Colossus Chess 4.1

[devwebcl]

I'm looking for a Colossus Chess 4.1 original version.

Anybody knows where may I buy it?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

--Devwebcl

[www.atarimania.com]

There is no such thing as an original of Colossus Chess 4.1, the program is just a hack...

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[devwebcl]

OH, I didn't know that . Good to know

Therefore Colossus 4.0 would be the correct question.... sorry

[www.atarimania.com]

Then eBay would be your best bet.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[devwebcl]

Despite my mistake, I've been playing with both version (3 & 4) and I can't perceive a big different between them.

I suppose the biggest difference is the interface of the game that for those years was something incredible (change pieces, 3D, 100% of the chess rules implemented).

 

--Devwebcl

[deathtrappomegranate]

OH, I didn't know that . Good to know

Therefore Colossus 4.0 would be the correct question.... sorry

Then eBay would be your best bet.--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

As Frog says, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=110367553918.

 

However, don't buy it if you intend to play chess against it. It plays a terrible game. That is a great deal for a software collector, though.

[devwebcl]

Thanks for the link.

 

My first priority is for collection issues, however I'd like to make it play against another engine from Atari and new one's to see How good is even is from the 80s and run over an 8-bit machine.

 

I think Colossus Chess is not that bad, anyway I'm a really bad player, but it's the feedback I've received from other players.

 

for example at 2600 forum someone made play video chess against mac chess. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...c=11002&hl=

[deathtrappomegranate]

It would be fun to see an 8-bit computer chess tournament!

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

I think the biggest difference between Col. 3 and Col. 4 is the 2D vs. 3D appearance. Afaik, Col. 3 has only the 2D appearance, while Col. 4 can have 2D or 3D appearance... another difference is the "power" of these chess programs, afaik Col. 3 has 450 ELO, while Col. 4 (thanks to the 3D) has only 400 ELO - which means nothing (or extremely poor) compared to nowadays computer chess programs...

 

-----

 

On the other hand, I have just bought (Atari) Chess (cart.), Parker Chess (cart.), Sargon 2 (disk), Sargon 3 (disk), Col. 3 Chess (tape, with disk backup), Col. 4 Chess (disk) and Master Chess (tape with disk backup). Then there is the PD program SuperQuerg Chess (in ML) and last not least the type-in listing "Chess" by John Krause (?) which appeared in Compute! magazine and is looking quite similar to Parker Chess (except that it is in Atari Basic, assumes you make only legal moves since it does not check for illegal ones, etc.).

 

My collection is missing Chessmaster 2000 (will have it soon, no problem), Sargon 1 (disk or cart, rare), Mychess 2 (disk or tape also rare), Micro-Chess (tape, very rare!) and Chess 7.0 (disk, rare) by Odesta. If anyone has one of the rare chess games for sale, contact me please ! There are also two modem-based chess programs, written in Atari Basic, they are Modem Chess and Tele Chess, since I do not have a modem, I would need someone who changes these games in such a way, they can be played without one...

 

Well, Roby-Chess (another type-in listing, from Happy Computer magazine afaik) does not count, since it is not a full chess program (think it had only 6x6 fields and a few figures), as well as other "chess problem" solving programs, like Hexapawn, Knight Play, Queen 8 / 8 Queens problem, Knight move, Knight battle or the "chess negation" programs (where one is forced to beat a figure in every move, except the first few), like Negation of Querg and Killer Chess. I also do not count the "chess similar" programs like Shogun, Laser Chess, ...

 

I am not only collecting these games, I play them from time to time ! Besides, the manual for Col. 4 stated that it is/was the best chess program of the time and it has beaten every other program then. They had always played 16 rounds with the BBC version of Col. 4 against various other chess programs on various computer systems. Since I only have an Atari 8Bit, I am planning to do a chess tournament on my two Ataris with all the various chess programs I have for the A8 and see which one comes out as the best... but this will take quite a while, since I have to do a minimum of 10 games/tests of each program against the others... but I already know for sure, Col. 4 won`t be the worst of them (maybe Atari Chess or Master Chess or Chess by Mr. Krause, who knows)...

 

-Andreas Koch.

[devwebcl]

Well,

I think the biggest difference between Col. 3 and Col. 4 is the 2D vs. 3D appearance. Afaik, Col. 3 has only the 2D appearance, while Col. 4 can have 2D or 3D appearance... another difference is the "power" of these chess programs, afaik Col. 3 has 450 ELO, while Col. 4 (thanks to the 3D) has only 400 ELO - which means nothing (or extremely poor) compared to nowadays computer chess programs...

Thanks for the information, very helpful for the project to make a a8 tournament. (and not only between a8 engines, but I want to consider some classical like GNU Chess).

On the other hand, I have just bought (Atari) Chess (cart.), .....

 

-Andreas Koch.

Incredible collection, congrats!

You missed First Chess

 

btw, with Sargon III I got that the book couldn't be opened, Is there another disk with the book?

[deathtrappomegranate]

Since I only have an Atari 8Bit, I am planning to do a chess tournament on my two Ataris with all the various chess programs I have for the A8 and see which one comes out as the best... but this will take quite a while, since I have to do a minimum of 10 games/tests of each program against the others... but I already know for sure, Col. 4 won`t be the worst of them (maybe Atari Chess or Master Chess or Chess by Mr. Krause, who knows)...

It would be interesting to see the results of such a competition.

 

In the thread that devwebcl linked to in post #7, I posted an extract from the manual of Colossus Chess 4, in which the publishers quoted their own comparisons. Unfortunately, only two of the programs were run on A8 machines. An all-A8 tournament would be a better test of the programming, and I would be interested to see the results.

 

It will be a challenge to set the same conditions for each program, though, since they are all written slightly differently, and don't necessarily have the same options available in terms of time-per-move, total time for x moves, and so on.

[www.atarimania.com]

My collection is missing Chessmaster 2000 (will have it soon, no problem), Sargon 1 (disk or cart, rare), Mychess 2 (disk or tape also rare), Micro-Chess (tape, very rare!) and Chess 7.0 (disk, rare) by Odesta. If anyone has one of the rare chess games for sale, contact me please ! There are also two modem-based chess programs, written in Atari Basic, they are Modem Chess and Tele Chess, since I do not have a modem, I would need someone who changes these games in such a way, they can be played without one...

Actually, the original Sargon wasn't released for the Atari and Mychess II was only sold on disk. BTW, the download we have for the latter also includes the library disk missing from all the other cracks floating out there.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[devwebcl]

Finally I have made to play Colossus Chess 4.0 and GNU Chess 5.07. Well, as expected GNU won, however the game it looks that Colossus tried to do something.

 

The final idea still is to make a tournament between Colossus Chess 3 & 4, Sargon 3, Chessmaster 2000 and any other Atari 8 bit chess which has the PLY's in text mode.

 

GNU Chess (white) / Atari Colossus Chess 4. 0 (Black)

 

1. e2e4 / e7e5

2. g1f3 / g8f6

3. b1c3 / f8b4

4. a2a3 / b4c3

5. d2c3 / d7d6

6. c1g5 / e8g8

7. f1e2 / b8c6

8. d1d3 / c8g4

9. e1c1 / a8c8

10. h2h3 / g4h5

11. d3e3 / h5f3

12. e3f3 / a7a5

13. h3h4 / d8e7

14. h1h3 / f8d8

15. h4h5 / h7h6

16. g5f6 / e7f6

17. f3f6 / g7f6

18. h3f3 / g8g7

19. d1d3 / d8e8

20. f3f5 / e8e7

21. d3g3 / g7h7

22. f5f6 / c8d8

23. e2c4 / d8f8

24. f6f5 / h7h8

25. g3g6 / f7g6

26. f5f8 / h8h7

27. h5g6 / h7g6

28. c1d2 / g6g7

29. f8g8 / g7f6

30. g8h8 / f6g7

31. h8a8 / g7f6

32. c4d5 / e7g7

33. g2g3 / a5a4

34. d2e3 / h6h5

35. a8a4 / b7b5

36. a4a8 / c6e7

37. a8f8 / f6g5

38. d5f7 / h5h4

39. g3h4 / g5h4

40. f7e8 / c7c6

41. f8h8 / h4g5

42. h8h5 / g5g4

43. h5h6 / g7g8

44. e8d7 / g4g5

45. h6e6 / g8g7

46. e6d6 / g7g6

47. d6g6 / g5g6

48. f2f4 / e5f4

49. e3f4 / g6f6

50. e4e5 / f6f7

51. f4e3 / f7g6

52. e3d4 / g6g5

53. d4c5 / g5f4

54. c5d6 / e7f5

55. d7f5 / f4f5

56. e5e6 / f5f6

57. e6e7 / c6c5

58. e7e8q / b5b4

59. e8e6 / f6g5

60. d6e5 / b4a3

61. e6f5 / g5h4

62. e5f4 / a3b2

63. f5-g4+

--Devwebcl

[deathtrappomegranate]

Interesting.

 

What were the settings for the programs (eg how long per move, etc)?

 

Colossus found decent moves more often than I would have expected.

[devwebcl]

Interesting.

 

What were the settings for the programs (eg how long per move, etc)?

 

Colossus found decent moves more often than I would have expected.

For both programs time was 210 seconds (this was because I need time to input the moves into the emulator - slow process, perhaps in my other computer should be faster).

 

The hardware for GNU Chess is:

Hardware: Mobile AMD Sempron Processor 3000+ 1794 MHz with 1.152 MB Memory

Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600).

 

When I finished the other interface (I thinking to play it against Colossus Chess 3.0) I'll show some new results.

[devwebcl]

Finally I made to play Colossus Chess 3 against 4 and the last one won without any doubts 9.5 - 0.5

 

Tournament resume and PGN file at: http://manillismo.blogspot.com/2009/04/col...tournament.html

[devwebcl]

I was able to get Colossus Chess 4.0 tape version. I guess it's the same one at atarimania.

Anybody may dump the disk version? both sides, because the manual mentions the second side brings games and problems.

 

Cheers,

 

--Devwebcl

[Marius]

Was reading this topic again. @CharlieChaplin is there a reference about the ELO? I am a moderate strong chess player (my ELO varies from 1600-1800) and I am surprised how accurate colossus chess plays on Atari 8bit. It is absolutely not easy to win.

 

The program is the weakest in the middle and end game, but as a player you absolutely need to get there first. If you do not survive the opening, then you'll probably lose the game. 

 

I was wondering what the approximate ELO is. You wrote 400-450 but I am in doubt. That ELO means really beginner.

[zbyti]

Colossus Chess 4.1 is only hack.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti

[zbyti]

I managed to exploit funny weakens of Colossus Chess 4.0  below my old game with CC4, I played on my own, no any computer aid was used :]

 

[zbyti]

Colossus Chess 4.0 Vs Mephisto III-S Glasgow - one of my old tests games, Mephisto won.

 

Mephisto L3, CC 4.0 30s per move.

 

I estimate:

 

Mephisto III-S Glasgow 1700+ ELO

Colossus 4.0 1600+ ELO

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti

[zbyti]

https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Mephisto_III-S_Glasgow google translate (to English) works well for me

 

Mephisto III-S Glasgow runs on Motorola 68000 12 MHz

Quote

In connection with the target specification, another problem had to be solved. - The choice of programming language. Assembler programming was out of the question, because our target specifications contain in particular the demand for a lot of chess knowledge, which can only be solved in an adequate time with an adapted high-level language. PASCAL, preferred by us in other areas, was ruled out , in addition inefficient executable programs are created (factor 5-6 compared to assembler), as well as "non-languages" like BASIC, FORTRAN etc. In a small specialist newspaper article we came across CDL2 , the came very close to our demands:

 

Efficiency - only a factor of 1.5-2.0 slower than assembler.

 

Machine ELO list https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Wiki-Elo-Liste in comparison Colossus Chess 4.0 on A8 looks very well :]

chess computer ratings 1993.txt

 

 

One more interesting site I use https://www.chessprogramming.org/Colossus_Chess

Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti
another list

[devwebcl]

5 hours ago, zbyti said:

Colossus Chess 4.1 is only hack.

 

 

It is a fixed version. 4.0 has a bug that is described at atarimania.

[zbyti]

@devwebcl what kind of bug? http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-colossus-chess-41_1137.html ? I played many hours with CC4 and don't spot any.

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/142225-colossus-chess-41/?do=findComment&comment=1722746

Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti

[devwebcl]

http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-colossus-chess-40_6701.html

 

Quote

 

rave.N - 06/12/2015

 

Colossus v4.0 has a catastrophic bug, in which it can lock up endlessly (most likely while the computer AI is thinking to move), v4.1 fixes this by changing just 2 bytes, the only instance of $D0 $FE changed into $EA $EA to make v4.1 which was patched, not recompiled. And, the text for "4.0" changed into "4.1", text is only seen by pressing the Spacebar (plus, seen on a loading screen for this cassette version).