Flashball Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 Is possible to produce carts for the Jag for a so small community? (~100 buyers) I guess that the cost of production are too high... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonner242 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Is possible to produce carts for the Jag for a so small community? (~100 buyers) I guess that the cost of production are too high... Has been done before. Cant see why it cannot happen again! Painter had a CD & boxed Cart Version. Its pretty nice too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sargon Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I'm fairly new to the Jaguar scene and have been collecting for about 6 months, but to me it seems like the market has been starting the dry up lately. Sure there are the same common titles being listed repeatedly on eBay, but certain others are showing up less and less frequently. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, as I still have a long way to go to complete my collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songbird Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You can check out my Songbird site if you're looking for Jaguar games, but yes, some are hard to find. Rayman is highly rare, and I just sold my last Atari Karts a few weeks ago and don't expect to ever get it back in stock. I do have most of the Telegames releases, as well as my Songbird releases, in stock currently however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'm fairly new to the Jaguar scene and have been collecting for about 6 months, but to me it seems like the market has been starting the dry up lately. Sure there are the same common titles being listed repeatedly on eBay, but certain others are showing up less and less frequently. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, as I still have a long way to go to complete my collection! I've been collecting for the Jag for more than a decade. There was definitely a period where the market slowed down hugely but it pretty well settled down a few years ago. Now it kind of comes and goes in waves. Less common items will begin to pop up again as soon as someone with a large stockpile starts getting rid of them or a few big collectors move on. I think the big thing that is hurting the Jag right now are these sellers on ebay that buy up all the decently priced gear and turn around with a ridiculous price. There is one seller in particular and everyone knows who he is so I won't bother to get into it. Hopefully these kinds of people will move along eventually and allow a healthy Jag market to pick back up again. But there is no doubt that the games are more expensive than they used to be. I guess we can be happy about that on one hand because it means our collections are becoming more valuable. On the other hand it is harder to collect for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonner242 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I think the big thing that is hurting the Jag right now are these sellers on ebay that buy up all the decently priced gear and turn around with a ridiculous price. There is one seller in particular and everyone knows who he is so I won't bother to get into it. On the other hand it is harder to collect for. Yeah, tell me about it. I understand ppl wanting money, but geez. It the one thing that drives me nuts. Ex: Somebody wins say, a sealed Jag Flasback for $18+$5 SH so a total of maybe $23 I understand (profit) a will give you the maybe the $6-9 bucks you add on. So $30-$32 + SH of say $5 So I wouldnt mind paying $35-$37 for it, If I really want it bad. Because I'll go for about a AVG price. But then it appears ay 49.99 + $8 SH SO $57.99 Common! I will not pay 50%+ more than you did. I cant understand why so much! Why so greedy! Or even better it gets listed again but the pull the instructions out of it. And try to still get top dollar. Dont get me wrong about making a buck or two, but some ppl do it on MANY if not 100's of items in their stores. And it just sits for the most part...WAITING for some sucker to not know or has no more hair to rip out to take the bait! I'll stick with trades mostly from now on, I love it! I dont mind throwing in some extras for something I want. And love to see how happy the replies you get back from ppl are. And sometimes they do the same for you. I did a deal with this guy for 5-6 not to common Saturn games, He wanted 7 loose Jaguar games. He mentioned that he had just got a Jag CD but only had 1 game. So as I was packing his stuff up, I decided to burn him a few freeware Jag CD's and printout some DVD slim inserts for him and throw them into the box with 2 more jag games and a couple extra new unfolded boxes for the other games which I forgot I had extras of. I got a email about a week later from him saying "I think you mailed somebodies stuff with mine" I said, Nah just felt like it, Now you can have some games for that CD and Not like it really cost me abunch more too ship it. Plus Im more than happy on the games I got from you. He replied "Thanks Abunch, man!" I felt pretty good about it. Well I get home oneday and find another box at the door from him, I was like man I told you you can keep it! But inside was a sweet surprise 22 loose Saturn games in a CD travel case! I was Shocked! To have the tables turned on me. All I have to say is you never know what a kind act could bring in the trading world. Its not Always Bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in the dark Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm one of those silent Jag owners. I run through the forums occasionally. I have had a Jag since you could walk into a store and purchase one. And I am a regular player. My recent game purchase was Super BurnOut right before Christmas, ebayed. I don't have all of its games yet, but hope to have most at some point. Locally, I am the only Jag owner that I know of. Regular player of Tempest 2000, Defender 2000, and Raiden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Shooters are the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashball Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Painter had a CD & boxed Cart Version. Its pretty nice too! Are you sure of the cart version? I know only the CD version, even in the Atari Age games listing. I understand it's easy to make a CD, but produce a cart would have to be more difficult, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yes, some of the regulars at Jaguar Sector 2 put together an expanded version of Painter on cartridge. I know because I have copy #17! They did a great job too: gamepad overlay, slick instruction booklet, nice box, good looking label on the cart. PM 'OMF' if you want more details; he was one of the folks involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashball Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yes, some of the regulars at Jaguar Sector 2 put together an expanded version of Painter on cartridge. I know because I have copy #17! impressive! If it possible to produce cart for a reasonnable price, how explain that a game like Battlesphere is so expensive (500$ on ebay)? why don't they produce about 500 carts for Jag fans?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I don't claim to speak for the developers, but my impression from reading the various past threads here in AA and over in JS2 is that they've had enough of all the surrounding turmoil and want nothing to do with another release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sargon Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I don't claim to speak for the developers, but my impression from reading the various past threads here in AA and over in JS2 is that they've had enough of all the surrounding turmoil and want nothing to do with another release. So why wouldn't they produce and price the games higher in order to make up for their release headaches? I'm sure people would still buy Battlesphere at a higher price. As long as there is demand and money to be made, I don't understand why the turmoil of prior releases would dissuade them from another release that would turn a profit as well as be a service to the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashball Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 the question is: what is the cost to produce 500 carts + boxes + ...? 500 carts at 100$ each = 50000$! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 As long as there is demand and money to be made, I don't understand why the turmoil of prior releases would dissuade them from another release that would turn a profit as well as be a service to the community. Like I wrote, I don't speak for them. My personal impression (and it's only my impression) is that each release they've done has been a huge headache for a variety of reasons, and they just aren't interested any more. But don't take my word for - why don't you go over to JS2 and ask either Thunderbird or Oppressor? They both log in there semi-regularly and will see any PM you send them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viMaster Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 the question is: what is the cost to produce 500 carts + boxes + ...? 500 carts at 100$ each = 50000$! Indeed. And that is money they would have to put up out of pocket up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonner242 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I'll post a pic or 2 of painter tue. Maybe I'll do a side by side of BS so you can see the difference... Not that painter bad, it just you can tell when the stuff is done on a mass run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kskunk Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 So why wouldn't they produce and price the games higher in order to make up for their release headaches? As long as there is demand and money to be made, I don't understand. I can't speak for that project, but I can tell you that there is a huge amount of unpleasant work involved in manufacturing and shipping cartridges. The first time or two it is fun, but after that it's just a lot of repetitive work. Another thing that most people don't think about is risk. Let's say you did make 500 carts to sell for $100/each, and it only cost you $50 (plus tons of free labor). Then you find out only 200 people want them. You just lost $5,000. That's a lucky scenario too, because sometimes things go wrong. Maybe you made a mistake and the cart doesn't boot. Now you lost $25,000 and have enraged the fans who pre-ordered. Or maybe you use a Malaysian PCB manufacturer to save some bucks and 50% of your carts come back ruined. I heard that happened to somebody once. It's a pain in the ass. Anyone organized enough to create and market a killer game probably makes plenty of money at their day job. This is not a good way to make money, it's just a very risky and difficult hobby. So it's a bit like saying, 'There's money to be made in apple picking... why spend your weekends relaxing with your friends and favorite videogames when you could be under the hot sun picking apples?' Some of us love apples, but not every weekend. - KS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) It's a pain in the ass. Anyone organized enough to create and market a killer game probably makes plenty of money at their day job. This is not a good way to make money, it's just a very risky and difficult hobby. Now you know why some of us developing complain about people that threaten to dump our games before we even release them. We are not a bunch of Barbara Edens dressed in a genie outfit, and with one twitch of the eye and a fold of the arms, produce a pile of Jag carts to sell. Gorf was a CD, not even the troubles of a cart and it was a lot of work. Considering the ultimate outcome it was hardly worth the trouble, other than a few fans got a new game for the Jag. I just wish anyone who dowloads any thing, just once tries to make a game them selves and see just how daunting a task it is. This way they would be able to then understand us developers and out complaints a little better. EDIT: As far as a market? There really isn't any 'market'. You need a few thousand fans for any market you hope to be profitable with. We wont be sending any kid to any college with proceeds from Jag games, you cant be sure of that. Edited January 6, 2009 by Gorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashball Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 If it's too risky for few fans to produce 500 carts, perhaps Infogrames - which owns the brand Atari now - can help?... I know I probably dream, but has anyone try to explain them the situation of the community and for a game like BattleSphere?... We could argue that this little invest (for a big society I mean) is very popular in the original Atari community, and I'm sure we can find some others arguments for Infogrames itself, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'll post a pic or 2 of painter tue.Maybe I'll do a side by side of BS so you can see the difference... Not that painter bad, it just you can tell when the stuff is done on a mass run. What differences do you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 how explain that a game like Battlesphere is so expensive (500$ on ebay)? It's basic economics - supply & demand - simple -no? If it's too risky for few fans to produce 500 carts, perhaps Infogrames - which owns the brand Atari now - can help?... I know I probably dream, but has anyone try to explain them the situation of the community and for a game like BattleSphere?... We could argue that this little invest (for a big society I mean) is very popular in the original Atari community, and I'm sure we can find some others arguments for Infogrames itself, don't you? Infogrames didn't acquire the rights to release games on the Jaguar in their purchase of Atari. The Jaguar(not the games) was released to the public domain by Hasbro back in '99 - so anyone can release a Jaguar game now. I'm sure they would have no interest in making any cart runs for the Jaguar, nobody supports a dead system but the fans. Even if they did front the money for a BattleSphere cart run, your forgetting one little thing; the IP rights to BS. Scatologic/4Play says they are not going to allow others to make more of their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If it's too risky for few fans to produce 500 carts, perhaps Infogrames - which owns the brand Atari now - can help?... I know I probably dream, but has anyone try to explain them the situation of the community and for a game like BattleSphere?... We could argue that this little invest (for a big society I mean) is very popular in the original Atari community, and I'm sure we can find some others arguments for Infogrames itself, don't you? At less than 1000 carts Im seriously doubting that. Atari is broke. They last thing they want is to waste money on classic consoles that wont be profitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Infogrames doesn't give a damn about a few hundred fans of a long-dead console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'm a silent Jaguar fan. I've had my systems since the 90s. I think I have 4 systems and 1 CD drive. I have a whole lot of games for the system. Me and my son hook up 2 systems with a phone wire and play network doom still to this day. It crashes a lot....... Anyone remember this site? http://web.archive.org/web/19961120030152/...k.net/drkforce/ That was me. I still play Tempest 2000 now and then. I'd say we play our Jags a couple times per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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