Choose the monster sprites in Pacman4K

[DEBRO]

Hi there,

 

I want to open this up for you guys to choose which monster sprites to use for Pacman4K. I like the current sprites made by Clay but a number of you have expressed interest in the A8/5200 style of monster sprites. Which ever one gets the most votes will be ones used in the final Pacman4K.

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

I like the originals......

Edited February 4, 2009 by iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin

[ZylonBane]

Handy reference chart:

 

 

Personally, the 5200 "Space Invader" ghosts are my least favorite of all time.

[+Nathan Strum]

I kept going back and forth, but I'm leaning towards the A8/5200 ones, because they look cleaner and the direction they're facing reads faster. As static sprites, the more detailed original ones look better, but during actual gameplay the others simply work better.

 

Also, I'd put in a vote for the rounder Pac-Man sprite, as well.

[johnny_boy]

Clay's ghosts look like they have a serious case of melancholia. "Emo ghosts" I would call 'em. Big sad eyes, like in those funny animes, where some crazy big-eyed freak is this close to breaking apart in tears. Don't misunderstand me, I do appreciate the craftsmanship in the artwork, but I personally believe them to be unsuitable for Pac-Man.

 

It's simply not possible to create a faithful Pac-Man ghost on he 2600. Some sort of compromise must be reached, or an artistic re-imagining of the original. These two solutions are popular ones, and so are Nukey's Ms. Hack flickering ghosts. So what will it be: black eyes, square eyes, sorta round eyes, 5200 thin eyes or fanciful but flickery eyes?

 

The 5200 eyes are sharp, flicker-free, show clear definition of their specific feature and evoque a nostalgic association from 5200 Pac-Man. This is why they get my vote.

 

I too prefer the rounder Pac-Man, while we're at it.

[toymailman]

I voted for the A8/5200 sprites, but the rounder ones would be better. Maybe the poll needs to be updated with all three choices?

[DEBRO]

Also, I'd put in a vote for the rounder Pac-Man sprite, as well.

I think I can make that happen.

[espire8]

I don't know what to vote for.

I had already hacked my own version some time ago.

 

Might as well post it here while I'm checking in.

pacman4K_new_gfx_hack.bin

It look similar to Clay's version except that I inverted the eyes somewhat.

 

The pics below documents all my touch-ups in this hack.

 

I re-did the death animation too.

And the pts icon, and the ghost's eyes, and the key and flagship.

Added more colors to the fruits too.

 

I still have yet to locate the maze and dot colors.

The hex color $82 for the maze and $FC for the dots would be spot-on like the arcade - it has a wonderful contrast that make the ghosts and pac-man stand out better.

The darker blue also helps hide the black lines on the walls where the dots are placed -- at least in the mock-up.

 

I even tried to smooth out the corners of the maze to make it less blocky by deleteing some of the lines to give it that hollowed out vector look the coin-op has.

I came soooo close to my mock-up except for the extreme left and right edges. Some lines are shared and can't be altered.

 

Felt really sad about it.

 

[ZylonBane]

If the vote goes to the 5200 ghosts, I'd encourage use of the more rounded variation referenced above.

[DEBRO]

Man, I didn't think I was that bad of an 8-bit artist. Oh well...so I guess I'll leave graphics and sound to the experts

[espire8]

Man, I didn't think I was that bad of an 8-bit artist. Oh well...so I guess I'll leave graphics and sound to the experts

Heh. Thanks, I didn't mean for it to come across like that.

 

I do try to improve what I see possible as an artist; an expert?

I'm a 2d animator. So, yeah, I do have quite an advantage there.

 

There's nothing wrong with your maze though.

I just wanted to see how I can make it look a little closer to the real thing and you were normally trying to save space.

 

I just didn't have the guts to ask your help since making code changes can be a hassle, so I tried hacking it myself and when I were almost there I was disappointed my efforts prevailed not.

 

I should mention the reason I was sad because it took a long time to figure out the maze but came up short for my alteration.

Not sure if you like how it could have looked or if you could implement the rest of it. I'm pretty much stuck.

 

Anyway, it would be nice to see some of my simpler changes make it's way to the final release like the ghost's eyes and pts font and bouns fruit colors.

 

As for the ghosts, if not my own - I'd go for Clay's.

 

Thanks.

[Underball]

I don't know what to vote for.

I had already hacked my own version some time ago.

 

Might as well post it here while I'm checking in.

pacman4K_new_gfx_hack.bin

It look similar to Clay's version except that I inverted the eyes somewhat.

 

The pics below documents all my touch-ups in this hack.

 

I re-did the death animation too.

And the pts icon, and the ghost's eyes, and the key and flagship.

Added more colors to the fruits too.

 

I still have yet to locate the maze and dot colors.

The hex color $82 for the maze and $FC for the dots would be spot-on like the arcade - it has a wonderful contrast that make the ghosts and pac-man stand out better.

The darker blue also helps hide the black lines on the walls where the dots are placed -- at least in the mock-up.

 

I even tried to smooth out the corners of the maze to make it less blocky by deleteing some of the lines to give it that hollowed out vector look the coin-op has.

I came soooo close to my mock-up except for the extreme left and right edges. Some lines are shared and can't be altered.

 

Felt really sad about it.

 

 

 

When they look to the side, they become a cyclops.

 

I think I prefer Clay's.

 

also - was there just not enough space left in that 4k to squeeze the opening music in there? It's kind of strange just being silent, I can't really tell if it's going to start a game, or if it's just starting the attract mode.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Underball

[Ben_Larson]

I like the left/right ones... not sure about the up/down ones though. what about something like this:

[DEBRO]

also - was there just not enough space left in that 4k to squeeze the opening music in there? It's kind of strange just being silent, I can't really tell if it's going to start a game, or if it's just starting the attract mode.

There is a total of 7 ROM bytes left. Not enough room to even do a decent beep The color cycling of the score should dictate the attract mode.

 

I don't know what to vote for.

I still have yet to locate the maze and dot colors.

The hex color $82 for the maze and $FC for the dots would be spot-on like the arcade - it has a wonderful contrast that make the ghosts and pac-man stand out better.

The darker blue also helps hide the black lines on the walls where the dots are placed -- at least in the mock-up.

The darker color of the maze makes it a bit hard to see on my TV. The blue for the monsters is already a bit dark for my TV even though these colors look fine on the emulator.

[Underball]

Just to add more fuel to the fire, here's a subtle but more arcade-accurate take on the ghosts.

pacman4k_test1.bin

Edited February 6, 2009 by Underball

[PacManPlus]

I like the left/right ones... not sure about the up/down ones though. what about something like this:

 

 

I slightly modified them - I like yours a lot, Ben. I just wanted to make one small change:

 

 

 

Bob

[ZylonBane]

I slightly modified them - I like yours a lot, Ben. I just wanted to make one small change:

But then the eyeball shape has to change when the ghosts are looking left and right. Ben's design also. You have to mock up both movement axes with these guys. You can't just do one or the other.

 

As far as the floating-pupil designs go, I think the variations that look diagonally when moving up/down look better than the cross-eyed versions.

[Underball]

I think the variations that look diagonally when moving up/down look better than the cross-eyed versions.

I agree. The cross eyed and zombie stare eyed ones look creepy.

[Ben_Larson]

But then the eyeball shape has to change when the ghosts are looking left and right. Ben's design also. You have to mock up both movement axes with these guys. You can't just do one or the other.

Not sure I follow.

Here's the Larson/PacManPlus (tm ) up/down versions with the original left/right versions on Dennis' screenshot. I think they look ok together.

[ZylonBane]

With that combination, the width of the eyes is changing by a full third anytime a ghost switches from up/down to left/right. Maybe this wouldn't bother most people.

[Nukey Shay]

Not at all...being shifted further left and right makes them even more noticable. Those sprites look great!

 

 

There is a total of 7 ROM bytes left. Not enough room to even do a decent beep

 

By reducing the player's animation to 2 frames (only show fully closed/open mouth), there's your free space for the music data table...which is about 32 bytes to be recognisable. This is what I used in the hacks and it looks perfectly fine. Your 4-frame animation is less noticable already anyway due to the 20hz flicker. Looking through a disassembly of the latest (new) version, there's still some small gainers here and there too. The score gfx could be changed to block numbers to save some space there too (but that looks ugly).

[DEBRO]

By reducing the player's animation to 2 frames (only show fully closed/open mouth), there's your free space for the music data table...which is about 32 bytes to be recognisable. This is what I used in the hacks and it looks perfectly fine. Your 4-frame animation is less noticable already anyway due to the 20hz flicker. Looking through a disassembly of the latest (new) version, there's still some small gainers here and there too. The score gfx could be changed to block numbers to save some space there too (but that looks ugly).

I've since got it to 10 free bytes I said I would stop months ago but I can't help myself.

 

I'll have to try reducing the animation and see how it looks. I can't change the score font. It's that way to match the arcade.

[Nukey Shay]

The block numbers wouldn't look so good anyway. But by reducing the player animation, the LSB selection code is simplified...enough to add the music routine, I'd think (which only needs about a dozen bytes if you imbed it next to other audio routines to reuse the stores). Then all that is needed is to flip a bit on to enable a pause while the music plays. Should be no problem here.

[Devin]

I personally like the 5200 sprites a bit better. The Clay eyes are very artistic, but perhaps too complex for rapid gameplay.

[Nukey Shay]

I disagree...they lack character IMO. They remind me of thumbs with eyes

 

BTW because the lower nybble of PF0 data ($F000-$F035) is still unused, you could use that stretch to hold the frequency values for music That is plenty to make some good harmony with.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Nukey Shay