TV Channel(s) used by the various 400/800/XL/XE machines

[+hunmanik]

It's time to tap into the expertise-at-large to hopefully finally get this sorted out properly.

 

What TV channel(s) are used to view the RF video/audio output of what versions of the Atari computers, in what countries?

 

All NTSC 400/800/XL/XE, used in North America, use TV Channel 2 or 3, selectable via the switch on the computer.  That one's easy!

 

It seems that all PAL and SECAM 800XL machines do not have the channel switch, is that correct?

 

The PAL 800XL, lacking the switch, uses channel 36 in the UK, channel 4 elsewhere in Europe, and channel 1 in Australia, is that correct?  Are there other coutries with other variations?

 

The SECAM 800XL lacks a switch, and uses channel 36 in France (recently verified).  Are the SECAM 130XE and XEgs the same, lacking the switch, and using channel 36?

 

Do PAL 600XL, 65XE, 800XE, 130XE, and XEgs all lack the switch, and use the same channel as the PAL 800XL?  I wonder if this might be true, but I can't find pics of any of these machines lacking the switch.

 

Do the PAL 400/800 have the switch?  What TV channels do the 400/800 use, in what countries?  My guess, based on incomplete info: ALL PAL 400/800 have the switch, which selects: Channels 38-39 in the UK, 3-4 in Europe, and 1-2 in Australia.  Is this correct?  Are there other variations?

 

I'm wondering if this whole thing simplifies into two classes of PAL Atari computers.  Computers intended for PAL I territories (UK/Ireland) would use channels 36 or 38-39, while computers intended for PAL B territories (everywhere else) would actually all be the same, and would work with something around channels 1-4 depending upon the channel frequency standards of the country where it's used.

 

The question would then largely simplify into, which Atari computer models were produced in PAL I versions, and which were produced in PAL B versions, and what are the distinguishing characteristics of each?

 

What help and insight can you offer, given the machine(s) you have and your country?  Maybe share some pics of the rear of your PAL machines and the side of your PAL 400/800 so we can see where there are switches or not?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Rybags]

Channel 1 (I think). Might be Channel 2.

Machines here don't have a channel switch.

 

I would guess the channel would be market dependant. e.g. UHF wasn't in widespread use here until well into the A8 lifespan and TVs supporting it weren't common when the Ataris first came out.

 

Also, the low-band VHF channels coincide with FM radio and some countries phased out their use earlier than others.

[+hunmanik]

Channel 1 (I think). Might be Channel 2.

Machines here don't have a channel switch.

If you could verify the channel(s) used in Australia for sure, that would be great.  Maybe the channel is mentioned in the manuals?  In the past I've heard both channel 1 (no switch) and channels 1-2 switch-selectable in Australia.  I had surmised that the PAL 400/800 had the channel switches in all markets, including Australia.  And that maybe all PAL XL/XE lack the switch.

 

 

Though, I have yet to see a pic or scan from a manual verifying lack of channel switch on any model machine other that the PAL/SECAM 800XL's.  If that's just because I haven't looked in the right places, then please let me know where to look!

 

thanks!!

[Rybags]

I had a 400, 95% sure it didn't have a switch.

 

100% sure the 600XL I had didn't. And same with the ones I have now.

 

OK - verified Channel 1 with my capture card... best reception is at 62 MHz.

 

 

You might also want to check individual country's standards - the channel numbering isn't always consistent with the broadcast frequency used.

[+hunmanik]

I had a 400, 95% sure it didn't have a switch.

 

100% sure the 600XL I had didn't. And same with the ones I have now.

 

OK - verified Channel 1 with my capture card... best reception is at 62 MHz.

 

 

You might also want to check individual country's standards - the channel numbering isn't always consistent with the broadcast frequency used.

 

Thanks very much for the info.

 

Yes, I've been looking into the country channel standards also.  That's definitely the other half of the picture.  Most interesting!

 

In this case 62 MHz is approx. channel 1 in Australia, but according to the tables in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies 62 MHz is more like channel 3 in New Zealand, or Channel 4 in Western Europe, or Channel 2 in Eastern Europe.  If I'm reading that right.

 

But at the same time it will be really useful to figure out how many variations of the Ataris there actually are - or how much of the channel variation is actually due to different country standards translating the same Atari video signal to different local channel numbers.

 

So perhaps what I really want to be asking is, what precise TV frequencies are produced by PAL Atari computers?  (And where are there "official" docs from Atari that spell this out.)

 

There still must be at least two variations, to take into account Channel 36 in the UK and France.  Something in hardware must determine the channel frequency that is produced.  Yes?  

[+hunmanik]

Does the channel switch make this an NTSC 800?

 

http://www.rhod.fr/pages/atari_800.html

[Rybags]

You also have different PAL standards.

 

e.g. the seperation between the audio and video signals is different here compared to the UK.

 

All that stuff is just specific to the RF modulator and I'd imagine is probably not too hard to alter anyway.

[Rhod]

hello, my ATARI 800 is an NTSC

[UNIXcoffee928]

This brought back a weird memory... I traveled to France, as an adolescent, around 1983-84, and the two things that made me feel really comfortable there (...after a bout with food poisoning, & seeing traffic jams of bizarre models of Renaults, & Volvos that never made it to America, and a DEATHRIDE Taxi Journey, with suitcases flying about...) ...were both contained in the same store.

 

It was a computer & electronics shop. I remember it quite vividly, now... The spotless glass store-front window was filled with the (then) Very Bright Silver Boxes of the Atari 1050 disk drive... Scores of them, stacked high!

 

I walked in, & the (then brand new) Scorpions video for "

" was playing on the TVs.

 

The rest of the trip went much better. Those were some very comforting sights!

 

 

Thanks for bringing this topic up!

 

L8R

[+hunmanik]

Well, here's the way I've written it up for the FAQ, pending further help.

 

 

 

Most 8-bit Atari computers put out their video and audio signals in two

places:

 

1) Television cable (400/800) or jack (XL/XE)

 

This provides an analog Radio-Frequency (RF) signal carrying both video and

audio.

 

The Atari's RF signal may be used on a television that:

  - Supports use of an external antenna (normally for over-the-air TV

  broadcasts)

  - Has an analog tuner (NTSC or PAL or SECAM, matching the version of the

  computer)

  - Has a tuner that can additionally tune to the necessary TV channel(s) used

  by the Atari

 

If the television has a speaker then it should support the Atari's sound

output as well.

 

NTSC (North America) Atari 8-bit computers make the RF audio/video signal

available on a choice of two television frequencies, selected with a physical

switch located on the back of the computer (on the side of the 800):

  - 55.25MHz video/59.75MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 2 in North America, or

  - 61.25MHz video/65.75Mhz audio

  ` TV Channel 3 in North America

 

PAL and SECAM (Europe) Atari 8-bit computers make the RF audio/video signal

available on a single television frequency, depending on the television

frequencies used in the destination country.

 

PAL computers intended for use in "PAL I" countries (United Kingdom) use:

  - 591.25MHz video/597.25MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 36 in the UK

 

PAL computers intended for use in "PAL B" countries (Europe, Australia) use:

  - 62.25MHz video/67.75MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 4 in Western Europe

  ` TV Channel 2 in Eastern Europe

  ` TV Channel 1 in Australia

 

SECAM computers use:

  - 591.25MHz video/597.75MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 36 in France

 

Other than the frequency of the RF signal, there is no difference between

"PAL I" Atari computers and "PAL B" Atari computers.

 

If your country is not included above, Wikipedia has a nice table of

television channel frequencies used around the world that you may find

helpful for determining the channel to tune your TV to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies

 

 *NOTE: MC has worked with limited reports to determine the channels used

 *around the world. I would greatly appreciate any corrections/additions to

 *the information provided here! In particular, I'm looking to verify the

 *actual RF signal frequencies produced by the Atari.

 *The above frequency values are only taken from the channels reported to be

 *used in various countries.

[mimo]

Just checked both of my PAL-I (UK) 400s. They both have a channel select switch.

Neither are in a working state right now, so I can't confirm what effect (if any) the switch has

[mimo]

hello, my ATARI 800 is an NTSC

Beautiful whatever TV system it is

[+hunmanik]

Just checked both of my PAL-I (UK) 400s. They both have a channel select switch.

Neither are in a working state right now, so I can't confirm what effect (if any) the switch has

 

Thanks.

 

 

I guess we need more input from people with (working) PAL 400's or PAL 800's if we're going to figure out the pattern.

 

Who has one?  What TV channel do you turn to?  Does yours have a switch?  What does it do?

 

BTW, the switch on the 400 would be on the back.  On the 800, it's on the side.

[Rybags]

Thinking about it again... the 400s here might have had a channel switch. I can remember favouring Channel 1 since a distant channel (2) that you could pick up with a decent antenna could sometimes cause interference.

[mimo]

Well I just got a new case from DoctorClu, so I may get around to getting a working one sorted in a day or two (don't hold your breath though!)

[+hunmanik]

I've gone back to my earlier theory that ALL 400/800 machines, both NTSC and PAL, do include a TV channel switch. My revised write up now looks like this. Additional help/clarifications would be most appreciated! Connect your Atari to a TV and see if the channel(s) you use match what I claim here!

 

The Atari's RF signal may be used on a television that:

  - Supports use of an external antenna (normally for viewing over-the-air TV

  broadcasts)

  - Has an analog tuner (NTSC or PAL or SECAM, matching the version of the

  computer)

  - Has a tuner that can additionally tune to the necessary TV channel(s) used

  by the Atari

 

If the television has a speaker then it should support the Atari's sound

output as well.

 

All NTSC (North America) Atari 8-bit computers make the RF audio/video signal

available on a choice of two television frequencies, selected with a physical

switch located on the back of the computer (on the side of the 800):

  - 55.25MHz video/59.75MHz audio (TV Channel 2 in North America), or

  - 61.25MHz video/65.75Mhz audio (TV Channel 3 in North America)

 

PAL (Europe) Atari 400/800 computers also make the RF audio/video signal

available on a choice of two television frequencies, selected with a physical

switch located on the back of the 400, or on the side of the 800.

 

PAL 400/800 computers intended for use in "PAL I" countries (UK) use:

  - 607.25MHz video/613.25MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 38 in the UK

  - 615.25MHz video/621.25MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 39 in the UK

 

PAL 400/800 computers intended for use in "PAL B" countries (Europe) use:

  - 55.25MHz video/60.75 audio

  ` TV Channel 3 in Western Europe

  ` TV Channel 2 in Eastern Europe (approx.)

  ` TV Channel 1 in Australia (approx.)

  - 62.25MHz video/67.75MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 4 in Western Europe

  ` TV Channel 2 in Eastern Europe (approx.)

  ` TV Channel 1 in Australia (approx.)

 

PAL (Europe) Atari XL/XE computers make the RF audio/video signal available on

a single television frequency.

 

PAL XL/XE computers intended for use in "PAL I" countries (UK) use:

  - 591.25MHz video/597.25MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 36 in the UK

 

PAL XL/XE computers intended for use in "PAL B" countries (Europe) use:

  - 62.25MHz video/67.75MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 4 in Western Europe

  ` TV Channel 2 in Eastern Europe (approx.)

  ` TV Channel 1 in Australia (approx.)

 

SECAM (France) Atari 800XL/130XE/XE Game Systems make the RF audio/video

signal available on a single television frequency:

  - 591.25MHz video/597.75MHz audio

  ` TV Channel 36 in France

 

Other than the frequency of the RF signal produced, there is no difference

between the "PAL I" and "PAL B" versions of PAL Atari computers.

 

If your country is not included above, Wikipedia has a nice table of

television channel frequencies used around the world that you may find

helpful for determining the channel to tune your TV to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies

 

 *NOTE: MC has worked with limited reports to determine the channels used

 *around the world. I would greatly appreciate any corrections/additions to

 *the information provided here! In particular, I'm looking to verify the

 *actual RF signal frequencies produced by the Atari.

 *The above frequency values are only taken from the channels reported to be

 *used in various countries.

[Urchlay]

Hm, so channel 2 in the US uses the same video frequency as channel 3 in Western Europe... would this mean that an NTSC 400/800 would display OK in black & white on e.g. a TV made for Germany and tuned to channel 3, assuming the TV could sync to the 60Hz framerate?

 

Or is the actual RF modulation different between the two TV standards too?

 

Same question phrased differently: I'm in the US, and I have an old NTSC TV that's able to sync to 50Hz (e.g. it can play PAL Atari 2600 games without rolling, though the colors are wrong because I'm using an NTSC 2600). If I had a German Atari 800, with its switch set to channel 3, would I be able to see a picture on channel 2 on my TV? (I know it'd be black & white due to the different color encoding scheme, and the audio carrier frequency is different so it'd either be silent or full of noise).

[mimo]

Sorry, don't know the answer directly, but I think that if you used s-video or composite then it would work well if your tv can do 50HZ.

One other Q though, why would you want a German 800? They cost about 4 times that of an American 800 and postage would be a killer

[Urchlay]

Sorry, don't know the answer directly, but I think that if you used s-video or composite then it would work well if your tv can do 50HZ.

 

I know it'd work with s-video or composite... the question was whether it would work with RF not (really it's a question about RF TV

transmission, not really about Atari at all...)

 

One other Q though, why would you want a German 800? They cost about 4 times that of an American 800 and postage would be a killer

 

Oh I don't, I was just giving a hypothetical situation

 

I *do* want to own a PAL Atari of some kind, someday (don't care which country it's from or what model, so long as I can upgrade it to at least 256K). There's just too much software that's PAL-only... and for display I'd likely have to use a PC with a TV capture card (PAL or multistandard TVs are impossible to find here).