peteym5 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I must have been thinking about the XEGS scheme, I had to swap the locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have to do some research on the "SIC!" format. The site for SIC! is down and I am not familiar of how to bank switch. I would assume the technical documents would have been on there. I can probably do some trial and error studies with the emulator and debugger. However, it is likely we are going to stick with AtariMax formats since we are in the United States, shipping and fees would probably offset the costs from Europe. I consider the amount of time also. There are no current plans for any European distributors, we are trying to support the Atari stores over here. I may do multiple distributors for my own games that use that Adventure/RPG engine I started up work on awhile ago since I have more control over the legal stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Quite a few people already have Atarimax carts, if you were to release an "electronic" only release that would cut down costs as well. There are probably three camps: 1. Those who want a full release with cart, box and manual, and are willing to pay ~ $50-100 for it. These people are going to buy it no matter what kind of addtional release it gets. 2. Those who would purchase an "electronic download" to flash onto their own cart, or emulator play for much less. 3. Those who would only download and play it if it were free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I would definitely buy new release software for $5-10, if i know the dev is getting the money, and have to supply my own specific type of cart for its use... As for a a full CIB, I cant justify the cost myself, I know many others this is Gold Standard. But I dont keep boxes, as space is limited... A staggered release would be good also, full CIB, 2-3 months later an online D/L for people with the same cart for small fee... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have to do some research on the "SIC!" format. The site for SIC! is down <snip> The site should be up again. Server (pigwa.net) had some problems, sorry for inconvenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 sure I posted this earlier, will try again siccart-register-eng.pdf I think that has the bank switching info. Also, it may be cheaper to get your own pcb's made under license? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I sent KJMANN12 an email and see how he stands on using a different cartridge scheme. Wonder if we can carts made without any labels in a plain black case. Have to see how I can make use of 256K and 512K schemes, can pack a lot of webs for Tempest or easily fill up 256 rooms* for my RPG engine under 128K. Did speak with him, going to stick with AtariMax for now. There is concern about copy protection with the SIC! carts. Plus its not a very big difference in price. Edited March 13, 2012 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 SIC is no more vulnerable to being copied than Atarimax. The way to go, if possible would be a special run of either type of carts with the banking scheme altered slightly, ie store to different address to change bank. But even then, it's not totally secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 No doubt, anything that can be obfuscated and then run, can be unobfuscated... Not to mention considering how common AtariMax carts are, selling the binary alone, may make you more money in the long run then having a cart for 4-6x the price... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Did speak with him, going to stick with AtariMax for now. There is concern about copy protection with the SIC! carts. Plus its not a very big difference in price. Frankly, worrying about copy-protection is not worth it. The reason Tempest Xtreme is not being copied and distributed has nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with the ethics (somewhat a grey area) of the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I did some Euro to US Dollar conversions, we get a bulk discount with AtariMax already and doing it less than $20 per cartridge plus our labor markup. Looks like the domestic price here is about the same. I can get both my projects under 128k at this time. Looks like only a few carts are sold at a time and we never jumped in and bought a huge bulk of 500+ to get the unit cost under $10.. Edited March 14, 2012 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Digital distribution has the advantage that a program can be "signed" with a hidden unique section of data so that copies could be traced, for what it's worth. One big disadvantage is that the collector value is practically nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin_Lunchbox Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You know, we were talking about making paddle controllers that wrapped all the way around, but figured it would have been expensive. If I am not mistaken, the 2600 driving controller reads the joystick 4 bits and not the paddle pot values. Then again, its about 30 years since I've seen one. Not sure how many of those are still around. I wonder if there is a way to patch multiple fire buttons into a paddle controller since they use one of the joystick direction bits anyway. Have 4 bits plus the joystick trigger. Possible to rig a 5 button paddle controller or 2 with 2 buttons on each. That brings up something I am wondering Atari could have done with the XL/XE systems since they eliminated joysticks 2 and 3. Could they have patched in the Triggers 2 and 3 as second fire buttons for Joysticks 1 and 2. Would have to share leads on the motherboards between lightpen and triggers. Think the Sega Master system/ Genesis/Mega Drive uses the same pin Atari uses for one of its light pens. I hooked one into an Atari years ago. The Pen Value went from 0 to 255 when holding down the second trigger. Peteym5, I just looked at the dominant online auction service and there's maybe 25 listings that include a 2600/VCS driving controller. Oftentimes you'll end up having to buy Indy500/Race to get the controller(s) (it originally came packed with two), but these items do not seem to currently be going at a premium. Here's what Potatohead said over in the 2600/VCS forum about programming for the controller: "The grey code output changes only one bit in the value returned to the controller at a time. Think of it as a list. There are 8 values in the list, and the current one is somewhere in the list. If it's the next value, either to the left, or right, nothing was missed. On the other hand, if it's a few values away, you can know the controller was turned really fast too, and do something with that, if you want to." Another person said the controller makes use of a "binary gray code." There are a very few 2600 carts that make use of the controller, see here: http://www.atariage....&ControllerID=3. I also read it may be used with Track&Field. I am in awe enough of Tempest Xtreem that you may in fact have my 2600/VCS driving controller, no obligation, if you want to explore the question further. TiN[]BoX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) The Driving Controller subject has came up several times before. One reason why we didn't do it originally was there will not be a button or joystick direction for the Superzapper. Its possible to do it with the space bar but that takes something away from the game instead of pushing up or down. Plus the bonus round does require a 4 direction joystick. I am having some memory space and timing issue for the VBI routines to support multiple controller types. Memory Space may sound strange with a 128K cartridge. Have to keep in mind the VBIs, DLIs, and IRQs routines has to be in an area unaffected by bank switching. Doing too many bank switches and jsr calls starts taking away CPU cycles. Currently I am figuring out some other upgrades. Edited March 14, 2012 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Confession: I bought this game three years ago, but only have had time recently to play it...and it's amazing! Question: on some levels, sustained gameplay results in graphical 'garbage': the claw leaves an imprint of itself that isn't removed as the screen refreshes. I'm playing the game on an s-video modded machine...could this be the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This game is superb, although i think it is too easy (and might get boring due to that). It lacks definately a pause button. Since it takes a long time to finish this game, I sometimes would like to pause my Atari and continue after dinner of sleep etc. I would pay the same price for a file version I could copy into my AtariMax or Sic cart. I would even be more interested in a .XEX file version that would run on my 1MB memory upgrade. I hope there will be some decissions about this soon. It is such a great game. I have one of the first carts, from the very first batches in the signed box. Greetz M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'd be interested in an XEX version as well.... All of my 8-bits except the 400 have at least 320K RAM and I prefer to run things from disk. Definitely want to buy it if you release it. I haven't bought the first release yet. I was thinking of buying it and/or Xenophobe sometime soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I agree with kogden. A file version would be choice #1 ... so I can run it from my harddisk. I'd pay the normal price (again) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomguy Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 It happens more often... Users like you and me are putting their wishes in a topic, and then nothing happens and things keep the way they are. That's ok for me... but I would love to know what the chances are? Is KJMANN contacted already? And yes: did he respond, and what was his idea? I already bought an original tempest xtreem cart, and this is my offer: I buy a .XEX version, or if that is really out of the question, I would buy a version that can be programmed in an AtariMax or Sic cart. I would pay the same price as the cart version, so that means a profit, since you do not have to pay for the hardware of the cart, and other things I'd say: make it a personal copy with this message on the welcome screen, and do some serious encryption. One more thing to think over: I have NEVER seen a cracked/illegal version of BBS Express PROFESSIONAL. A lot of people (me included) bought a personal encrypted version, and no one ever had felt the needs of cracking this and providing it to other people for free. So please let us know how the chances are. If it is a dead end, I do not have to check for this topic anymore. I really hope I can buy something here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Quite a few people already have Atarimax carts, if you were to release an "electronic" only release that would cut down costs as well. There are probably three camps: 1. Those who want a full release with cart, box and manual, and are willing to pay ~ $50-100 for it. These people are going to buy it no matter what kind of addtional release it gets. 2. Those who would purchase an "electronic download" to flash onto their own cart, or emulator play for much less. 3. Those who would only download and play it if it were free. There is a fourth animal. Someone who collects and wants to keep their prize mint by not touching it. They still want to play but as many collectors do, they have many games. Flash carts make it easy with a jukebox style menu. I really think that publishers ignore that demographic, and it is probably more prevalent in our circles that most would assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I'd think about buying an xex version simply because if my 30+ year old technology decides to start failing then I'd still be able to play it on an emulator. Depends on the price really as buying 8bit software is a luxury / treat, my money goes on my family and especially my daughters schooling and her needs, she's a very bright 12yr old (didn't get the brains from me obviously) so bits for her learning come first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creature XL Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I would pay up to 10 EUR for a XEX or AtariMax version. In general, not only for this game. However, you have to rely on the honesty of your customer. I can't think of any way to protect it from being copied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 There is a fourth animal. Someone who collects and wants to keep their prize mint by not touching it. Who cares about them? If they do, fine, but I guess the one who codes a game does this to let people play it. Not to put it on a shelf and just watch the thing from the outside. If people want it to not play it, an empty cartridge shell will do fine. I can't think of any way to protect it from being copied. But one can encode the buyers name in the game, displayed at start-up. This does not prevent copying but maybe people will think twice before sending out copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 But one can encode the buyers name in the game, displayed at start-up. This does not prevent copying but maybe people will think twice before sending out copies. That also would not deter anyone with technical skills very long. Most of the people still using Ataris probably have the skills to figure out how to remove it. The fact is even the most complex copy protection does not stop copying. However, it can encourage people not to buy at all. If I can't back it up conveniently then I won't buy it. (That counts for Atari 800s, Windows, and Linux.) That said, I don't care about boxes and fancy artwork on labels. If it's new and worth playing I'm good for $10 to $15 for a image to flash to an AtariMax cart or .xex/.atr file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.