Kilack Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Hi, Well it has been a long long time since I used an Atari 8bit and have forgot a lot of what I used to know back in the day! Anyway I basically want to put games onto real disks and boot them up that way. I have a sio2pc and a 1050 super archiver drive & 800xl. I remember always using multiboot menus for the games and then moving to Alphaload menus when I got the superarchiver mod installed because alphaload supported true DD and also ultraspeed or whatever you call it Anyway... I have downloaded mountains of archives off the internet and want to make up some menus with my favourite games and put them on disk. This is where I am not sure on what to do. Some of the .atr images I have contain 50 games in one image, others are 1 game per .atr file. first using the .atr images with only one game per image I have noticed a lot of times using the transfer option in the boot menus (transfer from boot disk) that it only seems to grab the first 2 sectors of the .atr image but works fine on others. I've noticed that the .atr files containing loads of games I can access them using mydos but have no idea how I would transfer those dos binary files to a menu like multiboot or alphaload. Basically I just want to get everything in true DD and probably with the ultra fast loading that the archiver supports. Also, does anyone have the alphaload menu creator? I got the images off the holmes site but only the punk menu version seems to work. The original doesn't. If there are superior menus out there then I am all ears too Thanks for your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 trying to remember alphaload...was that anything like ian k or usd dd menu or c.elton 1050 menu, anyway, your'e probably better of with howfendos v3.7 or 3.8 which has a built in utility to convert from ian k, rob c or multiboot/JW menu ...unless you prefer to go down the binary menu route (i.e. Microdos, speedy init or chaos menu's etc etc) In regards to hacking full ATR's onto Multiboot/IanK etc menu's...you'll have to figure out where the sectors load in memory and where each part of the program run's and initializes Once you've got all that info, you can begin to take the data of the original ATR on to a temp atr and attach a small boot loader on each part, telling the disk to load in the sunbsequent parts of data Slight issue with doing it that way is A- if the program loads in data into high mem (above bfff) or if the program transfers data from high mem (above bfff) to ram (a la thunderfox etc)...so you will have to keep either the original boot sectors or write some data onto the disk telling the program about the bank switching Also,8 there are siome programs on the A8, ones that come to mind are BBSB (Bounty bob strikes back) and all or most of the firebird (UK) gasmes as well as Operation blood (amongst others) where once the sector loads into memory it scrambles the data (i,.e the data on disc wont comply with the data in memory)...god knows how you will get these onto a howfen or similar menu (unless you dump all memory to disk and then work that data onto a howfen or other menu disk) as well as finding out where the game runs or initializes Also for multi loaf games, i.e zork series, gauntlet, threshold etc etc you'll have to find out where there additional data loads into memory and how much is loaded and where it initializes there again, what the F*** do i know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilack Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi, Thanks will look into them. Alphaload was different to them. It was definitely the nicest looking of the menus. The original alphaload menu had rotating bands of colours all down the sides. Also a rotating Atari logo at the top with bands of colours all scrolling down it. Very cool compared to the other menus which seemed pretty dull compared to it Unfortunately I've had a hard time tracking down the menu creator for alphaload. I have the creator but it doesn't seem to work properly, you choose an option and it just brings the menu back up again. I think the data disk isn't being recognised or something... If I find it Ill upload for you to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) I think it was similar to the spartados games menu's but more compat. with rob c etc I think i have some alphaload files in atr format utils.zip Edited December 30, 2008 by carmel_andrews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilack Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi, Ahh they must be from the same collection I had. Alpha-Load Menu Maker A.atr is the main menu creator but no matter what option you choose nothing happens. Alpha-Load Menu Maker B.atr doesn't boot (just crashes) but I think that was meant to be the data disk for the Alpha-Load Menu Maker A.atr but I can't get them to work very well. You ever had any luck with them? What is the spartados menu like? do you happen to have that around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Unfortunately i dont have it as an ATR format, only as original disk(s) anddon't have either a 1050/551 or an sio2pc ape/prosys cable to convert the disk(s) to emulator (atr) format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pps Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I always use this nice programme: MyPicoDOS by HIAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Unfortunately I'm way to critical of my work to release the 3 sector boot menu I made recently (SD/ED only, but planning on squeezing in DD support)... I recommend MyPicoDOS or Fender's 3 sector boot menu... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi, this sounds a bit like a thread I started recently http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135697 I am still having the same problem with Fenders 3 sector menu and my 1050 drive despite all the replies. Also with MyPicoDOS I cannot see how to replicate the menu without physically copying the disk each time. I am unsure what is the best way to do things. I am trying to make real Atari disks. I used to use Multiboot, Rob.C and DOS2.5 Autorun but am now looking for the best system to use to pull files via APE to the 1050. Must run on a straight 1050 (dual density) as I wanted to ensure would work on both my drives and thought more likely to pick up unmodded 1050s if it came to it. Want something that is quick to boot and allows the menu to be written to other disks (or has a utility to do this). I picked mydos4.53 as a base to use with these disks and APE but not sure if this is best option:?: I picked up a modified 1050 and it came with a bunch of Alpha-load disks, think I have the menu utility somewhere, will try and dig it out and see if I can image it for you. Any thoughts appreciated, even the step by step for idiots type of thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilack Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 therealbountybob I think the huge choice these days is half the problem . Back when I had an Atari 8bit as a kid we had either multiboot/multiload or Alpha-load for the modified drives which supported the true DD and ultraspeed which of course was nice. As most of the files floating around on the net in the archives are already in dos format it seems sticking with some form of dos loader is the best way to go though I still want to make some Alphaload disks just for nostalgia so if you have them floating around please send them this way!! I just had a look at mypicodos and must admit my attempts at following the readme failed. I loaded it up from mydos 4.5 and even tried atari dos 2.5, when I init a disk it fails saying it cannot write picodos.sys I am using atari800win plus 4 to do everything in, maybe that is the problem but it shouldn't make a difference. I usually do things in the emulator first and then once I find a working method move over to the real machine. I have found the "speed menu maker" looks quite nice, supports DOS files, supports all densities and can even support warp speed or ultraspeed drives too if you want and works which is a bonus. Load the menu maker image, init the disk, copy the game files onto the new disk, lock them in dos then run the menu maker init disk again and name them. I am going through them one by one so will let you know if I come over any better ones (in my view). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I am still having the same problem with Fenders 3 sector menu and my 1050 drive despite all the replies. Also with MyPicoDOS I cannot see how to replicate the menu without physically copying the disk each time Why copy the whole disk? Use something like SmartDOS and copy just the first 3 sectors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I am still having the same problem with Fenders 3 sector menu and my 1050 drive despite all the replies. Also with MyPicoDOS I cannot see how to replicate the menu without physically copying the disk each time Why copy the whole disk? Use something like SmartDOS and copy just the first 3 sectors... Well, MyPicoDOS requires more than just the 3 boot sectors - if you write it to disk you will see a file named "Picodos.SYS" with a length of 31 to 40 sectors (depending on the version you used). But, why not do it like this: 1) format a disk in DOS 2.x or MyDOS format 90k - up to 16 Megabytes 2) load MyPicoDOS.COM from DOS !! (the same DOS you used to format the disk) 3) when loaded, type in "1" to write Mypicodos (the Picodos.SYS file) to disk, then type 1-9 to write it to drive 1-9 alternatively, if you want to use the ultraspeed/highspeed version type "2" and then type 1-9 to write it to drive 1-9 4) to leave Mypicodos.COM type "0" (zero!) and you should return to DOS. Now use DOS or any file copier of your choice to copy your games/demos/... programs to the created disk (the one with Picodos.SYs on it)... 5) when done, insert the created disk and do a coldstart (under DOS type: M / run at adress, E477) 6) now the newly created disk should boot and all files should show up on a nice menu; use the joystick or keys -=+* to navigate, use fire button or Return to load any program; if a program does not load you may have to turn off the ultraspeed / highspeed driver... Its really easy and it works the same way as it worked all the years before with NanoDOS, MicroDOS, PicoDOS, etc.; there is no need to lock a(ll) file(s) as with some other menus; on the other hand one can create long filenames (up to 40 chars) from within MypicoDOS (but again this is an option, not a must; it still works ok with 8.3 filenames)... the Picodos loader has a built-in switch, e.g. when a Basic file is loaded, AB is automatically turned on, when a ML file is loaded, AB is automat. turned off... Ok, that description works on my real Atari with a real floppy drive - not sure if it also works on all emulators or all those SIO2xxx enhancements or harddrive interfaces or other upgrades... greetings, Andreas Koch. P.S.: I personally do not use Fenders 3 sector menu, since it is very incompatible with a lot of files and has that "nice" config. bug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 hmm, you get an error from within MypicoDOS when trying to write it to another disk ?!? Well, this could be caused by various things: -since MypicoDOS loads from DOS it might be that your chosen DOS does not support the new disk drive or its disk format (maybe it does not see drive 2-9, maybe the DOS you are using does not support higher densities, etc.) - it could be that one of your drives supports highspeed/ultraspeed, while the other drive does not; e.g. when writing with ultraspeed to a drive that does not have us (like a harddisk or some floppy drives) this error might also occur; try to use a DOS with normal speed for all drives... - maybe your copy of MypicoDOS is corrupted, maybe you have a cart in your computer or you are loading MypicoDOS from a DOS on a cart (there are DOS 2.0, MyDOS, Sparta DOS X and others available on cart) which causes the error, maybe you try to load or init. MypicoDOS under Sparta format which is not possible (its restricted to DOS 2.x formats)... - maybe you are using an emulator or some kind of hardware upgrade which causes the error... So the question is: What setup are you using currently ?!? Emu or real A8 ? Emu, Floppy-Emu, real floppy, harddisk, sio2xxx ??? What DOS filesystem are you using ?!? greetings, Andreas Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilack Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 hmm,you get an error from within MypicoDOS when trying to write it to another disk ?!? Well, this could be caused by various things: -since MypicoDOS loads from DOS it might be that your chosen DOS does not support the new disk drive or its disk format (maybe it does not see drive 2-9, maybe the DOS you are using does not support higher densities, etc.) - it could be that one of your drives supports highspeed/ultraspeed, while the other drive does not; e.g. when writing with ultraspeed to a drive that does not have us (like a harddisk or some floppy drives) this error might also occur; try to use a DOS with normal speed for all drives... - maybe your copy of MypicoDOS is corrupted, maybe you have a cart in your computer or you are loading MypicoDOS from a DOS on a cart (there are DOS 2.0, MyDOS, Sparta DOS X and others available on cart) which causes the error, maybe you try to load or init. MypicoDOS under Sparta format which is not possible (its restricted to DOS 2.x formats)... - maybe you are using an emulator or some kind of hardware upgrade which causes the error... So the question is: What setup are you using currently ?!? Emu or real A8 ? Emu, Floppy-Emu, real floppy, harddisk, sio2xxx ??? What DOS filesystem are you using ?!? greetings, Andreas Koch. Yeah I feel a bit silly , I assumed the init formatted the disk so that solved that problem. As a format is instant on the emulator you sometimes forget about it. Not an issue when using real hardware where you can hear the drive formatting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I am sorted now, thanks for all the help see http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135697 Good news I have found the Alphload utilities disk (2 sides) but bad news I now need to get my other (modified) 1050 setup to image this... hopefully tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilack Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Excellent, glad you got your menus sorted out Looking forward to seeing Alpha-load again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Just dusted off the drive and seems to work ok... Here you go folks Disk "A" has the format and menu creator... there are loads of other utilities: copiers; translators; disk sector editors etc. AlphaMenuUtilitiesSideA.zip AlphaMenuUtilitiesSideB.zip Edited January 2, 2009 by therealbountybob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 5) when done, insert the created disk and do a coldstart (under DOS type: M / run at adress, E477) You learn something new every day... I thought it worth drawing attention to this great tip on rebooting without physically powering off, should save some wear and tear on the power switch... Thanks Andreas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilack Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Just dusted off the drive and seems to work ok... Here you go folks Disk "A" has the format and menu creator... there are loads of other utilities: copiers; translators; disk sector editors etc. Great stuff, that is how I remember it! Everyone these days seems to have got their copies of Alphaload from the holmes collection which doesn't work properly! Good to see this great UK menu hasn't died! Thanks a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napo2Leon Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Hi, Have downloaded the 2 Alpha Utilities.atr files and they appeared to write out no problem using APE. The A disk boots up OK but on trying to format a new disk, it doesn't seem to work. Am I just doing something wrong? BTW I am using a 1050 Happy enhanced drive with a 65XE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 11 hours ago, anguswchristie@virginmedia.com said: Hi, Have downloaded the 2 Alpha Utilities.atr files and they appeared to write out no problem using APE. The A disk boots up OK but on trying to format a new disk, it doesn't seem to work. Am I just doing something wrong? BTW I am using a 1050 Happy enhanced drive with a 65XE. Since you mention you are using a happy enhanced drive... If you are writing out a single-density disk and APE is communicating with the happy with "UltraSpeed" SIO rates (52kbps) the 3rd byte of every sector written will be corrupted. Either disable all high-speed SIO for this process, or first use a real Atari to boot up the Happy utility disk and engage "UltraSpeed Emulation" - which really just enables buffered writes, which works around the issue. The drive can then be trusted for writing with UltraSpeed until it is next power cycled. Other sector copiers like "MyCopyR" automatically set this in happy drives to work around the issue as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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