, I'm afraid I can't answer your question without knowing the context and details of a specific transaction.

[holygrailvideogames.com]

As a buyer I have had some items show as delivered when in fact the items were not delivered. Where I used to live sometimes the post office would scan the items as delivered before the items actually were delivered. Where I have lived for the last 4 years I have had a couple of times when an item showed delivered and I didn't have it. Both times it was delivered to the wrong address and luckily my neighbors did give me the packages both times but I didn't get the one until a couple of days later.

[shadow460]

The buyer. This kind of thing is what shipping insurance is for.

[STGuy1040]

The package becomes the responsibility of the Post Office once it leaves the seller's hands.

 

The post carrier could have left the package on the buyer’s doorstep (which the Post Office is notorious for doing) and someone walked off with it. The package could have also been delivered to a neighbor too.

[djpubba]

Y'all may call me crazy, but I believe it's the seller's responsibility. The buyer has no control over anything in this situation. Only the shipper has control. The buyer sent his money in faith that he would receive his item. It's the seller's responsibility to make sure the buyer gets what he paid for. If that does not happen, it is the seller's duty to make sure the buyer gets his item or his money back.

 

The problem is that the buyer could be lying and it's very hard to prove. But I believe that if you are a regular seller, eating the cost of these things is part of the cost of doing business on the internet.

 

I practice what I preach, too. I've sent replacements in this situation only to have the buyer end up with two. I tell them to keep the extra and give it to a friend or something and I earn a few new customers this way. Of course, I've sold tens of thousands of items over the internet so I can afford to eat a few, and they are small ticket items. I can see where low volume sellers or high ticket item sellers might not be able to do this.

Edited December 4, 2008 by djpubba

[SEgamer]

Hmm... It could be the post offices fault or the receivers fault.

 

Post office - they sent the package but it got lost and sent to the wrong place but still listed as delivered.

 

Receivers - they messed up when they gave you their address and the package went to the wrong place or they actually received the package and just want their money back so that their item is free.

 

I agree with those two factors, as well as a third tying into holygrailvideogames.com experiences which is the seller accidentally putting the wrong address on the package. This has happened to me recently (I'm assuming because the package hasn't arrived, and the seller said the package was returned to him and re-sent it. Deal was through Paypal too so it's kind of hard to get my address wrong).

Edited December 4, 2008 by SEgamer

[nathanallan]

If the seller had signature delivery confirmation, it would be totally covered. Then the USPS could investigate.

 

I see it as both the seller and buyer's responsibilities. Seller must do everything he/she can to make sure it gets to them, and the buyer must accept it and proclaim that it is received.

 

Just had a Delivery Confirmation package get to me yesterday, but was "confirmed" the day before as it got to the city. A seller was starting to get miffed at me.

 

IMHO, strictly speaking.

[the.golden.ax]

Well, this thread really isn't about an actual transaction (at least not yet) but it has happened in the past. Usually on something that is suspect to begin because it is popular and easy to pawn or unload, like a PS2, or a Xbox 360. I'm just trying to figure out what good delivery confirmation is, if it doesn't proove delivery. People already get upset when you charge actual postage (I get emails daily from eBayers "Your shipping seems high" even though it is calculated by actual weight before packing materials, with no handling. Real actual postal cost.) imagine adding $2.20 to every order for signature confirmation, that would be $7 per 1 pound package. My mailman won't leave a d/c package for me unless I open the door and take it from him.

 

AX

[nathanallan]

I get those complaints, too, but I have had to do just this. I just explain it in my description and emails. If it's too high the buyer is free to pass. I blame the world, it's too easy to sham your way into free stuff (like UPS, not the post office).

[djpubba]

Sometimes it's easy to tell if a buyer is a liar and you can treat them accordingly. Getting them on the phone is a good way to gauge if they are b.s.ing you or not. A lot of times even if I can't tell if they're lying, I'll go by their attitude. If they're snarky jerks I'm not going to go out of my way for them, but if they're nice and polite I'll usually give 'em freebies.

[Almost Rice]

Y'all may call me crazy, but I believe it's the seller's responsibility. The buyer has no control over anything in this situation. Only the shipper has control. The buyer sent his money in faith that he would receive his item. It's the seller's responsibility to make sure the buyer gets what he paid for. If that does not happen, it is the seller's duty to make sure the buyer gets his item or his money back.

 

The problem is that the buyer could be lying and it's very hard to prove. But I believe that if you are a regular seller, eating the cost of these things is part of the cost of doing business on the internet.

 

This is how selling on Amazon is. Seller is responsible for everything I have had a customer know this and DC was used. She claimed she never received it. Amazon did not make me pay for it, but they usually do. I believe in this method only if the customer does not know. If they know, you start getting scammers. DC is the cheapest way to see if the package gets there. If I put signature confirmation, it would cost nearly $2 more.

 

My items have a low probability of being scammed since they are not electronics. I have 1 maybe 2 suspected scams in out of 3000 packages. I have 3 packages lost. I just reship the items since we manufacture them. On resent packages, I basically lose money. This is better than paying for insurance at $1 a package that is $3000. I only had to resend 3 packages at a cost of 3x$10= $30 total. So insurance is not the answer for me.

On highly scammed items like video games and electronics, I would definitely use signature confirmation and insurance.

[Crazy Climber]

I didn't read the entire thread so I apologize if my answer has been said but I have had this happen, more then once.

Of course no need to worry about a pay pal claim coming your way since you did the DC but you didn't ask that, you asked who's fault. The buyer is to blame for not requesting Insurance/signature confirmation. I assume as a large seller you offer insurance, if they didn't take it, that is the buyers fault. The package was most likely stolen which is covered under insurance.

[Trade-N-Games]

I always add insurance on items over $100 at my cost most of the time just to save my ass if a buyer tries to pull a fast one then I would only be out a few bucks. And then other than delivery con. on each package under $100 I take my chances that the buyer wont rip me off. often on New customers I will add insurance on under 100 also.

[the.golden.ax]

In the past the post office has denied under $50 insurance claims based on the delivery confirmation showing that an item was delivered. You have to use signature insurance (over $51 I think).

 

AX

[MrRetroGamer]

As a buyer, I had one or two items that had DC from the USPS show as delivered when I tracked them, but I never received the items. I initially thought they were stolen from my porch since no one was home at the time of the supposed delivery. It turned out, after I did my own investigation, that the USPS delivered them to the same address but on the next block. I went there on my own to ask if they received a package that was not for them, and they did admit to it. However, they had the NERVE to give it to me after they OPENED IT???? WTF? A second package also went to the same house one other time, it took me a week of bothering them until I finally got it, excuse after excuse.

 

I hear that UPS uses GPS and can tell exactly where a package was left or delivered from that technology.

[the.golden.ax]

UPS also charges tons more.

 

LOL, imagine USPS & technology. HA HA HA... sorry.. ROFLMAO technology.... USPS....

 

Personally, I had had an eBay payment delivered to a neighbor one time. I got the check a week later, without the envelope (so they opened it... kept the envelope and letter... and just gave me the payment!) I'm pretty sure that 98.x% of people are grubby bastards who would just as easily keep whatever they get than send it back.

 

As for me, and Christmas cards with cash for my dead father are fair game... At least I am related, and he can't spend it.

 

AX

[Starhopper]

LOL, imagine USPS & technology. HA HA HA... sorry.. ROFLMAO technology.... USPS....

 

They only just started that whole 'no signatures under $25 rule for credit cards