Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[DimensionX]

To discuss with people who don't want to listen, is a waste of time. If you are about to annoy someone, please do it with some finess.

 

Pictures are worth a thousand words. Please provide a Xenon A8 mock-up or admit that you don't know if would look better on the A8 because you can't prove it.

 

Before i log out.

 

Please, at least read my postings.

 

Back a bit.

[DimensionX]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Atari has much more clear colours then that.

 

Bye for now.

[TMR]

That isn't shades, that is different colours. Please listen.

 

It's two shades of one colour, namely blue. It is therefore shades. The only way i can see of doing an A8 version will not have as much subtlety as that C64 mock-up and you've utterly failed to produce any alternatives that will.

 

And you'll need at least 4 nuances to create something that looks like Xenon.

 

At the moment, that looks far more like Xenon than anything you've shown and is proving you wrong. Mock-up or shut up.

[ceti331]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Atari has much more clear colours then that.

 

Bye for now.

 

if i've understood A8 hardware, it would be restricted to 5 colours for the majority of the image.

the sprites would have to be combined for a detailed player. Otherwise objects would have to be single-color.

so I made this with 1 of the colours as a rainbow background.

 

Admitedly Xenon is a bad game for the A8; a Horizontal Scrolling shooter in the style of armalyte would allow the background effect to represent a propper sky, and add more to the image.

 

TMR's technique of using sprites to add a middle colour to software objects (grey+Other+white) might be able to acheive more.

Edited April 28, 2010 by ceti331

[José Pereira]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

 

Great! Rainbows like

 

I tried Xenon on my "Screen from..." Thread.

From what I'm seeing in your picture you're using Black-Backgr. and 3Grays as PF0,1&2.

Leaving PF3 5th colour Ground Floor. Yeah looks good and get 2Grays as PFs for our Ship (SoftSprite).

 

Yes, now you can probbably prove A8 looking better in the Enemys:

1.)- PM0&1 and PM2&3 for 2Enemys 3colours (in Multicolour Mode)

2.)- Or Each PM Ored correspondant colours (PF2 conflict PF3) but possibble?

 

 

And another problem:

Grays as 3PFs. and how would you get colors in the Plants Level (Xenon1&2 or just in 2? I don't remember...

 

 

 

DimensionX you are like me but try to show, prove!...

 

I always posts screens but I Play them first,, YouTube, Maps, Ripped Sprites frames.

Then I know (I think) and post them.

 

On this time this Guys says yes or no here or there.

 

 

I've learn how the things work on A8 and others...

I still have to start learrning Assembly...

Probably I'm near, very near...

But first I learn how the things work/possibble...

 

 

 

Why don't you start using G2F but if the screen was on a real Game (PMs. left for Players,...)!...

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[DimensionX]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

 

Great! Rainbows like

 

I tried Xenon on my "Screen from..." Thread.

From what I'm seeing in your picture you're using Black-Backgr. and 3Grays as PF0,1&2.

Leaving PF3 5th colour Ground Floor. Yeah looks good and get 2Grays as PFs for our Ship (SoftSprite).

 

Yes, now you can probbably prove A8 looking better in the Enemys:

1.)- PM0&1 and PM2&3 for 2Enemys 3colours (in Multicolour Mode)

2.)- Or Each PM Ored correspondant colours (PF2 conflict PF3) but possibble?

 

 

And another problem:

Grays as 3PFs. and how would you get colors in the Plants Level (Xenon1&2 or just in 2? I don't remember...

 

 

 

DimensionX you are like me but try to show, prove!...

 

I always posts screens but I Play them first,, YouTube, Maps, Ripped Sprites frames.

Then I know (I think) and post them.

 

On this time this Guys says yes or no here or there.

 

 

I've learn how the things work on A8 and others...

I still have to start learrning Assembly...

Probably I'm near, very near...

But first I learn how the things work/possibble...

 

 

 

Why don't you start using G2F but if the screen was on a real Game (PMs. left for Players,...)!...

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

Sorry about that José Pereira, you seems to be a sensible guy and i whish you good luck with your programming. It's not especially fun when there's pointless arguing in a thread like this. I think that you are far better off to continue this discussion then me.

 

Now some words to the other in this thread, this is my last posting here...definitely.

 

It's quite pointless to discuss with people who thinks that "their machine" is the best in the universe and don't want to hear any arguments, for anything. And if you show them screenshots, they are off course either false, irrelevant, or the graphics in them worthless because "their machine" can't do such things.

 

1977 Atari VCS 2600 was released. C64 was released 5 years later, 1982. Atari VCS 2600 had 8 times the palette of C64. Does that say something? No, off course not, C64 is the best "colour computer" in the universe with it's unlimited almost uncountable, endless 16 colour palette where nuances of yellow is a possibility for perhaps the year 2048. Even Spectrum can produce nuances of yellow.

 

@TMR

 

And yes TMR, it's different greys but way to harsch to be called real shades, you can easily see it's different greys where one of them is way to dark because lack of a real palette to choose colours from. Shades is fine nuances of one colour, not rough coloring with different greys.

 

Now, try yellow and you are going to notice how limited the uncountable endless zero space palette on C64 really is.

 

I'm leaving this pointless discussion.

 

At first i wanted the computers to be just different and no computer was the better one. But after todays discussion i see A8 as superior and just feel sorry for C64's useless dwarf palette where shades of yellow is science fiction and where Spectrum easily wins using it's bright command.

 

Colours is not graphics? bull

 

Say that again and load Xenon on C64. And don't forget to skip the level containing gradient yellow...

[TMR]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Because that image has too many colours per scanline for the Atari 8-bit to handle. The top left corner of the highest background structure is impossible (three shades of grey and a rainbow for the background) the enemies are impossible (three greys and a rainbow colour) and the player sprite isn't impossible but at the same time would be significantly harder that way.

Edited April 28, 2010 by TMR

[TMR]

Sorry about that José Pereira, you seems to be a sensible guy and i whish you good luck with your programming. It's not especially fun when there's pointless arguing in a thread like this. I think that you are far better off to continue this discussion then me.

 

Jose is no more a programmer than you are and merely takes C64 graphics (you know, the ones you kept referring to as a "smeary mess", he disagrees with you on that front) and converts them to still images that programmers will then inform him can't actually be converted into a game. The only difference between yourself and him is that he actually puts the effort in to produce mock-ups that won't work, you didn't even get that far.

 

It's quite pointless to discuss with people who thinks that "their machine" is the best in the universe and don't want to hear any arguments, for anything. And if you show them screenshots, they are off course either false, irrelevant, or the graphics in them worthless because "their machine" can't do such things.

 

We're not even talking about C64 versus Atari 8-bit here, it's your claim that the A8 can do a good representation of Xenon and all of us programmers are calling you out. But of course there's not even a mock-up from you to prove it because guess what, you're wrong. You are such a sad fanboy.

 

Once more; mock-up or shut up.

Edited April 28, 2010 by TMR

[TMR]

At first i wanted the computers to be just different and no computer was the better one.

 

This is, of course, a DOWNRIGHT LIE because here's part of your second post to this thread:

 

The hardware in Atari 800 was years ahead of it's time and Atari 800 was by far the most advanced 8bit computer, thanks to Jay Miner. One funny thing is that Jay Miner later built the Amiga, the most advanced 16 bit computer with it's clear colours, 4 channel sound and good hardware support. It was in some way the 16 bit version of Atari 800. Some of the people who created C64 later created the Atari ST.

 

And the winner is...

 

Atari 800 XL

 

You wanted no computer to be better... but declared the Atari 800XL "the winner". What a load of garbage you talk.

[José Pereira]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Atari has much more clear colours then that.

 

Bye for now.

 

 

Yes, it has, but you cannot use them all in a ColourMap C64 style.

If you can then C64 guys cannot argue anything...

 

This Picture, forget the DLI Floor joke, you get 3Grays, Black and 5thColour on the Floor (Blue one)

Where you will put the much more beautifull A8 Pallete?

 

Only on Ships/Fire!

 

 

Here you are also limited...

 

 

ONE:

PM0&1 1Ship, PM2&3 other Ship -> 3colours. One Yellowish other Greenwish (MiraxForce or LastGuardiian Style) but Maxim. two in a Line.

 

You can get 2 beautifull any coolour Ored PMs on A8 but only two by Line or Flicker.

C64 have 8 (12width and A8 10width, possible more when Px overlap area Py) and here you can have advantadges in colour: C64 one different in each and all the same other two colours.

But how will you get more than two in a Line?

 

 

 

 

TWO:

Ored PMs with PFs can work, but probably only in open space (I tried and show that in my Armalyte tries. Thanks TMR for the Underlays idea it could work this way).

But even in Armalyte that at the firstt time seems the least difficult to do on A8 (4colours+5th one added) you're still having many, many restrictions). Read my "Screens from..." Thread...

 

 

If you know how A8 works, how will you get more than 5colours on the Surface and all the Sprites/Fire,... ?

 

 

Ored colours will restrict possible PF and result colours (just try some OR Logical and you'll see what I'm saying...).

 

Amaze me and all A8 lovers! If you're a coder than we need so many Games never got a way into A8...

 

 

I'm A8 and like all here, but I'm A8! This guys usually help me, but if you prove A8 can than I'm on your side!...

Untill than, I waiting for a: "YES, WE CAN!" with resuults/prooves, please!...

 

 

 

Greetings to all.

"Keep the thing UP!..."

José Pereira.

[DimensionX]

At first i wanted the computers to be just different and no computer was the better one.

 

This is, of course, a DOWNRIGHT LIE because here's part of your second post to this thread:

 

The hardware in Atari 800 was years ahead of it's time and Atari 800 was by far the most advanced 8bit computer, thanks to Jay Miner. One funny thing is that Jay Miner later built the Amiga, the most advanced 16 bit computer with it's clear colours, 4 channel sound and good hardware support. It was in some way the 16 bit version of Atari 800. Some of the people who created C64 later created the Atari ST.

 

And the winner is...

 

Atari 800 XL

 

You wanted no computer to be better... but declared the Atari 800XL "the winner". What a load of garbage you talk.

 

Are you sure that you are a programmer?

 

I thought that programmers was quite smart?

 

Help!

 

Can anyone help me?

 

Please TMR, can you read my postings?

 

I have never claimed that A8 is capable of to copy Xenon on Atari ST. But A8 is capable of something that C64 isn't, to display metal material with all it's colours, and that is what Xenon is about, nuances of one colour. Metal green, metal yellow, metal blue, and so on. It worked in Warhawk, why shouldn't it work with different graphics? It's perhaps no "ST Xenon" but it's more Xenon then C64 ever could produce with it's super tiny palette.

 

And this threads topic is about C64 vs Atari, isn't it?

 

And stop quote OLD postings like you did the last time.

 

Read my postings instead of lying like that. Quote the posting i posted 2 days ago instead of choosing real old irrelevant postings.

[DimensionX]

I will quote myself, just to show all of you how TMR lies...

 

At first i belived that Atari was the best computer for graphics. Then i learned several new things and changed my mind. C64 is better om some things, sprite handling for exemple. So i call it a tie. Both are capable computers in their own rights, but on different things. The same thing with ZX Spectrum. At first i thought it was a quite worthless very limited computer. Then i learned more and Spectrum wasn't so bad after all. Some of the demos i have seen were quite impressive and some of the games was even tastful to look at.

 

But you wasn't happy with that, on no, C64 was sooo superior.

 

And that's why i'm outta here...

 

To discuss with fanatics is pointless.

Edited April 28, 2010 by DimensionX

[potatohead]

The guys that programmed YOOMP! likely got a lot of people to think the Atari machines kick some ass. Doing this is likely to get people to think something else.

[PeteD]

This thread has now dipped below my threshold.

 

 

Pete

[José Pereira]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Atari has much more clear colours then that.

 

Bye for now.

 

 

Sorry to argue again but as an A8 one I have a constant battle to get things shown on A8, better or at least the same.

 

The majour, usual problem it's ColourMap on A8.

How will we get this... more than Sprites many of the times.

 

Any one know how to develop an A8 Colour Map?

 

Xenon- Ex.:3Grays, 3Blues(Floor) and 3Yellows(Fire) at least and Black Backgr. colour. This is a simple 3colour 160 2:1 normal 8bit Char mode.

A8 only possibble if you Ored Grays and you can get all possibble colours.

Let's say you use PM2 for Yellows and PM3 for Blues. Not possible, because PMs width not covering Screen width.

 

And only PM0&1 left. Now what you do, use it for your Ship, Enemy(s)?

Use Grays for all Moving Objects? You'll get PF2&PF3 clash?

 

How to?

 

 

 

Yes, how to?

It's why I am still looking/try... I think I can get some games but a Master on A8 to use in all?

Impossile!

 

 

DimensionX you say you're OFF, but I think you're around here (on the "Backs..." ) so, please read this and think.

Stop a little bit to think, if anyone get solutions A8 needs them!...

 

 

 

I'll not to... again.

It's my time to be only on the "Backs...", I think

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[DimensionX]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Atari has much more clear colours then that.

 

Bye for now.

 

 

Sorry to argue again but as an A8 one I have a constant battle to get things shown on A8, better or at least the same.

 

The majour, usual problem it's ColourMap on A8.

How will we get this... more than Sprites many of the times.

 

Any one know how to develop an A8 Colour Map?

 

Xenon- Ex.:3Grays, 3Blues(Floor) and 3Yellows(Fire) at least and Black Backgr. colour. This is a simple 3colour 160 2:1 normal 8bit Char mode.

A8 only possibble if you Ored Grays and you can get all possibble colours.

Let's say you use PM2 for Yellows and PM3 for Blues. Not possible, because PMs width not covering Screen width.

 

And only PM0&1 left. Now what you do, use it for your Ship, Enemy(s)?

Use Grays for all Moving Objects? You'll get PF2&PF3 clash?

 

How to?

 

 

 

Yes, how to?

It's why I am still looking/try... I think I can get some games but a Master on A8 to use in all?

Impossile!

 

 

DimensionX you say you're OFF, but I think you're around here (on the "Backs..." ) so, please read this and think.

Stop a little bit to think, if anyone get solutions A8 needs them!...

 

 

 

I'll not to... again.

It's my time to be only on the "Backs...", I think

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

I will answer just ju Jose.

 

Last Guardian manage to get a descent metal look in all colours including lots of glimmering effects and animated objects, extremly smooth scrolling with lots of sprites on screen at the same time. It's from Tynesoft 1988.

 

You can try it yourself here.

http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-last-guardian-_2922.html

Edited April 28, 2010 by DimensionX

[José Pereira]

I think A8 Xenon would look something like this...

 

Not a chance.

 

Do you know why?

 

Atari has much more clear colours then that.

 

Bye for now.

 

 

Sorry to argue again but as an A8 one I have a constant battle to get things shown on A8, better or at least the same.

 

The majour, usual problem it's ColourMap on A8.

How will we get this... more than Sprites many of the times.

 

Any one know how to develop an A8 Colour Map?

 

Xenon- Ex.:3Grays, 3Blues(Floor) and 3Yellows(Fire) at least and Black Backgr. colour. This is a simple 3colour 160 2:1 normal 8bit Char mode.

A8 only possibble if you Ored Grays and you can get all possibble colours.

Let's say you use PM2 for Yellows and PM3 for Blues. Not possible, because PMs width not covering Screen width.

 

And only PM0&1 left. Now what you do, use it for your Ship, Enemy(s)?

Use Grays for all Moving Objects? You'll get PF2&PF3 clash?

 

How to?

 

 

 

Yes, how to?

It's why I am still looking/try... I think I can get some games but a Master on A8 to use in all?

Impossile!

 

 

DimensionX you say you're OFF, but I think you're around here (on the "Backs..." ) so, please read this and think.

Stop a little bit to think, if anyone get solutions A8 needs them!...

 

 

 

I'll not to... again.

It's my time to be only on the "Backs...", I think

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

I will answer just ju Jose.

 

 

Last Guardian manage to get a descent metal look in all colours including lots of glimmering effects and animated objects, extremly smooth scrolling with lots of sprites on screen at the same time. It's from Tynesoft 1988.

 

You can try it yourself here.

http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-last-guardian-_2922.html

 

 

Yes, Mirax also: Chris Paul Murray Coder (also Henry's, Winter Oympiad88).

This guy and Ivan Mackintosh could really do some amaze things on A8 if the Market/Users want A8.

 

But what you have there it's simple 5colours Antic4 Mode.

Like 3Grays+Ground Floor+Black possible on Xenon. No more colour possible,

 

 

I've said that you can have all different colour Sprites Rainbow on A8 and much better than 1colour different in each and 2the same in all the 8Sprites on C64. But...

Always a but...

One PM0&1 it our Ship and PM2&3 Enemys in Multicolour 3Shades of the same colour.

You will only get 1 Enemy at a time on the same Line.

 

You take a Screen of C64 Uridium and an A8 of Mirax Force. Like that "trap" of the old k7 Screenshots.

A8 it's amazing. No arrguing possible but how will you get more than Enemy in a Line, like in all C64 Shoot'Em'Ups?

That's my and all A8 constant Battle.

 

 

 

Yeah! Also, 5colours (more with DLIs.) and I'll amaze all with an R-Type or other Screen, but...

Always a but:

Again PM0&1 for our Ship

Here PM2&3 for the different Shooting/Weapons AddOn.

 

Beautifull 3Multicolour (like that ones above)

And now, what you have for the Enemys?

NOTHING! No more PMs. left!

 

 

Got it now!...

 

 

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[TMR]

Please TMR, can you read my postings?

 

You said that "At first i wanted the computers to be just different" but "at first" refers not to the posts after you changed your mind but to the first posts you made in this thread, the ones where you tried to declare a victory for the Atari 800XL and therefore the ones i quoted. Yes, you changed your mind after that point but trying to claim that was your stance from the beginning is a downright lie.

 

I have never claimed that A8 is capable of to copy Xenon on Atari ST. But A8 is capable of something that C64 isn't, to display metal material with all it's colours, and that is what Xenon is about, nuances of one colour. Metal green, metal yellow, metal blue, and so on. It worked in Warhawk, why shouldn't it work with different graphics? It's perhaps no "ST Xenon" but it's more Xenon then C64 ever could produce with it's super tiny palette.

 

And i've been repeatedly saying that you cannot use enough colours from the Atari 8-bit palette to get a better representation than the C64 one. It doesn't matter that the C64 version is crap anyway, you have been challenged to mock up an image proving your point and have repeatedly failed utterly to do so so your "point" is unproven and therefore totally null and void and no matter how much you whitter on about colours or offer up irrelevant screenshots that point will still remain totally null and void.

 

And this threads topic is about C64 vs Atari, isn't it?

 

Yes, it's a programming discussion about C64 vs Atari. Not a "which computer has the colours i like more personally" or "which computer is better in some mythical world where what DimensionX thinks it can do is actually possible" discussion, we discuss the practical uses of the hardware rather than fanboy fantasies. You've had Atari coders telling you that what you're saying is wrong, take the hint already.

[TMR]

Last Guardian manage to get a descent metal look in all colours including lots of glimmering effects and animated objects, extremly smooth scrolling with lots of sprites on screen at the same time. It's from Tynesoft 1988.

 

But where's all that "Bitmap style" you thought was so very important a few pages ago then? The answer is that whilst Last Guardian is a reasonably good game (the difficulty is geared a little hard) and makes decent use of the Atari 8-bit hardware, it doesn't go anywheres to proving your point about Xenon in the slightest and is irrelevant because it's not getting as many colours onto the screen as even the existing C64 port of Xenon, let alone my mock-up.

 

Mock-up or shut up.

[DimensionX]

Last Guardian manage to get a descent metal look in all colours including lots of glimmering effects and animated objects, extremly smooth scrolling with lots of sprites on screen at the same time. It's from Tynesoft 1988.

 

But where's all that "Bitmap style" you thought was so very important a few pages ago then? The answer is that whilst Last Guardian is a reasonably good game (the difficulty is geared a little hard) and makes decent use of the Atari 8-bit hardware, it doesn't go anywheres to proving your point about Xenon in the slightest and is irrelevant because it's not getting as many colours onto the screen as even the existing C64 port of Xenon, let alone my mock-up.

 

Mock-up or shut up.

 

You don't understand. It's all about shades. In fact you could turn Xenon into black and white and use only 5 nuances in total and make a much more true version of it then on C64 and Spectrum. But you must have that metal look, something that you can't achieve on C64 and spectrum no matter what you do.

 

The next level you use 5 nuances of green. And the next level 5 nuances of another colour, as long as you keep that orginal metal look on Xenon.

 

Okey, it will be less colours but still look much more "Xenon".

Edited April 28, 2010 by DimensionX

[Garak]

this is my last posting here...definitely.

 

And that's why i'm outta here...

 

[ceti331]

Last Guardian manage to get a descent metal look in all colours including lots of glimmering effects and animated objects, extremly smooth scrolling with lots of sprites on screen at the same time. It's from Tynesoft 1988.

 

You can try it yourself here.

http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-last-guardian-_2922.html

 

thanks for posting this - this is more like the type of game i'm interested in seeing on A8. i might try and download that..

i concur with TMR, unfortunately it doesn't show the ability to match C64 xenon.

reason is: C64 can switch colours for each tile, so it can have shades of blue on one, and shades of grey on the other. A8 can only have one set of shades, and a single 'spare' colour substituted on some tiles.

 

the A8 has more *colours* but the C4 can display more overlapping on the same horizontal zone of the screen, which is very important for movement & varied design of enviornments.

Sure you could have more palette variety on the A8 though, and yes the ability to select different shades of the same hue does give it a 'cleaner' look.

 

Maybe for Xenon it would be better to re-style it as blue-tinted grey for both the tiles & structures, (each level would be a differnt tint).. & use the spare color for enemies or detail ?

 

 

 

It does seem vertical scrolling can make good use of sprite-multiplexing which helps.

Edited April 28, 2010 by ceti331

[José Pereira]

Last Guardian manage to get a descent metal look in all colours including lots of glimmering effects and animated objects, extremly smooth scrolling with lots of sprites on screen at the same time. It's from Tynesoft 1988.

 

But where's all that "Bitmap style" you thought was so very important a few pages ago then? The answer is that whilst Last Guardian is a reasonably good game (the difficulty is geared a little hard) and makes decent use of the Atari 8-bit hardware, it doesn't go anywheres to proving your point about Xenon in the slightest and is irrelevant because it's not getting as many colours onto the screen as even the existing C64 port of Xenon, let alone my mock-up.

 

Mock-up or shut up.

 

You don't understand. It's all about shades. In fact you could turn Xenon into black and white and use only 5 nuances in total and make a much more true version of it then on C64 and Spectrum. But you must have that metal look, something that you can't achieve on C64 and spectrum no matter what you do.

 

The next level you use 5 nuances of green. And the next level 5 nuances of another colour, as long as you keep that orginal metal look on Xenon.

 

Okey, it will be less colours but still look much more "Xenon".

 

 

And now with different Luminances explain us all how will get all the moving Stuffs?

They must be different colours or you didn't ditisgush them.

 

 

And your Ship have to be the same colours for all the Game, how?

 

 

And the Yellowish Fire/Burning/Explosions?

 

 

 

I know some ways of... Do you know?

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

 

"P.s.- TMR I am a ... Didn't you know that? "

[TMR]

You don't understand. It's all about shades. In fact you could turn Xenon into black and white and use only 5 nuances in total

 

Nope, you said about retaining the "Bitmap style" and you'd be breaking that the moment you went to greyscale - the "Bitmap style" in Xenon had three shades of blue, five shades of grey and a yellow on the screenshot i was working from, if you wipe all of that out it's not the "Bitmap style" any more and the appalling C64 version is still a more accurate representation because it at least got some of the colours in.

 

Oh... just for reference, it probably wouldn't be five "nuances" either because that means the background colour would have to be one of them and you can only use four of those "nuances" in a 4x8 pixel character cell - that's assuming that whoever took the programming on felt it was even possible to do in a character-based mode and if they went for a bitmap you're down to four "nuances".

 

Okey, it will be less colours but still look much more "Xenon".

 

No, it'll look like a half-arsed monochrome version of Xenon and the C64 will still look closer to the "Bitmap style".

 

[TMR]

I know some ways of... Do you know?

 

i've actually got a reasonably good idea of how to handle Xenon on the A8 (although i'm not sure it's viable for an actual game, some of the CPU overhead looks quite painful in theory) but DimensionX really won't like it because i'm not using the "nuances" he holds so dear.

 

"P.s.- TMR I am a ... Didn't you know that? "

 

Jose, you're a right pain in the arse matey... but when one of the programmers here tells you that something won't work, you understand what they're saying and go back to try again. =-)