devwebcl Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I'm looking for a Colossus Chess 4.1 original version. Anybody knows where may I buy it? Thanks in advance. --Devwebcl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 There is no such thing as an original of Colossus Chess 4.1, the program is just a hack... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 OH, I didn't know that . Good to know Therefore Colossus 4.0 would be the correct question.... sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Then eBay would be your best bet. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Despite my mistake, I've been playing with both version (3 & 4) and I can't perceive a big different between them. I suppose the biggest difference is the interface of the game that for those years was something incredible (change pieces, 3D, 100% of the chess rules implemented). --Devwebcl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 OH, I didn't know that . Good to know Therefore Colossus 4.0 would be the correct question.... sorry Then eBay would be your best bet.--Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com As Frog says, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=110367553918. However, don't buy it if you intend to play chess against it. It plays a terrible game. That is a great deal for a software collector, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 Thanks for the link. My first priority is for collection issues, however I'd like to make it play against another engine from Atari and new one's to see How good is even is from the 80s and run over an 8-bit machine. I think Colossus Chess is not that bad, anyway I'm a really bad player, but it's the feedback I've received from other players. for example at 2600 forum someone made play video chess against mac chess. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...c=11002&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It would be fun to see an 8-bit computer chess tournament! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Well, I think the biggest difference between Col. 3 and Col. 4 is the 2D vs. 3D appearance. Afaik, Col. 3 has only the 2D appearance, while Col. 4 can have 2D or 3D appearance... another difference is the "power" of these chess programs, afaik Col. 3 has 450 ELO, while Col. 4 (thanks to the 3D) has only 400 ELO - which means nothing (or extremely poor) compared to nowadays computer chess programs... ----- On the other hand, I have just bought (Atari) Chess (cart.), Parker Chess (cart.), Sargon 2 (disk), Sargon 3 (disk), Col. 3 Chess (tape, with disk backup), Col. 4 Chess (disk) and Master Chess (tape with disk backup). Then there is the PD program SuperQuerg Chess (in ML) and last not least the type-in listing "Chess" by John Krause (?) which appeared in Compute! magazine and is looking quite similar to Parker Chess (except that it is in Atari Basic, assumes you make only legal moves since it does not check for illegal ones, etc.). My collection is missing Chessmaster 2000 (will have it soon, no problem), Sargon 1 (disk or cart, rare), Mychess 2 (disk or tape also rare), Micro-Chess (tape, very rare!) and Chess 7.0 (disk, rare) by Odesta. If anyone has one of the rare chess games for sale, contact me please ! There are also two modem-based chess programs, written in Atari Basic, they are Modem Chess and Tele Chess, since I do not have a modem, I would need someone who changes these games in such a way, they can be played without one... Well, Roby-Chess (another type-in listing, from Happy Computer magazine afaik) does not count, since it is not a full chess program (think it had only 6x6 fields and a few figures), as well as other "chess problem" solving programs, like Hexapawn, Knight Play, Queen 8 / 8 Queens problem, Knight move, Knight battle or the "chess negation" programs (where one is forced to beat a figure in every move, except the first few), like Negation of Querg and Killer Chess. I also do not count the "chess similar" programs like Shogun, Laser Chess, ... I am not only collecting these games, I play them from time to time ! Besides, the manual for Col. 4 stated that it is/was the best chess program of the time and it has beaten every other program then. They had always played 16 rounds with the BBC version of Col. 4 against various other chess programs on various computer systems. Since I only have an Atari 8Bit, I am planning to do a chess tournament on my two Ataris with all the various chess programs I have for the A8 and see which one comes out as the best... but this will take quite a while, since I have to do a minimum of 10 games/tests of each program against the others... but I already know for sure, Col. 4 won`t be the worst of them (maybe Atari Chess or Master Chess or Chess by Mr. Krause, who knows)... -Andreas Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 Well,I think the biggest difference between Col. 3 and Col. 4 is the 2D vs. 3D appearance. Afaik, Col. 3 has only the 2D appearance, while Col. 4 can have 2D or 3D appearance... another difference is the "power" of these chess programs, afaik Col. 3 has 450 ELO, while Col. 4 (thanks to the 3D) has only 400 ELO - which means nothing (or extremely poor) compared to nowadays computer chess programs... Thanks for the information, very helpful for the project to make a a8 tournament. (and not only between a8 engines, but I want to consider some classical like GNU Chess). On the other hand, I have just bought (Atari) Chess (cart.), ..... -Andreas Koch. Incredible collection, congrats! You missed First Chess btw, with Sargon III I got that the book couldn't be opened, Is there another disk with the book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Since I only have an Atari 8Bit, I am planning to do a chess tournament on my two Ataris with all the various chess programs I have for the A8 and see which one comes out as the best... but this will take quite a while, since I have to do a minimum of 10 games/tests of each program against the others... but I already know for sure, Col. 4 won`t be the worst of them (maybe Atari Chess or Master Chess or Chess by Mr. Krause, who knows)... It would be interesting to see the results of such a competition. In the thread that devwebcl linked to in post #7, I posted an extract from the manual of Colossus Chess 4, in which the publishers quoted their own comparisons. Unfortunately, only two of the programs were run on A8 machines. An all-A8 tournament would be a better test of the programming, and I would be interested to see the results. It will be a challenge to set the same conditions for each program, though, since they are all written slightly differently, and don't necessarily have the same options available in terms of time-per-move, total time for x moves, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 My collection is missing Chessmaster 2000 (will have it soon, no problem), Sargon 1 (disk or cart, rare), Mychess 2 (disk or tape also rare), Micro-Chess (tape, very rare!) and Chess 7.0 (disk, rare) by Odesta. If anyone has one of the rare chess games for sale, contact me please ! There are also two modem-based chess programs, written in Atari Basic, they are Modem Chess and Tele Chess, since I do not have a modem, I would need someone who changes these games in such a way, they can be played without one... Actually, the original Sargon wasn't released for the Atari and Mychess II was only sold on disk. BTW, the download we have for the latter also includes the library disk missing from all the other cracks floating out there. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Finally I have made to play Colossus Chess 4.0 and GNU Chess 5.07. Well, as expected GNU won, however the game it looks that Colossus tried to do something. The final idea still is to make a tournament between Colossus Chess 3 & 4, Sargon 3, Chessmaster 2000 and any other Atari 8 bit chess which has the PLY's in text mode. GNU Chess (white) / Atari Colossus Chess 4. 0 (Black) 1. e2e4 / e7e5 2. g1f3 / g8f6 3. b1c3 / f8b4 4. a2a3 / b4c3 5. d2c3 / d7d6 6. c1g5 / e8g8 7. f1e2 / b8c6 8. d1d3 / c8g4 9. e1c1 / a8c8 10. h2h3 / g4h5 11. d3e3 / h5f3 12. e3f3 / a7a5 13. h3h4 / d8e7 14. h1h3 / f8d8 15. h4h5 / h7h6 16. g5f6 / e7f6 17. f3f6 / g7f6 18. h3f3 / g8g7 19. d1d3 / d8e8 20. f3f5 / e8e7 21. d3g3 / g7h7 22. f5f6 / c8d8 23. e2c4 / d8f8 24. f6f5 / h7h8 25. g3g6 / f7g6 26. f5f8 / h8h7 27. h5g6 / h7g6 28. c1d2 / g6g7 29. f8g8 / g7f6 30. g8h8 / f6g7 31. h8a8 / g7f6 32. c4d5 / e7g7 33. g2g3 / a5a4 34. d2e3 / h6h5 35. a8a4 / b7b5 36. a4a8 / c6e7 37. a8f8 / f6g5 38. d5f7 / h5h4 39. g3h4 / g5h4 40. f7e8 / c7c6 41. f8h8 / h4g5 42. h8h5 / g5g4 43. h5h6 / g7g8 44. e8d7 / g4g5 45. h6e6 / g8g7 46. e6d6 / g7g6 47. d6g6 / g5g6 48. f2f4 / e5f4 49. e3f4 / g6f6 50. e4e5 / f6f7 51. f4e3 / f7g6 52. e3d4 / g6g5 53. d4c5 / g5f4 54. c5d6 / e7f5 55. d7f5 / f4f5 56. e5e6 / f5f6 57. e6e7 / c6c5 58. e7e8q / b5b4 59. e8e6 / f6g5 60. d6e5 / b4a3 61. e6f5 / g5h4 62. e5f4 / a3b2 63. f5-g4+ --Devwebcl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Interesting. What were the settings for the programs (eg how long per move, etc)? Colossus found decent moves more often than I would have expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Interesting. What were the settings for the programs (eg how long per move, etc)? Colossus found decent moves more often than I would have expected. For both programs time was 210 seconds (this was because I need time to input the moves into the emulator - slow process, perhaps in my other computer should be faster). The hardware for GNU Chess is: Hardware: Mobile AMD Sempron Processor 3000+ 1794 MHz with 1.152 MB Memory Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600). When I finished the other interface (I thinking to play it against Colossus Chess 3.0) I'll show some new results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Finally I made to play Colossus Chess 3 against 4 and the last one won without any doubts 9.5 - 0.5 Tournament resume and PGN file at: http://manillismo.blogspot.com/2009/04/col...tournament.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 I was able to get Colossus Chess 4.0 tape version. I guess it's the same one at atarimania. Anybody may dump the disk version? both sides, because the manual mentions the second side brings games and problems. Cheers, --Devwebcl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Was reading this topic again. @CharlieChaplin is there a reference about the ELO? I am a moderate strong chess player (my ELO varies from 1600-1800) and I am surprised how accurate colossus chess plays on Atari 8bit. It is absolutely not easy to win. The program is the weakest in the middle and end game, but as a player you absolutely need to get there first. If you do not survive the opening, then you'll probably lose the game. I was wondering what the approximate ELO is. You wrote 400-450 but I am in doubt. That ELO means really beginner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) Colossus Chess 4.1 is only hack. Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 I managed to exploit funny weakens of Colossus Chess 4.0 below my old game with CC4, I played on my own, no any computer aid was used :] Zbyti_vs_CC4_R-for_turniejowa_60-1h-x2.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) Colossus Chess 4.0 Vs Mephisto III-S Glasgow - one of my old tests games, Mephisto won. Mephisto L3, CC 4.0 30s per move. I estimate: Mephisto III-S Glasgow 1700+ ELO Colossus 4.0 1600+ ELO R2-CC4(30s)_vs_Glasgow(L3).mp4.mp4 Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Mephisto_III-S_Glasgow google translate (to English) works well for me Mephisto III-S Glasgow runs on Motorola 68000 12 MHz Quote In connection with the target specification, another problem had to be solved. - The choice of programming language. Assembler programming was out of the question, because our target specifications contain in particular the demand for a lot of chess knowledge, which can only be solved in an adequate time with an adapted high-level language. PASCAL, preferred by us in other areas, was ruled out , in addition inefficient executable programs are created (factor 5-6 compared to assembler), as well as "non-languages" like BASIC, FORTRAN etc. In a small specialist newspaper article we came across CDL2 , the came very close to our demands: Efficiency - only a factor of 1.5-2.0 slower than assembler. Machine ELO list https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Wiki-Elo-Liste in comparison Colossus Chess 4.0 on A8 looks very well :] chess computer ratings 1993.txt One more interesting site I use https://www.chessprogramming.org/Colossus_Chess Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti another list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 5 hours ago, zbyti said: Colossus Chess 4.1 is only hack. It is a fixed version. 4.0 has a bug that is described at atarimania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) @devwebcl what kind of bug? http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-colossus-chess-41_1137.html ? I played many hours with CC4 and don't spot any. https://atariage.com/forums/topic/142225-colossus-chess-41/?do=findComment&comment=1722746 Edited September 12, 2021 by zbyti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devwebcl Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-colossus-chess-40_6701.html Quote rave.N - 06/12/2015 Colossus v4.0 has a catastrophic bug, in which it can lock up endlessly (most likely while the computer AI is thinking to move), v4.1 fixes this by changing just 2 bytes, the only instance of $D0 $FE changed into $EA $EA to make v4.1 which was patched, not recompiled. And, the text for "4.0" changed into "4.1", text is only seen by pressing the Spacebar (plus, seen on a loading screen for this cassette version). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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