Mark Wolfe Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I have a perfectly fine 800XL... why do I need a 1200XL ? Does it offer anything above and beyond the 800XL? better video? more ram? goes to 1200? wha?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The differences of the 1200XL are: 1. Better keyboard. 2. No built-in BASIC. 3. No PBI port. 4. Cartridge slot on side. 5. Angled joystick ports. 6. Large case with plenty of room for mods. 7. It's a rarer item (so will cost more). I actually prefer the 800XL myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliecron Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 It has a better keyboard. It looks very nice. It has functions keys. It has better video once you fix it. There were fewer made. It does not have BASIC so you don't have to hold down option all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The 1200xl has more LEDs and is the sexiest piece of computer equipment ever designed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 800xl is nice and is what I want to get, but I have to agree with yorgle... 1200xl is just a stunningly gorgeous machine. I'd have to agree it's the most beautiful one produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The 1200XL is Atari Pr0n Ok, so in standard spec it is probably less useful than an 800xl, but oooooh those looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 i'd say 800xl, because there is no Pal version of the 1200xl... but i agree the looks are superb of the 1200XL. But don't forget: 800XL looks very good too. I'm really happy with my 800XL, and would not trade it for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The best by far is a 1200XL with a (rebuilt right)130xe motherboard in it.. And those DO come in PAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Just to add to what everyone here has said. If you're going straight stock without any modifications then stick with the 800XL. However if you're willing to do some work under the hood, then the 1200XL can become a much better machine. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 so I was right... 'it goes to 1200' gotchya. I assume the video mod page is in these forums for the day I do get one... and I WILL get one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 The best by far is a 1200XL with a (rebuilt right)130xe motherboard in it.. And those DO come in PAL. show your work, explain why this is superior and what you mean by "rebuilt right"? does this mean the 130xe is the be all end all and that putting it in a 1200xl case is icing on the cake? if so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) The best by far is a 1200XL with a (rebuilt right)130xe motherboard in it.. And those DO come in PAL. show your work, explain why this is superior and what you mean by "rebuilt right"? does this mean the 130xe is the be all end all and that putting it in a 1200xl case is icing on the cake? if so, why? The only thing desirable about the 1200XL is its case & keyboard... It takes much more work to bring a 1200XL motherboard "up to a decent standard" than it does on an 800XL... The 130XE is by far the most advanced designed 8-bit from the factory.. Unfortunatley, the keyboard sucks... And the build quality of the motherboards suck, making it a flakey piece of crap, more often than not.. If you strip the 130xe motherboard and rebuild it with all quality sockets, and quality components, and do a decent job of soldering it (which atari didnt in alot of cases), its an awesome machine... But the keyboard still sucks.. The 1200XL case is "the sexiest" in many peoples oppinions, and the 1200XL keyboard has the best feel to it by MOST people's oppinions (with the possible exception of the original beige 800)... So... you rebuild the 130XE motherboard with decent parts & assembly techniques... Stick it in the 1200XL case, with the 1200XL keyboard... And you've got the highest level of fuctionality, as well as the best cosmetics and ergonomics... Yes you can MOD a 1200XL motherboard to any spec you want... You end up with alot more "hacks" inside the machine than you would if you had just started with the motherboard that already has most of those "upgrades" designed into it to begin with (the 130xe motherboard).. Edited February 3, 2009 by MEtalGuy66 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 thanks for running that down. duly noted. how hard is the video upgrade for the 1200XL and is that the main issue to deal with when I get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 http://www.retrobits.net/atari/clearpic.shtml looks fairly simple, but I have not done this mod myself. The only other doubt is compatibility with the rest of the 8bit range of computers, which has been blown out of proportion I think, but a 32-in-1 OS from Atarimax soon sorts that problem out, or the OS from a donor XL/XE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I just did the Clearpic2 mod on two 1200xl's and was extremely pleased with the results. Unless you're prone to seizures, soldering in the parts is fairly easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) thanks for running that down. duly noted. how hard is the video upgrade for the 1200XL and is that the main issue to deal with when I get one? Well, the video output of the 1200XL is pretty crappy.. Thats for sure.. But the video upgrade is not hard to do, and after it's done, the video output is easily on the par with any other XL/XE.. Here are the issues I was referring to: 1) the OS ROM: The 1200XL uses two separate 8k roms for it's OS, rather than one 16k ROM like the rest of the XL/XEs.. To fix this, you need to desolder & replace a 24pin socket from the motherboard with a 28pin one, replace the MMU chip with the 800XL/130XE MMU chip (which gives you a 16k bank select for the new ROM), move some hard-soldered jumpers, and get the XL/XE rom, an EPROM, or a 32-in-one OS upgrade (which plugs right into any other XL/XE with no modifications.) 2) no internal BASIC.. This may not be an issue for you if you dont require Internal BASIC.. You can just use a BASIC cartridge if you want.. To ADD Internal BASIC to the 1200XL, you have to do some additional wiring, and convert the second ROM socket to use either an ATARI basic ROM, or an EPROM containing it.. 3)no PBI.. If you ever want to use any serious hardisk controller device, you need a PBI bus expansion port. The 1200XL does not have this, nor does it have a place to conveniently install one.. The classic 'DIY HACK' for this one involves 50 wires soldered to all different points inside the machine, and is a total "rat's nest"... I am producing some PCBs that make it alot easier (only 10 wires), but these still must be hard soldered to various points on the 1200XL motherboard.. This also REQUIRES some form of OS ROM upgrade (such as the one listed above) because the stock 1200 OS ROMS do not contain code for dealing with the PBI bus at all. 600XL,800XL,130XE, 800XE, and (non-NTSC)65XE machines all come with a PBI bus a built into the motherboard design from the factory. 4)only 7bits of refresh on the ANTIC chip.. This means you have to build additional circuits (to refresh the DRAM) any time you do an extended memory upgrade (in otherwords to expand the machine beyond 64k) or you have to replace the ANTIC chip with one from an 800XL or 130xe.. The exceptions to this are the SRAM based upgrades that have been coming out in recent years due to the price drop in SRAM technology.. SRAM does not require refresh at all. All of the "classic" memory upgrades for 8-bits (Claus Bucholz, CompyShop, etc.) were based on DRAM (which used to be much cheaper than SRAM) and thus refresh is required.. 5)No power to the SIO bus: This is a real easy one to fix, and is only an issue on a few devices (such as the XM301 modem and P:R: connection) that draw power from the SIO bus. 6)Even if you do expand the memory, you're not going to have separate ANTIC & CPU access to the extended ram unless you add yet another circuit that performs the functionality that the 130XE comes with from the factory.. This feature is not used in many programs, but is kewl as hell from a programming standpoint, especially where the management of screen memory pages is concerned.. Anyone who can think of anything else I left out is welcome to add to this... Like I said earlier, there are ways to Get around all of these issues on the 1200XL motherboard.. But why not start with a motherboard that already has all of these features built in, rather than installing all of those "hacks"? Edited February 3, 2009 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 very good information guys, thank you! *bookmarked for when I sniper a 1200xl on ebay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If you get a 1200XL, you can expect to have a bad keyboard - which will be a lot more annoying than the crummy video. It can be replaced, or you can fix it yourself with a little work. Another big negative is that the 1200XL isn't common in Europe so all those Atari hackers over there usually don't support it. Using a 1200XL will build up the muscles in your left arm, though, cramming in the cartridges. (it's a teeny bit tight) One nice thing about the 1200XL is that it is all socketed. If it has a problem, you can swap out all the chips easily. (except for the delay line) Sockets also make upgrades a lot easier. Another plus is that the 1200XL uses a standard Atari 9vac power supply. If you want more memory, PBI devices, stereo, and all the rest, you can add them. The architecture is the same as the other XLs. The 1200XL was built to retail for $600+. Some of the later Ataris - about a buck-fifty... Bob thanks for running that down. duly noted. how hard is the video upgrade for the 1200XL and is that the main issue to deal with when I get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 On the keyboard subject, I've learned to repair them using conductive paint/ink. Its not too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The 1200XL was built to retail for $600+. Some of the later Ataris - about a buck-fifty... Yeah. The build quality is awesome.. Some of the best ATARI ever did.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I used to have two 1200XL's but recently traded one to Steve at AtariMax for a bunch of the mods mentioned above. He fixed the lack of 5v on the SIO bus, installed internal Basic and an internal MyIDE on the one I didn't trade. That being said, I still find myself using one of my 800xl's more often due to the smaller foot print. The 1200Xl is a looker, but its pretty big on a small desk. Also, though the feel of the 1200's keyboard is the best of the 8-bit line it gets flaky. I've had to spend an awful lot of time cleaning the contacts over the years and its stored in the original box. Its pretty easy to get back up and running, but it is a concern. Fletch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 are there any games that the 800XL can not run for any reason? I would primarily use any atari 8 bit computer for playing games and it "sounds" like the 800XL does the best job but I'm just wondering if there are any games that it won't run. the other thing I am concerned with is video quality. I have various monitors from a 17" flat screen lcd to a commodore 1701, the latter being the one I use the most due to it's reliability, crisp picture, and small footprint, but I would use the LCD if I could get a good signal to it from an 8bit computer. after I hook up my mac laptop to run IOS2OSX, I will be using an atari 8bit quite often to play games since I won't be tethered to my clunky desktop pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 There are some older 400/800 games that do not run properly on the XL line. Atari released a translator disk that fixes the vast majority of these, but there are some that are not compatible. Ali Baba and Return of Heracles are two games that I have that do not work properly even with the translator. I break out an 800 when I want to play those. By the way, I too use SIO2OSX. It works like a champ. Fletch are there any games that the 800XL can not run for any reason? I would primarily use any atari 8 bit computer for playing games and it "sounds" like the 800XL does the best job but I'm just wondering if there are any games that it won't run. the other thing I am concerned with is video quality. I have various monitors from a 17" flat screen lcd to a commodore 1701, the latter being the one I use the most due to it's reliability, crisp picture, and small footprint, but I would use the LCD if I could get a good signal to it from an 8bit computer. after I hook up my mac laptop to run IOS2OSX, I will be using an atari 8bit quite often to play games since I won't be tethered to my clunky desktop pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 are there any games that the 800XL can not run for any reason? I would primarily use any atari 8 bit computer for playing games and it "sounds" like the 800XL does the best job but I'm just wondering if there are any games that it won't run. the other thing I am concerned with is video quality. I have various monitors from a 17" flat screen lcd to a commodore 1701, the latter being the one I use the most due to it's reliability, crisp picture, and small footprint, but I would use the LCD if I could get a good signal to it from an 8bit computer. after I hook up my mac laptop to run IOS2OSX, I will be using an atari 8bit quite often to play games since I won't be tethered to my clunky desktop pc search for the quick and easy 800xl video upgrade. If you do this and run it on s-video the PQ is awesome. I used to use a 32" Sony CRT which was a fantastic picture. Now I have my own little corner of the world for my Atari stuff and use a 19" LCD tv. Again the PQ is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 @fletch : it had not occurred to me there would be older games that would be incompatible, hmm. I guess there were no games that made use of the expanded memory on the 130xe. I am not yet using ios2osx, I'm waiting on my usb to serial dongle, then all bets are off and I'm going to really make use of my 8bit computers using my laptop. that combined with the catweasel 4+ and the ultra satan on my desktop pc t transfer files back and forth to various floppy formats, I can't wait. @ mimo : thanks dude, I will. is there anyone here who can do a video mod for me for a few duckies or perhaps a trade of something? assuming the mod is beyond me, which it might not be. I should have a look at it I suppose before I go making offers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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