WHat are some ways of making multi-colored sprites?

[Tyrop]

For instance, how is Bounty Bob (from Miner 2049'er) made? I know you can use DLI's with player-missile graphics to make different bands of colors vertically, but you can't have more than one color on a line (without critical timing). I also know that in Antic mode E, you can have 5 colors in the playfield, so do most games with multi-colored sprites simply copy shape tables to the playfield?

[Heaven/TQA]

you can use 2 players to overlap each other and when multicolour players are enabled in the GTIA the colours are ORed together to get a 3rd colour. so...you have player color #1, player color #2 and player color #3 (#1 OR #2).

 

that is a simple hardware feature you could use. see any hardware reference guide.

[Rybags]

Over/underlay of playfield.

 

If you leave the lower 4 bits of GPRIOR untouched then you get all kinds of ORed combinations of colours.

 

PM0 or PM1, PM0/1 or PF0, PM0/1 or PF1, PM2/3 with each other and PF2 etc.

[Tyrop]

Thanks for the responses. Using 2 players seems real simple.

 

Over/underlay of playfield.

 

Very interesting, so basically, I would create a shape table in the playfield that always stays underneath the player and travels with it?

[SeaGtGruff]

Over/underlay of playfield.

 

If you leave the lower 4 bits of GPRIOR untouched then you get all kinds of ORed combinations of colours.

 

PM0 or PM1, PM0/1 or PF0, PM0/1 or PF1, PM2/3 with each other and PF2 etc.

I didn't realize that the OR worked between the players and playfields, too-- but it certainly makes sense that it should.

 

Michael

[NRV]

I didn't realize that the OR worked between the players and playfields, too-- but it certainly makes sense that it should.

 

Michael

 

yep, you can do things like this: (P/M are the vertical bars)

 

 

or this: (P/M gives the colors)

 

 

NRV

[Heaven/TQA]

I didn't realize that the OR worked between the players and playfields, too-- but it certainly makes sense that it should.

 

Michael

 

yep, you can do things like this: (P/M are the vertical bars)

 

 

or this: (P/M gives the colors)

 

 

NRV

 

the Tetris looks good! no flickering? only by GPRIOR?

 

that is cool... so many untapped features...

[Tezz]

A perfect example to illustrate it Nice one NRV

[NRV]

thanks..

 

the Tetris looks good! no flickering? only by GPRIOR?

 

that is cool... so many untapped features...

 

yep, only gprior and antic 4, no flickering, no dli's

 

the only problem was selecting the correct colors to get the tetris palette after all the OR's

 

NRV

[+Stephen]

I didn't realize that the OR worked between the players and playfields, too-- but it certainly makes sense that it should.

 

Michael

 

yep, you can do things like this: (P/M are the vertical bars)

 

 

or this: (P/M gives the colors)

 

 

NRV

 

the Tetris looks good! no flickering? only by GPRIOR?

 

that is cool... so many untapped features...

 

That Tetris looks awesome. Are there restrictions on where colors can appear? Can you explain how the screen works?

 

Stephen Anderson

[Rybags]

I'm guessing it has a 10 character wide tunnel for the objects to fall.

 

That means you can have all 4 PMGs overlapped, giving the entire range of possibilities for Playfield and PMG overlap.

 

I think we went over this before - something like 23 colours.

 

PF0-PF3/BAK = 5

PM0/1, 2/3 + ored = 6

PM0/1 ored with PF0/1 = 6

PM2/3 ored with PF2/3 = 6

[+MrFish]

I didn't realize that the OR worked between the players and playfields, too-- but it certainly makes sense that it should.

 

Michael

 

yep, you can do things like this: (P/M are the vertical bars)

 

 

or this: (P/M gives the colors)

 

 

NRV

 

I was not aware of this either (sleeping during that lesson). It gives some interesting possibilities. Are there any examples of games, demos, or pics that use this technique? I would really like to see more.

 

Your picture is impressive NRV. However, the blocks that are highlighted with a shade of their base color look better than the ones highlighted in white. Maybe this was/is not possible...

Edited December 28, 2008 by MrFish

[Heaven/TQA]

g2f does not support this yet? I mean if I counted correct... would mean 12 colours without any DLI?

[+therealbountybob]

This is really interesting stuff, you guys are really talented

 

I remember reading some good info on the Big5 site... checkout this link re how Bounty Bob was done... http://www.bigfivesoftware.com/atari/Miner.../technical.html

 

p.s. Is that Tetris game available to download

[Rybags]

Didn't realise it use Mode E - I would have thought he'd use character modes instead.

 

Also didn't realise B-Bob was 3 players, I'd have thought he'd use a kernal which did the colour change which would probably reduce that to 1 player and 2 or 3 of the missiles.

[Tezz]

... checkout this link re how Bounty Bob was done... http://www.bigfivesoftware.com/atari/Miner.../technical.html

I never knew that they had created those unreleased almost finished titles Scraper Caper and the 3d Bounty Bob

 

"So we started on yet another variation. This time Bounty Bob was hopping around on three-dimensional framework with angry fireballs after him. That was probably the most sophisticated game display I had ever created. Getting all the mask priorities correct was pretty challenging.

 

Alas, that went nowhere as well. Looking back I realize that we were setting our standards too high. We should have released both of those games as they were".

What a shame they didn't see the light of day. I wonder if those previews ever made it out into someones archive or if they're lost forever?

Edited December 28, 2008 by Tezz

[Tezz]

Perhaps someone can drop them an email an see if they'd be prepared to release those games as is?

[Rybags]

I think I can remember Scraper Caper being announced.

 

I always assumed they just changed their mind and renamed it to Strikes Back.

 

It's a game series that should be taken further - something like a large-world scroller is the logical next step.

[NRV]

I was not aware of this either (sleeping during that lesson). It gives some interesting possibilities. Are there any examples of games, demos, or pics that use this technique? I would really like to see more.

 

However, the blocks that are highlighted with a shade of their base color look better than the ones highlighted in white. Maybe this was/is not possible...

 

I suppose that there are many.. the last colorful puzzle games should use this technique (I always believed that g2f used P/M underlays??)

 

You have a good eye.. you're right, only the red, green and blue pieces can have the highlight in their own color.. that's a problem with the Antic 4 mode, where there are two colors that you can't have at the same time on the same character

 

p.s. Is that Tetris game available to download

 

there is no "tetris game" yet, sorry, just an executable with the screen, P/M underlay system and the font.. it would be easy to make a fast time attack mode, but I have my "Atari-hobby-time" full right now..

 

.. going to read the bounty bob article..

 

NRV

[spookt]

I spoke to Bill some years ago about Scraper Caper and he told me it became BBSB. I posted his reply in a post to csa8bit and I found it again via Google Groups here. He says that no Scraper Caper code exists anymore

Edited December 28, 2008 by spookt

[Tyrop]

THanks for all the posts. That answers my questions about Bounty Bob! The idea of ORing has me intrigued. I guess nobody really thought of it back in the early 80's.

[+MrFish]

So, why isn't any of this in "Mapping The Atari"? (I realize the player to player stuff is, and I've always known about this)

[Rybags]

It might be in De Re Atari.

 

Basketball was probably the first game to use a kernal to change PMG colours.

 

Interaction of colours depending on GPRIOR settings is described in the Hardware Manual.

[+MrFish]

I didn't realize that the OR worked between the players and playfields, too-- but it certainly makes sense that it should.

 

Michael

 

yep, you can do things like this: (P/M are the vertical bars)

 

 

or this: (P/M gives the colors)

 

 

NRV

 

the Tetris looks good! no flickering? only by GPRIOR?

 

that is cool... so many untapped features...

 

Who needs VBXE...

 

@ NRV: Would you be so kind as to post the binary?

[NRV]

Here..

 

Tscreen.zip

 

Laoo palette if I remember correctly (only tested in the emulator)

 

NRV