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Kjmann

Tempest Xtreem Now Order Page from Video 61

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@kjmann

 

Is there something wrong? Most of the posts in this thread of your hand, do contain some 'irritation' ... It might be only me who has this feeling, but for some reason I never get a very glad feeling when I read your posts.

 

Please beware of the fact that the people here are your audience and also your market. In you posts about the 'binary' you are using strong and short language, and now again you talk like a military leader...

 

And last but not least, responding on some questions, suggestions or compliments would give you also a more human face.

 

Just my thoughts,

greetz

Marius

 

I do Apologize Marius and to anyone else. I was just trying to clear up the Confusion with the cases so that people would know what they are buying.

I was in the military at one time and I do come off a bit abrasive Sometimes. =)

 

I will try to be a little less Short with people in the future. although I really don't like someone asking me to give the game to them (which is what releasing the ROM image for the EMU's would basically do) when we just spent the better part of 2 years developing the game. So maybe I was just a bit irritated when asked about that. Although part of what led to that is the fact that I have stated in at least 2 different posts in the past that we would not be releasing this in any other form except a real cart.

 

So, once again I apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me short language at times. =) It's not personal just a Flaw with the way I come off when typing. I sound a lot different in person or on the phone. But I'm sure we all do.. lol

 

Yea... I find people are a little too quick to jump to conclusions about what someone has said in a post without affording some space for understanding the shortcomings of communicating with text/smileys only. If we all attempted to ensure that everyone understood exactly what we meant every time we posted something, our posts would each be so long and consume so much time to type that everything would move at a "snail's pace". The things that we are so used to in face-to-face communications are not possible here (facial expressions, voice inflection, body language... ). Additionally, we are communicating with some natural language barriers. So, keeping some of these things in mind before typing emotional posts, and giving ample time for statement clarification, can go a long way.

 

(end of "2 cents worth")

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@kjmann

 

It's ok. It was not really my 'problem'... but more a question. I really enjoy your game, and beside of the game I am very interested in following all other new things around atari 8bit, including this thread. And I had the (obviously the wrong) feeling, that you where not so happy with all the things going. So I worried about it.

 

@mrfish

 

There is not really a conclusion in my post. I was asking, because I had questions. Better to ask and change opinion, then think "bad" things and be quiet. Now I have a better feeling about this, thanks of asking.

 

And I'm still curious about a few things....

 

1. Is there a way to pause this game?

 

2. Will someone perhaps write a more detailed manual of this fabulous game. It might be me, but I still don't get anything (but I do understand 'you are spiked' thing now hehehe)

 

3. Why not selling binaries? I'm 100% sure this game will be hacked by someone, and then he/she will spread this game on the internet. You won't earn a penny on that. At least people got the alternative buying a binary. I know I would buy a binary, to use it on my harddisk in stead of cart. I already own the cart, and I still would buy (another purchase indeed!) the binary if available. I hope you will think it over again.

 

4. As written earlier: please take care of the way the label and manual are cut out. Mine is cut out like it was one by a child of three who never used scissors before. I think a fabulous game like this, deserves to be shipped with a perfect label and package. I know it was a rush job, and I'm very glad I received the game so soon. It is more an advice: take yourself and your games even more serious than you do now. I think the people of "sio2usb", "yoomp" and "castle crisis" know how to create and produce good and smooth looking packages and labels. But ok. enough about it.

 

And now time to play Tempest Xtreem again!

 

Greetz

M.

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@kjmann

 

It's ok. It was not really my 'problem'... but more a question. I really enjoy your game, and beside of the game I am very interested in following all other new things around atari 8bit, including this thread. And I had the (obviously the wrong) feeling, that you where not so happy with all the things going. So I worried about it.

 

 

I really wonder what he has done to deserve this term. It is written by Peter Meyer, the music was there aswell. Standard sounds right from RMT are used. And the marketing, communication (PR) and quality of service seems to be fowl aswell, earning money for nothing.

Could someone explain what he did exactly? Well, a young lady is "sleeping" with the right guys to reach a similar position. But he is a guy, not a girl. So it must be something different. Probably, I could do the same just to get some better attention with my sound stuff ?

 

 

...

 

 

:roll:

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@kjmann

 

Is there something wrong? Most of the posts in this thread of your hand, do contain some 'irritation' ... It might be only me who has this feeling, but for some reason I never get a very glad feeling when I read your posts.

 

Please beware of the fact that the people here are your audience and also your market. In you posts about the 'binary' you are using strong and short language, and now again you talk like a military leader...

 

And last but not least, responding on some questions, suggestions or compliments would give you also a more human face.

 

Just my thoughts,

greetz

Marius

 

I do Apologize Marius and to anyone else. I was just trying to clear up the Confusion with the cases so that people would know what they are buying.

I was in the military at one time and I do come off a bit abrasive Sometimes. =)

 

I will try to be a little less Short with people in the future. although I really don't like someone asking me to give the game to them (which is what releasing the ROM image for the EMU's would basically do) when we just spent the better part of 2 years developing the game. So maybe I was just a bit irritated when asked about that. Although part of what led to that is the fact that I have stated in at least 2 different posts in the past that we would not be releasing this in any other form except a real cart.

 

So, once again I apologize to anyone who may have been offended by me short language at times. =) It's not personal just a Flaw with the way I come off when typing. I sound a lot different in person or on the phone. But I'm sure we all do.. lol

I for one agree with how this was done, if more games were released on cart only, I would certainly buy them. After all the work etc that went into it,I would be a bit touchy as well about asking for a binary.

Hats off to you and Thank you for releasing a great new game in the form it was meant to be!!! :cool:

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After all the work etc that went into it,I would be a bit touchy as well about asking for a binary.

 

Asking for a binary to BUY. Don't forget to mention that too.

 

There where a few people that asked for a FREE binary. That someone does not want to do that: I can understand it completely.

 

But because a few people asked for a free version, everyone that asks for a binary wants a free one? Don't think so.

 

And because of fear for piracy, I still think that is a strange reason. It is rather easy to create a personal version, in which even the protection is related to a personal code. ( I remember the personal license for BBS Express PROfessional, I had the personal version X_476; I have never met anyone that removed this personal code, and I never found an illegal version of BBS Express PROfessional).

 

And last but not least. Since kjmann already told us that time was used for burning eproms, and recycle XE carts. I think it wouldn't be too much work to create reproductions of this card by someone else... or at least a description of how to do that. In that case it was still no solution against piracy.

 

So: a personal released binary might be a better solution agains piracy than a cartridge release.

 

And finally I also think it is a bit hypocritical:

 

1. Really (almost) any game ever released for atari 8bit is available on the internet. As long as it is my personal opinion: I would prefer only original titles on my atari. In fact, I collect original tapes for that reason, because I think it looks very cool in my atari room, all those colorful tapes. But almost any title is available, and everyone seems to agree with that, but when it comes to this game, there is starting an (almost overheated) discussion about it? Rather strange.

 

2. Atlantic Games Group is the group that thanks his/her success to the GOOD REPUTATION of the games they re-create! They did not invent those games themself, they take fabulous games, and recreate it for atari 8bit. I love this; really. But... there 'attitude' about releasing binaries is hypocritical. On the first hand they 'at least' borrow a good idea from original writers, and then they protect it like it was their own production. A bit strange.

 

 

But again: I do not want a free binary. I want to pay for it. But I really prefer a binary. But I might create it myself. I've done it before with other bankswitching, large carts...

 

Greetz

Marius

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If people knew the hundreds/thousands of hours and the actual work involved in creating these games, then maybe they'd think again before asking for freebies.

 

Fair enough, you have games like Crownland and Yoomp that have similar input and can be had free, but the bottom line is that if the author of a game wants to make some money as payback for all the months of work, then good on him.

 

Personally, that's one factor holding me back a bit - even if you make $20 clear profit a copy, you're still only recuperating a small fraction of the labour cost back.

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Fair enough, you have games like Crownland and Yoomp that have similar input and can be had free, but the bottom line is that if the author of a game wants to make some money as payback for all the months of work, then good on him.

 

Good Lord...

 

ABBUC Members stripped "years of their life" for the SIO2USB Interface. But the selling prize still retains the real hardware cost amount. Neither loan for the development, nor for the production is in there.

If someone wants to make money, he really should go to work, or at least do some reasonable software for the PC.

 

You mentioned Yoomp!... well.... As you might see, Yoomp! is a perfect peace of software. Gameplay, graphics, sound, all fits together. Hey, it also look like a game of "today" . If people want to spend money for something good, just send it to ERU.

Be sure, the next game will be even better

 

But what are people doing? Spending full money for the half baked Tempest Xtreem. Well, send some money to Peter Meyer, if you want to do something fair. Probably he will realize that the games will be better when doing them with better artists for graphics and sound (Powrooz and StRing for example).

 

...

Edited by emkay

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Well, if you want the lowdown on the pricing structure of Tempest, Sal has described it roughly to me over the phone.

 

Once production costs are taken out (ie money going to external organisations/people), they're lucky to see 10 bucks a copy, possibly less.

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But what are people doing? Spending full money for the half baked Tempest Xtreem. Well, send some money to Peter Meyer, if you want to do something fair. Probably he will realize that the games will be better when doing them with better artists for graphics and sound (Powrooz and StRing for example).

 

Sorry am I missing something? What is wrong with Tempest Extreem? I've been playing it solidly since it arrived here and I'm really enjoying it. Personally I say thanks to all involved in producing and releasing the game.

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Kudos to the developers for making a great release of a classic old game.

 

I think it's terrific that you have put in the time and effort for this, and expect only a measly few bucks. It's a real shame that some folks can't understand that you just want to be compensated for your hard work...

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Kudos to the developers for making a great release of a classic old game.

 

I think it's terrific that you have put in the time and effort for this, and expect only a measly few bucks. It's a real shame that some folks can't understand that you just want to be compensated for your hard work...

 

It is getting a bit annoying. NO ONE (just one or two people perhaps) is asking for freebies. Really. Please read the thread first.

 

The discussion is not: why don't you give the game for free. The discussion is: why don't you release also a binary file version of this game... not for free!

 

Marius

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But what are people doing? Spending full money for the half baked Tempest Xtreem.

 

HUH? Half baked? I disagree with you. I think Tempest Xtreem is a very well done job. It's incredible fast. It has old-fashion graphics, but very colorful and good detailed too.

 

I think the game is a bit too easy. But when you play long enough it is getting harder.

 

But beside of that (and no Pause key) I think this game will get a very high rating in popularity, thanks to the quality of the game.

 

Greetz

Marius

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first, I would like to thank everyone for such nice things that you've all said about our game. We are glad you like it.

 

I have had a couple of people ask about Free copies of the binary, but not here. Just messages sent to my personal email. I thought I should clairify that. =)

 

We won't be doing a binary release because we have plans for the code in other venues.

 

I Apologize for the lack of a pause button. We just flat forgot. also, to free up all resources we shut off the keyboard in the game code.

 

Rybags is correct. Pete and I make less than 9 dollars a cart after all is said and done.

 

regardless, we will continue to sell the game as long as there are people who want it. We did this game because we love the Atari and Thought that we needed to have this classic done for it.

 

Thanks again everyone. =)

Edited by kjmann

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Just got my cart today and love it.

 

Parts of this discussion here are strange for my eyes. Somebody is selling a game. I can buy it or I can let it be. Nobody forces me to buy it. If I thought it were to expensive, I just wouldn´t buy it. If I thought it is not good, I just wouldn´t buy it.

 

There is no free binary, so there are only the two choices: Buy or not. No further discussion necessary in my eyes.

 

I would like to own a little helicopter, but I even can´t afford to buy a Bell UH-1D. So I ask for a free one. They don´t give me one. What to do now? Steal one? Surely not.

 

But some critics at the game from me: The Bonus-sequences are a little bit disappointing, if you are used to the old Activision game "Master of the lamps".

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@skr

 

The point of the discussion is that there are so many (new and old) devices developped for the atari, which people really use, and now they can't use that because this game is only available on cart. Some people (like me) has a MyIDE connected to the cart-port, so they have to remove that everytime they want to play the game.

 

Indeed: it is not much work to exchange carts, so indeed what are we talking about. But on the other hand: I have all my games on my MyIDE, and Sio2USB, except for this one, and because of the fact the cartridge does not add any features to the game, it won't be necessary to use the cart*.

 

And THAT is the issue.

 

But ok. I'll stop about it. I'm very happy with the game, and when I really want/need it, I create my own binary (and indeed: no, I'm -just like atlantic games group- not going to share my binary with anyone else; sorry)

 

Greetz M.

 

*) In case there was extra hardware in the cart, that gives extra power, features or other funny extra's to the game (like the Extra POKEYchip in a certain 7800 chip) than, cart-only would have been justified by that.

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The point of the discussion is that there are so many (new and old) devices developped for the atari, which people really use, and now they can't use that because this game is only available on cart. Some people (like me) has a MyIDE connected to the cart-port, so they have to remove that everytime they want to play the game.

 

In Germany we say "Einzelschiksal". ;-)

That game is for Atari Computers and does run on unmodified computers. If you modify your computer so strong, than there is absolutely no reason to complain. It´s a paradoxon in my eyes: The strenght of our old machines is, that developers can count on the fact, that the hardware is always the same. And now you complain, because they didn´t care about a modification which is not standard?

 

And THAT is the issue.

 

I think, most Atari 8 Bit users can use their computer the way it is meant to be. They have no problem playing the cart. So, what is the issue?

 

*) In case there was extra hardware in the cart, that gives extra power, features or other funny extra's to the game (like the Extra POKEYchip in a certain 7800 chip) than, cart-only would have been justified by that.

 

The Atari 8 Bit is designed to play cartridge games. So that alone justifies to release games in a cartridge version in my eyes.

 

Edit: 831830 :-)

Edited by skr

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@skr

 

A piece of peripheral hardware is not a modification. But an add-on.

 

You would have been right about this, when I said: Why isn't this game running faster on my overclocked 6502? Why isn't this game using high resolution 3D graphics even when I modified my atari with a 3d hardware graphics accelerator? Ofcourse... you can't say a thing about that.

 

but diskdrives, tape recorders (and today there are so many diskdrive solutions)... i think it is a bit strange they are not supported.

 

I agree: the atari has it's cartridge ability, so indeed it is ok to use it on that. And like I already wrote in my post: it is ok they do that. But I would prefer to run this game from HD or DISK like for the rest of all other games also do.

 

The issue of the discussion was that:

 

1. Someone asked for a (free?) version of a binary.

 

2. Kjmann replied: we are not going to do that. No free copies!

 

3. Several people (like me) asked: why not selling a binary.

 

4. There was no answer, but other people keep posting posts like: no it is not a good idea to give this game for free.

 

5. I keep writing: people, I'm not asking for free! I want to buy a binary. I explain also why. It is not a complaint, it is just a wish, and I want to understand why there is no binary. The only answer I got is in point #2 (we are not going to give FREE copies). Since I never asked for a free copy, I decided to explain why I would prefer a binary (again: NOT a free binary)

 

6. I also pointed out that only releasing cart version to prevent piracy, might be the wrong reason. There will be a binary version sooner or later. Created by hackers or others. I think it would make more money to sell binaries yourself, than to wait another person releases a binary; in the last case they will make no money at all with the binary.

 

I'm ok with the cart. Really. It is more the issue, that I don't understand why people keep writing about free copies.

 

When you read the thread, and my posts, you see I already wrote in one of my first posts: it is your game, and you are free to decide how you release it. No one can and should tell you what to do. I'm not telling them, they SHOULD release it as binary file. I'm just writing why I would prefer a binary, and I would like to get an answer (other than: 'we are not going to provide free copies') why it is not going to happen.

 

But in his last post kjmann said one sentence about the reason. I don't 100% understand the answer, but I understand they have 'other?' plans.

 

Well no problem here about it.

 

Greetz

M.

Edited by Marius1976

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The issue of the discussion was that:

 

1. Someone asked for a (free?) version of a binary.

 

2. Kjmann replied: we are not going to do that. No free copies!

 

3. Several people (like me) asked: why not selling a binary.

 

4. There was no answer, but other people keep posting posts like: no it is not a good idea to give this game for free.

 

5. I keep writing: people, I'm not asking for free! I want to buy a binary. I explain also why. It is not a complaint, it is just a wish, and I want to understand why there is no binary. The only answer I got is in point #2 (we are not going to give FREE copies). Since I never asked for a free copy, I decided to explain why I would prefer a binary (again: NOT a free binary)

 

6. I also pointed out that only releasing cart version to prevent piracy, might be the wrong reason. There will be a binary version sooner or later. Created by hackers or others. I think it would make more money to sell binaries yourself, than to wait another person releases a binary; in the last case they will make no money at all with the binary.

 

I'm ok with the cart. Really. It is more the issue, that I don't understand why people keep writing about free copies.

 

When you read the thread, and my posts, you see I already wrote in one of my first posts: it is your game, and you are free to decide how you release it. No one can and should tell you what to do. I'm not telling them, they SHOULD release it as binary file. I'm just writing why I would prefer a binary, and I would like to get an answer (other than: 'we are not going to provide free copies') why it is not going to happen.

 

But in his last post kjmann said one sentence about the reason. I don't 100% understand the answer, but I understand they have 'other?' plans.

 

Well no problem here about it.

 

 

 

I hope you have learned your lesseons. kjmann is not doing stuff on the ATARI -just for fun- . His motor for doing stuff here, is for a profiling purpose. Doing the perfect pre-work by mentioning something like " hey, I am a guy with health problems and I have fun to do something for the A8" . Then he turns around, seeing every post as an insult and offers stuff he is getting once, to put money out of the community.

So in the future. you better do good for him, if not writing a mail to him and send regular money to sponsor his "world domination"....

 

Regards

 

emkay

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A piece of peripheral hardware is not a modification. But an add-on.

 

Call it whatever you want, but the fact is: You made a change (=modification) to your hardware. Otherwise you could use carts without problems.

 

but diskdrives, tape recorders (and today there are so many diskdrive solutions)... i think it is a bit strange they are not supported.

That´s easy: they want to make money with the game. And if they released it on a disk, a lot of people could not use it, because they don´t use disk drives anymore but SD cards or hard discs. A cartridge can be used by nearly everyone (except you ;-) ) who has an Atari.

 

 

1. Someone asked for a (free?) version of a binary.

2. Kjmann replied: we are not going to do that. No free copies!

3. Several people (like me) asked: why not selling a binary.

4. There was no answer, but other people keep posting posts like: no it is not a good idea to give this game for free.

5. I keep writing: people, I'm not asking for free! I want to buy a binary. I explain also why. It is not a complaint, it is just a wish, and I want to understand why there is no binary. The only answer I got is in point #2 (we are not going to give FREE copies). Since I never asked for a free copy, I decided to explain why I would prefer a binary (again: NOT a free binary)

6. I also pointed out that only releasing cart version to prevent piracy, might be the wrong reason. There will be a binary version sooner or later. Created by hackers or others. I think it would make more money to sell binaries yourself, than to wait another person releases a binary; in the last case they will make no money at all with the binary.

 

I'm ok with the cart. Really. It is more the issue, that I don't understand why people keep writing about free copies.

 

When you read the thread, and my posts, you see I already wrote in one of my first posts: it is your game, and you are free to decide how you release it. No one can and should tell you what to do. I'm not telling them, they SHOULD release it as binary file. I'm just writing why I would prefer a binary, and I would like to get an answer (other than: 'we are not going to provide free copies') why it is not going to happen.

 

But in his last post kjmann said one sentence about the reason. I don't 100% understand the answer, but I understand they have 'other?' plans.

 

Well no problem here about it.

 

Greetz

M.

 

I fully understand that. From the it was clear to me, that they are not interested in releasing a binary (in what way ever), so we just have to accept that. It leads to nothing, if people keep on asking.

 

I hope you have learned your lesseons. kjmann is not doing stuff on the ATARI -just for fun- . His motor for doing stuff here, is for a profiling purpose. Doing the perfect pre-work by mentioning something like " hey, I am a guy with health problems and I have fun to do something for the A8" . Then he turns around, seeing every post as an insult and offers stuff he is getting once, to put money out of the community.

So in the future. you better do good for him, if not writing a mail to him and send regular money to sponsor his "world domination"....

 

That is the point: Accept it or leave it. If you want the game, you have to buy it. The only one who sells it is the one who decides how it is released. Like emkay says: There are lots of people who release great games for the Atari just for fun and you can get them for free.

But there always will be people, who want to make money with such things.

 

I wanted Tempest Xtreem and Xenophobe, so I bought them. I also wanted to play Bomb Jack on the Atari immediately, so I had to buy a memory extension to be able to play it.

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I don't know what size cart Tempest Xtreem uses, but most bank switching carts will require you to have extended memory to convert to a binary format (see all the file conversions that require 128k at least, and some of Fandal's conversions requiring 256k). I guess that the code could be modified to load level data from disk, but the only person in a position to easily do that is Peter.

 

So, you would most likely need an expanded, modified machine to use a file version. I'm also totally happy with their (Kjmann and Peter) decision to release as cart only. I haven't bought it yet, mainly because I wanted other things for my Atari first... the NUXX S-drive for instance.

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tempest extreme -- a good 8-bit conversion of this, to be sure.. http://typhoon.kuto.de/shots.html

 

We could only dream of things (both programs) like this way back when!!

Typhoon was a remake of Llamasoft (Jeff Minter's) Tempest 2000 for the Atari Jaguar.

 

This sure Antic's Livewire to shame! Such a shame games of this quality weren't out when the 8-bit was still a viable platform. No bother, I don't plan on packing mine away anytime soon.

 

Stephen Anderson

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If people knew the hundreds/thousands of hours and the actual work involved in creating these games, then maybe they'd think again before asking for freebies.

 

Fair enough, you have games like Crownland and Yoomp that have similar input and can be had free, but the bottom line is that if the author of a game wants to make some money as payback for all the months of work, then good on him.

 

Personally, that's one factor holding me back a bit - even if you make $20 clear profit a copy, you're still only recuperating a small fraction of the labour cost back.

I would like both those games on cart,not a binary.

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Kudos to the developers for making a great release of a classic old game.

 

I think it's terrific that you have put in the time and effort for this, and expect only a measly few bucks. It's a real shame that some folks can't understand that you just want to be compensated for your hard work...

 

It is getting a bit annoying. NO ONE (just one or two people perhaps) is asking for freebies. Really. Please read the thread first.

 

The discussion is not: why don't you give the game for free. The discussion is: why don't you release also a binary file version of this game... not for free!

 

Marius

To easy to pirate. Why don't other release more titles like yoomp on cart?

Edited by atarian63

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