Channel F

[ianoid]

An AA member wrote me:

 

How's it going? I saw your post in the Channel F Pac-Man thread, and you mentioned that you're a Channel F fan so I thought I'd ask you some questions, if you don't mind. I'm a big Pac-Man fan and I think it's cool that e5frog was able to port this game (and rather faithfully given the hardware) to the Channel F, so I'm actually thinking of getting a console.

 

However I'd hate to get a system just to play 1 game, I know most people detest its library so I was wondering if you could recommend any Channel F games. I've played a few on MESS and many of them I wasn't impressed by or interested in, but I did enjoy Alien Invasion, Dodge It, Video Whizball, and oddly enough Sonar Search. The games don't hold my interest like 2600 games but I figured in brief spurts they'd be okay.

 

Also I know that the System II is the preferred system to get due to the detachable controllers and audio coming out of the TV, but the System I seems to be more common. How does the System I hold up? I know the audio comes out of the unit...is it really loud? Also, does it sound as good as a System II or will the Pac-Man music sound weird on a System I?

 

I figured that more might be interest in my reply, so I thought I'd make this a public reply with his consent.

 

My feeling is that you would need to be an extreme Pac-man fan to need to play a $100 homebrew on a $50 system. It's a good version, and a great buy for serious Channel F collectors and players, but it's still the Channel F. You won't get better games on Channel F than you would on other systems. But there are some fun ones.

 

The controllers are different, closer to Bally than anything, and pretty fun to play with. I am one of the few people out there to appreciate the system and consider it far more player than competitors like RCA Studio II. But that doesn't mean I think it's for everyone. It's become little more than a historical footnote. A few other games are fun, you mentioned some cool ones. I did enjoy the built in stuff and the games on cart one, like Shooting Gallery. It almost has a timing feel like the NES Track and Field skeet shoot. I think that the ChF version I played as a kid helped me with that NES event. I played a lot of Blackjack as a kid. I also played Space War and Maze as a kid. Most of these titles were done on Atari 2600, sometimes better. It's hard to recommend the system specifically for its games. I also played two player with my brother, which always improves enjoyment.

 

So if you are seriously looking for an authentic and unique retro experience, it's a good system to check out. But that experience comes at a price. If you are looking to play Pac-man on another system, check it out in emulation, because that's a high price to pay just to play another version of the game, homebrewed at that. (Sorry e5frog, I'm a terrible salesman).

 

As far as System one or two, I'd say get a system two. Sound coming out of the unit is fine, it's loud enough, although I believe you can't adjust the sound- can't recall offhand. Better just to get it out of the TV. And a system II doesn't have the dust cover, which is easy to crack or lose. Actually if you just want to play one game, I would say that getting a working system as cheaply as possible is a good idea. Let me point out that the controllers are rather complex inside and fixing them can be a pain, if it's possible at all.

 

I really like the Channel F, although it's certainly not for everyone.

[Ian Primus]

The Channel F is defintely on my "look out for list", and has been for some time. That and the Bally Astrocade. The Channel F is definitely a curiosity, it's even more primitive than the Atari or the Odyssey2, but as a gamer, I would still love to have one. Thanks for the info!

 

-Ian

[Mirage]

I wouldn't have gotten one had I not found it super cheap in a thrift. But, I'm glad I have it. It's an interesting system. VERY retro, both hardware wise and software wise, but also quite a unique experience. From what I've seen, the games don't impress me too much (I have NOT seen the Pac Man homebrew), so to me, it's more of a curiosity than something I'd actually play. I'd only recommend it to the really hardcore. I really do like the controllers though. Crazy interesting design. They really packed a lot of functionality into one controller in a way I've never seen before.

 

EDIT 1: Funny, both Ian and I, typing at the same time, called it a curiosity. It certainly is!

 

EDIT 2: I have the model 1, complete with missing dust cover and all!

Edited February 26, 2009 by Mirage1972

[+Ransom]

The Channel F is decidedly quirky and an artifact of its time. The size of the cartridges, for one. And those controllers that, to our modern sensibilities, seem bizarre, but are actually rather efficient and thoughtfully designed. They didn't become dominant...but then, neither did the Atari-style joystick. It's all about the game pad now, and has been since the NES came out. But I digress.

 

But as others have said, the Channel F isn't the place to go for great gaming experiences. Many of the games are fine -- good, even -- but there's nothing worth buying yourself another mouth to feed, IMO.

 

For the historically-minded, this system is great. For the rest, it doesn't have much to offer.

 

(For the record, I had one for about five years, purchased boxed with all the boxed videocarts at a flea market for $20. It was the first to go in my late-90s console purge.)

[Atari2008]

I first learned of the Channel F in the early 90s. The NES was my first system and it got me interested in other systems. Luckily we still had my older sis's Atari 2600 in the house so that's how I got into retro gaming. One day I found a book of hers on video games by George Sullivan and it briefly mentioned the Channel F and that's how I learned the system existed. I didn't learn too much about it but I thought back then that the name sounded funny.

 

Still it sparked my interest, but it wasn't until recently that I started researching it. Having played the games in MESS, I don't think they're much to write home about although I can see given the time that they were unique, but the system still intrigues me. I think the whole design and look of the console is unique and the controllers as has been mentioned here. So I guess for me my interest in Channel F, which seems to be echoed in this thread, is as a historical document or artifact from that time. I've been a real nerd lately combing the web for any info on the Channel F that I can find, it's interesting and mysterious since there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of data as to how the system came into existence or how they decided to design the controllers the way they did.

 

Does anyone know the dimensions of the system? Since it looks like it would primarily serve as a collectors item, I want to see if I have room on my shelf for it, if I eventually get one.

[maibock]

Funny this came up - Just received a System 2 in the mail from my sis-in-law in Texas..

 

The Channel F was the first home console I played. Was at a family friend's house in the late 70's. I still recall how amazed and excited I was to be playing something on the tv

 

Though, memories like this are meant to stay as fond memories.. Even my 4 year old didn't enjoy the games.. The Battleship clone was horrendous. I'll soon be looking to get rid of this thing.. just not my cup o' tea.. the controls are cool and all, but have no desire to acquire more games for it.

[pinball22]

I don't have a Channel F, but if I ever run into one with some carts in the wild cheap, I'll probably pick it up just to put on a shelf -- I love the way the carts look and the very 70s package art.

[Mirage]

Does anyone know the dimensions of the system? Since it looks like it would primarily serve as a collectors item, I want to see if I have room on my shelf for it, if I eventually get one.

 

It's about 13" wide and 14" deep. Just a touch smaller than an Odyssey 2.

[pinball22]

I just read a fascinating interview on the Vintage Computing and Gaming blog with Jerry Lawson, the creator of the Channel F... everybody should check it out.

 

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/545

[MrRetroGamer]

I was an original owner of both the original Fairchild Channel F and the System II. I had the entire cart library that I saved for many years. Since I was the original owner, it had a special place for me. Back then I thought it was great, but there wasn't alot to compare it to in the beginning. I remember lots of Maze, Torpedo Alley, Robot War, Sonar Search, Dodge-it and Wizball. After adding a few other items like the SABA Chess cart and a Democart, I did finally pass my entire collection on a few years ago. Attached is a photo of what was my collection.

 

If anyone has proof of a box #25 or #26 with full color artwork, please post a picture of it. I do not believe those exist, but who knows.

 

Also, an interesting side note is that on my #19 Checkers cart, there was actually a label under the checkers label on the cart already, and careful examination showed me that it was a Democart label under there!

Edited February 26, 2009 by MrRetroGamer

[grandcross]

I'm also interested in getting a Channel F just for collecting. I'm sure there's at least one or two games that are okay to play, nothing groundbreaking though.

 

So a working system is worth $50 then? I've seen them go for $90+ online (which include the original box and hookups).

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

I just read a fascinating interview on the Vintage Computing and Gaming blog with Jerry Lawson, the creator of the Channel F... everybody should check it out.

 

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/545

 

Thx for the link! I love stories like that!

[+Ransom]

I just read a fascinating interview on the Vintage Computing and Gaming blog with Jerry Lawson, the creator of the Channel F... everybody should check it out.

 

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/545

 

Thanks!

 

(I can't believe the Channel F had 16K of RAM! The Atari 400 had half that, three years later!)

Edited February 26, 2009 by Ransom

[e5frog]

He remembers wrong or he means 16 kbits of RAM - the Video RAM is 2048 bytes (4 x 512 byte circuits) and the CPU has 64 bytes of RAM.

The Video RAM is "write only" (you can't read back what you wrote) and only about 72% of it's area is usable since that's all that is displayed on screen.

 

 

One Pac-Man cartridge takes about 5-7 hours to make, as there's little interest it's not affordable to have the pcb:s made professionally, I'm expecting to sell at most 30 of them...

I do the PCB:s myself, photoresist lighting, etching, drilling, cutting the shape, test circuits before soldering, all soldering, rinsing used cartridge shell from labels and markings, print labels, put plastic on them and cut them with a pair of scissors (and do it all over if I get a crease), personalized back label and extensive testing before I send it along to its new owner... I could probably not afford to buy one of them myself without saving up for it - I actually don't have one myself - yet, maybe I could afford one if I sell enough...

 

 

 

The System I units have really poor sound when playing music - there's a continous background beep. In the game (Football, Pac-Man and others) however it's OK since very little sound effects are used, short bleeps and clicks mostly.

 

 

I'd say get a cheap system (I or II), try some games, some people like it and the others lack the imagination needed to have fun with these old games.

 

 

 

I'll start making Multi-Carts as well eventually, but the Pac-Man version included in the Multi-Cart will lack some features.

This is perhaps more affordable as you get all Channel F games for something around $100-150.

I'll perhaps try and patch "Hangman" as well as the original version of it lacks the ability to add your own words when it is placed into the Multi-Cart (it originally has extra RAM connected to a port that aren't available on the Multi-Cart).

Edited February 26, 2009 by e5frog

[+Ransom]

He remembers wrong or he means 16 kbits of RAM - the Video RAM is 2048 bytes (4 x 512 byte circuits) and the CPU has 64 bytes of RAM.

The Video RAM is "write only" (you can't read back what you wrote) and only about 72% of it's area is usable since that's all that is displayed on screen.

 

That makes more sense. He must have misremembered, because at one point he said it had 4 * 4K chips in it (i.e., 16K) and at another he said it was 16K total. So his mind's playing tricks is all.

 

Thanks for the clarification!

[e5frog]

That makes more sense. He must have misremembered, because at one point he said it had 4 * 4K chips in it (i.e., 16K) and at another he said it was 16K total. So his mind's playing tricks is all.

 

Chips are often measured in bits, and it's correct that it has 4 x 4 kbits ram circuits - it may have been just a misunderstanding between the two of them.

[+Ransom]

That makes more sense. He must have misremembered, because at one point he said it had 4 * 4K chips in it (i.e., 16K) and at another he said it was 16K total. So his mind's playing tricks is all.

 

Chips are often measured in bits, and it's correct that it has 4 x 4 kbits ram circuits - it may have been just a misunderstanding between the two of them.

 

True.

[ianoid]

Let me point out that although many look down upon the software (which I think is no worse than many 2600 titles, although the apex is way below the best 2600 stuff), I would say the controllers are very cool. They are similar to Astrocade controllers, but different. They have basically two button functionality, direction control, and the handle turns left and right. There is no potentiometer type paddle rotation like the Astrocade has.

 

Re: Bally Astrocade vs. Channel F, The Astrocade is definitely better for gaming. The sound on games like Wizard of Wor is statictastic. The Bally is technically superior, so that is to be expected.

 

As far as collecting goes, the Channel F has more superficial appeal. What I mean by that, is the games look really cool on your shelf, whether it's the oversized rainbow numbers or the distinctive edge font. And the systems have better looking packaging too, although the paperboard lid to the ChF System 1 boxes are hard to find in good shape. But they do have great random gamer pix like the 2600 had. I wish I had hard facts as to which of the two (2600 or ChF) hit the market first, as the boxes are clearly derivative of each other. I've heard that the Channel F came out first.

[MrRetroGamer]

Back at that time, the marketing for these systems was designed to show people playing and having fun with them, as you pointed out on the box, and also on the early flyers. Even the early computers a few years later followed this trend.

[Wickeycolumbus]

I got my Channel F system 1 about 6 months ago, boxed for only $5. I had to fix it up a bit, but I am happy with it. Now I need to get some carts for it.

 

I just read a fascinating interview on the Vintage Computing and Gaming blog with Jerry Lawson, the creator of the Channel F... everybody should check it out.

 

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/545

 

Thanks for posting that, its a very good read

[Atari2008]

I'm the member that had posed the original question to ianoid that opened up this thread, and I'm glad that he thought to pose it to the public because the variety of opinions and information has been very helpful. First off, that interview with Jerry Lawson was awesome! It was just the thing I'd been looking for, it was chock full of information on the early days of the system, its design, a glimpse into what Fairchild was like, and the parts about the 1976 CES was really fascinating. I do hope Mr. Lawson writes his book and that it gets published, I'm sure it would be an interesting read.

 

The thing I'm torn about with the Channel F is that as a console and a part of video game history I find it very fascinating but on the other hand when I play the games in MESS, I'm less than impressed. Like I mentioned in the beginning, a handful of titles I find a bit amusing, if I had to pick a favorite it would probably be Alien Invasion, which from what I can tell is a relatively expensiv cart to get today, and again it's just a clone of Space Invaders. I have grown to like the unique look of the system and the 8-track look of the cartridges. I like retro items and the Channel F just seems to scream retro. The deal breaker for me will probably be price.

 

I've mostly only seen boxed units on eBay lately and they've gone for $90 and up. I guess it must have a lot of collector value. I managed to find a place that has one System I for $35 bucks if it works, but of course with shipping it'll probably be close to $45-$50. I'll see, I'll probably give the rest of the library a few runs in MESS.

 

I am a big Pac-Man fan but I do agree that it wouldn't make sense for me to get the system only to play Pac-Man since I have very good versions of Pac-Man for the 7800 and 5200, and Pac-Man is practically on every system. But to me Pac-Man seems to be the best game in the Channel F library, and I think there's something cool about being able to play it on the Channel F and with those funky controllers.

 

I'll keep my eyes peeled and see if I find one dirt cheap. Is eBay the primary place to find one of these?

 

Also, I do love the very 70s look of the Channel F and it's games. Definitely a time piece.

[darthkur]

I just read a fascinating interview on the Vintage Computing and Gaming blog with Jerry Lawson, the creator of the Channel F... everybody should check it out.

 

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/545

 

 

 

I want to thank you as well for posting that link. That was a very interesting story. I had no prior knowledge to 99% of that.

[Numan]

What a great article.

 

I am surprised to see some minor pooh-poohing of Pac man. I bought a Sega Saturn many moons ago because of one game: Panzer Dragoon Saga.

[Atari2008]

What a great article.

 

I am surprised to see some minor pooh-poohing of Pac man. I bought a Sega Saturn many moons ago because of one game: Panzer Dragoon Saga.

 

I think Pac-Man for the Channel F is a cool game, and amazing when one considers the hardware. I'm saving up just in case I get a Channel F and decide to get Pac-Man.

[PsychedelicShaman]

I'll start making Multi-Carts as well eventually, but the Pac-Man version included in the Multi-Cart will lack some features.

This is perhaps more affordable as you get all Channel F games for something around $100-150.

I'll perhaps try and patch "Hangman" as well as the original version of it lacks the ability to add your own words when it is placed into the Multi-Cart (it originally has extra RAM connected to a port that aren't available on the Multi-Cart).

 

I'd buy one for sure!