Buying games new in box. What are the odds of Fraud

[NML32]

I have been buying Atari 2600 and 7800 games on eBay that are new factory sealed from mainly one vendor at what I think to be very good prices. I was just wondering what the odds are that some sellers are selling reproduction boxes and passing them off as the real deal?

 

Has anyone know this to be true.

 

Is there any easy way of telling if they are reproductions without opening the plastic wrap.

[Stan]

A guy by the name of Bronty tackled this issue in the NES scene, not sure if he ever looked at any other systems, but he may know (you can find him on Nintendoage). Unfortunately, yes, it's possible with any system. In fact, awhile ago there were a few sellers that were taking games (I think in some cases even putting dummy games inside) and resealing them to sell for high prices. One I know of actually got in trouble with the FBI for it. Bronty released a guide for determining how seals were actually done so you could spot a fake, but I don't know if he did this for Atari games. Sellers got very sneaky, so without some sort of system it's hard to tell unless there's an original price tag on it as well. This is coming from NES and SMS collecting, however, so I may be totally wrong, I just know of the cheating that went on in the former, so I assume it could happen for Atari games as well.

[NML32]

A guy by the name of Bronty tackled this issue in the NES scene, not sure if he ever looked at any other systems, but he may know (you can find him on Nintendoage). Unfortunately, yes, it's possible with any system. In fact, awhile ago there were a few sellers that were taking games (I think in some cases even putting dummy games inside) and resealing them to sell for high prices. One I know of actually got in trouble with the FBI for it. Bronty released a guide for determining how seals were actually done so you could spot a fake, but I don't know if he did this for Atari games. Sellers got very sneaky, so without some sort of system it's hard to tell unless there's an original price tag on it as well. This is coming from NES and SMS collecting, however, so I may be totally wrong, I just know of the cheating that went on in the former, so I assume it could happen for Atari games as well.

 

One thing that is starting to worry me about this one seller that I forgot to mention in my post is they don't seem to be running out of New Factory Sealed Games. I would think NFSG would be hard to find.

 

Funny you should mention a price sticker. Some of my games that are in a box but not sealed in plastic have a price sticker. I'm trying to remember if Atari 2600 games I bought as a kid has plastic wrap on them.

 

Not sure.

[Mirage]

Some 2600 games had plastic wrap, mostly later ones. Earlier Atari-brand releases (as well as other brands) generally did not.

 

One thing you didn't mention is what price or rarity range you're buying at. If you're talking very rare or expensive games, then sure, it may be feasible to do repros and sell them and make a profit. The likelihood of there being still New Factory Sealed copies of course goes down as rarity goes up. Items like the later releases of common Atari-branded games (think silver label commons like Ms. Pac-Man, Galaxian, Kangaroo, Joust, etc), are still pretty easy to find factory sealed and shrinkwrapped. They aren't worth very much either.

 

In other words, it's very expensive and not easy to pull off a believable fake box. Ask the guys around here who create and sometimes sell the boxes for repros or homebrews. They aren't cheap for a reason... they're not cheap or easy to make, even if you're not trying to fool someone, but just create something that's unique and looks good. Now try to do the same thing, but use accurate-looking inks, printing processes, and dies to cut, score, and fold the boxes... your cost just went up exponentially.

 

So, if you're looking at lower-priced items... they're almost positively real. The more rare or expensive the item, the more you have to start looking with suspicion. Fakes have been made, and they will continue to be made, so it's essential to be cautious and educated before turning your money over.

[stingray2772]

Some 2600 games had plastic wrap, mostly later ones. Earlier Atari-brand releases (as well as other brands) generally did not.

 

One thing you didn't mention is what price or rarity range you're buying at. If you're talking very rare or expensive games, then sure, it may be feasible to do repros and sell them and make a profit. The likelihood of there being still New Factory Sealed copies of course goes down as rarity goes up. Items like the later releases of common Atari-branded games (think silver label commons like Ms. Pac-Man, Galaxian, Kangaroo, Joust, etc), are still pretty easy to find factory sealed and shrinkwrapped. They aren't worth very much either.

 

In other words, it's very expensive and not easy to pull off a believable fake box. Ask the guys around here who create and sometimes sell the boxes for repros or homebrews. They aren't cheap for a reason... they're not cheap or easy to make, even if you're not trying to fool someone, but just create something that's unique and looks good. Now try to do the same thing, but use accurate-looking inks, printing processes, and dies to cut, score, and fold the boxes... your cost just went up exponentially.

 

So, if you're looking at lower-priced items... they're almost positively real. The more rare or expensive the item, the more you have to start looking with suspicion. Fakes have been made, and they will continue to be made, so it's essential to be cautious and educated before turning your money over.

 

Nicely said... I never really thought about it that way.

[NML32]

Some 2600 games had plastic wrap, mostly later ones. Earlier Atari-brand releases (as well as other brands) generally did not.

 

One thing you didn't mention is what price or rarity range you're buying at. If you're talking very rare or expensive games, then sure, it may be feasible to do repros and sell them and make a profit. The likelihood of there being still New Factory Sealed copies of course goes down as rarity goes up. Items like the later releases of common Atari-branded games (think silver label commons like Ms. Pac-Man, Galaxian, Kangaroo, Joust, etc), are still pretty easy to find factory sealed and shrinkwrapped. They aren't worth very much either.

 

In other words, it's very expensive and not easy to pull off a believable fake box. Ask the guys around here who create and sometimes sell the boxes for repros or homebrews. They aren't cheap for a reason... they're not cheap or easy to make, even if you're not trying to fool someone, but just create something that's unique and looks good. Now try to do the same thing, but use accurate-looking inks, printing processes, and dies to cut, score, and fold the boxes... your cost just went up exponentially.

 

So, if you're looking at lower-priced items... they're almost positively real. The more rare or expensive the item, the more you have to start looking with suspicion. Fakes have been made, and they will continue to be made, so it's essential to be cautious and educated before turning your money over.

 

Thanks for your explanation. The games I am buying are not very rare as a matter of fact you mentioned some of the games I bought so far.

Edited February 12, 2009 by NML32

[StoneAgeGamer]

Factory sealed Atari games are not that tough to find, especially common games. Its actually much harder to find factory sealed NES games. I think this is because Atari pumped out too many games. I remember about 15 years ago my local Big Lots had a bunch of brand new Atari 2600 Juniors and tons of factory sealed games for sale. Unfortunately I was only like 12 years old then, if that were today I would have bought their whole stock.

Edited February 12, 2009 by StoneAgeGamer

[atari_envy]

The more you collect, the more you will get a feel for what is a true New in Shrinkwrap (NIS) and what is not as you compare a NIS game to other games NIS from the same company. I don't believe it is very common for people to put fakes games out, but not unusual for a seller to put out an aftermarket shrinkwrap. Here are my observations based on collecting NIS:

 

M-Network games are pretty easy to find NIS. The shrinkwrap has a one-inch overlap seam down the back of the game. Usually there are couple small holes in the wrap as well.

 

Atari redbox games are also pretty easy to find NIS. Look for a seam down the sides and bottom with some shrinkage of the wrap that often compresses the box.

 

Atari silver boxes vary with the game and the year made. 1987 and 1988 games are still pretty common NIS, but the original 1982 and 1983 are a little harder. The 87-88 years have a seam down the side, while the early years have a one inch overlap seam down the back. I really like the 82-83 shrinkwrap as it thick and doesn't shrink causing damage to the box.

 

The Atari colored boxes were not sold by Atari NIS. I realize that there are some out there, but I feel this is aftermarket shrinkwrapping. Maybe it was done by the store that sold it, maybe by someone trying to protect the game box, or possibly by someone hoping to get some more money for the game.

 

Activision didn't start shrinkwrapping till the later years. My guess is Plaque Attack is when the shrinkwrap started, but maybe as early as Keystone Kapers. There are eBay sellers selling copies of shrinkwrapped Pitfall, Chopper Command, Oink, etc (I own them) but I strongly feel, based on the shrinkwrap and my experience, this is aftermarket shrinkwrap added to increase the price. I guess Plaque Attack was the start since I bought it sight-unseen from a seller who didn't even mention that the game was shrinkwrapped. The wrap looks authentic, and it is the earliest game I own from Activision that is authentic NIS.

 

Parker Bros shrinkwrapped their thicker, split boxes, but not their thinner, open-from-the-top games. Again, I own a couple of the PB thin-tops NIS, but I don't believe that to be factory shrinkwrap. PB shrinkwrap is looser than other companies; you can see the shrinkwrap texture, and it has a seam on the top and bottom. There are a couple exceptions, I have bought two Star Wars ESB that are NIS, and the wrap on those is tighter with a stiffer, more plastic feel. It unique to any other wrap, so I feel it is factory authentic.

 

Imagic games can all be purchased NIS. They have seam at the top and bottom.

 

Coleco orange boxes were not shrinkwrapped (pretty sure). I have one in shrinkwrap, but is the international version.

 

Sega did not use shrinkwrap, while EPYX does with a seam on the top and bottom.

 

The SuperCharger games can be found NIS, look for a somewhat sloppy seam on the top and bottom.

 

Look for tell-tale signs like wear on the box, but not on the shrinkwrap. Look for shinkwrap that is different than other NIS games from the same company. There are other tip-offs like the Centipede game I have with a price sticker on the BOX and shrinkwrap over the box (and price sticker). Obviously aftermarket.

[pinball22]

Hey, great info, atari_envy... I wasn't sure about some of those.

 

And I think Mirage is definitely right about the effort being too much to make it worth making a complete fake of most 2600 carts. And the ones that are really valuable enough that you'd make a big profit over the materials cost are rare enough that you could only make a couple before people got suspicious. Reshrinking is more likely to be a problem, as shrinkwrapping is easy/cheap and provides a decent addition to the value of games over ones that are just CIB. Knowing what games should be shrinked and how, and just being observant, is important if you're going to shell out the money to collect sealed.

 

Also, the 2600 collector's market is relatively small -- there just aren't enough people out there buying, or at high enough prices, to really support a huge amount of fraud, I think. Especially when compared to the NES market... sealed commands a ridiculous premium over CIB there, there are a lot more different games that can go for big money, and those games were produced in large enough numbers that a seller having several sealed copies won't necessarily set off the alarm bells -- in the 2600 world, if I suddenly put three sealed Atari BMX Airmasters on eBay, everyone's going to be suspicious, but if I put three sealed NES Donkey Kongs up, not so much.

[Ian Primus]

There is the possibility of fraud in any type of collectable like this. And I agree, there isn't goig to be much point in someone faking a sealed copy of Galaxian - it's just too common. It would be like counterfieting nickels.

 

Of course, while sealed games are neat - you can't really play them if they're still in the package Hence why I collect loose cartridges...

 

-Ian

[Mirage]

Yes, I barely addressed that, but I agree that fake shrinkwrapping is much more common and is more of a concern. It's easier to fake especially to a novice collector, you don't even have to have the real cart inside, and it's far far cheaper to shrinkwrap something, even convincingly, than go through the entire printing and die/cutting/folding process convincingly.

 

Still, use your head, use common sense, and be careful, but not paranoid.

[Philflound]

There are a good number of games that have no end in sight made by Atari. I believe, maybe 40 or so 2600 and 7800 titles combined. O'Shea still has these, as he had purchased 1 million games from Atari when they were closing out. I believe at the time it was around 50 titles total, so I had figured a rough estimate of 25,000 per title, though some were more and some he ran out of. He still has a nice batch and he's asking $5 plus shipping. I purchased between 6-18 copies per title back in the mid-1990s, since you had to buy them in bunches of 6 back then per title. I remember getting almost 600 games total. I still have many left too and undercut him at $4.75 for those still has in stock.

 

I would purchase games from reputable people. Sealed is not necessarily that important as is complete. It's better to know what you're buying. I also bought a close out lot one time from The Wiz with several M Network games and lots of Intellivision, so I know those were legitimate too.

 

Phil

Edited February 19, 2009 by Philflound