Dead 1050 disk drive

[Ganky Ghost]

I have a dead 1050 disk drive that needs service. When I power it on, the power LED lights up but the drive does nothing. When connected to an 800XL I get only the scrolling/repeating boot error message.

 

I remember reading somewhere on the Internet a while ago that the 1050 drives suffer from a very common problem. If I recall correctly, capacitor failure on these drives is not uncommon. I can't, for the life of me, remember where I read this though. Anyone know what I'm talking about here?

[+bf2k+]

1st is the drive spinning? Most of the problems I have had are related to the belts and such.

[Ganky Ghost]

1st is the drive spinning? Most of the problems I have had are related to the belts and such.

 

No. The drive doesn't spin. You flick the power switch on the 1050 and the power LED comes on. That's it. If it's connected to the XL and I boot the XL with BASIC disabled I get the boot error message scrolling down the screen. So the Atari knows that the drive is connected and powered on. I could have sworn I read somewhere about this being a capacitor issue in the 1050. Does anyone remember reading something like this anywhere?

[sup8pdct]

There is a capactor issue, but there can be other problems. Does the head move when powered up?

If not, it sounds like a lack of 12v. if the head does move, then it would be a motor/ motor drive problem.

The 12V problem can be linked to 2 of the large capactors and 2 diodes as well as a regulator.

 

James

[Ganky Ghost]

There is a capactor issue, but there can be other problems. Does the head move when powered up?

If not, it sounds like a lack of 12v. if the head does move, then it would be a motor/ motor drive problem.

The 12V problem can be linked to 2 of the large capactors and 2 diodes as well as a regulator.

 

The head does not move. What do I have to replace?

[thorfdbg]

1st is the drive spinning? Most of the problems I have had are related to the belts and such.

 

No. The drive doesn't spin. You flick the power switch on the 1050 and the power LED comes on. That's it. If it's connected to the XL and I boot the XL with BASIC disabled I get the boot error message scrolling down the screen. So the Atari knows that the drive is connected and powered on. I could have sworn I read somewhere about this being a capacitor issue in the 1050. Does anyone remember reading something like this anywhere?

Check for the diodes approximately in the back middle of the drive, and for the capacitors around them. The diodes are dimensioned too small and tend to burn out on heavy usage. The board then turns a bit brown around them and they need replacement. Also check the capacitors around the diodes; if they are blown up (caps blown like a balloon) they also need replacement. Also check the belt, i.e. whether the motor rotates. Try to remove the belt, see whether it moves then. The rubber of the belt tends to age, leaving all its elasticity.

 

So long,

Thomas

[MEtalGuy66]

I'll bet a dollar that its the 12v regulator... And yeah, the reason its dead is most likely a bad cap, which probably has also taken out the diodes..

 

Check the rightmost pin of the voltage regulators.. If any of them doesnt put out 12v or 5v, replace it... and replace the caps and diodes "downstream" of it too, or it will just blow the new regulator as soon as you fire it up.

 

20 year old electrolytic caps are suspect even if they test good...

 

Some times youll even find delaminated traces where the diodes overheated... You can fix that with adequate sized jumper wires... Just make sure you fix the whole problem before putting power back to the circuit.

 

Ive seen MANY 1050s with the exact symptoms your describing, and thats basically what it took to fix them.

[FastRobPlus]

I'll bet a dollar that its the 12v regulator... And yeah, the reason its dead is most likely a bad cap, which probably has also taken out the diodes..

 

Check the rightmost pin of the voltage regulators.. If any of them doesnt put out 12v or 5v, replace it... and replace the caps and diodes "downstream" of it too, or it will just blow the new regulator as soon as you fire it up.

 

20 year old electrolytic caps are suspect even if they test good...

 

Some times youll even find delaminated traces where the diodes overheated... You can fix that with adequate sized jumper wires... Just make sure you fix the whole problem before putting power back to the circuit.

 

Ive seen MANY 1050s with the exact symptoms your describing, and thats basically what it took to fix them.

 

Sort of on this topic, what have you observed to be the most reliable Atari disk drive (including 3rd party drives?)

I'm interested in "stocking up."

Edited December 9, 2008 by FastRobPlus

[MEtalGuy66]

I'll bet a dollar that its the 12v regulator... And yeah, the reason its dead is most likely a bad cap, which probably has also taken out the diodes..

 

Check the rightmost pin of the voltage regulators.. If any of them doesnt put out 12v or 5v, replace it... and replace the caps and diodes "downstream" of it too, or it will just blow the new regulator as soon as you fire it up.

 

20 year old electrolytic caps are suspect even if they test good...

 

Some times youll even find delaminated traces where the diodes overheated... You can fix that with adequate sized jumper wires... Just make sure you fix the whole problem before putting power back to the circuit.

 

Ive seen MANY 1050s with the exact symptoms your describing, and thats basically what it took to fix them.

 

Sort of on this topic, what have you observed to be the most reliable Atari disk drive (including 3rd party drives?)

I'm interested in "stocking up."

 

They all have their problems..

The XF551 has relatively few common failure points..

The old Percom drives are pretty much built like tanks... Havent seen/heard of one of them "melting down"... Although they probably suffer from the same allignment/wear problems in the drive mech, itself as any other drive..

I think the 1050 would be a much better unit in long-term reliability if you used an externally regulated powersupply (like a PC power supply) with it. 1050s get hot inside, and have lots of age/heat sensitive components, and not the best quality PCB... You could easily run 3 or 4 1050s off a single PC power supply.

Edited December 9, 2008 by MEtalGuy66

[Ganky Ghost]

I used to have an old Rana 1000 drive that was nice. It had a smaller case than the 1050 and had a bunch of LEDs and a pair of seven segment LED displays on the front to show the track/sector count. It was full double density, too. I wish I still had it.

[FastRobPlus]

I did have a Rana but it died not to long ago. I also have an Indus that seems to be working well. Not sure what drive mech. it uses.

[+bf2k+]

I used to have an old Rana 1000 drive that was nice. It had a smaller case than the 1050 and had a bunch of LEDs and a pair of seven segment LED displays on the front to show the track/sector count. It was full double density, too. I wish I still had it.

 

I had one too... I am going through my stuff making an inventory now. I hope I find that thing! I didn't see it when I moved.

 

I do also have an Indus and an Astra Big D!

[carmel_andrews]

Indus GT from what i remember uses a variant of the 1050 mech (except the indus one is double sided capable)

[sup8pdct]

Indus GT from what i remember uses a variant of the 1050 mech (except the indus one is double sided capable)

 

No. the indus mech is NOT double sided capable.

 

It does however have the Index hole detect and it doesn't have the door close switch.

Otherwise they are very similar.

 

James

[kurtm]

I have a dead 1050 disk drive that needs service. When I power it on, the power LED lights up but the drive does nothing. When connected to an 800XL I get only the scrolling/repeating boot error message.

 

One thing I know can cause this problem that isn't a 1050 failure is the wrong PS. I've got a 9VDC adapter amongst my Atari stuff that I'm not sure what it really is supposed to be for. But if you plug it into a 1050, the 1050 board powers on, but the drive doesn't.

 

I actually recently found out this PS had burned me again, making my Atari 800 look like it was toast. The reason why it got me though, was that it powered my 1200xl fine, even though both 800, 1200xl and 1050 are supposed to use the same power supply. It seems that the 1200xl doesn't care so much about needing 9vAC.

[+bob1200xl]

Yes, the 1200XL just regulates the input down to +5vdc. It uses a full wave bridge rectifier, no voltage doublers (1050), no negative voltages (800). Maybe not a good idea, but not surprising that it works on 9vdc.

 

Bob

 

 

 

I have a dead 1050 disk drive that needs service. When I power it on, the power LED lights up but the drive does nothing. When connected to an 800XL I get only the scrolling/repeating boot error message.

 

One thing I know can cause this problem that isn't a 1050 failure is the wrong PS. I've got a 9VDC adapter amongst my Atari stuff that I'm not sure what it really is supposed to be for. But if you plug it into a 1050, the 1050 board powers on, but the drive doesn't.

 

I actually recently found out this PS had burned me again, making my Atari 800 look like it was toast. The reason why it got me though, was that it powered my 1200xl fine, even though both 800, 1200xl and 1050 are supposed to use the same power supply. It seems that the 1200xl doesn't care so much about needing 9vAC.

[kurtm]

Yes, the 1200XL just regulates the input down to +5vdc. It uses a full wave bridge rectifier, no voltage doublers (1050), no negative voltages (800). Maybe not a good idea, but not surprising that it works on 9vdc.

 

Bob

 

 

I just use the 9VAC for it now. It had just been a while, and I had no idea. Now I just need to tune up both my 1200xl and 800 keyboards. I guess I should check my 800xl too.

[Marius]

Hi folks,

 

My problem is 'always' with this kind of messages and answers, that I can replace and solder almost anything, as long as I get step-by-step described what to do.

 

Does anyone know a site (with pictures would be best) where is described how to:

 

- check where the power of the 1050 must be found +12V and +5V to make sure that is ok.

 

- replace the capacitors and the diodes and that power regulation thing....

 

- replace the drive belt. Somewhere I read it must be rather easy to replace the drive belt, but I have no idea how.

 

Any help would be appreciated, and I think it would be a good idea to have such a fix-it-yourself side for old atari equipment.

 

Anybody?

 

Thanks!

Marius

[thorfdbg]

Hi folks,

 

My problem is 'always' with this kind of messages and answers, that I can replace and solder almost anything, as long as I get step-by-step described what to do.

 

Does anyone know a site (with pictures would be best) where is described how to:

 

- check where the power of the 1050 must be found +12V and +5V to make sure that is ok.

 

The power regulators are standard 7805 and 7815 voltage regulators you find on the left and the right hand side of the cooler - the metal shielding at the back of the drive. These are two ICs that look like "fat" transistors that are screwed to the cooling plate. The middle of the pins is ground, the right one - looking directly *on* the IC - is the output. The output should be either +5V or +12V. The 7805 and 7812 are almost unbreakable, I doubt these can go bad. They both have internal protection circuits to prevent overheating and drawing too much current from them.

 

- replace the capacitors and the diodes and that power regulation thing....

 

The capacitors cannot be missed. These are three cylindric huge objects right in the middle at the back of the drive. They often have a black or dark plastic cover. If this cover looks blown up, they are dead. To replace them, use a soldering iron. If you don't know how to do that, please don't, bring it to a repair-shop. Note that the capacitors are polarized, they must go into exactly one orientation. This is often indicated by a belt of minus-signs on one side of the cylinder, pointing to one of the two feet of the capacitor. The capacitors are standard parts, try to get some of the same voltage and capacity, "standing" (not axial) orientation.

 

The diodes are two tiny, black cylindric objects right in the middle of the three capacitors, with one white stripe around them that indicates the cathode. As for the capacitors, the orientation does matter, so keep care on which way they went into the drive. You should be used to a soldering iron to remove and replace them, otherwise don't do it.

The diodes are standard silicon rectifiers, standard parts, try to get a 3A/50V or more parts, e.g. 1N5400 or BY550-50 should do. These and the capacitors are available at any electronics component dealer, e.g. Radio Shack in the US, Reichelt or Conrad in Germany.

 

- replace the drive belt. Somewhere I read it must be rather easy to replace the drive belt, but I have no idea how.

 

Any help would be appreciated, and I think it would be a good idea to have such a fix-it-yourself side for old atari equipment.

 

Anybody?

 

Thanks!

Marius

I don't know exactly where to get a replacement drive-belt, but I found a fitting belt in my spare-parts drawer. To replace them, first remove the mechanical part of the drive, the motor, the stepper and the spindle. They come all in one big block that is simply stacked on top of the board. I don't remember exactly where the screws are, or if there are any. On my drive, I can simply take off this part once the drive is open. The drive is at the bottom of this block, running from the motor at one edge of the metal block to the spindle in the middle. To remove the old belt, simply cut it. To insert the new one, I found it easiest to first place the belt around the spindle, then use a screwdriver to put tension on the belt and stretch it, so it extends to the motor. Try to stretch it as far as possible so it reaches at least around the top part of the motor spindle, then place the screwdriver between the belt and the spindle, and rotate the belt and the main disk spindle so the belt moves into the notch at the motor. This might require several tries, but it is not overly hard.

 

So long,

Thomas

[+bf2k+]

I don't know exactly where to get a replacement drive-belt, but I found a fitting belt in my spare-parts

 

B&C had them last time I looked. www.myatari.com

[Marius]

@thorfdbg

 

Thank you so much. That was a very detailed explanation. I'm very glad with that. I have to archive this info!

 

Thanks

Marius

[MEtalGuy66]

@thorfdbg

 

Thank you so much. That was a very detailed explanation. I'm very glad with that. I have to archive this info!

 

Thanks

Marius

 

The voltage regulators do fail..This is a very common failure point on these drives. I am well aware of what the manufactureres claim regarding these regulators, but I can tell you from experience, the 7805 and 7812 voltage regulators most certainly do fail, and if you replace the regulator(s) without correcting tthe problem that burned them up, they burn up again rather quickly (like as in seconds, not minutes) after powering the device back up. Usually, the "chain of failure" involves Bad Caps which take out the rectifier diodes and/or regulator. If you dont believe it's possible for a 7805 or 7812 to fail, just "reverse spike" it with a source capable of delivering several amps. The "thermal overload" protection can save it from alot of "direct output short" failure scenarios, but when the source involves full wave rectification with dampning caps that are capable of shorting, you have a very real possibility of frying these regulators, and it does happen quite often in the case of the 1050 (and many other AC-input PSU circuit designs which employ these regulators)...

Edited January 5, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[Marius]

Perhaps a very noob question, but isn't it possible to add +12 and +5 via another way on this PCB, so even with dead capacitors it still would work?

 

Greetz

M.

[thorfdbg]

Perhaps a very noob question, but isn't it possible to add +12 and +5 via another way on this PCB, so even with dead capacitors it still would work?

 

Greetz

M.

AFAIK, this should, though you should remove the voltage regulators (the 7805 and the 7812) for that and connect the power supply directly to the (then de-soldered) output pin of the regulator (and the ground pin, the middle one).

 

So long,

Thomas