Time to Commit Forum Suicide! - My Interpretation of Sales Figures

[DaytonaUSA]

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/19/japanese...istent-edition/

 

I'll keep this short and to the point. My opinion after looking at the Wii's consistently poor sales (in comparison to what they used to be over their competition) is that they aren't playing the game right.

 

They want to be in the same market as the iPod/iPhone. Basically, the "hip and "in"" product line. The thing is, the iPhone and iPod change like clockwork, every year. Sure the old models are updated and work just as well as the new ones, but there's always a new version to buy every year.

 

It's a learning lesson, but they better learn fast. If the Wii is to appeal to these people for 4-5 years straight, they need to make new colors or upgrade the system (memory, ect) every year, or at least every other year. You are playing to the "fashion" world of electronics! And no one in the fashion world will wear something 3 years old. Period. Apple realizes this, and I think Nintendo doesn't.

 

Products like the iPhone have been stealing their thunder as the newer "must buy" device. Wii is old news (look at Google top articles.. the amount of Wii articles on the top ten every week have pretty much vanished). This is what happens when you don't play to the traditional gaming crowd.

 

If sales of titles like Wii Music have anything to say, it's that the people who would play those titles, are leaving the scene. I'm curious to see how well Wii Sports Resort does, because honestly, I don't think it will do nearly as well, and I simply think it's a little too a little too late.

 

 

When the 360 is only 3 thousand units below you, and the PS3 has consistently beaten you out in your native country, it's time to do something. These guys don't understand the market they put themselves in, and it's very concerning. I love Nintendo, they basically introduced me to gaming back when I was a kid, but I think they need to wake up if they want to continue this way of marketing.

[Kripto]

Oh yes, poor Nintendo. With only 13 billion dollars in cash reserves, whatever will they do?

 

Actually, due to legally-mandated disclosures, it's been revealed that Nintendo has spent over $700 million on R&D for the follow-up to the Wii, whatever form that takes. So no, they are certainly not standing still.

[DaytonaUSA]

Oh yes, poor Nintendo. With only 13 billion dollars in cash reserves, whatever will they do?

 

Actually, due to legally-mandated disclosures, it's been revealed that Nintendo has spent over $700 million on R&D for the follow-up to the Wii, whatever form that takes. So no, they are certainly not standing still.

 

 

Never said they were poor , or not planning for their next console. All I'm saying is that in the trendy market, releasing one system every 4-5 years isn't, well... trendy. And the popularity of the Wii with the non-gamer crowd is being taken over by newer devices. It's not "omg this is amazing" cool anymore to wave around a stick and pretend your playing tennis. And considering that most Wii owners didn't purchase much more than the basic Wii Sports bundle and the Wii Fit game, without constant hardware revisions like Apple, there's not much making flaky costumers take a continued interest in the Wii.

Edited April 20, 2009 by DaytonaUSA

[Atarifever]

This gets better all the time. "Core" gamers keep on and keep on acting like the Wii is some exception to the long ordered universe of gaming. It is not. This is just the first time the internet has been so developed during one of the big change overs.

 

You'd have seen similar assessments done and arguments against the NES from C64 and Atari 8 bit users were the internet this developed in 1986. You could kind of see it from Sega fans when Sony started to take off. There's a big shift in who is buying games and what they like to play. This has happened before. Nintendo hasn't "entered" the "cool new product upgrade heavy division of the market" held by Apple. That's silly. Consoles own that market. Consoles have always been in that market. Even uber successful products like the PS1, PS2, and NES saw their replacements on the market after only five or six years. That was for basically uncontested products that held the market in an iron grip. The market you're arguing they have hit is the market consoles invented.

 

These arguments get sillier all the time. The Wii is not an exception. It is not unique. It is a console that upgrades some technology from the consoles before it and tries to make people want to buy it until they are distracted by the next shiny thing. It is exactly the same as the NES, SNES, PS1, Genesis, Neo-Geo, 360, PS3, etc.

 

This generation started in 2005. The Wii launched in 2006. It is 2009, and the Wii hasn't seen a significant price drop. What are you expecting? That sales of a game console will be front page news for more than three years? It's an electronic toy.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Atarifever

[Reaperman]

yeah, some new skus could probably push them back into the sweet spot of 'can't find on shelves.' I think a new accessory or a very minor redesign. Even hit the popular wiimote with some superficial ergonomic upgrade.

 

They could probably shake a few 'on the fencers' into their camp by packing their system with other stuff like the competition does, but if they kicked the 'repeat buyer' cycle off, (and it worked) there's much more in it for them. How are people taking the new DSi? might be a bit soon after that... but for the holidays shipping out wiis in a pretty new case, with a handful of added features, and a (slightly) redesigned controller and they could have another year as *THE* number 1 hot thing.

 

I am noticing a lack of colors/special editions/sku variations etc with wii. Nintendo's handling it a bit more 'old school' than recent systems in that way. By now I would have at least expected something like 'retro edition' packed with a preloaded memory card, snes controller attachment (or arcade attachment) and new case color scheme.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Reaperman

[Cybergoth]

They want to be in the same market as the iPod/iPhone. Basically, the "hip and "in"" product line. The thing is, the iPhone and iPod change like clockwork, every year.

 

Year 2 saw the Balance Board (=> http://www.wiibalanceboardgames.com/wii-bo...ames-list.aspx)

Year 3 sees WM+

Year 4 will see...

[Rev]

nintendo better deliver on the next home console,in terms of graghics.

[Reaperman]

Year 3 sees WM+

oh there is a controller upgrade then. Google's ust finished telling me all about it. 1:1 control is a damn nice thing. (serious golf sim maybe)

and the balance board is way less lame than the power pad was.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Reaperman

[moycon]

All Nintendo has to do is re-lease a new Power Glove to be back on top.

 

[Atarifever]

nintendo better deliver on the next home console,in terms of graghics.

Why? This is what I don't get. They have sold more Wii's than they did N64s or Gamecubes. They already have matched the Gamecube's library (1 Zelda and one on the way, Super Smash Bros, Mario, Mario Kart, Donkey Konga, Metroid Prime, etc). They have made billions of dollars. Why "must" they do anything? If your new product outsells your old product by a large margin, and offers a similar service and a huge profit margin, why would you "have" to do the bidding of some posters on the internet? Sony delivered on graphics, and how's that doing for their bottom line? The Gamecube delivered on graphics, and how'd that go? Computers totally deliver on graphics, and how big is the high end computer market compared to the console market? What you are saying makes less sense that what the OP said.

 

And that is only if I try to make sense of "better deliver on graphics." I'm sorry, but perhaps you forgot to turn your TV to "video?" Because apparently your Wii isn't displaying anything. If it isn't the TV, you should contact Nintendo. I don't know how you're putting up with it. If my console came with no graphics, I'd be pretty angry.

 

So in short, assuming your console is working, you think Nintendo should go back to focusing on graphics first, so they can go back to third place or die completely instead of doing what they did and making billions of dollars and moving toward selling more systems this generation than in their last two combined? Yeah, perhaps then they can include a case of SARS with each DS to really blow the market wide open.

 

Now, it dawns on me that perhaps I have misread you. Perhaps all you meant was "Nintendo must include HD next generation." Because to that the answer is "obviously." Nintendo adopts the next big technology (outside of whatever one they introduce) a generation later, when it is cheaper and others have done the work figuring it out. Xbox made online the norm, Nintendo got around to it this generation. Sega and Sony made CD the norm, and Nintendo moved to discs the next generation. That's how they roll. There'll be blue ray and HD on the next Nintendo console almost certainly.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Atarifever

[16-bit]

...

When the 360 is only 3 thousand units below you, and the PS3 has consistently beaten you out in your native country, it's time to do something. These guys don't understand the market they put themselves in, and it's very concerning. I love Nintendo, they basically introduced me to gaming back when I was a kid, but I think they need to wake up if they want to continue this way of marketing.

 

Where are u getting that figure from? The Wii has been outselling the PS3 in Japan for a while. Granted PS3 outsold Wii last month, but that's the first time in almost 16 months! Which was probably due in part to Resident evil 5.

 

I don't think they're directly trying to compete with Apple either. Those are two different target markets. Just the same as the difference between Wii and 360/PS3 gaming targets.

 

On another note, Nintendo sold 435,000 DSi's during its first week, and total Nintendo system sales accounted for almost 60% of US sales last month.

 

All in all, I'd say Nintendo seems to be doing just fine.

[DaytonaUSA]

...

When the 360 is only 3 thousand units below you, and the PS3 has consistently beaten you out in your native country, it's time to do something. These guys don't understand the market they put themselves in, and it's very concerning. I love Nintendo, they basically introduced me to gaming back when I was a kid, but I think they need to wake up if they want to continue this way of marketing.

 

Where are u getting that figure from? The Wii has been outselling the PS3 in Japan for a while. Granted PS3 outsold Wii last month, but that's the first time in almost 16 months! Which was probably due in part to Resident evil 5.

 

I don't think they're directly trying to compete with Apple either. Those are two different target markets. Just the same as the difference between Wii and 360/PS3 gaming targets.

 

On another note, Nintendo sold 435,000 DSi's during its first week, and total Nintendo system sales accounted for almost 60% of US sales last month.

 

All in all, I'd say Nintendo seems to be doing just fine.

 

 

Look at the Japanese sales charts. The PS3 has outsold the Wii many times. I don't have links (I don't store this stuff ), I just read them when they come in from Joystiq.

 

As far as competing with Apple.. no, they're not.. and I never really said that. While the iPhone isn't in direct competition with the Wii, it is in the same catagory as far as "hip" device. The Wii gained it's popularity with the general public, just like the iPhone, because it's the cool "it" product to have. Instead of keeping interest alive though with hardware refreshes ect, like their DS line, they've kept it the same. Just like I said before, in that market, not the video game market, but in the popularity/fashion (which is pretty much what owning some of those products boils down to, bragging rights) industry, you need to keep things new. No one will want something that's old, if you're trying to appeal to non-gamers.

 

Good for the DSi. Never said it was selling badly, just said it was outsold by the PSP in it's homeland. For me honestly, that's a shock and says a lot.

 

 

 

Atarifever: I could come up with defenses to your rants, but it's simply more amusing seeing you get your panties into a bunch. Ahhhh, but you know we're cool .

 

IN SHORT, no, I don't want them to go back to graphics graphics graphics. Where do you people keep getting this crap... read what I'm saying! If they did that, YES they would have died out this gen. No questions asked. I'm just saying if they want to be like Apple and focus on that demographic, they need to keep things fresh and consistantly create demand by making people want to rebuy, rebuy, rebuy. It works for the DS and the ipod/iphone line, I don't see what's so hard to understand about this? They want the Wii to appeal to the same group as those devices, yet they don't treat it the same and honestly, I think that's a problem. Again, again, again... kids who want the next "in" thing, don't want a 3-4 year old box that fails to impress their friends. If there is no "new version" to buy, things like Wii Sports goes from being "hey look at this, it's so cool", to " eh.. I've see it, what else do you have?".

 

On a side note, it is kinda funny to be treated like a Nintendo hater. Sad, I make one suggestion to how they could be more profitable and stay on top, and all of a sudden I'm burning an upside down Nintendo flag screaming foul.

Edited April 20, 2009 by DaytonaUSA

[Atarifever]

0we're cool .

 

IN SHORT, no, I don't want them to go back to graphics graphics graphics. Where do you people keep getting this crap... read what I'm saying! If they did that, YES they would have died out this gen. No questions asked. I'm just saying if they want to be like Apple and focus on that demographic, they need to keep things fresh and consistantly create demand by making people want to rebuy, rebuy, rebuy. It works for the DS and the ipod/iphone line, I don't see what's so hard to understand about this? They want the Wii to appeal to the same group as those devices, yet they don't treat it the same and honestly, I think that's a problem. Again, again, again... kids who want the next "in" thing, don't want a 3-4 year old box that fails to impress their friends. If there is no "new version" to buy, things like Wii Sports goes from being "hey look at this, it's so cool", to " eh.. I've see it, what else do you have?".

 

On a side note, it is kinda funny to be treated like a Nintendo hater. Sad, I make one suggestion to how they could be more profitable and stay on top, and all of a sudden I'm burning an upside down Nintendo flag screaming foul.

First of all, Nintendo hater has no bearing on my argument with you. I like the 360 more than the Wii, and my recent posting habits make it pretty clear how happy I am with my new 360. I'm treating you like a logic hater. Again, the Wii isn't in Apple's market. If anything, Apple is in a market developed by consoles and computers. The 360 and ipods are directed at the same crowd too. Technogeeks and bandwagon jumpers who like tech. It just so happens that with the growth in home computing, the internet, and the affordability of electronic tech like cell phones, that market is now the main consumer market generally. You're mistaking Apple for the creator of a market that has existed since the first batch of one-upsmanship in Pong devices.

[Jess Ragan]

I have a feeling that the Japanese video game industry is in for stormy weather. Sales have been consistently dropping across the board over the last few weeks and Japanese game designers have been complaining for over a year that they can't compete with their American counterparts. It might not be a full-on crash, but the salad days of the 1990s are over for Japan.

[DaytonaUSA]

0we're cool .

 

IN SHORT, no, I don't want them to go back to graphics graphics graphics. Where do you people keep getting this crap... read what I'm saying! If they did that, YES they would have died out this gen. No questions asked. I'm just saying if they want to be like Apple and focus on that demographic, they need to keep things fresh and consistantly create demand by making people want to rebuy, rebuy, rebuy. It works for the DS and the ipod/iphone line, I don't see what's so hard to understand about this? They want the Wii to appeal to the same group as those devices, yet they don't treat it the same and honestly, I think that's a problem. Again, again, again... kids who want the next "in" thing, don't want a 3-4 year old box that fails to impress their friends. If there is no "new version" to buy, things like Wii Sports goes from being "hey look at this, it's so cool", to " eh.. I've see it, what else do you have?".

 

On a side note, it is kinda funny to be treated like a Nintendo hater. Sad, I make one suggestion to how they could be more profitable and stay on top, and all of a sudden I'm burning an upside down Nintendo flag screaming foul.

First of all, Nintendo hater has no bearing on my argument with you. I like the 360 more than the Wii, and my recent posting habits make it pretty clear how happy I am with my new 360. I'm treating you like a logic hater. Again, the Wii isn't in Apple's market. If anything, Apple is in a market developed by consoles and computers. The 360 and ipods are directed at the same crowd too. Technogeeks and bandwagon jumpers who like tech. It just so happens that with the growth in home computing, the internet, and the affordability of electronic tech like cell phones, that market is now the main consumer market generally. You're mistaking Apple for the creator of a market that has existed since the first batch of one-upsmanship in Pong devices.

 

Apple didn't create any market, and I never said it did. However, the iPhone, iPod, and in my argument, the Wii, are NOT in the same market as the 360. Yes, there are some gamers who have/had all those (myself included), but the MAIN DEMOGRAPHIC they are trying to reach with an iPhone/iPod or Wii is NOT the same as the 360. Again, not to say it doesn't include some people who are "technogeeks", but the Wii's whole premise is designed around the same people who would buy an iPhone, NOT a 360.

 

Same goes with the 360. There are non gamers out there I'm sure that bought a 360 because they wanted to be a "me too" and have one. But that's not representing the MAJORITY of the 360's demographic.

 

 

So my point... again... is that products, "in" products, like the Wii and iPhone are totally different than the standard video game console and should be treated differently in marketing. Where the iPhone is succeeding, in my personal opinion, I feel the Wii is staggering. They need to create more consumer interest and the best way to do that is by following the iPhone/DS's path.

 

So please. Listen to what I'm trying to say. I'm making everything quite clear.

[moycon]

t might not be a full-on crash, but the salad days of the 1990s are over for Japan.

 

That's what I was noticing, Everyone USED to say Japan decided the video game market, I say that's not the case and hasn't been for awhile. Whoever supports the market the most controls it. Americans now spend considerably more on video games then Japan even when figuring in the population numbers in relation to the sales.

[16-bit]

OK, here's what I'm talking about. Just because Joystiq, says that PS3 outsold Wii last month, doesn't mean it's kicking butt. It's only outsold Wii 3 times in Japan, and only ONCE here in America and it's still topping both US and Japnaese markets on a fairly regular basis even though the margin has slimmed.

 

Sales Chart

 

For the record, PS3 is also trailing the 360 in both markets...

 

 

 

Here's some more sales data for you:

 

From FT.com (Financial Times)

PS3 outstrips Wii in Japanese sales

 

By Robin Harding in Tokyo

 

Published: April 6 2009 13:17 | Last updated: April 6 2009 13:17

Nintendo’s all-conquering Wii games console is showing its first signs of weakness with Japanese sales last month falling below those of Sony’s PlayStation 3.

 

According to data released Monday by the games research group Enterbrain, Sony sold 146,948 PS3s in the five weeks to March 29 compared with 99,335 sales of the Wii.

...

Nintendo’s Wii, with its innovative motion-sensitive controller, has dominated the current generation of video game hardware since its release in 2006.

...

The Wii outsold the PS3 by nearly three to one in the larger US market in February, selling 750,000 units, according to NPD the research company.

...

Cumulative Wii sales in Japan of almost 8m still exceed PS3 sales of about 3m machines.

 

----------------------

 

 

I still have to argue that I think you have your demographics confused. Wii/DS is marketed to a much broader age range than Iphone/Macs. It's never been a "ME TOO", it's more of "Everyone can play".

Edited April 20, 2009 by 16-bit

[Atarifever]

So please. Listen to what I'm trying to say. I'm making everything quite clear.

 

And you're still quite wrong. You're comparing an MP3 player with about a dozen redesigns and price points, to a console still at its original design, and I believe about its launch price point. You're making the unsupported case that a console that is behaving exactly like a console, and as a result is in first place in its market, is behaving poorly as an MP3 player. Please tell me you still think that makes sense somehow. Console sales slow between big releases and price drops. MP3 sales slow between iterations of new technology. If the Wii were an MP3 player, it would be dead now, because it would not have changed in 3 years. Were it a console, which it is, it would see slow downs, which it would soon counteract with another big game or a price drop. It is behaving just like consoles do, and you are taking that as proof somehow that it is, in fact, not in the console market.

 

It's like if you argued that the 2007 Pontiac G5 isn't selling in 2009 like it did in 2007, thus, the 2007 G5 is, in fact, in the housing market not the car market. The proof? It is not selling, due to it not being a roomy enough house. It makes absolutely zero sense no matter how clearly you state it. It isn't slowing because it's not in the console market. It is slowing because it is in the console market, and that market sees slowdowns.

 

Your thesis is that because the Wii was the "hot item" for three years, then it is somehow less of a console, despite successful consoles often being "the hot item." In case you aren't old enough to remember, for a few years, the NES was "the hot item." The 2600 was too. Somehow you think the Wii is the first console to do this, which it is most certainly not.

[STICH666]

It almost seems as if Nintendo is trying to market the Wii as a just a toy. Lack of DVD playback and a hard drive, gimmicky peripherals (Wii Fit) and the "your mom and dad can play too" type advertising = just one expensive toy. I love the Wii. It has so many great first party titles and a few excellent 3rd party titles. Then again so did the Dreamcast and look how that ended up. Booming sales in the beginning then just commercial failure as the newer more capable systems with many more features were just around the corner. The main difference is that the Wii sold a full 30 million more units most likely due to it's "toy" status.

[Atarifever]

It almost seems as if Nintendo is trying to market the Wii as a just a toy. Lack of DVD playback and a hard drive, gimmicky peripherals (Wii Fit) and the "your mom and dad can play too" type advertising = just one expensive toy. I love the Wii. It has so many great first party titles and a few excellent 3rd party titles. Then again so did the Dreamcast and look how that ended up. Booming sales in the beginning then just commercial failure as the newer more capable systems with many more features were just around the corner. The main difference is that the Wii sold a full 30 million more units most likely due to it's "toy" status.

Your Mom and Dad can play makes it a toy? Yeah, I know that Easy Bake Oven mainly made it's money selling to Fathers. Mothers and Fathers playing it (especially stuff like Wii Fit) without their kids makes it less of a toy (using the defintion of toy you seem to be using). Can we just rename this topic "Bizarro World." Adults playing something makes it a toy, and selling like a consoles makes something not a console. Yeah.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Atarifever

[BydoEmpire]

And considering that most Wii owners didn't purchase much more than the basic Wii Sports bundle and the Wii Fit game

Last time I checked (early this year, late last year?) the Wii's software attach rate was ahead of the ps3 and not that far behind the 360.

[homerwannabee]

Give it up people. Sony lost this round of console wars. It gets irritating when people bring out Japan sales figures. Big freaking whoop ti doo!!! Japan buys about 2 and half times fewer consoles than America. The Wii is the king of all consoles this go around. Perhaps Sony will get a bit of humility and insight the next go around and come storming back, but for now the PS3 is a huge failure, while the Wii is a huge success. Maybe next time.

[shadow460]

t might not be a full-on crash, but the salad days of the 1990s are over for Japan.

 

That's what I was noticing, Everyone USED to say Japan decided the video game market, I say that's not the case and hasn't been for awhile. Whoever supports the market the most controls it. Americans now spend considerably more on video games then Japan even when figuring in the population numbers in relation to the sales.

 

Think about it, though, where did video games start out?

 

Like it or not, though, you gotta hand it to Nintendo for this generation of stuff. Not that I use their products as much, but this time around "video games" are definitely synonymous with "Wii" and "DS".

[godslabrat]

I have a feeling that the Japanese video game industry is in for stormy weather. Sales have been consistently dropping across the board over the last few weeks and Japanese game designers have been complaining for over a year that they can't compete with their American counterparts. It might not be a full-on crash, but the salad days of the 1990s are over for Japan.

 

Assuming for the moment you're right, I really think it's due to the market being way too large. Yes, I want to see competition between the major players, but three consoles, two portables, plus the PC, plus the iPhone is just too much. We're seeing a lot of redundant development and a lot of good stuff is getting swallowed in the the sea of shovelware.

 

I don't think we'll head for a crash, but this industry does have plenty of fat that could be trimmed.

[16-bit]

It almost seems as if Nintendo is trying to market the Wii as a just a toy. Lack of DVD playback and a hard drive, gimmicky peripherals (Wii Fit) and the "your mom and dad can play too" type advertising = just one expensive toy. I love the Wii. It has so many great first party titles and a few excellent 3rd party titles. Then again so did the Dreamcast and look how that ended up. Booming sales in the beginning then just commercial failure as the newer more capable systems with many more features were just around the corner. The main difference is that the Wii sold a full 30 million more units most likely due to it's "toy" status.

 

 

It's not marketed as a toy though. Nintendo sells the Wii as a fun console, that's easy to play. It's main goal is to get people together to play (friends/family), hence the "WE". It's supposed to appeal to people of all ages and genders. If you look up some of the interviews Satoru Iwata, he states that. They designed the Wii and its controller to be simple, and intuitive. Something that anyone can pick up and have an easy time playing.

 

Peripherals like the Wii Fit appeal to a large part of their consumer base. People who usually don't play video games and aren't used using a standard controller can play game using a completely different interface.

 

As much as I love the Dreamcast, you can't compare it the Wii to it either. Wii has had a great start and has continued to sell. It continues to top sales charts even in direct competition with more powerful gaming systems. Whereas Dreamcast flatlined shortly after its first year. Not just due to PS2, but poor marketing and troubles within Sega itself.