Would a Starcraft port be possible on the JagCD?

[Thorsten Günther]

Hello!

 

One thing I repeatedly thought about: would Blizzard's Starcraft - license issues put aside - be possible on the JagCD?

 

 

Thorsten

[Isgoed]

Starcraft! Yes, that would be cool

 

I can't answer your question though....

[Orion_]

Technically speaking, yes.

[Jakenut86]

I'd love to see a Diablo style RPG and Starcraft would be cool too but its copyrighted.

[Thorsten Günther]

I'd love to see a Diablo style RPG and Starcraft would be cool too but its copyrighted.

 

Yes, this issue was one thing I also thought about. Perhaps it's either resolvable with contacting Billzard and telling them their plans and/or by only publishing a "Starcraft JagCD builder" that requires all the level, character and sound data from the original CDs to create a stand-alone CD.

 

Thorsten

[Orion_]

Perhaps it's either resolvable with contacting Billzard and telling them their plans and/or by only publishing a "Starcraft JagCD builder" that requires all the level, character and sound data from the original CDs to create a stand-alone CD.

I think you are dreaming a bit ... and even with all the data, it would be years of work to code a starcraft for jaguar for only one man on his free time.

[Thorsten Günther]

Perhaps it's either resolvable with contacting Billzard and telling them their plans and/or by only publishing a "Starcraft JagCD builder" that requires all the level, character and sound data from the original CDs to create a stand-alone CD.

I think you are dreaming a bit ... and even with all the data, it would be years of work to code a starcraft for jaguar for only one man on his free time.

 

Of course it would be, but as I consider Starcraft to be the best RTS in a decade, some dreaming should be allowed.

 

 

Thorsten

[Jakenut86]

as I consider Starcraft to be the best RTS in a decade, some dreaming should be allowed.

 

:)

[BuddyBuddies]

possible,but very very unlikely.JAGUAR RULES!

[Hyper_Eye]

I posted here some years ago about my intention of developing a real-time strategy game for the Jag. It didn't pan out. It is not that I don't have the ability but time is always an issue.

 

What I have my eye on now would be less time consuming but I think just as well appreciated by the Jag community. I am considering porting some open-source games to the Jag and releasing them (with source code of course.) Unlike my intended project (which would have been released in retail packaging) I would release them as JagCD ISO's for the community to grab and burn as they please. The two games that I am most interested in taking a crack at are The Battle for Wesnoth and Freeciv. So that would be two turn-based strategy games. The most difficult between those two would be Freeciv imo.

 

Another game that I have an interest in seeing ported is Warzone 2100. That was originally a Playstation game but it has been released as open-source.

 

These are just ideas I am bantering about in my head so don't write these down as games coming soon but I am more and more interested in getting started on this all the time. I do see some time opening up next year for me to start on some new projects finally.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Hyper_Eye

[viMaster]

I posted here some years ago about my intention of developing a real-time strategy game for the Jag. It didn't pan out. It is not that I don't have the ability but time is always an issue.

 

What I have my eye on now would be less time consuming but I think just as well appreciated by the Jag community. I am considering porting some open-source games to the Jag and releasing them (with source code of course.) Unlike my intended project (which would have been released in retail packaging) I would release them as JagCD ISO's for the community to grab and burn as they please. The two games that I am most interested in taking a crack at are The Battle for Wesnoth and Freeciv. So that would be two turn-based strategy games. The most difficult between those two would be Freeciv imo.

 

Another game that I have an interest in seeing ported is Warzone 2100. That was originally a Playstation game but it has been released as open-source.

 

These are just ideas I am bantering about in my head so don't write these down as games coming soon but I am more and more interested in getting started on this all the time. I do see some time opening up next year for me to start on some new projects finally.

Well, I hope you do that. I myself would like to get into some jag programming eventually. For now, it will have to wait, but learning C is still on my list.

[Gorf]

Perhaps it's either resolvable with contacting Billzard and telling them their plans and/or by only publishing a "Starcraft JagCD builder" that requires all the level, character and sound data from the original CDs to create a stand-alone CD.

I think you are dreaming a bit ... and even with all the data, it would be years of work to code a starcraft for jaguar for only one man on his free time.

 

Of course it would be, but as I consider Starcraft to be the best RTS in a decade, some dreaming should be allowed.

 

 

Thorsten

 

 

Dream....just dont hold your breath too long.

[Starcat]

I don't think Starcraft would be well suited for the Jag.

 

Even if other technial aspects weren't a problem the resolution always is...

320x240 is just a little small to get good oversight in a game like starcraft. Whenever I play it I wish it had a 1024x768 mode or higher

 

Besides the playstation had some C&C ports, that were playable but by far not as enjoyable as the pc version.

That's just a genre that needs a mouse and high resolution display and best a lot of ram (for the time) and a harddrive.

 

Now that starcraft is even a lot newer than C&C, I see more problems arising there... Regarding specs.

And playing it without a mouse and lower res is just impossible, given the much higher game speed than C&C had.

 

Also I highly doubt anybody at blizzard will have the time or interest to reply to a hobby developer asking about porting one of their games.

 

Besides why would anybody even bother? You can pick up starcraft for like 5 euro and play it on any pc you might find in the average home these days.

[Starcat]

Well, I hope you do that. I myself would like to get into some jag programming eventually. For now, it will have to wait, but learning C is still on my list.

 

Learning assembler would be a better choice if you want to get far on the Jag.

[bmx]

realtime strategy is just not the right genre for consoles. why making a bad port of a good game?

it´s much better to create a uniqe new game with the same effort of time and resources.

[Thorsten Günther]

it´s much better to create a uniqe new game with the same effort of time and resources.

 

IMHO, the chance that a Jag programmer has a really unique idea is close to zero, since there are so few of them and even nearly every PC game published today is just a re-implementation of games done dozens if not hundred times before (OK, "Portal" brought something really unique to the 1st person genre, but also this title was based on another title: Narbacular Drop).

 

So instead of new ideas, I hope for people coming up with good implementations of old ones (e.g. take platformers like Gods, Lionheart, Deliverance, Leander, Baal, Turrican, etc. pp. and blend the best parts of these into one single title with graphics and sound accodring to the Jaguar's capabilities).

 

Same with 3D Jump'n'Runs (although i would like to see one with a rat as the main character - though I'm not in favour of the artificial cuteness of Remy, I'd like a more realistic look), arcade-style shmups, etc..

 

 

Thorsten

[bmx]

it´s much better to create a uniqe new game with the same effort of time and resources.

 

IMHO, the chance that a Jag programmer has a really unique idea is close to zero, since there are so few of them and even nearly every PC game published today is just a re-implementation of games done dozens if not hundred times before (OK, "Portal" brought something really unique to the 1st person genre, but also this title was based on another title: Narbacular Drop).

 

So instead of new ideas, I hope for people coming up with good implementations of old ones (e.g. take platformers like Gods, Lionheart, Deliverance, Leander, Baal, Turrican, etc. pp. and blend the best parts of these into one single title with graphics and sound accodring to the Jaguar's capabilities).

 

Same with 3D Jump'n'Runs (although i would like to see one with a rat as the main character - though I'm not in favour of the artificial cuteness of Remy, I'd like a more realistic look), arcade-style shmups, etc..

 

 

Thorsten

 

my point is to create your own game is better as a simple port. i like ports of good games, too (worms e.g.).

but a nice remake, an improved(!) turrican or something, is far prior over that and a very cool thing. it´s not necessary to create milestones in games history, but a simple 1:1 port is not what the jag needs in first place.

[Starcat]

it´s much better to create a uniqe new game with the same effort of time and resources.

 

IMHO, the chance that a Jag programmer has a really unique idea is close to zero, since there are so few of them and even nearly every PC game published today is just a re-implementation of games done dozens if not hundred times before

 

Now that's really an insult to every creative mind out there!

Of course this may be your opionion and of course that's fine for you.

I know what you might mean, in the way that there are so many games and it's hard to come up with something new.

Still if everybody shared that opionion the whole human race would still be living in caves.

I just can't understand that way of thinking.

I do believe that creativity, skill and good ideas will always create amazing game experiences.

With all the people living on our planet, of course every idea we can think of has been there already.

Still the personal perspective and creativity of one can make it into something amazing.

 

Also PC games are probably the worst example there is. Is there any system with less innovation in commercial succesful games?

With so many great ideas and genres being left behind by the PC industry these days, just because they won't sell expensive 3d hardware...

I really don't think so. It's not about innovation. It's about making money. Just about that these days.

Nobody is going to spend a few million dollars on something that sounds like a neat innovative idea.

 

And isn't exactly that the important advantage a hobby developer has?

There is nobody who says no to our ideas and stops making our visions come true.

A great idea doesn't require a fortune to be created.

 

What do you think why retro games are so popular?

 

There are many examples of amazing games with rather simple, but amazing ideas.

I do believe that many people in the Jaguar community would second that.

[Thorsten Günther]

it´s much better to create a uniqe new game with the same effort of time and resources.

 

IMHO, the chance that a Jag programmer has a really unique idea is close to zero, since there are so few of them and even nearly every PC game published today is just a re-implementation of games done dozens if not hundred times before

 

Now that's really an insult to every creative mind out there!

 

No, it is not.

 

In the beginning, video games were few and each was unique and new. Then the market grew exponentially, and it was more and people started adding smaller and smaller improvements to older games (this started very early, e.g. "Space Invaders"=>"Galaxian" (with dive bombing invaders)=>"Galaga" (with power-up and alien formations)=>"Gyruss" (with music and a tunnel vision)), while the number of really new ideas got lower, as it was harder and harder to have an idea noone else had before. You can also see this in this very forum - just have a look at the thread "Future Jaguar games by the community; what would you like to see?" and the many answers with "a game like [existing title]" or "a [existing genre] game" in them. Most even don't come up with a new (for the Jaguar!) sub-genre (e.g. an isometric shmup, a 2.5D or a 3D platformer) and the poll in that thread doesn't even have a button for RTS.

 

I do believe that creativity, skill and good ideas will always create amazing game experiences.

With all the people living on our planet, of course every idea we can think of has been there already.

Still the personal perspective and creativity of one can make it into something amazing.

 

Yet, this creativity mainly goes into details and design today, and that is very much work all of its own - also a simple game needs good level design, graphics and sound to be a success. When not enough creativity and/or effort is put into that, you end up with Club Drive.

 

Also PC games are probably the worst example there is. Is there any system with less innovation in commercial succesful games?

With so many great ideas and genres being left behind by the PC industry these days, just because they won't sell expensive 3d hardware...

 

You seem to forget that there are many, many freeware/open source software programmers out there who also publish many, many games without gaining any profit from them, and the vast majortity of them writes for Windows-based PCs. Just have a look at the site Gamezworld.de in Germany to get a first impression.

 

What do you think why retro games are so popular?

 

There's many reasons for that: first, they are much smaller and thus much easier to finish for a single person, even if it means that this person has to learn writing for a different hardware. Second, the user base is much smaller and one can gain glory much easier inside these communities than in the vast universe of PC games. Third, the games don't need to be as good to gain popularity for there are far less rivalling titles, so mediocre software may still be a success. Fourth, the capabilities of the retro hardware are well-known and the programming techniques and tricks are in many cases pretty well documented, but at least you can fiddle with the existing hardware and it's boundaries, while on a PC you are accessing a software library like OpenGL, SDL, Direct3D, etc., which is far less fun for some programmers. Etc.pp..

 

And because you apparently try to misunderstand me as best as you can: I have not claimed that every retro programmer does it for all of these reasons, or for any of them (for there might be many more).

 

 

Thorsten

[Starcat]

What I meant was, retro games are popular with PLAYERS, not just developers.

 

The Wii's Virtual Console proves it all. Some people even claim it's the reason to own a Wii and what is played most.

There is no way to argue about the fact that a lot of people prefer games the way they were in the 80/90s over todays games, which mostly impress with graphics rather than gameplay.

Of course there are always exceptions.

[Thorsten Günther]

What I meant was, retro games are popular with PLAYERS, not just developers.

 

The Wii's Virtual Console proves it all. Some people even claim it's the reason to own a Wii and what is played most.

There is no way to argue about the fact that a lot of people prefer games the way they were in the 80/90s over todays games, which mostly impress with graphics rather than gameplay.

Of course there are always exceptions.

 

And again, I beg to differ: there are thousands of retro games that suck golf balls through a garden hose, noone prefers them over anything (cf. Sturgeon's Law). It is the same as with current games, it's just taht the larger market makes it more difficult to find the diamond in the rough nowadays. The difference is that the industry for some years catered to the regular gamer mostly, making game controls (and controllers) more and more complex. Just recently Nintendo re-discovered the casual gamer who just plays occasionally and doesn't want to learn complex control schemes. This type of gamer will - of course - also appreciate arcade games and games from early consoles - which in many cases were adapted arcade games or loosely based on them, as most of these have simple control schemes and the rules of play are generally very easy to understand.

 

Regarding the plain graphics and sound of these early games: yes, modern games tend to have a lot of eye-candy in comparison, but even retro gamers usually dislike typical problems of early consoles (e.g. choppy scrolling/animation and flickering), that's why you will perhaps find the Amiga or arcade version of "Marble Madness" on a retro games collection, but never the Atari ST version (same with arcade "Defender" or "Super Cobra" vs. the 2600 version, etc.pp., you get the idea). And modern graphics on otherwise old titles will give you neither a old nor a modern title, I guess that's why this is hardly done (plus it's cheaper to keep the graphics and sound as-is).

 

Thorsten

[Thorsten Günther]

Another game that I have an interest in seeing ported is Warzone 2100. That was originally a Playstation game but it has been released as open-source.

 

I just did some quick research and found OpenRedAlert. Given the lower resolution of games based on the first C&C engine and the fact that Red Alert has been released as freeware, this also might be a better choice than Starcraft.

 

 

Thorsten

[Jakenut86]

Well, I hope you do that. I myself would like to get into some jag programming eventually. For now, it will have to wait, but learning C is still on my list.

 

Learning assembler would be a better choice if you want to get far on the Jag.

 

Could anyone tell me where to find some literature on assembler? I know some C and quite a bit of Basic but as you say I really need to know assembler for Jag programming. Thx.

 

I just did some quick research and found OpenRedAlert. Given the lower resolution of games based on the first C&C engine and the fact that Red Alert has been released as freeware, this also might be a better choice than Starcraft.

 

 

Thorsten

 

I still don't think this is gonna happen because it would still be quite abit of work and if someone did do it they could sell it as it would still be illegal so why would they go through all that work if they weren't going to get anything out of it?

[Hyper_Eye]

I still don't think this is gonna happen because it would still be quite abit of work and if someone did do it they could sell it as it would still be illegal so why would they go through all that work if they weren't going to get anything out of it?

 

Apparently you didn't bother to read my post in which I said I am interested in porting open-source games and making them available via downloadable ISO with source code available. This is not uncommon in the homebrew world and definitely not uncommon in the open-source community. The fact that you don't think someone would be willing to do the work without commercial viability shows you know nothing about the OSS community or the general homebrew community.

 

I have a day job developing software and it pays the bills. I don't intend to pay the bills with the Jaguar nor am I interested in doing so. Anybody who is interested in working on the Jag for commercial purposes might as well move along and consider doing something else. In my signature you will see a link for Odamex which is something I have contributed time and code to. It is open-source and a fairly time consuming project for all involved. It isn't paying any bills. Go download it. It's free.

[atarian63]

I still don't think this is gonna happen because it would still be quite abit of work and if someone did do it they could sell it as it would still be illegal so why would they go through all that work if they weren't going to get anything out of it?

 

Apparently you didn't bother to read my post in which I said I am interested in porting open-source games and making them available via downloadable ISO with source code available. This is not uncommon in the homebrew world and definitely not uncommon in the open-source community. The fact that you don't think someone would be willing to do the work without commercial viability shows you know nothing about the OSS community or the general homebrew community.

 

I have a day job developing software and it pays the bills. I don't intend to pay the bills with the Jaguar nor am I interested in doing so. Anybody who is interested in working on the Jag for commercial purposes might as well move along and consider doing something else. In my signature you will see a link for Odamex which is something I have contributed time and code to. It is open-source and a fairly time consuming project for all involved. It isn't paying any bills. Go download it. It's free.

Very Glad you are willing to do things for the Jag!

Much appreciated!